Wisconsin notes

[mgk920]

Remember that the locals WILL know their ways around local blockages, too.

Mike

[Molandfreak]

Remember that the locals WILL know their ways around local blockages, too.

The alt routes aren't signed for locals.

[TheCatalyst31]

Google would still mark it as ALT 53, so there would be no real navigational difference if they got rid of Business 53. In fact, it could make the situation worse.

ALT 53 is also signed as a permanent detour route, so drivers could probably figure that out. Though I do wish Google Maps didn't treat those like real routes.

Yeah, the point is that it would probably continue to be signed along the business loop unless the rest of the detour were to be eliminated, which I don't think would be a wise decision.

The alternative routes should probably be resigned with the orange signage that has recently been installed in the Stevens Point area. The Google algorithm probably recognizes that the alternate routes have consistent signage, but can't determine that it doesn't mean that they are full bannered routes people might follow under normal circumstances. Now you have the alternate route marked along STH-124, STH-29 Business, STH-312, and STH-93, so the hodgepodge of directions you could get in Eau Claire could easily get confusing. And that's not even getting into the situation in Milwaukee with multiple alternates for US 45.

On the other hand, I would say that marking US 2 ALT in Ashland is appropriate since it seems to be the preferred designation that locals refer to it. This dates back to before STH-112 was signed on Sanborn Avenue in the area, so it was technically signed as an independent route along that section.

Michigan uses the orange signage for their emergency routes, which are basically the same thing, and I like it a lot better than what Wisconsin does.

[peterj920]

The alternate signage seems to be everywhere except in Northeast Wisconsin. I-41 and I-43 don't have alternate routes posted north of Oshkosh and Sheboygan.

County DL, CR, and R are easy alternate routes for I-43. I-41 has frontage roads but they're signed as alternates south of Milwaukee. Does the Northeast Region not care to have alternate routes compared to the other regions?

[Big John]

^^ There is an ALT I-43 in downtown Green Bay: https://maps.app.goo.gl/FAdpmX5zwEWfbu3C8

[peterj920]

^^ There is an ALT I-43 in downtown Green Bay: https://maps.app.goo.gl/FAdpmX5zwEWfbu3C8

Forgot about that for the Frigo Bridge. That was put in place when the bridge had a long term closure. Otherwise they're rare.

[mgk920]

as shown by experience, there is *NO* good emergency alternate route to I-41 on Oshkosh city streets.

Mike

[Molandfreak]

as shown by experience, there is *NO* good emergency alternate route to I-41 on Oshkosh city streets.

Mike

There isn't one signed already?

An ALT route through Winneconne wouldn't be much further out of the way than the one following STH-49 and US 151.

[mgk920]

as shown by experience, there is *NO* good emergency alternate route to I-41 on Oshkosh city streets.

Mike

There isn't one signed already?

An ALT route through Winneconne wouldn't be much further out of the way than the one following STH-49 and US 151.

I-43 is the real alternate.  The I-41 Oshkosh Causeway is a long-standing 'weak spot' in the Wisconsin transport network.

Mike

[Molandfreak]

I-43 is the real alternate.

Now I'm not following. Getting to I-43 from Oshkosh would be counterintuitive. Is every temporary closure on the causeway longer than an hour?

[mgk920]

I-43 is the real alternate.

Now I'm not following. Getting to I-43 from Oshkosh would be counterintuitive. Is every temporary closure on the causeway longer than an hour?

But it would to Green Bay.

Mike

[Molandfreak]

I-43 is the real alternate.

Now I'm not following. Getting to I-43 from Oshkosh would be counterintuitive. Is every temporary closure on the causeway longer than an hour?

But it would to Green Bay.

Mike

I'm still not following here. Why are you talking about Green Bay if there is some sort of problem with the Oshkosh causeway? The ALT routes are primarily for unscheduled closures lasting less than an hour. It takes almost an hour just to get to Oshkosh from Green Bay.

[JREwing78]

I-43 is the real alternate.

Now I'm not following. Getting to I-43 from Oshkosh would be counterintuitive. Is every temporary closure on the causeway longer than an hour?

But it would to Green Bay.

Mike

I'm still not following here. Why are you talking about Green Bay if there is some sort of problem with the Oshkosh causeway? The ALT routes are primarily for unscheduled closures lasting less than an hour. It takes almost an hour just to get to Oshkosh from Green Bay.

<sarcasm>Because traffic from Appleton, Stevens Point, or anywhere else immediately south of Green Bay is irrelevant. Ditto for traffic originating from Madison, Fond du Lac, etc.

Traffic between Green Bay and Milwaukee is the only traffic that matters!</sarcasm>

[JREwing78]

Rerouting I-41 traffic through Oshkosh is far from ideal, but there are 4 bridges with a total of 16 lanes to cross the Fox River.

If WisDOT truly believes that to be inadequate, the 4-lane Hwy 21 can be extended westward, with a NE crossing of the Fox River and northern Omro bypass to connect to Hwy 116. A Hwy 116 southern bypass of Winneconne can then be constructed, tying into the existing US-45 interchange. Hwy 116 could then be extended eastward along current County GG to compete the Emergency I-41 loop.

Does I-41 over the causeway have to be closed so often to make this necessary though? 

[The Ghostbuster]

There were plans to upgrade Omro Rd. (https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/ne/wis21study/default.aspx) and build a bypass of Omro. However, since the study concluded 10 years ago, any upgrades along STH 21 have gone dormant. I think it is unlikely anything will happen other than a resurfacing project along STH 21 (https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/ne/Wis21/default.aspx).

[peterj920]

There were plans to upgrade Omro Rd. (https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/ne/wis21study/default.aspx) and build a bypass of Omro. However, since the study concluded 10 years ago, any upgrades along STH 21 have gone dormant. I think it is unlikely anything will happen other than a resurfacing project along STH 21 (https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/ne/Wis21/default.aspx).

There's 4 lane ROW to Omro on Wis 21. That seems like an easy upgrade since the land is there.

[mgk920]

There were plans to upgrade Omro Rd. (https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/ne/wis21study/default.aspx) and build a bypass of Omro. However, since the study concluded 10 years ago, any upgrades along STH 21 have gone dormant. I think it is unlikely anything will happen other than a resurfacing project along STH 21 (https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/ne/Wis21/default.aspx).

There's 4 lane ROW to Omro on Wis 21. That seems like an easy upgrade since the land is there.

Wasn't that currently unused part of that WI 21 ROW the grade of an interurban tram line from a century ago?

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

I'm afraid I don't know anything about that.

[mgk920]

I still recall the railroad tie texture in Algoma BD in Oshkosh city only a few years ago.

Mike

[JREwing78]

The Five Points intersection (US-51, Court St, Milwaukee St) in Janesville is finally open, after a long delay when utilities were found to be not where they were supposed to be. It necessitated negotiations with the railroad to make the necessary adjustments. West Court St was reopened a few weeks earlier after a ground-up rebuild and road diet (4 lanes to 3 with a two-way left-turn lane). 

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1DwyAMVopL/

[JREwing78]

A wayward semi driver early Friday morning took down a pole carrying a 350kV transmission line just north of the County N interchange (exit 147). The driver is in stable condition, and crews have since been busy clearing the wreck and repairing the transmission line. It has choked down NBD I-39/90 traffic to one lane (normally 3) and blocked access to NBD I-39/90 from the interchange. 

Semi driver stable after crash into power pole on I-90 | News | wkow.com https://share.google/K9jflX8bU93xsMBgG

[peterj920]

It appears for mileage signs on 2 lane roads WISDOT is going to list the closest incorporated community and a "control city" that will be listed until reaching that city. The only time 3 places will be listed is if there's a concurrency.

The freeways/expressways are signed extremely well but I don't like the changes to the 2 lane roads. The previous signs were more informative. I don't understand why WISDOT doesn't want to list 3 cities anymore on 2 lane roads.

[Molandfreak]

It appears for mileage signs on 2 lane roads WISDOT is going to list the closest incorporated community and a "control city" that will be listed until reaching that city. The only time 3 places will be listed is if there's a concurrency.

The freeways/expressways are signed extremely well but I don't like the changes to the 2 lane roads. The previous signs were more informative. I don't understand why WISDOT doesn't want to list 3 cities anymore on 2 lane roads.

Each community listed should contain at least one gas station and at least one restaurant. Is that true of all cities and villages? I think any third control city should have a hotel.

[SSOWorld]

It appears for mileage signs on 2 lane roads WISDOT is going to list the closest incorporated community and a "control city" that will be listed until reaching that city. The only time 3 places will be listed is if there's a concurrency.

The freeways/expressways are signed extremely well but I don't like the changes to the 2 lane roads. The previous signs were more informative. I don't understand why WISDOT doesn't want to list 3 cities anymore on 2 lane roads.

The nearest community thing is something I have a pet peeve regarding...

places that incorporate to avoid annexation seem to be (in my opinion) selling something with WisDOT to get their name recognized (i.e. Mt. Pleasant, Caledonia, Weston, Kronnenwetter). One local by me is Lancaster - which after a replacement of signs on 151 had been removed from Exit 8 (61 off itself) in favor of only Dickeyville, and (along with Darlington), Exit 19 (Wis 80/81) in favor of Cuba City (which was promoted from "oh, and this city, take this exit".) The same happened for Hollandale and Darlington on Wis 23 split at exit 43 in favor of Linden (on the not at this exit Wis 39 NW of Mineral Point). Here, both Hollandale and Darlington were placed on "oh, and this city, take this exit" signs. However at 8 and 19, Lancaster was left out. There had to be lobbying done by Lancaster to get its name back on the main signs at 8 and 19 as it was granted (demoting Cuba City again in the southbound direction). I'm torn on it, for exit 8, I see it as ok - but could have both directions.  On exit 19, Lancaster could have been put on a "oh, and this city, take this exit" sign in both directions - as 81 passes through the city. 

WisDOT has a high preferences on using cities instead of street names as well. Maple Ridge Road was demoted to "oh, and this city, take this exit" in Mosinee in favor of said city and Kronnenwetter. At least they wised up further north in Wausau and changed to the road name because "EAST - WEST" seems captain obvious to me for N and NN.  Many of the Exit around Waukesha can use street names, or nothing at all.

It's a grey area here. Many opinions that differ from mine are certainly present, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.  Oh wait...

[mgk920]

I will not likely live long enough to see it, But I can foresee those incorporated townships getting their comeuppance in a few decades as the 'Suburban growth Ponzi scheme' plays itself out.  They'll be hurting big time as their infrastructures come due for updating and replacement and they won't have the tax bases within their borders to cover the costs of the needed work.

Mike