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[roadman]

Earlier today (3/6), MassDOT opened bids on a project to replace the guide signs on Interstate 95 (MA Route 128) between Route 9 in Wellesley and Routes 4/225 in Lexington.  As with other recent MassDOT signing work of this type, both the panels and support structures will be completely replaced.

The panels on this section of I-95 were last replaced in the early 1990s, so there's no existing button copy or anything unusual (i.e. 'Parkway' embossed letters) that's going away.  Of note to some, however, is the fact that this project area includes the now infamous peeling "pull-through" sign northbound in Lexington (the sign was somehow missed during the 1990s work).  This panel will be removed but not replaced.

Assuming there are no delays in awarding the contract, actual sign and support replacement should begin sometime in late summer or early fall of 2012.

[agentsteel53]

(i.e. 'Parkway' embossed letters)

do you have a photo of this?  I don't recall what this means.

[roadman]

(i.e. 'Parkway' embossed letters)

do you have a photo of this?  I don't recall what this means.

'Parkway' lettering was a short-lived 3M product that was produced in the mid to late 1960s and was touted at the time as a less expensive alternative to button copy.   Essentially, it consisted of raised one-piece plastic letters made from early retro-reflective material (similar to today's Super Engineer Grade - or Type II - sheeting).  On close inspection, it has a similar appearance to button copy except for the absense of reflectors.

It was used on a handful of overhead sign installations in Massachusetts (including MA Route 128 in the Wellesley and Waltham areas) in the late 1960s and early 1970s before 3M's encapsulated lens sheeting (now known as high intensity - or Type III) became the industry norm.  As I noted, all the signs on 128 with 'Parkway' legend were replaced during the 1990s update project.

Somewhere in my archives I have some old 3M 'Parkway' lettering sales brochures.  If I get a chance, I'll dig them out and scan them for posting to the group.

[PurdueBill]

Too bad that it sounds like a goodly amount of button copy I-shields will go away.  Last spring I was in Boston for several days and managed to catch a local news investigative report about replacement of signs that didn't appear to need replacing yet; MassDOT's response on camera was that they got the money to replace the signs so they might as well spend it.  (There may be more actual need than that but they didn't say so very well.  They made it sound like they were basically spending stimulus money that was thrown at them.)  Except for the pull-through that is peeling, the signs in question are in good shape and no doubt the public may be wondering why they are being replaced when there appear to be more urgent needs.

Assuming that signage on intersecting roads and places like the C-D Exits 23-24-25 northbound section of original MA 128 get new signs, it will be the end of these beauties.  Pity.

[KEVIN_224]

Is that last picture from Recreation Road or whatever?

[agentsteel53]

'Parkway' lettering was a short-lived 3M product that was produced in the mid to late 1960s and was touted at the time as a less expensive alternative to button copy.   Essentially, it consisted of raised one-piece plastic letters made from early retro-reflective material (similar to today's Super Engineer Grade - or Type II - sheeting).  On close inspection, it has a similar appearance to button copy except for the absense of reflectors.

It was used on a handful of overhead sign installations in Massachusetts (including MA Route 128 in the Wellesley and Waltham areas) in the late 1960s and early 1970s before 3M's encapsulated lens sheeting (now known as high intensity - or Type III) became the industry norm.  As I noted, all the signs on 128 with 'Parkway' legend were replaced during the 1990s update project.

Somewhere in my archives I have some old 3M 'Parkway' lettering sales brochures.  If I get a chance, I'll dig them out and scan them for posting to the group.

I had no idea that stuff was called "Parkway".  I believe Virginia used it as well in the 60s.  it is aluminum forms covered in Engineer Grade scotchlite, if I recall correctly?  and it is the same standard fonts as button copy (namely EM and subtle variants thereof)

[PurdueBill]

Is that last picture from Recreation Road or whatever?

Yes, Recreation Rd. over the onetime mainline lanes that became NB C-D road for Exits 23-24-25.  It wasn't a bad place to get a somewhat unique view of the particular-to-Mass. button copy shields on otherwise reflective signs.

It also was a good example of how they would mix shields with button copy numerals only and shields with button copy numerals AND outlines, sometimes on the same assembly of signs (but never on the same sign as far as I ever saw).

