Traffic signal

[thenetwork]

Craig, CO:

Originally:  https://www.google.com/maps/@40.515415,-107.57446,3a,59.629307y,347.01794h,89.199745t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sAsqbCTeSN5DpFnT8cMdmOw!2e0

Recently:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/8fTAKG2SR91LkTUD7

Apparantly, this is a school crossing zone on the CO-13 Bypass.  I assume they only use it when kids are going to/coming from school, because I have never seen it in use.

[kphoger]

Craig, CO:

Originally:  https://www.google.com/maps/@40.515415,-107.57446,3a,59.629307y,347.01794h,89.199745t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sAsqbCTeSN5DpFnT8cMdmOw!2e0

Recently:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/8fTAKG2SR91LkTUD7

Apparantly, this is a school crossing zone on the CO-13 Bypass.  I assume they only use it when kids are going to/coming from school, because I have never seen it in use.

Yeah, that's totally non-compliant.

Furthermore, according to Colorado state law, all drivers are required to treat it as a stop sign.

Title 42 — Vehicles and Traffic

Article 4 — Regulation of Vehicles and Traffic

Part 6 — Signals – Signs – Markings

Section 42-4-612 — When signals are inoperative or malfunctioning – penalty

(1)(a) — When a driver approaches an intersection and faces a traffic control signal that is inoperative, that remains on steady red or steady yellow during several time cycles, or that does not recognize a motorcycle or autocycle that is operated by the driver, the provisions controlling entrance to a through street or highway from a stop sign or highway, as provided under section 42-4-703, apply until a police officer assumes control of traffic or until the traffic control signal resumes normal operation.

(3) — Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class A traffic infraction.

Title 42 — Vehicles and Traffic

Article 4 — Regulation of Vehicles and Traffic

Part 7 — Rights-of-Way

Section 42-4-703 — Entering through highway – stop or yield intersection

(3) — Except when directed to proceed by a police officer, every driver of a vehicle approaching a stop sign shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. After having stopped, the driver shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time when such driver is moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways.

(5) — Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class A traffic infraction.

[thenetwork]

Craig, CO:

Originally:  https://www.google.com/maps/@40.515415,-107.57446,3a,59.629307y,347.01794h,89.199745t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sAsqbCTeSN5DpFnT8cMdmOw!2e0

Recently:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/8fTAKG2SR91LkTUD7

Apparantly, this is a school crossing zone on the CO-13 Bypass.  I assume they only use it when kids are going to/coming from school, because I have never seen it in use.

Yeah, that's totally non-compliant.

Furthermore, according to Colorado state law, all drivers are required to treat it as a stop sign.

Title 42 — Vehicles and Traffic

Article 4 — Regulation of Vehicles and Traffic

Part 6 — Signals – Signs – Markings

Section 42-4-612 — When signals are inoperative or malfunctioning – penalty

(1)(a) — When a driver approaches an intersection and faces a traffic control signal that is inoperative, that remains on steady red or steady yellow during several time cycles, or that does not recognize a motorcycle or autocycle that is operated by the driver, the provisions controlling entrance to a through street or highway from a stop sign or highway, as provided under section 42-4-703, apply until a police officer assumes control of traffic or until the traffic control signal resumes normal operation.

(3) — Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class A traffic infraction.

Title 42 — Vehicles and Traffic

Article 4 — Regulation of Vehicles and Traffic

Part 7 — Rights-of-Way

Section 42-4-703 — Entering through highway – stop or yield intersection

(3) — Except when directed to proceed by a police officer, every driver of a vehicle approaching a stop sign shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. After having stopped, the driver shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time when such driver is moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways.

(5) — Any person who violates any provision of this section commits a class A traffic infraction.

Perhaps they tried to sneak by with eliminating the overheads.  But you're right...Definitely non-kosher.

They can't even SIGN the crosswalk properly!

[kphoger]

2007 GSV shows it in operation:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/E2aYCeQMv6ttzxX98

Since then, not only did the stoplight go dark, but the marked crosswalk and ped signals were also removed.

[freebrickproductions]

2007 GSV shows it in operation:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/E2aYCeQMv6ttzxX98

Since then, not only did the stoplight go dark, but the marked crosswalk and ped signals were also removed.

One of the ped signals is still there, I think those signals are just completely abandoned in place now.

[roadman65]

Was wondering why Florida traffic signals have a box above the signal head and beneath the cable where North Carolina does not.  Photo 1 is taken in Pensacola and Photo 2 in Rocky Mount, NC.  The second photo has the signal head hanging from the wire without anything between it and the support cable, while the first photo has a small box below the cables and above the signal.

Better yet what is that box and its function?

