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Author Topic: NY 17/"I-86"  (Read 113030 times)

dzheng35

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #550 on: March 31, 2022, 09:49:32 AM »

^ Given itís New York, and highways such as I-495 on Long Island are still subject to outdated 55 mph limits, Iím going to guess no.

I think if/when it's ever completed, and more importantly, signed as I-86, the limit will be raised to 65 mph along the whole route. For a would-be interstate route, it's too rural to leave at 55 mph, even relative to egregious 55 mph zones on Long Island, etc.

Why wait? Just raise it now. No one drives 55.
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kalvado

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #551 on: March 31, 2022, 10:41:06 AM »

^ Given itís New York, and highways such as I-495 on Long Island are still subject to outdated 55 mph limits, Iím going to guess no.

I think if/when it's ever completed, and more importantly, signed as I-86, the limit will be raised to 65 mph along the whole route. For a would-be interstate route, it's too rural to leave at 55 mph, even relative to egregious 55 mph zones on Long Island, etc.

Why wait? Just raise it now. No one drives 55.
And did you even think about kids localities fiscally depending on fines?!
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webny99

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #552 on: March 31, 2022, 11:21:44 AM »

^ Given itís New York, and highways such as I-495 on Long Island are still subject to outdated 55 mph limits, Iím going to guess no.

I think if/when it's ever completed, and more importantly, signed as I-86, the limit will be raised to 65 mph along the whole route. For a would-be interstate route, it's too rural to leave at 55 mph, even relative to egregious 55 mph zones on Long Island, etc.

Why wait? Just raise it now. No one drives 55.

Most of the 55 mph section could be raised now, but Hale Eddy would have to remain at 55 mph as NY currently does not post anything higher than 55 on non-freeways.
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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #553 on: March 31, 2022, 03:06:59 PM »

^ Given itís New York, and highways such as I-495 on Long Island are still subject to outdated 55 mph limits, Iím going to guess no.

I think if/when it's ever completed, and more importantly, signed as I-86, the limit will be raised to 65 mph along the whole route. For a would-be interstate route, it's too rural to leave at 55 mph, even relative to egregious 55 mph zones on Long Island, etc.

Why wait? Just raise it now. No one drives 55.
And did you even think about kids localities fiscally depending on fines?!
Think of the children!
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cl94

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #554 on: March 31, 2022, 09:07:47 PM »

I've been off the forum for a while, so addressing a few things that popped up...

Re: the CJ mention, he has said that NY 17 is no longer on anything designated I-86, at least in Regions 5 and 6. I'd believe him on that. This is also why signs have been slowly disappearing west of Waverly- it's no longer 17 and NYSDOT is doing everything possible to make signs refer solely to I-86. From my own observations, there are very few 17 shields left in Regions 5 and 6. NY 15 was truncated as well and the signs along the former 86/390 overlaps are disappearing with sign replacements.

Re: the Delaware County 55 section, that is strictly enforced in my experience, to the point where I'm hesitant to go much above 60. Only good place in Delaware County to run speed traps on a remotely busy road, so...
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dzheng35

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #555 on: April 01, 2022, 12:24:30 AM »

I've been off the forum for a while, so addressing a few things that popped up...

Re: the CJ mention, he has said that NY 17 is no longer on anything designated I-86, at least in Regions 5 and 6. I'd believe him on that. This is also why signs have been slowly disappearing west of Waverly- it's no longer 17 and NYSDOT is doing everything possible to make signs refer solely to I-86. From my own observations, there are very few 17 shields left in Regions 5 and 6. NY 15 was truncated as well and the signs along the former 86/390 overlaps are disappearing with sign replacements.

Re: the Delaware County 55 section, that is strictly enforced in my experience, to the point where I'm hesitant to go much above 60. Only good place in Delaware County to run speed traps on a remotely busy road, so...

How much leeway do they give from your experience? If theyíre strict than Iíd argue with them about it because thereís no way it canít be signed higher besides hale eddy and I think DOT needs to do it now. Not after I-86. Like I said 55 is just way too low and whoís going to drive 55 again like I said before.
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empirestate

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #556 on: April 01, 2022, 09:46:45 AM »

How much leeway do they give from your experience? If theyíre strict than Iíd argue with them about it because thereís no way it canít be signed higher besides hale eddy and I think DOT needs to do it now. Not after I-86. Like I said 55 is just way too low and whoís going to drive 55 again like I said before.