The pics are from August 2010. 

[roadman]

Too bad that it sounds like a goodly amount of button copy I-shields will go away.  Last spring I was in Boston for several days and managed to catch a local news investigative report about replacement of signs that didn't appear to need replacing yet; MassDOT's response on camera was that they got the money to replace the signs so they might as well spend it.  (There may be more actual need than that but they didn't say so very well.  They made it sound like they were basically spending stimulus money that was thrown at them.)  Except for the pull-through that is peeling, the signs in question are in good shape and no doubt the public may be wondering why they are being replaced when there appear to be more urgent needs.

Assuming that signage on intersecting roads and places like the C-D Exits 23-24-25 northbound section of original MA 128 get new signs, it will be the end of these beauties.  Pity.

The news report in question aired on the local FOX station last May.  Here's the link:

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/undercover/state-spending-22m-on-signs-20110512

Most of the report focuses on the now completed re-signing project on I-95 between Lexington and Reading.  Note that, prior to this project, the panels in this area were last replaced in the early 1990s, and the structures dated from the mid-1970s.

And thanks for the clarification - I forgot to mention that the button copy numeral Interstate shields will indeed go away when these panels are replaced.  Current MassDOT standards still require demountable numerals on overhead-mounted Interstate shields.  However, the numerals are now fabricated from high-intensity prismatic (HIP) sheeting instead of button copy.

[roadman]

I had no idea that stuff was called "Parkway".  I believe Virginia used it as well in the 60s.  it is aluminum forms covered in Engineer Grade scotchlite, if I recall correctly?  and it is the same standard fonts as button copy (namely EM and subtle variants thereof)

Yes, I stand corrected - it was made from aluminum forms, not plastic.  And it was produced in standard fonts (Em, etc) like button copy.

[PurdueBill]

The news report in question aired on the local FOX station last May.  Here's the link:

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/undercover/state-spending-22m-on-signs-20110512

Most of the report focuses on the now completed re-signing project on I-95 between Lexington and Reading.  Note that, prior to this project, the panels in this area were last replaced in the early 1990s, and the structures dated from the mid-1970s.

That's the one!  I was in town for four days and managed to see that report while I was there.  (I grew up there but the fun button copy shields didn't hit until just as I was going away to college.)  The comparison at 1:40 of the video between old and new sign is interesting....the old one isn't much less reflective than the new one.  The comments by the motorist are probably typical of what a lot of people are thinking--what is wrong with the old signs that requires they be replaced when there are more pressing needs?  (Not arguing that myself up or down--just thinking about what John and Jane Q. Motorist must be thinking.)

[cpzilliacus]

'Parkway' lettering was a short-lived 3M product that was produced in the mid to late 1960s and was touted at the time as a less expensive alternative to button copy.   Essentially, it consisted of raised one-piece plastic letters made from early retro-reflective material (similar to today's Super Engineer Grade - or Type II - sheeting).  On close inspection, it has a similar appearance to button copy except for the absense of reflectors.

It was used on a handful of overhead sign installations in Massachusetts (including MA Route 128 in the Wellesley and Waltham areas) in the late 1960s and early 1970s before 3M's encapsulated lens sheeting (now known as high intensity - or Type III) became the industry norm.  As I noted, all the signs on 128 with 'Parkway' legend were replaced during the 1990s update project.

Somewhere in my archives I have some old 3M 'Parkway' lettering sales brochures.  If I get a chance, I'll dig them out and scan them for posting to the group.

I had no idea that stuff was called "Parkway".  I believe Virginia used it as well in the 60s.  it is aluminum forms covered in Engineer Grade scotchlite, if I recall correctly?  and it is the same standard fonts as button copy (namely EM and subtle variants thereof)

I believe much of the "original" signage on the Capital Beltway (circa 1964) in Maryland featured this.  Never knew it was called Parkway.

[Alps]

Current MassDOT standards still require demountable numerals on overhead-mounted Interstate shields.  However, the numerals are now fabricated from high-intensity prismatic (HIP) sheeting instead of button copy.

Is that because of the whole I-95, I-93 thing? What a strange requirement.

[roadman]

Current MassDOT standards still require demountable numerals on overhead-mounted Interstate shields.  However, the numerals are now fabricated from high-intensity prismatic (HIP) sheeting instead of button copy.

