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Author Topic: Traffic signal  (Read 482447 times)

SignBridge

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3400 on: September 22, 2020, 09:01:26 PM »

Along with that white line across the road, I'd guess it might be a fire station signal. Is there a fire station up ahead to the right where the American flags are flying? The signal probably lights up flashing red or amber when activated.
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mapman

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3401 on: September 23, 2020, 01:41:34 AM »

SignBridge, I think you're correct.  There's a fire station a few blocks away off Elizabeth Street.
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wanderer2575

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3402 on: September 23, 2020, 08:27:32 AM »

(1)  Southbound Halsted Road at Grand River Avenue in Farmington Hills, MI.  One left turn lane, two right turn lanes.  All traffic must turn (there's even a sign fixture on the signal wire).  Left turn signal is red-yellow-green left arrow.  But the right turn signals are red-yellow-green ball-green right arrow.  During the advance right turn phase, both right signals display a red ball and the right green arrow, even though GOING STRAIGHT THRU IS NOT AN OPTION.
https://goo.gl/maps/8bgwULuTw3XDPGU89

Has the signal changed from an earlier design? This GSV screenshot from only a year prior shows a green arrow in the second-to-bottom lens.

Based on the arrangement of the lanes and the movements here, all-arrow displays would seem to be appropriate for this approach unless the plan is to add a crosswalk across the right turn. In which case the green orb would need to be used to tell the double right turn to yield to pedestrians.

My bad; you are correct.  I thought they were green balls.  My point, though, was that since traffic has to turn right, why display a red ball with a green right arrow?  There is no crosswalk across Grand River Avenue, and I doubt there is any plan to add one since the loop ramp from eastbound Grand River is free-flowing (does not stop at the signal).
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mrsman

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3403 on: September 23, 2020, 10:34:28 AM »

Probably the first time I've ever seen horizontal signals in California.
I thought the same thing.


iPhone

Very rare, but exist particularly in these situations where an overhead structure blocks view.

As elevated train lines are becoming more of a thing in CA, we'll see more of these signals.  We'll see more as expansion of light rail and transit lines become a thing, construction of high speed rail, and even some RR grade crossing elmination.
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mrsman

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3404 on: September 23, 2020, 11:13:37 AM »

SignBridge, I think you're correct.  There's a fire station a few blocks away off Elizabeth Street.

Not a few blocks away, but right there there is something that involves fire trucks:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3255632,-79.8565186,3a,37.5y,195.18h,86.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX6ERhX3ameMprjsmIafuYQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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STLmapboy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3405 on: September 23, 2020, 11:18:28 AM »

SignBridge, I think you're correct.  There's a fire station a few blocks away off Elizabeth Street.
What does the blank out sign say then?
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STLmapboy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3406 on: September 23, 2020, 11:26:16 AM »

I may have mentioned a similar style a few pages back, but I just do not like this. From Sedalia.
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3407 on: September 23, 2020, 04:09:55 PM »

SignBridge, I think you're correct.  There's a fire station a few blocks away off Elizabeth Street.

Not a few blocks away, but right there there is something that involves fire trucks:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3255632,-79.8565186,3a,37.5y,195.18h,86.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX6ERhX3ameMprjsmIafuYQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

There is also a sign in the other direction that shows "ambulance exit": https://goo.gl/maps/xZ2Mpnqcx5crPNvg9

Something tells me that one of the buildings on this corner used to be a fire station.
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STLmapboy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3408 on: September 23, 2020, 10:31:37 PM »

I may have mentioned a similar style a few pages back, but I just do not like this. From Sedalia.
Found another one even closer afield. Things must not've worked out though, since the signal got its ball chopped off recently.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3409 on: September 24, 2020, 01:22:08 AM »

Couple things in California:

* Span-wire temporary signal in Roseville; northern ramp terminus between CA-65 and Galleria Blvd (since removed)

* Ramp meter with orange retroreflective border in Pacoima; on-ramp to westbound 210 Freeway from Foothill Blvd.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3410 on: September 24, 2020, 07:40:14 AM »

Couple things in California:

* Span-wire temporary signal in Roseville; northern ramp terminus between CA-65 and Galleria Blvd (since removed)

* Ramp meter with orange retroreflective border in Pacoima; on-ramp to westbound 210 Freeway from Foothill Blvd.