[freebrickproductions]

The box is a quick disconnect hanger, which usually contain a terminal block to make wiring the signals hanging on a span-wire easier. I believe Florida spec's them because of the hurricanes they tend to see, as it usually makes replacing the span-wire signals easier if any get torn down during the storm.

[Scott5114]

The box is a quick disconnect hanger, which usually contain a terminal block to make wiring the signals hanging on a span-wire easier. I believe Florida spec's them because of the hurricanes they tend to see, as it usually makes replacing the span-wire signals easier if any get torn down during the storm.

I would imagine it would also make removing the signal heads easier before a storm, if that's something they had the inclination to do.

[EpicRoadways]

On a run a few days ago, I ran into this privately-owned traffic (cattle?) signal. While I've occasionally seen traffic signals on private property displayed as lawn decorations or collection pieces, what sets this signal apart is that it's actually facing the roadway and it looks like it may be sort of operational, at least in a practical sense (though I can't see a controller, there's what appears to be a solar panel on the back of it, and when I ran by the red signal was lit. In the GSV, it looks like the signal is flashing yellow). The sign on top, while tough to make out in GSV, says something like "cattle crossing" from my recollection. If the signal isn't in the public ROW, it's certainly close enough that it could be mistaken for an actual traffic control device. This isn't a crazy busy road, but it's a thru street in a rapidly developing area. Curious what you all think- are my concerns legit, am I overreacting, and is this something that anyone else has seen before?

[roadman65]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53524282619

Interesting FYLA using a three section instead of a four like other Flashing lefts have.  Either there is no permissive phase or its got the signal heads that NJ uses for permissive turning using LED arrows that change colors.

[plain]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53524282619

Interesting FYLA using a three section instead of a four like other Flashing lefts have.  Either there is no permissive phase or its got the signal heads that NJ uses for permissive turning using LED arrows that change colors.

The bottom aspect could be bimodal, like some of the ones I've seen in Charlotte.

[freebrickproductions]

Was poking around some on Google Maps this evening when I stumbled across this intersection in Hyndman, PA, that's definitely a bit strange, at least signalwise. The intersection is a three-way intersection where PA 96 turns as it goes through the town, so the intersection is set-up as a two-way stop, with an exception for right turns, to allow traffic on PA 96 to flow through it smoothly. However, as the intersection also features a set of 8 inch flashing beacons, one of the beacons has a 12 inch section with a green arrow on it that appears to be continuously lit to help reinforce that the one right turn there doesn't have to stop. I think that's the first time I've ever seen a beacon like that one.

[mrsman]

Was poking around some on Google Maps this evening when I stumbled across this intersection in Hyndman, PA, that's definitely a bit strange, at least signalwise. The intersection is a three-way intersection where PA 96 turns as it goes through the town, so the intersection is set-up as a two-way stop, with an exception for right turns, to allow traffic on PA 96 to flow through it smoothly. However, as the intersection also features a set of 8 inch flashing beacons, one of the beacons has a 12 inch section with a green arrow on it that appears to be continuously lit to help reinforce that the one right turn there doesn't have to stop. I think that's the first time I've ever seen a beacon like that one.

Definitely a weird setup.  There probably should be some extra signage around the intersection that traffic from the right (or from the left, depending on perspective) does not stop.

Similar to a sign that exists here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0475811,-77.0980982,3a,37.5y,327.75h,81.85t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sG8QnfAYsS3or8EK4CUZWAg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D8.153133390398978%26panoid%3DG8QnfAYsS3or8EK4CUZWAg%26yaw%3D327.7486781743419!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MTEwNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[roadman65]

Too funny not to share.  A truck hits a signal and carries the pole down the road afterwards.

Yes you must have Igram to sse unfortunately unless someone knows how to transfer it to a more accessible website.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQ7Ow36Ee8B/?igsh=YTB2ODJtcnpvb2o=

[steviep24]

Too funny not to share.  A truck hits a signal and carries the pole down the road afterwards.

Yes you must have Igram to sse unfortunately unless someone knows how to transfer it to a more accessible website.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQ7Ow36Ee8B/?igsh=YTB2ODJtcnpvb2o=

Here's one on Youtube

[roadman65]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53524139558

I think its interstate the way NC mounts their flashers.

The red flashers are positioned in a stacked form over the the yellow's traditional side by side.

[Tendies]

On Streetview, I like to try older traffic light installs. In North Carolina, I like to try and find installs before they changed everything to Eagles, so installs prior to the 2000s. So far, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Raleigh, and Salisbury are the best cities to find older stuff on the 2007 Streetview.

In particular, I like to find old left turn signals in NC that use the two red balls (ex. this one in Winston-Salem or this one is Salisbury)

I used to live in Fayetteville / Ft. Bragg and most of their old signals were replaced by the 2000s. I remember a couple old ones, Yadkin Road & Santa Fe Drive used to have left turn signals with two red balls.