Is that because of the whole I-95, I-93 thing? What a strange requirement.

The Massachusetts requirement for separate numerals on overhead Interstate shields was initially adopted in the early 1980s.  At the time, MassDPW was having some very serious problems with the silk-screen Interstate shields on overhead signs prematurely fading, which in several cases made the numbers illegible at night.  The change to demountable numerals seems to have solved this issue.

Since button copy had been discontinued since the mid-1990s, the specification has since revised to specify the use of HIP sheeting demountable numbers instead of button copy for these shields.

And, as noted in a previous post, some current Interstate shields on existing signs along I-95 (MA 128) and connecting roads in the Weston and Waltham area do have both button copy numbers and outlines.  Button copy outlines were never a requirement of the Massachusetts specifications, but instead reflects the use of "off-the shelf" Interstate shields that were provided by the sign fabricator at the time.

[SidS1045]

Of note to some, however, is the fact that this project area includes the now infamous peeling "pull-through" sign northbound in Lexington (the sign was somehow missed during the 1990s work).  This panel will be removed but not replaced.

Massachusetts seems to have something against pull-throughs.  With the exception of the Turnpike, now a part of MassDOT but formerly its own agency, I see only a small handful of them on Massachusetts highways.

[PHLBOS]

Of note to some, however, is the fact that this project area includes the now infamous peeling "pull-through" sign northbound in Lexington (the sign was somehow missed during the 1990s work).  This panel will be removed but not replaced.

Massachusetts seems to have something against pull-throughs.  With the exception of the Turnpike, now a part of MassDOT but formerly its own agency, I see only a small handful of them on Massachusetts highways.

I believe the lack of newer pull-through signs has more to do w/MUTCD not requiring them at all interchanges.

Actually, some of the newer interchange signage along the Pike erected within the last 10 years have no pull-through signs either (Exits 10A, 11 & 13 being 3 examples).

PennDOT and the PTC (Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission) does similar.  Case and point: there's not one pull-through sign ANYWHERE along freeway (Blue Route) section of I-476 South.

[Beeper1]

The MassPike only has pull throughs at the major interchanges.  Exit 4 (I-91), Exit 6 (I-291), Exit 9 (I-84), Exit 10 (I-395/290), Exit 11A (I-495), and at the toll plaza Exits 1 (MA-41), 14/15 (I-95), 18/20 (Cambridge)

[PHLBOS]

The MassPike only has pull throughs at the major interchanges.  Exit 4 (I-91), Exit 6 (I-291), Exit 9 (I-84), Exit 10 (I-395/290), Exit 11A (I-495), and at the toll plaza Exits 1 (MA-41), 14/15 (I-95), 18/20 (Cambridge)

I know, but it used to have pull-through signs at ALL of the interchanges west of I-95 (Route 128).

Earlier today (3/6), MassDOT opened bids on a project to replace the guide signs on Interstate 95 (MA Route 128) between Route 9 in Wellesley and Routes 4/225 in Lexington.  As with other recent MassDOT signing work of this type, both the panels and support structures will be completely replaced.

The panels on this section of I-95 were last replaced in the early 1990s.

Actually most of the signage at Exits 27A-B was erected within the last 2 to 3 years when the interchange was redone and a replacement, higher-clearance overpass was constructed.  Will these be replaced as well?  Kind of a waste IMHO unless the sign messages contained errors.

Of note to some, however, is the fact that this project area includes the now infamous peeling "pull-through" sign northbound in Lexington (the sign was somehow missed during the 1990s work).

I remember when that sign when was first erected in the early 80s; when it was new, it was a very good-looking sign in terms of spacing, proper lettering and numeral fonts and their respective sizes.  This sign is probably one of the last MassDPW signage for I-95 still standing that used "NH - Maine" as a control destination.  North of Canton, the listed distant (or 2nd) destination for I-95 North is now "Portsmouth NH" except for the exit signs off the Pike.

It's worth noting that in the first 2 pics. those size of those shields are a bit small for the button-copy numerals.  The shields should've been a little larger IMHO.

