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Author Topic: State Highway Turnback  (Read 5258 times)

mcdonaat

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State Highway Turnback
« on: May 27, 2012, 11:30:21 PM »

To give you some background: I've been requesting maps from the Louisiana DOTD for a while, and they've supplied them to me (Historic maps from 1930's to now). I accidentally clicked Parent Directory instead of the PDF file, and it flew me into a mess of folders.

Clicking in a certain folder, I found a PDF map titled: RIGHT-SIZING THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM.

It shows the current routes, and a list of routes that are either eligible for turnback into parish roads (which had been done in 1955 with the renumbering), or are to be kept for state use. It's kind of interesting, because some routes are slated to be trimmed enough that they will be renumbered... AGAIN!

Any comments?  :hmmm:

Brian556

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2012, 12:01:13 AM »

In Texas, Farm to Market roads were built to "get the farmer out of the mud"; meaning to provide quality roads in rural areas where there otherwise would be none.
When these FM roads are in areas that transformed from rural to suburban, the fact that they are under state maintenance becomes more of a hinderance than help. This is because TxDOT is short on funding and cannot widen them to accomodate the higher traffic volumes in a timely manner. Some local cities, Plano especially, have opted to take these roads from the state so that they can widen them quicker and maintain them in the way that they see fit.

It does make sense to "change with the times", and regularly re-evaluate based on changed conditions such as traffic volume, urbanization, or counties or cities being better able to maintain roads to a higher standard than they could before.
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Urban Prairie Schooner

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2012, 01:04:19 AM »

Clicking in a certain folder, I found a PDF map titled: RIGHT-SIZING THE STATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM.

It shows the current routes, and a list of routes that are either eligible for turnback into parish roads (which had been done in 1955 with the renumbering), or are to be kept for state use. It's kind of interesting, because some routes are slated to be trimmed enough that they will be renumbered... AGAIN!

Any comments?  :hmmm:

Someone's been reading my master's thesis. :sombrero:

The number of roads that were turned back either in 1955 or previously (at least since the state system mileage peak in the 1930s) have still not reduced the state system to a size which has been considered an appropriate level of management. State route mileage was, as of 1953, 14,141 maintained miles and ~20,000 designated miles (Louisiana's Highway Problem, Automobile Safety Foundation, 1954). This is compared with 16,675 or so miles today (statutory maximum per LRS 48:191) - no decrease whatsoever to the base system, factoring in mileage additions for interstates and relocations of major highways since that time.

I would be interested in seeing these route turnback maps if possible.
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cenlaroads

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2012, 07:35:59 PM »


I would be interested in seeing these route turnback maps if possible.

As would I.

If DOTD plans to turn back unnecessary highways, they would do well to stop creating them.  Just today I saw that a new route (LA 1262) had been created in Lake Charles.
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mcdonaat

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2012, 02:06:01 AM »


I would be interested in seeing these route turnback maps if possible.

As would I.

If DOTD plans to turn back unnecessary highways, they would do well to stop creating them.  Just today I saw that a new route (LA 1262) had been created in Lake Charles.
La 1262? Weird...the state jumped over La. 1259-1261 on that one. Betcha anything that La 1262 is a bypassed alignment... Oh well. Guess that's another Wikipedia article!!
I'm not so sure about distributing the maps, but snapshots can be taken of any area you want!! La. 524 is getting axed, and so is La 181 out of Cheneyville.

austrini

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2012, 09:54:59 AM »

Florida did this big time in 1977, and turned over the state-secondary highway system, and some primary roads, to the counties. So you've got a lot of county roads numbered in sequence with the state highways (COOL). I always thought Louisiana had a lot of state highways.

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Urban Prairie Schooner

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2012, 10:10:44 AM »

Quote
La 1262? Weird...the state jumped over La. 1259-1261 on that one. Betcha anything that La 1262 is a bypassed alignment... Oh well. Guess that's another Wikipedia article!!
I'm not so sure about distributing the maps, but snapshots can be taken of any area you want!! La. 524 is getting axed, and so is La 181 out of Cheneyville.

LA 1262 is a former portion of LA 385 in Lake Charles; it appears that a segment of LA 385 through downtown Lake Charles was returned to the city, so the remaining northern segment up to I-10 was renumbered.

I'm sure 1259 thru 1261 are in use somewhere - the parish maps on the DOTD website were recently updated so they should turn up. I know that LA 1263 was assigned to old LA 10 in St. Francisville leading to the former ferry landing.
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mcdonaat

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2012, 04:27:52 PM »

Quote
La 1262? Weird...the state jumped over La. 1259-1261 on that one. Betcha anything that La 1262 is a bypassed alignment... Oh well. Guess that's another Wikipedia article!!
I'm not so sure about distributing the maps, but snapshots can be taken of any area you want!! La. 524 is getting axed, and so is La 181 out of Cheneyville.

LA 1262 is a former portion of LA 385 in Lake Charles; it appears that a segment of LA 385 through downtown Lake Charles was returned to the city, so the remaining northern segment up to I-10 was renumbered.

I'm sure 1259 thru 1261 are in use somewhere - the parish maps on the DOTD website were recently updated so they should turn up. I know that LA 1263 was assigned to old LA 10 in St. Francisville leading to the former ferry landing.
Actually... LA 1258 is the old La 10 in St. Francisville, from the last time I checked. The state does jump over some numbers here and there, for reasons unknown as of yet.

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2012, 04:35:00 PM »

The state does jump over some numbers here and there, for reasons unknown as of yet.

a reserved number for a future renumbering? 
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cenlaroads

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2012, 04:38:24 PM »

I'm sure 1259 thru 1261 are in use somewhere - the parish maps on the DOTD website were recently updated so they should turn up. I know that LA 1263 was assigned to old LA 10 in St. Francisville leading to the former ferry landing.

I hadn't noticed those updated maps, thanks for the heads up!

Actually... LA 1258 is the old La 10 in St. Francisville, from the last time I checked. The state does jump over some numbers here and there, for reasons unknown as of yet.

I haven't been on that road since before the new bridge opened.  Google maps calls it LA 1258, but DOTD's updated West Feliciana map says 1263.  Has anyone verified this in the field?
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mcdonaat

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2012, 04:45:22 PM »

I've seen it signed as LA 1258... I was the one who made the Wikipedia article, and it's unique in that the LA 1258 article is the ONLY one with a black-and-white shield, since it was created post-shield changing. Let me know if LA 1263 is actually true, and I'll change the Wikipedia article, and even the Google Maps entry.

Urban Prairie Schooner

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2012, 05:17:36 PM »

I've seen it signed as LA 1258... I was the one who made the Wikipedia article, and it's unique in that the LA 1258 article is the ONLY one with a black-and-white shield, since it was created post-shield changing. Let me know if LA 1263 is actually true, and I'll change the Wikipedia article, and even the Google Maps entry.

Methinks someone at DOTD either made a mapping or signing boo-boo, one or the other. I'm inclined to say the maps are wrong and they were printed before a number was settled upon, but otherwise :confused:
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mcdonaat

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2012, 07:24:07 PM »

Maybe a mapping error was made, the LaDOTD people I have talked to refer to the road as La 1258. It's a mapping error!

Urban Prairie Schooner

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2012, 01:40:42 PM »

Got my hands on these maps finally.

Much more turnback in urban areas than even I expected, but a good number of seemingly superfluous rural roads remain. It appears that the operative theory was to keep most if not all rural collector routes on the state system in order to not overly burden the rural parishes. On the other hand, all but the most important through routes are proposed for turnback in the cities. Examples of roads removed that shocked me: LA 59 (all), LA 21 (Madisonville to Covington), LA 48/US 90 (Jefferson Hwy. and S. Claiborne Ave. from LA 50 in St. Rose to I-10 in New Orleans).