I've only seen one wired signal in CA, I'm not even sure if it's a temp set up: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7738812,-118.0384767,3a,75y,16.8h,89.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skGQ9GOIx6Q9Z0mITjGvBkg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
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STLmapboy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3411 on: September 24, 2020, 09:13:25 AM »

Couple things in California:

* Span-wire temporary signal in Roseville; northern ramp terminus between CA-65 and Galleria Blvd (since removed)

* Ramp meter with orange retroreflective border in Pacoima; on-ramp to westbound 210 Freeway from Foothill Blvd.

I've only seen one wired signal in CA, I'm not even sure if it's a temp set up: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7738812,-118.0384767,3a,75y,16.8h,89.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skGQ9GOIx6Q9Z0mITjGvBkg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
It is temp, I think for 405 construction. After the replacement of this wire in Carmel Valley off SR-1 with these thick mast arms, it is my knowledge that there are 0 non temp wires in CA.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3412 on: September 24, 2020, 09:15:30 AM »

Unrelated to my previous post, but: I really like these beacons off the Russellville KY bypass. It is a span wire box setup with large stop sign, two beacons each way, and backplates/reflectors on each of the beacons. I wish more beacons were like that as opposed to, say, this.
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fwydriver405

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3413 on: September 25, 2020, 08:46:15 AM »

I have an update about some of MaineDOT's policies regarding FYA and PPLT in general, specifically, when I asked them about the Stillwater Ave project:

Why is FYA (or any PPLT with a dedicated LT lane) across two oncoming thru lanes not permitted in Maine? 

I didn't get much from this response, though I did ask the same question again about the signals in Sanford as part of a seperate project, specifally, what data proves unsafe PPLT operation across two thru lanes.

Here's their response for the Stillwater project:

Quote from: MaineDOT
Presently, FYA to allow for permissive left-turns across 2 on-coming thru lanes are not permitted in Maine.

As for using FYA TOD phasing as a compromise to reduce left turning delay during the "light" traffic periods:

Quote from: MaineDOT
Presently, FYA to allow for permissive left-turns across 2 on-coming thru lanes are not permitted in Maine. In addition, an engineering study would need to be conducted to justify regulatory signing for time-of-day (TOD) restrictions.


Curious to what this "regulatory signing" is.. could it be a changeable message sign about left turn operation, or a static "Left on Green Arrow Only" sign with times that phasing is in effect? The "engineering study" is what's also scratching my head as well.

I also asked them about using FYA for the right turns instead of the shared signals and their response was:

Quote from: MaineDOT
Presently, flashing arrows (FRA and/or FYA) for right-turns are not approved for use in Maine.

Understandable, especially since they are just starting to use FYA for PPLT operations and want to see how things are first.

Finally, I thought I throw this in there, this time for College Ave:

Why does the WB Stillwater approach have to lose its right turn lane in favour of having two thru lanes? First, it would hold up the thru traffic which is non-conflicting during the LPI, and second, because of your current “no PPLT against two thru lanes” policy, it basically bars out PPLT phasing from EB Stillwater Ave to SB College Ave, and third, the right turning traffic would now have to make a full stop unnecessarily during the SB approach’s protected left.

Quote from: MaineDOT
The PM peak hour is the critical time of the day, when conflicting Stillwater Ave (NB) thru and college Ave (WB) left-turn movements are at their highest. A SB protected-permissive left turn was not proposed because it would not offer capacity advantages opposing a single NB thru lane in the PM peak hour, and it would add a safety risk to the left-turn movement. A NB Stillwater Ave lane configuration with one lane for each NB movement was considered, but the proposed lane configuration is required to meet forecasted capacity needs for the PM peak hour. “The 2 through lanes are required to meet current and forecast level of service objectives for the critical PM peak hour.”

More to come soon as I am still awaiting response for the comments I inquired about the Sanford signal replacement.
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mrsman

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3414 on: September 25, 2020, 11:18:32 AM »

It is unfortunate that Maine is disallowing PPLT across two opposing lanes.  Are they retrofitting older signals to conform with this policy?  Are there any other states with a similar policy out there?
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STLmapboy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3415 on: September 25, 2020, 01:26:51 PM »

This is interesting. Alabama originally had a mast arm here, but when the area was rebuilt a few years ago, it was replaced with a span wire. I've seen FL do this, but not other states. Any other examples?
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3416 on: September 25, 2020, 03:01:22 PM »

I have an update about some of MaineDOT's policies regarding FYA and PPLT in general, specifically, when I asked them about the Stillwater Ave project:

Without quoting everything: I find it absolutely bizarre that a state DOT would basically surround themselves with "hoops" which they then have to struggle to jump through.