I actually do go right at the speed limit sometimes when I want to clear out the traffic behind me. But that's not likely to come up on this part of 17 (works better on, say, the Merritt Parkway). :D
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dzheng35

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #557 on: April 02, 2022, 01:19:36 PM »

I've been thinking, do the steep grades between exits 111 and 115 get an exemption due to it being so mountainous and that there would be too much property takings and other work to shallow out the grade.

Also, are the covered I-86 shields in Orange County still there today, or have they been taken down?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2022, 12:21:29 AM by dzheng35 »
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deg2800

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #558 on: June 01, 2022, 09:39:59 PM »

Also, are the covered I-86 shields in Orange County still there today, or have they been taken down?

Yes and no. I live in the area and since the reconstruction between 17K and I-84, there has always been a weird mix of covered and uncovered signs. Some signs that were originally covered have had their covers fall off, like this one on 17 WB just before Exit 120:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4536058,-74.3730032,3a,75y,335.09h,90.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skHS_DJ7WpIwymsgxJE9lug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


Some time around around 2015, new 2 mile, 1 mile, 1/2 mile Exit BGSs were put up on I-84 for former exit 4W, now 19B. All of them have always had uncovered I-86 shields, like this one on I-84 WB one mile from the exit:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4600187,-74.3487441,3a,75y,229.78h,98.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siQuvgOGUatslU6IVe-Drng!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


Exits 116, 118, and 119 have had uncovered I-86 shields since the reconstruction:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.55225,-74.422911,3a,75y,293.27h,87.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBlICO0GAGcVh7Vpo42C5Gg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5206221,-74.4137232,3a,75y,245.34h,87.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1su9jPuR067wCn1lMbyZ24yw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4959894,-74.4003478,3a,75y,230.1h,84.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sv_gd3xuqYJ4OgZjONLiX9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


On Route 211, all of the I-86 shields are still covered, except the junction signs, which, unlike every other exit in the area, are side-by-side, seen here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4624415,-74.3749916,3a,75y,233.48h,80.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLxCcaAct7F_NSa6PUQ8z5w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


And finally, after phase 1 of the exit 122 reconstruction, I-86 shields were included in the new sign emplacements along East Main St / Crystal Run Road, like this one:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.445426,-74.3610063,3a,75y,347.61h,85.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6pxvbg6xNxQY3IeQ6FHSaw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

As an aside, I'm not looking forward to the construction of the proposed widening project. But, as someone who uses 17 through this area nearly every day, I can definitely tell you I'm looking forward to the finished product. Some days, around PM rush hour especially, there's so much traffic.
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abqtraveler

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #559 on: June 01, 2022, 10:39:21 PM »

Also, are the covered I-86 shields in Orange County still there today, or have they been taken down?

Yes and no. I live in the area and since the reconstruction between 17K and I-84, there has always been a weird mix of covered and uncovered signs. Some signs that were originally covered have had their covers fall off, like this one on 17 WB just before Exit 120:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4536058,-74.3730032,3a,75y,335.09h,90.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skHS_DJ7WpIwymsgxJE9lug!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


Some time around around 2015, new 2 mile, 1 mile, 1/2 mile Exit BGSs were put up on I-84 for former exit 4W, now 19B. All of them have always had uncovered I-86 shields, like this one on I-84 WB one mile from the exit:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4600187,-74.3487441,3a,75y,229.78h,98.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siQuvgOGUatslU6IVe-Drng!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


Exits 116, 118, and 119 have had uncovered I-86 shields since the reconstruction:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.55225,-74.422911,3a,75y,293.27h,87.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBlICO0GAGcVh7Vpo42C5Gg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5206221,-74.4137232,3a,75y,245.34h,87.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1su9jPuR067wCn1lMbyZ24yw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4959894,-74.4003478,3a,75y,230.1h,84.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sv_gd3xuqYJ4OgZjONLiX9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


On Route 211, all of the I-86 shields are still covered, except the junction signs, which, unlike every other exit in the area, are side-by-side, seen here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4624415,-74.3749916,3a,75y,233.48h,80.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLxCcaAct7F_NSa6PUQ8z5w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