The signs in the 3rd pic are an example of a half-a**ed (IMHO) maneuver on then-MassHighway's part regarding signage replacement projects.  The I-90 signage was erected roughly 2-to-3 years earlier than the adjacent MA 30/I-95 North signage.  The earlier signage project involved replacing ALL guidance signage along I-95 EXCEPT for the exit signs directing those to I-95 (between Exits 21 through 28)  and any pull-through signage.  Many of those older signs, the ones erected in the early 1970s still contained just MA 128 listings, were left untouched.  I guess MassHighway at the time was still debating whether or not to include MA 128 shields on the new sign panels next to the I-95 shields.

When the new signs were eventually erected, the difference in button-copy I-shields aside; one could clearly see that these signs had a slightly different appearance in terms of colors when placed next to their 2 to 3 year older sign siblings.  IMHO, the newer button-copy I-95 signs with the button-copy borders look a lot better.

[roadman]

PhilBos.  Thanks for your follow up observations.

The signs recently installed in Waltham as part of the Winter Street interchange rebuild will indeed be retained under the Wellesley to Lexington re-signing project.

Note that MassHighway discontinued the use of "NH-Maine" as a northbound control destination on signs in the early 1990s at the request of FHWA.  Portamouth NH is now the accepted control city.  This is why some of the present signs in the Weston and Waltham areas weren't installed until 2-3 years after most of the other ones were, because this control city change was requested by FHWA just after the 1991 re-signing contract had been let, but before the signs were fabricated.

Since about 2004, newer overhead guide signs installed in Massachusetts are fabricated from high intensity prismatic sheeting, as opposed to the older high intensity sheeting (you can tell these newer signs at a glance because they have full height exit number tabs).  When viewed at certain angles in daylight conditions, the green color of HIP has a different tint than the older H/I sheeting.  This is why the Winter Street signs look different than the other ones on this section of I-95.

Lastly, Massachusetts policy since the late 1980s has been not to use pull thru signs except at those locations where the through route is not apparent to the driver.  This is per FHWA direction and is consistent with MUTCD guidance since the 1988 edition.  However, as the 2009 MUTCD has relaxed the restrictions for using pull-thru signs (it now puts greater emphasis on route guidance as opposed to roadway geometry), it's my understanding that MassDOT may be re-evaluating this policy.  While it's highly doubtful we'll see a return to the days where there was a pull-through sign at evey interchange along roads like MA 128, I suspect we wil be seeing more such signs in the future.

[PHLBOS]

Note that MassHighway discontinued the use of "NH-Maine" as a northbound control destination on signs in the early 1990s at the request of FHWA.  Portamouth NH is now the accepted control city.  This is why some of the present signs in the Weston and Waltham areas weren't installed until 2-3 years after most of the other ones were, because this control city change was requested by FHWA just after the 1991 re-signing contract had been let, but before the signs were fabricated.

That explains the delay in northbound signage but one could argue that the southbound signage (w/Providence RI as its either distant or 2nd control destination) should've been erected with the earlier signs.  I guess MassHighway wanted to do the all the applicable I-95 exit signs in one shot.

It's worth noting that ramp and guidance (at the rotaries and signalized intersections) signage for MA 128 south in the Gloucester area still list "NH-MAINE" as its 2nd control destination and I believe the signs in question are of the 90s vintage (that feature the square shields for the route numbers vs. just white numerals).  I'll have to recheck the next time I'm up there and have a little time.

Personally (I had a hunch that the FHWA was behind the change), I would've kept the "NH-Maine" as the 2nd control destination along I-95 North up to the MA 4/225 interchange (Exit 31A-B) then switched over to "Portsmouth NH" at the US 3 North interchange (Exit 32A).

[connroadgeek]

The MassPike only has pull throughs at the major interchanges.  Exit 4 (I-91), Exit 6 (I-291), Exit 9 (I-84), Exit 10 (I-395/290), Exit 11A (I-495), and at the toll plaza Exits 1 (MA-41), 14/15 (I-95), 18/20 (Cambridge)

We don't have many pull-throughs in Conn. either. I think it is a function of the amount of signage. Pull-throughs are extraneous. In places/states where the interchanges are spaced closely, there really isn't a place for pull-throughs. Coming northbound on I-95 from the NY state line, I don't think there is a single pull-through until New Haven (at mile marker 47). Going the other way, I think there is a pull-through for NY City in the Norwalk area, and that's about it south of New Haven. Other states have pull-through-itis where every couple of miles there is a pull-through if there is an overhead assembly to mount it and the next exit miles away. After the last couple of signing projects it seems pull-throughs weren't replaced. In fact, you can still see the vestiges of where pull-throughs once existed on the overhead assemblies (used to even be some lights remaining mounted with no sign - now that's a blast from the past). A logical control city that isn't is Bridgeport (Connecticut's most populous city).

