California Observations

[J N Winkler]

What other states, besides Arizona, use an exit tab larger than the MUTCD-specified 30 inches?

A partial list:

*  Indiana DOT (verified by inspecting contract plans for project 30111)

*  Idaho Transportation Department (verified by inspecting contract plans for key number 12865)

"Many" is perhaps a bit of an exaggeration--in a cursory check of my signing plans from various state DOTs, the only other state I found with an unusual exit tab sizing policy was Wyoming DOT (24" tab height).  (I think NCDOT used to use 24" but has changed to 30" now.)

[pctech]

How does California get all these exemptions to MUTCD standards?

Mark

[cpzilliacus]

How does California get all these exemptions to MUTCD standards?

Many (all?) states publish their own MUTCD supplement.  The states have the right to strike and add things in the federal MUTCD, as long as they follow a process of allowing for some comment and review (and I think the state supplements must be approved by the FHWA before they are considered final, though I understand that's pretty pro-forma).

The California MUTCD is online here.

For some comparison, the Maryland MUTCD is here.

Virginia MUTCD here.

[J N Winkler]

California only has to publish a traffic manual which is in "substantial conformance" with the national MUTCD.  FHWA's California division processes traffic manual approvals and has long had an explicit "low-hanging fruit first" policy--hence, exit tabs have been around since 2002 but nothing has been done about yellow crosswalks (unless something has happened in the last revision cycle).

[myosh_tino]

California only has to publish a traffic manual which is in "substantial conformance" with the national MUTCD.  FHWA's California division processes traffic manual approvals and has long had an explicit "low-hanging fruit first" policy--hence, exit tabs have been around since 2002 but nothing has been done about yellow crosswalks (unless something has happened in the last revision cycle).

From what I understand, yellow crosswalks are required per the California Vehicle Code section 21368 and since the federal MUTCD does not supersede state laws, there's not much the FHWA can do to force California to stop using yellow crosswalks unless a change is made to the CVC.  Section 3B-18 of the 2012 California MUTCD does add a standard statement that requires the use of yellow crosswalks for school crossings.

[Alps]

How does California get all these exemptions to MUTCD standards?

Many (all?)

A few.

[Brandon]

California only has to publish a traffic manual which is in "substantial conformance" with the national MUTCD.  FHWA's California division processes traffic manual approvals and has long had an explicit "low-hanging fruit first" policy--hence, exit tabs have been around since 2002 but nothing has been done about yellow crosswalks (unless something has happened in the last revision cycle).

From what I understand, yellow crosswalks are required per the California Vehicle Code section 21368 and since the federal MUTCD does not supersede state laws, there's not much the FHWA can do to force California to stop using yellow crosswalks unless a change is made to the CVC.  Section 3B-18 of the 2012 California MUTCD does add a standard statement that requires the use of yellow crosswalks for school crossings.

Interesting.  I saw the yellow crosswalks when I was out there, but I couldn't figure out why the heck they were yellow.  There was no accompanying signage.

[StogieGuy7]

How does California get all these exemptions to MUTCD standards?

Many (all?)

A few.

Enough that highways in California look quite different than those of any other state.  In some ways, that's a good thing.  In others, not so much.

[Alps]

Here's an observation made while in California.

I-8 WB and EB at the CA 15/I-15 changeover, both directions, all signs, have a greenout over SOMETHING before or after CA 15. It seems to only show up on the newer button copy (late 80s into 90s vintage) and is about 7 letters long give or take from I-8 WB, and about 9-10 letters from I-8 EB. What is this mystery destination, or... thing?

[NE2]

Perhaps 40th Street, which carried SR 15 until about 2000?

[Alps]

While we ponder that mystery, here's a second one - Exit 5 is for Mission Center Dr. and Auto Circle, and both names are tacked onto what appears to have been a formerly blank sign - EVERY time. So what's up with that?

[andy3175]

The California 15 south sign covers up 40th St.

The Mission Center Rd/Auto Circle sign covers up Mission Center Road (Auto Circle was added later).

Qualcomm Way covers up Stadium Way (although most of the signs here were replaced rather than covered up).

Regards,
Andy

[agentsteel53]

Perhaps 40th Street, which carried SR 15 until about 2000?

correct.  I believe it is either I-5 or I-805 northbound which has some upcoming-exit signs for which the ghost of "40th Street" is visible since it had button copy elements removed, as opposed to covered up.

[Alps]

The California 15 south sign covers up 40th St.

The Mission Center Rd/Auto Circle sign covers up Mission Center Road (Auto Circle was added later).

Qualcomm Way covers up Stadium Way (although most of the signs here were replaced rather than covered up).

Regards,
Andy

The last one I figured out. I learned more about 40th St. today so that makes some sense. My understanding is that CA 15 was still signed on it anyway, which goes with that part remaining on the original sign.

[JustDrive]

Perhaps 40th Street, which carried SR 15 until about 2000?

correct.  I believe it is either I-5 or I-805 northbound which has some upcoming-exit signs for which the ghost of "40th Street" is visible since it had button copy elements removed, as opposed to covered up.

Perhaps 40th Street, which carried SR 15 until about 2000?

correct.  I believe it is either I-5 or I-805 northbound which has some upcoming-exit signs for which the ghost of "40th Street" is visible since it had button copy elements removed, as opposed to covered up.

I believe it is I-805 NB where there's a very badly-done greenout that says "Junction" where it once said "40th Street."  Which is odd because on CA 15 NB at 805 NB, it says "Riverside."  Don't know why it wouldn't say likewise on 805 NB.  And I don't think 40th Street was ever mentioned on I-5.

