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Author Topic: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?  (Read 8772 times)

roadman65

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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2012, 09:47:39 PM »

On US 1, I happened to count 55 junctions.  This counting both US 378 and US 15 & 501 twice, and counting US 206 in Trenton as its business route does intersect it. 

It does not seem that many other US routes end at it.  US 98 is questionable as there is a sign in Palm Beach on FL A1A does have signs posted there even though EB signage ends at US 1. 

US 41
US 27
US 23
US 319
US 401
US 130
US 22
US 46 (it does end while concurrent not at it head on, but we might as well consider it)
US 9W
US 4
US 302
US 201
US 2

I am certain that none are left out, but if I did that still is not much of endings.  Remember, most of US 1 is miles away from the ocean and even in Florida, both US 92 and US 192 still transit another 2 miles east before they end.
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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2012, 06:56:34 AM »

On US 1, I happened to count 55 junctions.  This counting both US 378 and US 15 & 501 twice, and counting US 206 in Trenton as its business route does intersect it. 

It does not seem that many other US routes end at it.  US 98 is questionable as there is a sign in Palm Beach on FL A1A does have signs posted there even though EB signage ends at US 1. 

US 41
US 27
US 23
US 319
US 401
US 130
US 22
US 46 (it does end while concurrent not at it head on, but we might as well consider it)
US 9W
US 4
US 302
US 201
US 2

I am certain that none are left out, but if I did that still is not much of endings.  Remember, most of US 1 is miles away from the ocean and even in Florida, both US 92 and US 192 still transit another 2 miles east before they end.

I believe US 2 continues east from US 1 to the Canadian border.
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NE2

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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2012, 07:08:31 AM »

big unsnipped quote

I believe US 2 continues east from US 1 to the Canadian border.

I believe there's a site that can answer that: http://www.usends.com/

Incidentally US 4 ends at I-95 and US 1 Bypass, and US 302 no longer ends at US 1 now that it's been rerouted onto I-295.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 07:11:23 AM by NE2 »
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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2012, 07:27:14 AM »

fairly small unsnipped quote, actually, if you think about it

I believe US 2 continues east from US 1 to the Canadian border.

I believe there's a site that can answer that: http://www.usends.com/

Incidentally US 4 ends at I-95 and US 1 Bypass, and US 302 no longer ends at US 1 now that it's been rerouted onto I-295.
Bypass 1 is de facto 1 for the time being, anyway, so I say count it. Goomaps has 302 ending at 295/1, and believe it or not, your own link to US Ends undoes your assertion - US 302 was rerouted to maintain its end at 1.

NE2

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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2012, 07:39:20 AM »

believe it or not, your own link to US Ends undoes your assertion - US 302 was rerouted to maintain its end at 1.
Hmmm, depends on whether you believe the DOT end sign or the DOT log. All the photos on http://www.usends.com/Focus/Portland/index.html predate the rerouting of US 1, but the Goog shows that the end sign remained when the US 1 sign was removed.
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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2012, 09:41:06 PM »

believe it or not, your own link to US Ends undoes your assertion - US 302 was rerouted to maintain its end at 1.
Hmmm, depends on whether you believe the DOT end sign or the DOT log. All the photos on http://www.usends.com/Focus/Portland/index.html predate the rerouting of US 1, but the Goog shows that the end sign remained when the US 1 sign was removed.
I believe the log. End signs are often proven erroneous, like CR 529 NB in NJ (most immediate example that leapt to mind, there are of course others).

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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2012, 02:34:54 AM »

I believe the log. End signs are often proven erroneous, like CR 529 NB in NJ (most immediate example that leapt to mind, there are of course others).
There's a difference between an end sign in the middle of the route and one that makes a logical end.
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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2012, 11:02:24 AM »

How about the END US 202 at I-95 in Delaware?

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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2012, 11:09:54 AM »

It's placed where it would be correct if the route ended at US 202. Hence in the middle of the route, even if it's not directly on the route itself.
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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2012, 11:11:55 AM »

It's placed where it would be correct if the route ended at US 202. Hence in the middle of the route, even if it's not directly on the route itself.
My point stands that END signs are not always correct.

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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2012, 11:19:46 AM »

Your point is actually that they're not always consistent with other signs. But logs are not always internally consistent either. There is no Word from God on which alignment is 'correct'. And signs are much more visible than logs, so when they are consistent with each other, it makes more sense (for many purposes) to follow them in picking the best approximation of an elusive 'correct' alignment (taking into account quirks like not signing a route that's about to end, just as one needs to deal with logs that don't include overlaps).

Another way of putting it is that if MDOT were serious about the log being canonical, they'd take better care to match the signs to it.
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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2012, 06:54:31 PM »

In some places you have touring routes that don't match the signed route. Let's take NJ 7 as an example we're both familiar with. NJ 7 is posted as one route in the field but the logs show two separate routes. (Excluding the relatively new overhead signs confirming the logs, which only came about in the last ten years,) Which one would you have taken as the correct one? Logs. Logs are always correct unless proven otherwise, and an END sign is not proof positive.