And finally, after phase 1 of the exit 122 reconstruction, I-86 shields were included in the new sign emplacements along East Main St / Crystal Run Road, like this one:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.445426,-74.3610063,3a,75y,347.61h,85.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6pxvbg6xNxQY3IeQ6FHSaw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

As an aside, I'm not looking forward to the construction of the proposed widening project. But, as someone who uses 17 through this area nearly every day, I can definitely tell you I'm looking forward to the finished product. Some days, around PM rush hour especially, there's so much traffic.
AFAIK, the FHWA has not yet given NYSDOT the green light to sign the Middletown section of Route 17 as I-86. Signs should be covered, but it looks like some of the covers have fallen off, or they forgot to cover them.
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roadman65

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #560 on: June 01, 2022, 11:24:13 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/LULDhsAfcWZWdCpTA
https://goo.gl/maps/uDMPA843PJYb2u3V7
Well Crystal Run is uncovered too. In two locations.
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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #561 on: June 02, 2022, 10:48:02 AM »

AFAIK, the FHWA has not yet given NYSDOT the green light to sign the Middletown section of Route 17 as I-86. Signs should be covered, but it looks like some of the covers have fallen off, or they forgot to cover them.

Nobody's given NYSDOT the green light to sign US 6 and US 202 as state routes, either, but yet here we are. :-P
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cockroachking

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #562 on: June 02, 2022, 11:42:31 AM »

AFAIK, the FHWA has not yet given NYSDOT the green light to sign the Middletown section of Route 17 as I-86. Signs should be covered, but it looks like some of the covers have fallen off, or they forgot to cover them.

Nobody's given NYSDOT the green light to sign US 6 and US 202 as state routes, either, but yet here we are. :-P
NY-44 and NY-209 have something to say too  :D
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dzheng35

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #563 on: June 04, 2022, 11:29:40 PM »

I drove on the Southern Tier Expressway today from exit 54 to 36 and back while google maps hasn't been updated yet, I noticed today that a lot if not all of the I-86/NY-17/NY-15 shields have been replaced with standalone I-86 shields with the southern tier expressway shield underneath the just simply marks the road as I-86 Southern Tier Expressway. I guess DOT finally took the guts to remove some of the NY-17 and NY-15 shields along that stretch.
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cl94

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #564 on: June 05, 2022, 12:10:47 PM »

I drove on the Southern Tier Expressway today from exit 54 to 36 and back while google maps hasn't been updated yet, I noticed today that a lot if not all of the I-86/NY-17/NY-15 shields have been replaced with standalone I-86 shields with the southern tier expressway shield underneath the just simply marks the road as I-86 Southern Tier Expressway. I guess DOT finally took the guts to remove some of the NY-17 and NY-15 shields along that stretch.

Yes, our roadgeek at Region 6 said NY 17 is being de-signed west of US 220. NY 15 was officially truncated to Wayland in the 70s and, as far as NYSDOT is concerned, NY 17 does not exist west of 220.

NYSDOT Region 5 stopped signing NY 17 a while back, so yeah.
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webny99

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #565 on: June 05, 2022, 10:51:44 PM »

I'll know NY 17 is officially gone when the atrocities at I-99 are finally gone (they were still there as of mid-April). Those signs are honestly my least-favorite thing about I-99 and I can't wait until it's just I-86 posted there.
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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #566 on: June 06, 2022, 12:23:12 AM »

Makes sense. Why sign two routes when one is needed.

Should be interesting east of Harriman. I say that cause NY 32 could be extended to Suffern and let NJ 17 be just NJ 17 south of I-287.
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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #567 on: June 06, 2022, 09:39:22 AM »

Should be interesting east of Harriman. I say that cause NY 32 could be extended to Suffern and let NJ 17 be just NJ 17 south of I-287.
If and when I-86 ever gets to Harriman, I'm not sure what they will do. Logically, NYSDOT should axe NY-17 altogether and extend NY-32, but at the same time, keeping NY-17 south of Harriman saves money and also allows them to keep NY-17A and NY-17M, since they would still connect to their parent once. Either way, I would imagine NY-17C and NY-17K get renumbered, else they would be orphaned or disconnected.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2022, 10:04:27 AM by cockroachking »
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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #568 on: June 06, 2022, 09:52:15 AM »

Should be interesting east of Harriman. I say that cause NY 32 could be extended to Suffern and let NJ 17 be just NJ 17 south of I-287.
If and when I-86 ever gets to Harriman, I'm not sure what they will do. Logically, NYSDOT should axe NY-17 altogether and extend NY-32, but at the same time, keeping NY-17 south of Harriman saves money and also allows them to keep NY-17A and NY-17M, since they would still connect to their parent once. Either way, I would imagine NY-17K gets renumbered, else it would be orphaned or disconnected.

I would personally like to see a Historic NY 17 given the importance of NY 17 to New Yorkís Southern Tier. Perhaps it could be used on the lettered routes. Or just put NY 17 on the local route.
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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #569 on: June 06, 2022, 10:51:42 AM »

If and when I-86 ever gets to Harriman, I'm not sure what they will do. Logically, NYSDOT should axe NY-17 altogether and extend NY-32, but at the same time, keeping NY-17 south of Harriman saves money and also allows them to keep NY-17A and NY-17M, since they would still connect to their parent once. Either way, I would imagine NY-17C and NY-17K get renumbered, else they would be orphaned or disconnected.
Doesn't stop NHDOT. ;)

I would personally like to see a Historic NY 17 given the importance of NY 17 to New Yorkís Southern Tier. Perhaps it could be used on the lettered routes. Or just put NY 17 on the local route.
Are there parts of old NY17 signed as CR17?
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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #570 on: June 06, 2022, 10:52:48 AM »

Should be interesting east of Harriman. I say that cause NY 32 could be extended to Suffern and let NJ 17 be just NJ 17 south of I-287.
If and when I-86 ever gets to Harriman, I'm not sure what they will do. Logically, NYSDOT should axe NY-17 altogether and extend NY-32, but at the same time, keeping NY-17 south of Harriman saves money and also allows them to keep NY-17A and NY-17M, since they would still connect to their parent once. Either way, I would imagine NY-17C and NY-17K get renumbered, else they would be orphaned or disconnected.

17B, 17C and 17K would be orphaned. Of course, 17K wasn't 17K originally either (was NY 215 originally).

That said, NYSDOT may choose to do nothing and leave the 3 routes orphaned and 17 magically becoming 32. I know I've suggested you could have 17 eat 17M. (My solution is to just burn I-86, especially east of 81.)


Are there parts of old NY17 signed as CR17?

Delaware County is old 17 becoming CR 17. Sullivan is CR 171-179 in a bunch of differing sections.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2022, 10:55:04 AM by Roadgeek Adam »
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dzheng35

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #571 on: June 09, 2022, 02:46:53 AM »

I drove on the Southern Tier Expressway today from exit 54 to 36 and back while google maps hasn't been updated yet, I noticed today that a lot if not all of the I-86/NY-17/NY-15 shields have been replaced with standalone I-86 shields with the southern tier expressway shield underneath the just simply marks the road as I-86 Southern Tier Expressway. I guess DOT finally took the guts to remove some of the NY-17 and NY-15 shields along that stretch.

Yes, our roadgeek at Region 6 said NY 17 is being de-signed west of US 220. NY 15 was officially truncated to Wayland in the 70s and, as far as NYSDOT is concerned, NY 17 does not exist west of 220.

NYSDOT Region 5 stopped signing NY 17 a while back, so yeah.

Are they replacing the I-86 signs too or are they just simply going to remove the 17 signs? I suppose they could just remove the 17 signs and leave the existing 86 signs there as it would be a waste of money to replace them too when they don't really need to be replaced at all.
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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #572 on: June 30, 2022, 11:45:47 PM »

Erm...

This...may be happening after all...

(personal opinion emphasized)
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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #573 on: July 01, 2022, 09:24:03 AM »

Which part? The removal of NY 17 signs west of US 220?

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Re: NY 17/"I-86"
« Reply #574 on: July 01, 2022, 09:53:21 AM »

Which part? The removal of NY 17 signs west of US 220?
My understanding is that NYSDOT is going to apply for federal discretionary grants to get more conversion projects funded.  So, if those grants come through, we may actually see more progress on converting NY 17 to I-86.

Of course, I-81 was shot down for an INFRA grant and I haven't heard of any other grants I-81 has been successful in obtaining, so who knows how the fickle FHWA decides who gets funding and who does not.

So, there's a slim chance there may be more movement in a few years.
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