I also remember at Owen Drive & Village Drive there used to be a RIGHT turn signal that used two red balls that was replaced in the mid-90s.

At the Cross Creek Mall entrance on Morganton Road, there were some 8-8-12 left & right turn signals.

Downtown, there used to be a left turn signal (two red balls) that had a left and left-up arrow at Ray, Hay & Old Streets.

At Business 95 & Airport Blvd, I believe there were two 5-section towers for the dual right turn lanes onto Business 95. This would have been about 1995, so my memory is fuzzy here.

There was an 8-8-12 left turn signal in Fullerton, CF (Orangethorpe x Lemon). Note the use of a red circle to mark a protected only left turn, rather than a red arrow, along with slots to obscure visibility from outside the left turn lane. The other left turn indicator has a filtered lense that obscures visibility. Has since been replaced with a standard left turn arrow assembly. I have a screenshot of another one but I don't remember where it was.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/L8zDFomXqc5bbf4z7

Here's another 8-8-12 (Buena Park, CF, Valley View x CA-91), same situation as above. Has also been replaced. Note the permanent green up arrow next to it (half diamond interchange, no ped xing)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TMTHZuA79tdampWH7

This one, also in Fullerton (Harbor x Berkeley), may be the most cursed 5 bulb assembly I've ever seen (also since replaced):
https://maps.app.goo.gl/VhuPdraNDmvAQ8oG9

[ARMOURERERIC]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/53524282619

Interesting FYLA using a three section instead of a four like other Flashing lefts have.  Either there is no permissive phase or its got the signal heads that NJ uses for permissive turning using LED arrows that change colors.

Got one of these on my morning commute, northbound Enola Rd at Brittain, just north of Patton HS.  It's not bimodal, but the opposing direction is a 4 head install.

[jakeroot]

How common is it to see permissive left turns across dedicated tram tracks from the road the tram is on? As opposed to from an intersecting road, where there is no apparent or potential interference from trams/trolleys during the permissive turn phase.

Denver's RTD R-line, which (re)opened in the late 2010s, has a ton of permissive left turns that cross over the tram tracks from the same road the tram runs on, with FYAs being used at all of them from what I can tell:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/KVmsjzfpZ3ZRWq4r5 (left turn (2) across the tracks, no train present)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/qi6CS9kXmN3YpUMdA (across a curved point in the tracks)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5ELmn3Qp6ZAB1jqw8 (red during train pre-emption (see other direction))

It's not unusual to see permissive phasing when trams/trolleys share the road with cars, but I don't think it's as common when they run in exclusive right-of-way.

Usually, at least here in WA, such as along the exclusive right-of-way sections of the Link Light Rail, the left turns rest in a red arrow phase, so as to not induce a yellow trap if a train comes along. This is easily solved (as evidenced from Denver) by simply going all-red prior to the train arriving. Unless a tram/trolley comes so exhaustingly often that an all-red phase would become a nuisance, it does seem like not allowing permissive lefts during the gaps between trains would create unnecessary congestion. The only exception to the rule in WA seems to be these two intersections (1, 2) along the Tacoma Link trolley near the Tacoma Dome. Otherwise, it's protected-only across dedicated ROW.

I saw this a ton in Japan, but it was so exhaustingly common I didn't see the need to mention it.

[fwydriver405]

How common is it to see permissive left turns across dedicated tram tracks from the road the tram is on? As opposed to from an intersecting road, where there is no apparent or potential interference from trams/trolleys during the permissive turn phase.

On the street-running portions of the MBTA Green Line B, C, and E branches, almost all signalised left turns with a dedicated left turn lane are set to fully protected. However, on the B and E branches where there is a shared left-thru lane, fully permissive phasing, or protected-permissive phasing, with a shared signal, and with a leading left turn are used at these locations:

Green Line B
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Harvard Street (fully permissive, shared green ball)
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Allston Street (permissive-protected, with a 5-section signal)
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Kelton Street / Warren Street (permissive-protected, with a 5-section signal). Notice how the westbound vehicle lanes cross over so now Green Line B can be in the centre of the road as opposed to being between the local and thru lanes of Commonwealth Ave.
- WB Commonwealth Avenue at Summit Avenue (fully permissive, shared green ball)
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Colborne Road (fully permissive, shared green ball)
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Wallingford Rd (fully permissive, shared green ball)
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Chiswick Road (fully permissive, shared green ball)

Green Line E
- WB Huntington Avenue (MA Route 9) at Forsyth Street (permissive-protected, with a 5-section signal)
- WB Huntington Avenue (MA Route 9) at Francis Street / Tremont Street  (permissive-protected, with a 5-section signal. Former example, now the left turns are prohibited as of 2024)

The second, former one on Green Line E is a bit questionable since this is the transition point between having a dedicated right of way and riding in an active lane of traffic. The remaining portions from Brigham Circle to Heath Street that are street running are slated to be converted to having dedicated ROW starting sometime by the end of the decade, at least as of the City of Boston.

