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Author Topic: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?  (Read 67916 times)

bsmart

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2012, 09:33:05 AM »

You beat me to it!  I was driving up through the PA Dutch country yesterday (Rt 30 between York and Gettysburg is dangerous after a long day shopping and driving)  and didn't get online to post until this morning.  Here is a link to the Frederick News Post with the comments that were posted on their website
http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display_Comments.htm?section=a1&storyID=134113#postComments

I was hoping for a better article when I saw the headline (It was on the front page) It will be interesting if it draws any Letters to the Editor in the next couple weeks.  If I see any I'll let everyone know
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2012, 08:39:42 AM »

WTOP Radio: Report fuels debate for new Potomac bridge

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Supporters of a new bridge across the Potomac may have more fuel in the controversial debate.

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While Maryland and Virginia leaders say they have been talking about the possibility, others call for expanding transit options across the river as a faster and more cost-effective option to relieving congestion.

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However, the region's Transportation Planning Board just examined the demand for transit across the American Legion Bridge, and found that the demand simply may not exist between the Interstate 270 and Dulles corridors. The Planning Board points to a previous Metrobus route (Metrobus 14 service) across the bridge that was ultimately canceled because of low ridership.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2012, 03:57:02 PM »

Dr. Gridlock (Robert Thomson) in the Washington Post: Potomac bridge: Not in your commuting lifetime
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2012, 11:24:23 AM »

WAMU Radio: From A To B: New Potomac River Bridge Talks Continue

And GreaterGreaterWashington's response to this report: WAMU missteps with one-sided Outer Beltway story
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2012, 04:16:43 PM »

Out of Control: Washington Outer Beltway and I-495 BRT Have Benefits

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Last Week transportation reporter Martin Di Caro of Metro Connection received a dressing down by David Alpert of Greater Greater Washington. Alpert argued in a column that Di Caro’s transportation article was one sided. Specifically, Alpert took notion with the idea that an Outer Beltway or other arterial highway could solve congestion in the Washington area. Other environmental and smart growth advocates issued similar critiques.

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Alpert accurately highlighted some of the shortcomings of the article. He was honest in noting that all of his articles are opinions and in detailing the difference between editorials and objective news coverage. I also agree with him about the quality of transportation coverage. Washington DC is fortunate to have dedicated, knowledgeable transportation reporters such as Robert Thompson of the Washington Post. But transportation is not as big a priority as issues such as taxes or defense. Sometimes transportation beat reporters are just passing through to other more lucrative positions. Most of the DC media tries very hard to offer balanced transportation coverage; but transportation is often the red headed stepchild.
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NE2

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2012, 04:41:40 PM »

"Out of Control" is, for the record, the blog of the "Reason Foundation", a bunch of right-wing loonies.
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Beltway

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2012, 04:44:41 PM »

"Out of Control" is, for the record, the blog of the "Reason Foundation", a bunch of right-wing loonies.

You can't refute the message, so you attack the messenger...
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NE2

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2012, 04:53:39 PM »

I don't know what the message is, because I don't choose to read the rantings of idiots.
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Alps

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2012, 07:42:24 PM »

Right, left, purple, I want my news coming from established sources, not .orgs and tollroadsblog.

Beltway

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2012, 09:41:34 PM »

I don't know what the message is, because I don't choose to read the rantings of idiots.

Then that means that you don't read your own posts...
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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2012, 12:23:38 AM »

I don't know what the message is, because I don't choose to read the rantings of idiots.

Then that means that you don't read your own posts...
He didn't say geniuses.

NE2

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2012, 01:11:19 AM »

Insert self deprecation here.
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qguy

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2012, 02:00:33 PM »

Right, left, purple, I want my news coming from established sources, not .orgs and tollroadsblog.

Orgs and blogs do have their viewpoints which color their commentary, but if by "established sources" you mean "objective sources," there aren't any. There's no such thing as an objective source of news. All news sources have a bias; some simply don't own up to it.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2012, 12:03:08 PM »

"Out of Control" is, for the record, the blog of the "Reason Foundation", a bunch of right-wing loonies.

Reason is generally skeptical of taxpayer-funded rail transit projects, and, for that matter, taxpayer-funded highway projects too.

They are pro-free-market, not "conservative." I don't think they advocate for "conservative" social policies, for instance.
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oscar

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2012, 01:22:54 PM »

"Out of Control" is, for the record, the blog of the "Reason Foundation", a bunch of right-wing loonies.

Reason is generally skeptical of taxpayer-funded rail transit projects, and, for that matter, taxpayer-funded highway projects too.