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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2012, 07:16:17 PM »

In some places you have touring routes that don't match the signed route. Let's take NJ 7 as an example we're both familiar with. NJ 7 is posted as one route in the field but the logs show two separate routes. (Excluding the relatively new overhead signs confirming the logs, which only came about in the last ten years,) Which one would you have taken as the correct one? Logs. Logs are always correct unless proven otherwise, and an END sign is not proof positive.


your sentence is a tiny bit ambiguous.  do you mean that NJ 7 is in two distinct segments, and connected with roads which are signed as NJ 7 but are not officially so?  (i.e. like CA 39)
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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2012, 08:44:24 PM »

In some places you have touring routes that don't match the signed route. Let's take NJ 7 as an example we're both familiar with. NJ 7 is posted as one route in the field but the logs show two separate routes. (Excluding the relatively new overhead signs confirming the logs, which only came about in the last ten years,) Which one would you have taken as the correct one? Logs. Logs are always correct unless proven otherwise, and an END sign is not proof positive.


your sentence is a tiny bit ambiguous.  do you mean that NJ 7 is in two distinct segments, and connected with roads which are signed as NJ 7 but are not officially so?  (i.e. like CA 39)


I should let Steve take this one, especially since you asked him, but since I'm here... NJ 7 consists of a north-south segment and an east-west segment.  IIRC, the east-west segment technically ends just short of the north-south segment for no good reason.  The road continues to the north-south segment, which would create a continuous route, except for the fact that the north-south segment continues for several blocks past the east-west segment.

(In other words, it's shaped like a sideways T, with a small gap between the two portions.)
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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2012, 08:56:49 PM »


I should let Steve take this one, especially since you asked him, but since I'm here... NJ 7 consists of a north-south segment and an east-west segment.  IIRC, the east-west segment technically ends just short of the north-south segment for no good reason.  The road continues to the north-south segment, which would create a continuous route, except for the fact that the north-south segment continues for several blocks past the east-west segment.

(In other words, it's shaped like a sideways T, with a small gap between the two portions.)

I wonder why they decided on that numbering scheme.  it seems logical to me that one of the segments would be better signed with a number of opposite parity.  (I can't remember if NJ is odd-north-south or odd-east-west.)
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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2012, 09:10:58 PM »

I wonder why they decided on that numbering scheme.  it seems logical to me that one of the segments would be better signed with a number of opposite parity.  (I can't remember if NJ is odd-north-south or odd-east-west.)

NJ is neither.  And the answer I gave is how the route is logged.  The route is signed as a continuous route from the northern terminus to the eastern terminus, bannered entirely north/south.  From what I could tell on GSV, the tail of the north/south portion has no reassurance markers, nor an end sign, but traffic light overheads from intersecting streets do mark it as NJ 7.  The non-state-maintained part of the east/west portion also lacks reassurance markers, except for one immediately after the intersection of NJ 7 & NJ 7, but also lacks the traffic light overheads.
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Re: What US highway has the most US highways that end at it?
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2012, 09:44:21 PM »

In some places you have touring routes that don't match the signed route. Let's take NJ 7 as an example we're both familiar with. NJ 7 is posted as one route in the field but the logs show two separate routes. (Excluding the relatively new overhead signs confirming the logs, which only came about in the last ten years,) Which one would you have taken as the correct one? Logs. Logs are always correct unless proven otherwise, and an END sign is not proof positive.


your sentence is a tiny bit ambiguous.  do you mean that NJ 7 is in two distinct segments, and connected with roads which are signed as NJ 7 but are not officially so?  (i.e. like CA 39)


I should let Steve take this one, especially since you asked him, but since I'm here... NJ 7 consists of a north-south segment and an east-west segment.  IIRC, the east-west segment technically ends just short of the north-south segment for no good reason.  The road continues to the north-south segment, which would create a continuous route, except for the fact that the north-south segment continues for several blocks past the east-west segment.

(In other words, it's shaped like a sideways T, with a small gap between the two portions.)

No, there's no really good reason for it. NJ 7 may have been signed up from downtown Newark back in the 20s, but state maintenance has always ended at the border and so has the route for as long as I've known. The eastern segment just ends at the Passaic River, but there's no clear reason why. It would be trivial to swap Washington St. for Belleville Tpk., segments of roughly equal length in the same county.

As for how routes are signed, NJ used the cluster method originally for routes 1-50, and then later 2-digit numbers were just assigned with no clear pattern. Anything from 1-50 that doesn't fit the clusters was renumbered, such as NJ 17 replacing NJ 2. Sometimes, you get coincidences, like NJ 31 fitting the cluster because it was originally NJ 30, but it had been renumbered to NJ 69 in the interim.

Anyway, this is all drifting from the original point, which was actually related to the topic at hand.

 


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