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Author Topic: Traffic signal  (Read 310569 times)

NoGoodNamesAvailable

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1725 on: June 14, 2018, 07:32:47 PM »

Bike signals should really only be used along two-way cycle tracks

Why? Most protected bike lanes in NYC are one-way.

Just seems like overkill. I like protected bike paths, but the single lane ones work fine with normal traffic lights. Two-way cycle paths? Those definitely need full protection. Honestly, I think one-way cycle paths are a waste of time. Just move all traffic to one side of the roadway, and use the extra space for a two-way path on the other side.

Images I've seen from NYC use FYA's against one-way cycle paths, so they really don't operate any different than a standard bike lane with green or blue paint through an intersection. In those instances, they'd be better off just switching the turn lanes and the bike lanes up several dozens of feet prior to an intersection, so the only conflict point is a brief switchover.

I'm going to beg to disagree. The unprotected "mixing zone" that NYC DOT uses is a death trap. You cannot expect drivers to yield to parallel bicycle traffic at speed, dozens of feet before an intersection—they just won't.

All intersections with a turn signal/bike signal treatment in NYC have a full turn protection phase for bicycles that usually switches to a permissive FYA. I can tell you from my own experience that even a short protected phase is a major improvement, similar to a leading pedestrian interval. Yielding behavior is much better when bicycles are allowed to establish themselves in the intersection before vehicles start turning.

One of my pet peeves is how NYC DOT ends the green paint at intersections and driveways—it seems awfully backward, painting the lane green where it's least useful then ending the paint where it's most needed.
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1726 on: June 14, 2018, 09:31:06 PM »

It looks to me as though New York City's design of the crossover point is quite poor. Minimal markings, and poor visibility thanks to parked cars. Just rectifying those two things could massively improve the situation, short of installing a two way cycle track.

If there was an opportunity to use a flashing yellow arrow against a bike lane, I would be fine with that (though I'd prefer a combo bike/ped signal). However, at least in Washington, only protected turns are allowed against cycle tracks (or at least that's all that's been used). I have never seen a protected-permissive turn against a cycle track.

By the way, your link is false advertising. No one died ;-). And it looks more like the car that was trying to go left was actually trying to park. They were turning far too sharp just to be turning left.
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1727 on: June 15, 2018, 11:36:45 AM »

Couple other notes on that signal:

1) The right turn head may be in violation of MUTCD 4D.13 Paragraph 07.  Can't tell for sure, but based on Streetview it looks like they swapped out one of the through heads.

For an entirely different set of reasons, I actually have a picture of the old signal setup, and you are correct.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 11:38:59 AM by MNHighwayMan »
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TBKS1

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1728 on: June 16, 2018, 06:24:30 PM »



A weird/broken signal (Saint Louis, Missouri) by TheInstrumentalist, on Flickr

Saint Louis, Missouri - I took this about 2 weeks ago. This just looks weird.
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traffic light guy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1729 on: June 16, 2018, 10:46:37 PM »



A weird/broken signal (Saint Louis, Missouri) by TheInstrumentalist, on Flickr

Saint Louis, Missouri - I took this about 2 weeks ago. This just looks weird.

Yeah, the visors are missing, this makes the signal look flat and cartoony
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SR 228

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1730 on: June 17, 2018, 01:36:47 AM »

Found this really odd U-shaped signal in Brazil, is anyone aware of how it functions? It has quite a lot of sections and has rectangular horizontal louvers.

While moving the view around in GSV and changing capture dates, I notice the sections vary in position, possibly a countdown?

GSV link: https://www.google.com/maps/@-5.7899028,-35.2051515,3a,21.4y,27.6h,100.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1svOJtRYMXd8GMkKhekmUoDQ!2e0!5s20170901T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
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Revive 755

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1731 on: June 17, 2018, 12:16:49 PM »

Came across these decorative mast arms on Streetview in Juarez, Mexico.  Link
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roadfro

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1732 on: June 17, 2018, 02:48:49 PM »

Found this really odd U-shaped signal in Brazil, is anyone aware of how it functions? It has quite a lot of sections and has rectangular horizontal louvers.

While moving the view around in GSV and changing capture dates, I notice the sections vary in position, possibly a countdown?

GSV link: https://www.google.com/maps/@-5.7899028,-35.2051515,3a,21.4y,27.6h,100.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1svOJtRYMXd8GMkKhekmUoDQ!2e0!5s20170901T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

It looks like the bottom portion of the U serves as a traditional sideways R-Y-G. From moving around in street view, it appears that the sides of the U are indeed a countdown—a second red or green ball starts somewhere up the appropriate side and gradually falls in position towards the other red/green ball at the bottom of the U, and the phase changes shortly thereafter.