They are pro-free-market, not "conservative." I don't think they advocate for "conservative" social policies, for instance.

For example, Reason magazine carries a lot of stuff on drug legalization, and also has a leftward tilt on civil liberties issues.

"Libertarian" seems the best description, and libertarians don't fit neatly on the traditional left-right spectrum.

That said, the quality of Reason's work is uneven.  We've probably all read one of their annual state-by-state comparisons of highways, which is a slice-and-dice of existing data that seems geared to get them press coverage.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2012, 03:06:52 PM »

[This is related to the original subject, which is why I am bumping this thread]

Examiner: Rapid bus considered for American Legion Bridge
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #66 on: July 25, 2012, 10:05:38 PM »

WTOP Radio: Effort begins to clear bottleneck on American Legion Bridge

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Traffic congestion is not just a problem in some neighborhoods. It's a regional problem. And now there may be some cooperation on one of the biggest bottlenecks in the region: the American Legion Bridge on the Beltway that connects Virginia and Maryland.

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Within a year, the Express Lanes on the Beltway near Tysons Corner will be operational. But those lanes stop short of the American Legion Bridge and the border with Maryland, leaving the likelihood of bigger tieups there.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2012, 11:10:03 AM »

Washington Post: Fairfax, Montgomery leaders meet to talk traffic

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It was a historic first, folks agreed. Leaders from Fairfax and Montgomery counties met Wednesday to talk transportation and traffic — and work jointly on solutions to help their residents spend less time on roads so they could spend more time with loved ones.

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Roger Berliner, president of the Montgomery County Council, and Sharon Bulova, chairwoman of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, presided over the gathering, which included other board members and supervisors with special interest in transportation issues

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“We have never done this before,” Berliner (D-Potomac-Bethesda) said. “That’s something we need to change. We need to do [these] on a regular basis. We owe it to our communities.”
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2012, 10:10:20 PM »

Robert Thomson ("Doctor Gridlock") of the Washington Post: Montgomery, Fairfax look to future of Legion Bridge

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When elected leaders from Montgomery and Fairfax counties met in July for what many said was their first joint discussion of regional transportation concerns, it was only natural that the conversation focused on the American Legion Bridge. Each day, the counties use it to exchange tens of thousands of commuters.

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But the Legion Bridge tends to be less talked about and fussed over than its cousin, the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, on the other side of the Capital Beltway.

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The Wilson Bridge, part of Interstate 95, the East Coast’s Main Street, is just emerging from a major makeover that widened not only the bridge but also its approaches. The last big thing that happened to the Legion Bridge was in 2007, when it got a paint job — underneath, where nobody could see it.

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Now, with Virginia widening the west side of the Beltway for the high-occupancy toll lanes, the bridge just north of the new lanes may be in for a new round of attention. So let’s look at its history, its role in regional traffic and some visions for its future.
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Beltway

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2012, 10:36:57 PM »

Now, with Virginia widening the west side of the Beltway for the high-occupancy toll lanes, the bridge just north of the new lanes may be in for a new round of attention. So let’s look at its history, its role in regional traffic and some visions for its future.

Maryland has known for at least 6 years that the HOT lanes were coming to the Virginia Beltway. 

It's not Virginia's fault that the HOT lanes end the way that they do near VA-193 Georgetown Pike, since Maryland hasn't done anything to extend the Beltway managed lanes at least to I-270, where they could integrate with the HOV lanes on I-270.  Either one lane each way or 2 lanes each way, could make a very worthwhile managed lane facility.


« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 10:58:45 PM by Beltway »
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2012, 11:39:49 PM »

Now, with Virginia widening the west side of the Beltway for the high-occupancy toll lanes, the bridge just north of the new lanes may be in for a new round of attention. So let’s look at its history, its role in regional traffic and some visions for its future.

Maryland has known for at least 6 years that the HOT lanes were coming to the Virginia Beltway.

More than a few elected officials and civic activists in Montgomery County don't want to discuss any new river crossing capacity that might possibly improve highway access from the county or its Maryland neighbors to employment centers in Northern Virginia (including Tysons Corner and the Dulles Toll Road corridor).  That probably holds true among some members of the Montgomery County delegation to the Maryland General Assembly.

But Maryland's State Highway Administration had been studying it since 2006, though not much going on since 2009: West Side Mobility Study

Why nothing since 2009?  I don't know for certain, but I suspect money has something to do with it.

It's not Virginia's fault that the HOT lanes end the way that they do near VA-193 Georgetown Pike, since Maryland hasn't done anything to extend the Beltway managed lanes at least to I-270, where they could integrate with the HOV lanes on I-270.  Either one lane each way or 2 lanes each way, could make a very worthwhile managed lane facility.