[PurdueBill]

Here is a better view of a fully-outlined shield (with Portsmouth along for the ride), looking straight at the sign instead of at an angle.  I think that the button copy shield on an otherwise reflective sign is a very good look and I'll miss it.  (It's sorta the opposite of what most button copy states had, and even what the Mass Pike Boston Extension's 90s signs have--button copy everywhere BUT shields.)  As states like New York, Ohio, and Connecticut (among others) that commonly used button copy numerals in I-shields also used the button copy outlines, I think the outline-less ones like the 90 and 95 shields above look a little weird, but I still appreciate the button copy.  It has character.....



This particular sign is/was north of the project in question, at route 38--maybe it's gone now?  If it is, I'm glad I got a pic of it when I did.

[shadyjay]

Coming northbound on I-95 from the NY state line, I don't think there is a single pull-through until New Haven (at mile marker 47). Going the other way, I think there is a pull-through for NY City in the Norwalk area, and that's about it south of New Haven. Other states have pull-through-itis where every couple of miles there is a pull-through if there is an overhead assembly to mount it and the next exit miles away. After the last couple of signing projects it seems pull-throughs weren't replaced. In fact, you can still see the vestiges of where pull-throughs once existed on the overhead assemblies (used to even be some lights remaining mounted with no sign - now that's a blast from the past). A logical control city that isn't is Bridgeport (Connecticut's most populous city).

Actually, the first pullthrough NB on I-95 in CT is at Exit 16 in Norwalk - actually on the same exact gantry as the last SB pullthrough.  After that, there's one in Bridgeport at Exit 28, then nothing until New Haven. 

I like New Haven as a control city as its a major destination and a junction of I-95 and I-91.  It's a lot better than the original turnpike control points "NEW YORK AND WEST" and "RHODE ISLAND AND EAST". 

And I still miss the I-95 Mass control point of "NH-MAINE".  I remember signs on I-95 NB approaching "128" which had control points for I-95 as "DEDHAM / NH-MAINE", with a 128 shield displayed prominently right next to the I-95 shield on the same overhead sign.  Now if you want NH-MAINE control points, you gotta go to the Mass Pike. 

[Ian]

And I still miss the I-95 Mass control point of "NH-MAINE".  I remember signs on I-95 NB approaching "128" which had control points for I-95 as "DEDHAM / NH-MAINE", with a 128 shield displayed prominently right next to the I-95 shield on the same overhead sign.  Now if you want NH-MAINE control points, you gotta go to the Mass Pike. 

Speaking of the Mass Pike signs, once those are replaced, will the signs for exit 11A (I-495) and exit 14 (I-95/MA 128) still list "NH-Maine" as a control city? If not, what do you think they might use?

[shadyjay]

Speaking of the Mass Pike signs, once those are replaced, will the signs for exit 11A (I-495) and exit 14 (I-95/MA 128) still list "NH-Maine" as a control city? If not, what do you think they might use?

I would hope that NH-Maine last longer because the 'pike is more of a long-distance route (because of its widely-spaced exits, vs I-95 or I-495), but if they were to fall, I'd guess Portsmouth NH would be a suitable fit for the Exit 11A EB signs (and WB should be Lowell).  The question also should be asked:  is Cape Cod a legal control city anymore?  We saw what happened in NYC when New England and Upstate were replaced with New Haven CT and Albany.   And while we're at it, will "TO ALL MAINE POINTS" on I-95 in Portsmouth be replaced with "PORTLAND"?   

[Ian]

And while we're at it, will "TO ALL MAINE POINTS" on I-95 in Portsmouth be replaced with "PORTLAND"?  

It appears that "Maine Points" (along with "NH Lakes" and "White Mts") managed to make it onto this relatively recent sign: