Traffic signal

[SignBridge]

Does anyone know of, or have any photos of HAWK signals used in front of fire stations? The Manual does allow them to be used in that setting (Sec. 4N.02) So far I've not seen them used that way in my area but I wonder if it's being done anywhere else.

[jakeroot]

Does anyone know of, or have any photos of HAWK signals used in front of fire stations? The Manual does allow them to be used in that setting (Sec. 4N.02) So far I've not seen them used that way in my area but I wonder if it's being done anywhere else.

I have seen one for a fire station, exactly one time, and it was on Fort Lewis (JBLM). But last time I was on there, I couldn't find it, so I think it was removed.

[fwydriver405]

Does anyone know of, or have any photos of HAWK signals used in front of fire stations? The Manual does allow them to be used in that setting (Sec. 4N.02) So far I've not seen them used that way in my area but I wonder if it's being done anywhere else.

Here in MA and NH, there are plenty of 12-12-8 (R-SY-FY) signals for emergency vehicles. But as for HAWKs (Emergency Vehicle Hybrid Beacons) - I've only seen four in person, two I've seen that have been activated by emergency vehicles (denoted by †)

Massachusetts
Mass Ave - Lexington Fire Department (East Lexington)
Bedford St - Lexington (was used as "Fire and Rescue", then for the Police). On this beacon, instead of staying dark, the flashing yellow flashes until a call is placed on the side street. The side street signals flash red, and the bottom aspect is green. but can't remember if the bottom aspect is green or yellow.

New Hampshire
US 3 - Concord Fire Department, Manor Station†

Maine
US 1 - Scarborough Fire Department, Dunstan Station†

[fillup420]

Does anyone know of, or have any photos of HAWK signals used in front of fire stations? The Manual does allow them to be used in that setting (Sec. 4N.02) So far I've not seen them used that way in my area but I wonder if it's being done anywhere else.

I have seen one for a fire station, exactly one time, and it was on Fort Lewis (JBLM). But last time I was on there, I couldn't find it, so I think it was removed.

Here is one

[fwydriver405]

Jefferson Avenue west of the Gordie Howe Bridge in Detroit.

• HAWK signals at a railroad crossing.
• Westbound signals are on a mast arm, while eastbound signals are on a span wire.  No doubt because there's a side street to the left here, but it still looks goofy.
• Extra signal heads for the bike lane.

I remember inquiring about that signal setup back in 2022 in the HAWK thread (see below) - seems like that the supplemental bicycle signals were added AFTER August 2024 in lieu of what looks like a cycle track being built...

Speaking of Hybrid Beacons and railroad crossings... what about them actually being used at a railroad crossing, either in tandem with existing signals or as the actual warning devices? Two examples I can think of:

W Jefferson Ave and Zug Island Rd in Detroit MI - there are no actual railroad (level) crossing signals here, the hybrid beacons ARE the actual level crossing signals. Past GSV suggested they replaced traditional RYG signals on the mast arm around 2017. Wonder if their sequence is very similar to how the United Kingdom and Ireland does their level crossings. Example of what I mean for a sequence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KVOPU5MQrw

[fillup420]

Does anyone know of, or have any photos of HAWK signals used in front of fire stations? The Manual does allow them to be used in that setting (Sec. 4N.02) So far I've not seen them used that way in my area but I wonder if it's being done anywhere else.

Bedford St - Lexington (was used as "Fire and Rescue", then for the Police). On this beacon, instead of staying dark, the flashing yellow flashes until a call is placed on the side street. The side street signals flash red, but can't remember if the bottom aspect is green or yellow.

I have always felt that the HAWK signal should operate in that way for every application (flash yellow all-time, then solid yellow to red/flash red). encountering a dark signal usually means a driver should treat it as an all-way stop, and the HAWK's default operation contradicts that rule.

[CoreySamson]

I have always felt that the HAWK signal should operate in that way for every application (flash yellow all-time, then solid yellow to red/flash red).

I have always felt that the HAWK signal should go home, stress eat a bowl of cheese puffs, rethink its life while sitting on its bed as it pondered its life choices (how did I manage to be worse than a pelican signal crossing in every way?), drown its worries in a pint consisting of a mixture of vodka, cough syrup, maple syrup, and Karo syrup, decide it is not worth it to exist anymore, and commit seppuku by leaning on a sword in a final attempt of valiance and clear communication (of which it previously possessed neither).