Most, if not all of the signalised intersections along Green Line C are either fully protected or prohibit left turns entirely. However, there are a few unsignalised examples if you look around Beacon Street. Green Line D west of Fenway to Riverside runs in a dedicated right of way separate from cars (along the former Highland Branch), so there are no examples on this branch.
 
There is also this at Cleveland Circle, however, the tracks that run along Chestnut Hill Avenue are non-revenue tracks so I'm a bit inclined to include this.

[jakeroot]

How common is it to see permissive left turns across dedicated tram tracks from the road the tram is on? As opposed to from an intersecting road, where there is no apparent or potential interference from trams/trolleys during the permissive turn phase.

On the street-running portions of the MBTA Green Line B, C, and E branches, almost all signalised left turns with a dedicated left turn lane are set to fully protected. However, on the B and E branches where there is a shared left-thru lane, fully permissive phasing, or protected-permissive phasing, with a shared signal, and with a leading left turn are used at these locations:

Green Line B
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Harvard Street (fully permissive, shared green ball)
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Allston Street (permissive-protected, with a 5-section signal)
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Kelton Street / Warren Street (permissive-protected, with a 5-section signal). Notice how the westbound vehicle lanes cross over so now Green Line B can be in the centre of the road as opposed to being between the local and thru lanes of Commonwealth Ave.
- WB Commonwealth Avenue at Summit Avenue (fully permissive, shared green ball)
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Colborne Road (fully permissive, shared green ball)
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Wallingford Rd (fully permissive, shared green ball)
- EB Commonwealth Avenue at Chiswick Road (fully permissive, shared green ball)

Green Line E
- WB Huntington Avenue (MA Route 9) at Forsyth Street (permissive-protected, with a 5-section signal)
- WB Huntington Avenue (MA Route 9) at Francis Street / Tremont Street  (permissive-protected, with a 5-section signal. Former example, now the left turns are prohibited as of 2024)

The second, former one on Green Line E is a bit questionable since this is the transition point between having a dedicated right of way and riding in an active lane of traffic. The remaining portions from Brigham Circle to Heath Street that are street running are slated to be converted to having dedicated ROW starting sometime by the end of the decade, at least as of the City of Boston.

Most, if not all of the signalised intersections along Green Line C are either fully protected or prohibit left turns entirely. However, there are a few unsignalised examples if you look around Beacon Street. Green Line D west of Fenway to Riverside runs in a dedicated right of way separate from cars (along the former Highland Branch), so there are no examples on this branch.
 
There is also this at Cleveland Circle, however, the tracks that run along Chestnut Hill Avenue are non-revenue tracks so I'm a bit inclined to include this.

Thanks for the reply! And so interesting, lots of great examples here.

It does seem to be that "legacy" systems allow for a bit more freedom, but newer systems are a bit more restrictive. The RTD R-line in Denver is pretty weird in that it's a brand-new metro/tram system with permissive lefts, although the red arrows do activate when the train comes by.

It would be interesting to see how traffic reacts in those Boston examples when a Green Line tram comes along.

[fwydriver405]

It would be interesting to see how traffic reacts in those Boston examples when a Green Line tram comes along.

At least on Green Line E, I often hear a lot of horns blaring from Green Line operators near the Northeastern stop, either from:
- Cars from WB Huntington wanting to either make a left onto SB Forsyth or U-turn onto EB Huntington, sitting on the tracks waiting to find a safe gap in traffic to complete their turn as the trolley is approaching,
- Same situation as above, but almost sideswiping the trolley, and
- Pedestrians crossing in front of the train as its approaching.

[CoreySamson]

Have the Houston LED-neon red backlit signals been mentioned here yet? Well if not here is one example of them I took last night:

[kphoger]

I did a quick search in the MUTCD but didn't find an answer to this question:

For dual left-turn lanes that use an R10-10 sign, is there any official guidance on how many signs should be used?

Two signals, one sign each:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/8WVN51d7VPgwLY8E9

Two signals, a single shared sign:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/WFCby4eyoDAF3Nd9A

[freebrickproductions]

I did a quick search in the MUTCD but didn't find an answer to this question:

For dual left-turn lanes that use an R10-10 sign, is there any official guidance on how many signs should be used?

Two signals, one sign each:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/8WVN51d7VPgwLY8E9

Two signals, a single shared sign:  https://maps.app.goo.gl/WFCby4eyoDAF3Nd9A

Back when Huntsville used left turn signals with red balls, they tended to do it both ways as well, IIRC.