In 2003 and 2004, the Montgomery County Planning Board and the Montgomery County Council approved an amendment to the Master Plan of Highways which added HOV lanes to the Capital Beltway between the Virginia end of the American Legion Bridge and I-270Y.  Details here (Adobe Acrobat .pdf format, 311 Kb).

The resolution does not say how many HOV lanes were approved (and it may have been left indeterminate). But traffic in HOV lanes won't flow especially fast in concurrent-flow HOV (or HOT) lanes adjacent to extremely congested general purpose lanes, and one lane each way leaves operations vulnerable to disabled vehicles and wrecks.  If the elected officials really want credible transit bus service in the corridor, then the right approach is to extend the Virginia managed lanes north to I-270Y. 

That still leaves the issue of what to do with the transition there (since the HOV lanes on I-270 and I-270Y are concurrent-flow HOV-2), and what to do with traffic on I-495 to and from Chevy Chase, Silver Spring and points east.
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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #71 on: August 19, 2012, 01:47:42 AM »

D.C. Examiner editorial (05-Aug-2012): Brace for even bigger backups on Legion Bridge

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Maryland officials are suddenly worried that traffic on the American Legion Bridge will worsen when Virginia's High Occupancy Toll lanes open next year. Twelve lanes of traffic will be forced to squeeze back into 10 upon entering the Free State. But as with their ongoing angst over long-expected military base-closings, such belated concern does not let them off the hook. In both cases, state and Montgomery County officials knew about these major traffic problems more than five years ago and did practically nothing to ameliorate their impact.

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HOT lane construction began in 2008, but plans to add new toll lanes to the Capital Beltway were underway long before the first bulldozer appeared. In 2006, the Maryland State Highway Administration launched its West Side Mobility Study "to evaluate a managed lane system connecting Virginia's HOT Study, Maryland's Capital Beltway Study, Maryland's I-270 Multi-Modal Study, and Maryland's Intercounty Connector."

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Traffic engineers knew that an expanded Beltway in Virginia would force traffic to merge into fewer lanes in Maryland, creating inevitable slowdowns on both sides of the Potomac. But Maryland made no plans to add capacity on its side of the 60-mile Beltway, even though traffic congestion in one state directly affects the other. The 2006 study included recommendations to deal with the inevitable bottleneck, including a proposal to convert High Occupancy Vehicle lanes on Interstate 270 to HOT lanes. But Maryland didn't even do that.
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Beltway

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2012, 08:16:40 AM »

[Examiner]
Traffic engineers knew that an expanded Beltway in Virginia would force traffic to merge into fewer lanes in Maryland, creating inevitable slowdowns on both sides of the Potomac. But Maryland made no plans to add capacity on its side of the 60-mile Beltway, even though traffic congestion in one state directly affects the other. The 2006 study included recommendations to deal with the inevitable bottleneck, including a proposal to convert High Occupancy Vehicle lanes on Interstate 270 to HOT lanes. But Maryland didn't even do that.

Some talk, but no actual action ... this reinforces what I said.
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Beltway

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #73 on: August 20, 2012, 04:18:02 PM »

VA I-495 HOT lanes northern terminal -- adding 2 lanes each way northward would be ideal from a traffic engineering standpoint. 

However, the right-of-way constraints on MD I-495 between the river and I-270, would make it very expensive and intrusive to add more than one lane each way, maybe it would be effectively impossible. 

Adding one managed lane each way would still be a very worthwhile improvement and extension of the managed lanes from Virginia to I-270.  Maryland needs to get moving on this project, IMHO.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: New crossings of the Potomac River between Md. and Va.?
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2012, 11:43:14 PM »

VA I-495 HOT lanes northern terminal -- adding 2 lanes each way northward would be ideal from a traffic engineering standpoint.

That's correct.

However, the right-of-way constraints on MD I-495 between the river and I-270, would make it very expensive and intrusive to add more than one lane each way, maybe it would be effectively impossible.

Intrusive in places, yes.  But at some points, the right-of-way is remarkably wide (and much wider than it is, for example, through Silver Spring).

And there are at least two golf courses that back up to the Beltway, one of which is Burning Tree Country Club, which forbids women (and is not likely to get much sympathy if the state decides it wants to condemn some of its land).   

Adding one managed lane each way would still be a very worthwhile improvement and extension of the managed lanes from Virginia to I-270.  Maryland needs to get moving on this project, IMHO.

No dispute on that, but money (or lack thereof) is a serious constraint.
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