[fwydriver405]

I have always felt that the HAWK signal should operate in that way for every application (flash yellow all-time, then solid yellow to red/flash red). encountering a dark signal usually means a driver should treat it as an all-way stop, and the HAWK's default operation contradicts that rule.

IIRC, Maryland had a modified version of what you described (though not a true HAWK/PHB configuration and arrangement) - the only difference is that there is a fast flash portion of the cycle once a call is placed between the "slow" flash and the steady yellow phase. Notice during the FDW portion of the cycle, the two red indications flash simultaneously instead of in a "wig-wag" like a typical HAWK.

GSV suggests that this installation was removed sometime between June 2018 and Sept 2021 (converted into a normal RYG intersection).

[bcroadguy]

Jefferson Avenue west of the Gordie Howe Bridge in Detroit.

• HAWK signals at a railroad crossing.
• Westbound signals are on a mast arm, while eastbound signals are on a span wire.  No doubt because there's a side street to the left here, but it still looks goofy.
• Extra signal heads for the bike lane.

I've always liked Michigan's illuminated "LEFT" signs. I didn't know there was a bike version of it, but I love it.

[bcroadguy]

But with the u-turn signal more broadly, outside of an RCUT, or where the only left movement is a u-turn, has a u-turn arrow been installed elsewhere?

McPhillips and Kingsbury in Winnipeg, Manitoba. It was the only U-turn signal in Canada I was aware of until someone earlier in this thread pointed out that Calgary has some.

[SignBridge]

I have always felt that the HAWK signal should operate in that way for every application (flash yellow all-time, then solid yellow to red/flash red). encountering a dark signal usually means a driver should treat it as an all-way stop, and the HAWK's default operation contradicts that rule.


IIRC, Maryland had a modified version of what you described (though not a true HAWK/PHB configuration and arrangement) - the only difference is that there is a fast flash portion of the cycle once a call is placed between the "slow" flash and the steady yellow phase. Notice during the FDW portion of the cycle, the two red indications flash simultaneously instead of in a "wig-wag" like a typical HAWK.

GSV suggests that this installation was removed sometime between June 2018 and Sept 2021 (converted into a normal RYG intersection).

Glad to hear it was removed. That fast flashing yellow was definitely NOT MUTCD compliant. 

[Tendies]

With regards to U-turn only lanes, I've seen a good mix standard left turn arrows and special U turn arrows. U turn arrows aren't unheard of, but they are rare, as dedicated U-turn lanes are themselves rare. but there is one more that wasn't mentioned in Anaheim on CA-39 (Beach Blvd), just north of Ball Rd. There's also a private driveway at that intersection. This one was installed in 2017, formerly an uncontrolled left across four lanes.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/prPtVhKsM5YneRKy9

Fully unprotected U-turn only lane facing a double protected-only left turn, US-60 (Grand Ave), Surprise, AZ. Visibility is trash if the outer opposing turn lane has a car in it. Doubly so that this road regularly sees very high traffic volumes and often at 65+ (posted 50).
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UCWVR8ycVVrr3kp27

[jakeroot]

Fully unprotected U-turn only lane facing a double protected-only left turn, US-60 (Grand Ave), Surprise, AZ. Visibility is trash if the outer opposing turn lane has a car in it. Doubly so that this road regularly sees very high traffic volumes and often at 65+ (posted 50).
https://maps.app.goo.gl/UCWVR8ycVVrr3kp27

Looks like visibility is poor at the stop line, but I think it would be acceptable if you pull forward and complete part of the U-turn, and position the nose of your car at the edge of oncoming traffic. Still, this highlights the downsides of negative-offset left turn lanes.

Still, based on my regular surveys of various states, Arizona might be one of the only states to be okay installing a signal/setup like this. Pretty much every other state would have installed at least some kind of dedicated turn signal (even a flashing yellow arrow). For example, this U-turn/left turn lane opposite a double protected left turn in Federal Way, Washington. This was made safer with a neutral-offset turn lane, thankfully.