Eg: (hoop 1) protected-only left turn across two turn lanes or (hoop 2) protected-permissive left turn across one lane? Meanwhile, every other state just goes through the door marked "protected permissive left turn across two lanes".
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fwydriver405

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3417 on: September 25, 2020, 05:42:52 PM »

It is unfortunate that Maine is disallowing PPLT across two opposing lanes.  Are they retrofitting older signals to conform with this policy?

Yes. With some exceptions, any signal that is previously PPLT and crosses two lanes, and having their signals upgraded or replaced are being subject to this new policy.  Existing installations may remain until replaced or if an exception is made for that particular location.

Are there any other states with a similar policy out there?

I don't think NHDOT has such policy, though from my observations, they will install protected only by default, especially if it's in a buissness district and/or crossing 2+ thru lanes. NH FYA's are usually installed on rural roads with a SL of ≤45mph crossing a single lane with good sight lines, but they can and will install FYA's on approaches with 2+ thru lanes. Heck, some NHDOT installs were recently converted to protected only to FYA PPLT under those conditions*!

*older GSV from 2012 shows a PPLT 5-section signal before NHDOT took over signal control.

Unsure about MassDOT (maybe Amtrakprod or anyone in the local area can elaborate on that), RIDOT or ConnDOT's policies about that.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 05:57:56 PM by fwydriver405 »
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Amtrakprod

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3418 on: September 25, 2020, 06:16:30 PM »

It is unfortunate that Maine is disallowing PPLT across two opposing lanes.  Are they retrofitting older signals to conform with this policy?

Yes. With some exceptions, any signal that is previously PPLT and crosses two lanes, and having their signals upgraded or replaced are being subject to this new policy.  Existing installations may remain until replaced or if an exception is made for that particular location.

Are there any other states with a similar policy out there?

I don't think NHDOT has such policy, though from my observations, they will install protected only by default, especially if it's in a buissness district and/or crossing 2+ thru lanes. NH FYA's are usually installed on rural roads with a SL of ≤45mph crossing a single lane with good sight lines, but they can and will install FYA's on approaches with 2+ thru lanes. Heck, some NHDOT installs were recently converted to protected only to FYA PPLT under those conditions*!

*older GSV from 2012 shows a PPLT 5-section signal before NHDOT took over signal control.

Unsure about MassDOT (maybe Amtrakprod or anyone in the local area can elaborate on that), RIDOT or ConnDOT's policies about that.

MassDOT is pretty free about this stuff. I've seen 3 conflicting lanes have permissive left. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6286323,-71.2742908,3a,75y,112.79h,89.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMKxe8TK2Ab_CN6rOfWY7hg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Typically the rule is 2 or less lanes though for permissive. MassDOT doesn't really have a standard rule about this. They study every light specifically for designs. Pretty neat!
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3419 on: September 25, 2020, 08:29:25 PM »

I'm fairly certain that quite a few states have no rules on number of opposing lanes. WSDOT has a suggestion for no more than two, but it's widely disregarded by them and cities and counties.

In fact, I think in most states, the guidelines for signalization are simply suggestions, with individual engineers being able to make the call. Maine seems odd in having such tight controls.
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STLmapboy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3420 on: September 26, 2020, 03:06:56 PM »

It's kinda hard to see, but this doghouse has two green arrows instead of a green ball/green arrow. Of course, now that the new Ellis Road is completed, this has probably gone away.
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STLmapboy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3421 on: September 30, 2020, 12:08:56 PM »

OK, this you've got to see.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3422 on: October 01, 2020, 01:05:38 AM »

OK, this you've got to see.

I guess the mast on the left wasn't good enough?? And the height?? :crazy:

That seems like it would blow over in a gust of wind.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3423 on: October 01, 2020, 08:53:12 AM »

MA traffic lights near me:
this , this , this , this , and this .
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3424 on: October 01, 2020, 09:57:40 AM »

Possibly bad signal placement...why don't they put the relevant signals facing the sidestreet on the mast arm coming from the left?  https://goo.gl/maps/KAmd65KTKKpW2miD9
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