[Alps]

Perhaps 40th Street, which carried SR 15 until about 2000?

correct.  I believe it is either I-5 or I-805 northbound which has some upcoming-exit signs for which the ghost of "40th Street" is visible since it had button copy elements removed, as opposed to covered up.

Perhaps 40th Street, which carried SR 15 until about 2000?

correct.  I believe it is either I-5 or I-805 northbound which has some upcoming-exit signs for which the ghost of "40th Street" is visible since it had button copy elements removed, as opposed to covered up.

I believe it is I-805 NB where there's a very badly-done greenout that says "Junction" where it once said "40th Street."  Which is odd because on CA 15 NB at 805 NB, it says "Riverside."  Don't know why it wouldn't say likewise on 805 NB.  And I don't think 40th Street was ever mentioned on I-5.

I don't think it's 805 NB because I just checked my signs and while the greenouts aren't great, you can't see any traces of what was written beneath them.

[Alps]

Also, on a new observations note, the last BGS on CA 905 WB is for Oro Vista Rd. The word "Vista" is patched over something - and then "Oro _____ Rd" is ITSELF patched over something else. Or so it appears. What's going on there?

[agentsteel53]

I don't think it's 805 NB because I just checked my signs and while the greenouts aren't great, you can't see any traces of what was written beneath them.

I remember it on two consecutive advance-exit signs.  (up high in the median, shows next 3 exits)  not at the actual exit.  the actual exit has greenout; the advance signs have the button elements demounted, and you can see their "shadow".

[Alps]

I don't think it's 805 NB because I just checked my signs and while the greenouts aren't great, you can't see any traces of what was written beneath them.

I remember it on two consecutive advance-exit signs.  (up high in the median, shows next 3 exits)  not at the actual exit.  the actual exit has greenout; the advance signs have the button elements demounted, and you can see their "shadow".

If that's the case, it's possible that new greenout was applied, because it sure looks new in my photos.

[CentralCAroadgeek]

To this day, I still don't understand this random Clearview "Truck Scales" sign on I-10 east near Banning. I spotted this last year, but I couldn't get a picture of it. Instead, here's a picture taken by Raymond Yu on Flickr.


Could it possibly be a local sign installation?

[ARMOURERERIC]

Perhaps 40th Street, which carried SR 15 until about 2000?

It is indeed 40th Street, I have lived in SD since 1996, and remember the signs pre greenout.  One of my first joyrides took me down 40th street.

[myosh_tino]

To this day, I still don't understand this random Clearview "Truck Scales" sign on I-10 east near Banning. I spotted this last year, but I couldn't get a picture of it. Instead, here's a picture taken by Raymond Yu on Flickr.


Could it possibly be a local sign installation?

It's been widely discussed in the "Worst of Road Signs" topic that any Raymond Yu sign photo on Flickr is bound to be a fake.  It all starts on post #1130...
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3521.msg141398#msg141398

and is an interesting read as a number of us try to determine if the signs in his photos are real or fake and what lengths we went to to get the real answer.

Here's my post where I discuss the response I got from Raymond basically confessing that his photos are doctored...
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3521.msg141721#msg141721

With regards to that photo in the previous post, it's an obvious fake.  Caltrans does not use "corrugated" sign panels for any of it's BGSes (I forgot what the technical term is for that type of sign construction) and as far as I know, Caltrans does not use Clearview on any of it's signs.  Clearview is being used in some areas at the local level for street blades and locally installed signs.

[NE2]

With regards to that photo in the previous post, it's an obvious fake.  Caltrans does not use "corrugated" sign panels for any of it's BGSes (I forgot what the technical term is for that type of sign construction) and as far as I know, Caltrans does not use Clearview on any of it's signs.  Clearview is being used in some areas at the local level for street blades and locally installed signs.

It's legit...
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.924228,-116.861964&spn=0.002883,0.004128&gl=us&t=k&z=19&layer=c&cbll=33.924223,-116.862072&panoid=4rJOAS-LipeVCtls2IBuwg&cbp=12,134.37,,2,-0.58

[myosh_tino]

With regards to that photo in the previous post, it's an obvious fake.  Caltrans does not use "corrugated" sign panels for any of it's BGSes (I forgot what the technical term is for that type of sign construction) and as far as I know, Caltrans does not use Clearview on any of it's signs.  Clearview is being used in some areas at the local level for street blades and locally installed signs.

It's legit...
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.924228,-116.861964&spn=0.002883,0.004128&gl=us&t=k&z=19&layer=c&cbll=33.924223,-116.862072&panoid=4rJOAS-LipeVCtls2IBuwg&cbp=12,134.37,,2,-0.58

Wow!  I stand corrected but given the source (Raymond Yu), you can't blame me for being skeptical.  The GSV image doesn't show the horizontal lines that are prominently visible in the Raymond Yu photo.  Maybe Caltrans borrowed/stole a sign from Arizona... 

[Brandon]

With regards to that photo in the previous post, it's an obvious fake.  Caltrans does not use "corrugated" sign panels for any of it's BGSes (I forgot what the technical term is for that type of sign construction) and as far as I know, Caltrans does not use Clearview on any of it's signs.  Clearview is being used in some areas at the local level for street blades and locally installed signs.

It's legit...
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.924228,-116.861964&spn=0.002883,0.004128&gl=us&t=k&z=19&layer=c&cbll=33.924223,-116.862072&panoid=4rJOAS-LipeVCtls2IBuwg&cbp=12,134.37,,2,-0.58

That's Clearview, but it's not corrugated.  Looks like plywood underneath.

Contractor installed signs?