To note, as was reiterated to me, the maps are merely a working draft and parish participation is strictly voluntary.
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bassoon1986

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 07:26:42 PM »

^^^^

Wow! those are huge stretches of urban highways being removed
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Hot Rod Hootenanny

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2012, 10:01:42 PM »

Got my hands on these maps finally.

Much more turnback in urban areas than even I expected, but a good number of seemingly superfluous rural roads remain. It appears that the operative theory was to keep most if not all rural collector routes on the state system in order to not overly burden the rural parishes. On the other hand, all but the most important through routes are proposed for turnback in the cities. Examples of roads removed that shocked me: LA 59 (all), LA 21 (Madisonville to Covington), LA 48/US 90 (Jefferson Hwy. and S. Claiborne Ave. from LA 50 in St. Rose to I-10 in New Orleans).

To note, as was reiterated to me, the maps are merely a working draft and parish participation is strictly voluntary.
Is LaDOTD going to reroute US 90 through New Orleans, or leave a hole in the route?
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Urban Prairie Schooner

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2012, 10:13:24 PM »

Got my hands on these maps finally.

Much more turnback in urban areas than even I expected, but a good number of seemingly superfluous rural roads remain. It appears that the operative theory was to keep most if not all rural collector routes on the state system in order to not overly burden the rural parishes. On the other hand, all but the most important through routes are proposed for turnback in the cities. Examples of roads removed that shocked me: LA 59 (all), LA 21 (Madisonville to Covington), LA 48/US 90 (Jefferson Hwy. and S. Claiborne Ave. from LA 50 in St. Rose to I-10 in New Orleans).

To note, as was reiterated to me, the maps are merely a working draft and parish participation is strictly voluntary.
Is LaDOTD going to reroute US 90 through New Orleans, or leave a hole in the route?

The maps don't show how routes are to retain continuity, but I assume if all the planned roadways were turned back, US 90 would be rerouted via the Westbank Expressway and I-10 to the Louisa Street exit where it would turn north to rejoin its route (the route along Broad Avenue, New Orleans/Allen Streets, Gentilly Boulevard, and Chef Menteur Highway to Louisa is also proposed for turnback - the short connecting stretch of Louisa Street would be added in the process.)
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Hot Rod Hootenanny

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2012, 10:51:29 PM »

Got my hands on these maps finally.

Much more turnback in urban areas than even I expected, but a good number of seemingly superfluous rural roads remain. It appears that the operative theory was to keep most if not all rural collector routes on the state system in order to not overly burden the rural parishes. On the other hand, all but the most important through routes are proposed for turnback in the cities. Examples of roads removed that shocked me: LA 59 (all), LA 21 (Madisonville to Covington), LA 48/US 90 (Jefferson Hwy. and S. Claiborne Ave. from LA 50 in St. Rose to I-10 in New Orleans).

To note, as was reiterated to me, the maps are merely a working draft and parish participation is strictly voluntary.
Is LaDOTD going to reroute US 90 through New Orleans, or leave a hole in the route?

The maps don't show how routes are to retain continuity, but I assume if all the planned roadways were turned back, US 90 would be rerouted via the Westbank Expressway and I-10 to the Louisa Street exit where it would turn north to rejoin its route (the route along Broad Avenue, New Orleans/Allen Streets, Gentilly Boulevard, and Chef Menteur Highway to Louisa is also proposed for turnback - the short connecting stretch of Louisa Street would be added in the process.)

How far back would US 61 get truncated? Carrollton & I-10?
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mcdonaat

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Re: State Highway Turnback
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2012, 03:20:20 AM »

I'd say that US 61 won't get truncated at all. Route truncations aren't really something that the DOTD does...most of the time, routes are extended, combined into a single number, or completely deleted. The US highway system still retains the same system, with US routes being extended in parts along state routes (US 190 took over the western part of La 7 through Opelousas, US 51 ends at US 61 instead of following it, and US 65 ends at LA 15 instead of following it). People here like to follow a route for a reason, and for most, US highways are used to get somewhere.

 


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