That's an interesting operation, and an interesting way to provide a countdown without actually displaying numbers to the driver.
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1733 on: June 17, 2018, 06:10:47 PM »

Came across these decorative mast arms on Streetview in Juarez, Mexico.  Link


That isn't too different from decorative masts you see here in some cities like downtown Tampa. They're usually a bit more bulky and have a perfect fit around the signal here though.


For reference: https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9474157,-82.4587696,3a,75y,218.65h,97.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0aoc6nkYyn63VGIyDB1XZg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
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TBKS1

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1734 on: June 17, 2018, 06:49:27 PM »

Came across these decorative mast arms on Streetview in Juarez, Mexico.  Link


That isn't too different from decorative masts you see here in some cities like downtown Tampa. They're usually a bit more bulky and have a perfect fit around the signal here though.


For reference: https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9474157,-82.4587696,3a,75y,218.65h,97.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0aoc6nkYyn63VGIyDB1XZg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And then you have this... (Downtown Little Rock) - I've posted on this thread before



A unique stoplight by TheInstrumentalist, on Flickr
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kkt

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1735 on: June 18, 2018, 01:09:58 PM »

Came across these decorative mast arms on Streetview in Juarez, Mexico.  Link


That isn't too different from decorative masts you see here in some cities like downtown Tampa. They're usually a bit more bulky and have a perfect fit around the signal here though.


For reference: https://www.google.com/maps/@27.9474157,-82.4587696,3a,75y,218.65h,97.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0aoc6nkYyn63VGIyDB1XZg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

And then you have this... (Downtown Little Rock) - I've posted on this thread before



A unique stoplight by TheInstrumentalist, on Flickr

I wouldn't know what to do with that.  Go twice as fast?
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1736 on: June 23, 2018, 04:38:01 AM »

Three protected/permissive right-turn signal heads? Because why not.



Old view of the previous setup in GSV before the second right-turn lane was added.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 04:41:34 AM by MNHighwayMan »
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1737 on: June 23, 2018, 07:37:32 PM »

Three protected/permissive right-turn signal heads? Because why not.

https://i.imgur.com/VwNjXRL.jpg

Old view of the previous setup in GSV before the second right-turn lane was added.

Cool, I like it!

There is something similar to that near me, in Federal Way, WA, the only difference being that all right turn signals are on posts:



There's also this intersection with a doghouse overhead but towers on the side. Only one turn lane here, though:

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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1738 on: June 23, 2018, 09:42:26 PM »

Doghouses for right turns will never not be weird to me, even if they are overhead.

Of course, when I moved to Iowa I had a sort-of adjustment period seeing them all over for left-turns, too… Minnesota almost exclusively uses towers (which, of course, are now getting phased out for FYAs everywhere appropriate.)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 09:46:12 PM by MNHighwayMan »
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traffic light guy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1739 on: June 23, 2018, 09:54:43 PM »

Doghouses for right turns will never not be weird to me, even if they are overhead.

Of course, when I moved to Iowa I had a sort-of adjustment period seeing them all over for left-turns, too… Minnesota almost exclusively uses towers (which, of course, are now getting phased out for FYAs everywhere appropriate.)

Where I live, doghouses are used for right turns all the time, so they're never not normal to me
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1740 on: June 23, 2018, 11:21:16 PM »

Doghouses for right turns will never not be weird to me, even if they are overhead.

Of course, when I moved to Iowa I had a sort-of adjustment period seeing them all over for left-turns, too… Minnesota almost exclusively uses towers (which, of course, are now getting phased out for FYAs everywhere appropriate.)

Where I live, doghouses are used for right turns all the time, so they're never not normal to me

I'm kind of in between. Lots of Seattle area intersections have for 4-section right turn filters, in addition to the occasional tower or doghouse. No idea why bi-modal signals are so popular here.

Federal Way specifically takes after California quite a bit too; having doghouses overhead, and towers on the sides, is the norm there.
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traffic light guy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1741 on: June 24, 2018, 01:21:57 PM »

Doghouses for right turns will never not be weird to me, even if they are overhead.

Of course, when I moved to Iowa I had a sort-of adjustment period seeing them all over for left-turns, too… Minnesota almost exclusively uses towers (which, of course, are now getting phased out for FYAs everywhere appropriate.)

Where I live, doghouses are used for right turns all the time, so they're never not normal to me

I'm kind of in between. Lots of Seattle area intersections have for 4-section right turn filters, in addition to the occasional tower or doghouse. No idea why bi-modal signals are so popular here.

Federal Way specifically takes after California quite a bit too; having doghouses overhead, and towers on the sides, is the norm there.

4-section right turn filter, interesting, they're not used where I live either. Philly loves using 5-section towers instead of doghouses though, the suburbs on the other hand, use doghouses whenever.
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1742 on: June 24, 2018, 01:29:04 PM »

I'm kind of in between. Lots of Seattle area intersections have for 4-section right turn filters, in addition to the occasional tower or doghouse. No idea why bi-modal signals are so popular here.

Bi-modal means that one section displays two aspects, right (ie, for example, the green arrow and yellow arrow are combined into one signal lens)?

Because if so, there's a few of those around Des Moines for protected lefts. Here's an example.



That bottom section on the far left displays both the green and yellow arrow, if the protected left is activated by enough waiting vehicles. (Or, just one vehicle, if you're kind of a dick like me and wait above where the sensor loop is embedded in the turn lane, and not at the stop line!)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 01:35:46 PM by MNHighwayMan »
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SignBridge

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1743 on: June 24, 2018, 08:40:22 PM »

Those bi-modal arrows are common in New Jersey too. Many traffic engineers however believe it's better to have a separate green and yellow arrow so it's more eye catching when it changes. I agree with them.
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Brandon

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1744 on: June 24, 2018, 08:56:16 PM »



A weird/broken signal (Saint Louis, Missouri) by TheInstrumentalist, on Flickr

Saint Louis, Missouri - I took this about 2 weeks ago. This just looks weird.

Yeah, the visors are missing, this makes the signal look flat and cartoony

There's one of these that's permanently like this in Joliet, IL due to a pole in the way.

McDonough & Joyce
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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1745 on: June 24, 2018, 09:53:02 PM »

I'm kind of in between. Lots of Seattle area intersections have for 4-section right turn filters, in addition to the occasional tower or doghouse. No idea why bi-modal signals are so popular here.

Bi-modal means that one section displays two aspects, right (ie, for example, the green arrow and yellow arrow are combined into one signal lens)?

Because if so, there's a few of those around Des Moines for protected lefts. Here's an example.



That bottom section on the far left displays both the green and yellow arrow, if the protected left is activated by enough waiting vehicles. (Or, just one vehicle, if you're kind of a dick like me and wait above where the sensor loop is embedded in the turn lane, and not at the stop line!)

Why wouldn't they put it at the stop line? It's perfectly normal to let any turning traffic turn first.
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Revive 755

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1746 on: June 24, 2018, 10:02:35 PM »

McDonough & Joyce

I had been wondering if diagonal span wire had ever been done in Illinois . . .

At the McDonough/Houbolt intersection the signals use horizontal heads on all the mast arms - I am guessing this has to do with the nearby airport.
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ErmineNotyours

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1747 on: June 24, 2018, 11:36:06 PM »

Three right signals on posts at the end of the NB Exit 4 cloverleaf to West 900 off I-405 in Renton.  It looked pretty weird the first time I saw it a few years ago.

Signal hoods on a swinging light broken off by trolley guy wires, Boren & Madison, Seattle.
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1748 on: June 25, 2018, 12:10:52 AM »

I'm kind of in between. Lots of Seattle area intersections have for 4-section right turn filters, in addition to the occasional tower or doghouse. No idea why bi-modal signals are so popular here.

Bi-modal means that one section displays two aspects, right (ie, for example, the green arrow and yellow arrow are combined into one signal lens)?

Because if so, there's a few of those around Des Moines for protected lefts. Here's an example.

That bottom section on the far left displays both the green and yellow arrow, if the protected left is activated by enough waiting vehicles. (Or, just one vehicle, if you're kind of a dick like me and wait above where the sensor loop is embedded in the turn lane, and not at the stop line!)

That's the one. If you look around Snohomish County, WA, damn near every pro/per signal is bi-modal, minus those that are FYAs. Either way, lots of four-section signals!

By the way, don't wait at the sensor. Just turn in a gap or at the end. You don't need an arrow if you're the only one waiting.

Why wouldn't they put it at the stop line? It's perfectly normal to let any turning traffic turn first.

If there's only one waiting car, they probably don't need an arrow to turn. They'll find a gap or turn at the end.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 12:21:09 AM by jakeroot »
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roadfro

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #1749 on: June 25, 2018, 02:29:39 AM »

At the McDonough/Houbolt intersection the signals use horizontal heads on all the mast arms - I am guessing this has to do with the nearby airport.

I’d accept that explanation, but it seems silly when there appears to be trees taller than the mast arms all around the intersection...
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