Oddly Designated Control Cities

[Michael in Philly]

The "Niagara" and "Toronto" are functioning on the QEW more as directionals - in lieu of "North" and "South" - than as control cities.  At least the ones on little panels beneath (as they do in Canada) the route markers.

What do they say once you've reached Niagara Falls?  "Fort Erie"?  "Buffalo"?

[Mr_Northside]

I think most say Fort Erie.

[codyg1985]

I have several in the southeast:

- I-24 West control city from Nashville is Clarksville. IMO, it should be St. Louis. I believe at one time it used to be.

- I-55 North out of Jackson, MS has a control city of Grenada. IMO it should be Memphis. I believe some signs have both Grenada and Memphis on them. Similarly, I-55 South from Jackson has a control city of McComb where IMO it should be New Orleans (or Hammond if you want to go with the next interstate junction).

- I-10 West from Mobile has a control city of Pascagoula. IMO it should be Biloxi or Gulfport and/or New Orleans. Similarly, I-10 East from Slidell, LA has a control city of Bay St. Louis. IMO it should be Biloxi or Gulfport and/or Mobile. I believe the current control cities in AL and LA are from when I-10 wasn't finished in MS.

- US 78/Future I-22 West has control cities of Jasper, Hamilton, Tupelo, and Memphis, depending on where you are. The signage plans for the I-65/I-22 interchange have the I-22 west control city as Memphis, but one exit down the control city if Jasper. At the US 78/AL 5 exit it is Jasper and Memphis. In Jasper the control city switches to Tupelo, then west of Jasper it switches to Hamilton. At Hamilton it switches back to Tupelo. Going eastbound there is only one control city: Birmingham. I really wished ALDOT would do a signage rehab along all of I-22 once it is finished in Alabama. I'm crossing my fingers.

- US 71/Future I-49 in Missouri southbound from I-44 in Joplin uses Fort Smith, Ark as a control city. While this is true, I would think that either Fayetteville, Bentonville, or Springdale would be used as a control city instead since it is part of a larger metro area.

- The US 67 freeway Northbound in Arkansas has St. Louis as a control city. While US 67 does eventually reach St. Louis, it isn't a freeway the entire distance. I think the goal is to make it a freeway all the way to US 60 which would connect with I-55 and I-57. When that is finished, that would make more sense.

[roadman65]

The "Niagara" and "Toronto" are functioning on the QEW more as directionals - in lieu of "North" and "South" - than as control cities.  At least the ones on little panels beneath (as they do in Canada) the route markers.

What do they say once you've reached Niagara Falls?  "Fort Erie"?  "Buffalo"?

According to Wikipedia, it says Fort Erie up until Gilmore Road.  There it changes to "Bridge to USA" in Fort Erie, but Buffalo is used on the pull through at Highway 420 in addition to Fort Erie.  That may be to keep through trucks on the QEW being that they are banned from the Rainbow Bridge and to let autos know that QEW is more direct to NY's second largest city.

[ftballfan]

US-131 northbound keeps the Grand Rapids control city until the city limits between 28th St and Burton St, where it switches to Cadillac.

[kphoger]

^^Having a major city disappear 15 miles before you reach it, to be replaced by one 200 miles farther, is ridiculous.  (If someone from out of town is actually trying to find his way from Olathe into Kansas City by following the signs to "Kansas City" instead of the route numbers, he's s.o.l.)  But so many things in American control-city practices (including the term "control city") are ridiculous that I tend to avoid these discussions.

To think that someone trying to get from Olathe to K.C. would be confused by 'Des Moines' on a sign is ridiculous.  Control cities disappear shortly before reaching town all across the nation and you don't think a thing of it.  Two examples that come to mind are Dallas and Waco.

[hbelkins]

I snicker when I'm on I-264 or I-265 in Kentucky and see signs for Louisville (as in, Louisville and Lexington at I-64, Louisville and Cincinnati at I-71 or Louisville and Nashville on I-65). As far as I'm concerned, I'm already IN Louisville!

[TheStranger]

I snicker when I'm on I-264 or I-265 in Kentucky and see signs for Louisville (as in, Louisville and Lexington at I-64, Louisville and Cincinnati at I-71 or Louisville and Nashville on I-65). As far as I'm concerned, I'm already IN Louisville!

Which is absolutely the case - post-2003, all of Jefferson County = Louisville!

[tdindy88]

Indianapolis is the same way, you'll see Indianapolis on signage along I-65 north up to Keystone Avenue and south to about Lafayette Road. I-70 west has the city marked until at least Shadeland Avenue and both I-69 and I-74 mentions Indy all the way to 465. All of these mentions are for areas that are outside the older boundaries of Indianapolis before it consolidated with Marion County in the 70s.

[Michael in Philly]

^^Having a major city disappear 15 miles before you reach it, to be replaced by one 200 miles farther, is ridiculous.  (If someone from out of town is actually trying to find his way from Olathe into Kansas City by following the signs to "Kansas City" instead of the route numbers, he's s.o.l.)  But so many things in American control-city practices (including the term "control city") are ridiculous that I tend to avoid these discussions.

To think that someone trying to get from Olathe to K.C. would be confused by 'Des Moines' on a sign is ridiculous.  Control cities disappear shortly before reaching town all across the nation and you don't think a thing of it.  Two examples that come to mind are Dallas and Waco.

I take exception to the "ridiculous," thank you very much.

"Control cities disappear shortly before reaching town all across the nation and you don't think a thing of it. "  Your telepathy needs work as well; What I think, actually, is that the name of the city should be maintained until the city limits, then replaced by "Downtown" (or something appropriate - "Center City" in Philadelphia, "The Loop" in Chicago") until you're so close to the downtown that anyone actually heading there would be misled by that sign (because they should be getting off the freeway, or...).  Then and only then should that city disappear.  The very first suburb, at any rate, is not my idea of "shortly before reaching town."

In certain European countries, the actual standard is that once a place appears on directional signage, you should be able to follow that place name (at confusion points...) all the way to it.  (And "to it" means "to the center of it.")  Granted, this is because they don't know how to use route numbers in Europe....

[Michael in Philly]

I snicker when I'm on I-264 or I-265 in Kentucky and see signs for Louisville (as in, Louisville and Lexington at I-64, Louisville and Cincinnati at I-71 or Louisville and Nashville on I-65). As far as I'm concerned, I'm already IN Louisville!

Would you accept a "downtown" for those who are actually heading there?

[hbelkins]

Found this picture on the Courier-Journal site today. It's from I-64 westbound at the southern end of I-71 approaching I-65 at Spaghetti Junction. You can't get more "Louisville" than this, yet have a look at the control cities for I-65.

[agentsteel53]

In certain European countries, the actual standard is that once a place appears on directional signage, you should be able to follow that place name (at confusion points...) all the way to it.  (And "to it" means "to the center of it.")  Granted, this is because they don't know how to use route numbers in Europe....

at a particular point when one approaches the outskirts of a city, the signs start to explicitly denote the center.  For example "Hannover-Zentrum" in Germany, with a corresponding symbol.

[Michael in Philly]

Found this picture on the Courier-Journal site today. It's from I-64 westbound at the southern end of I-71 approaching I-65 at Spaghetti Junction. You can't get more "Louisville" than this, yet have a look at the control cities for I-65.

There I agree with you ("One time doesn't make a habit," the French would say at this point.)  But out at 265 or even 264, "Downtown Louisville" seems to me a perfectly reasonable, even obvious choice.  I've said many times in control-city discussions that I don't see why there's a taboo on two at the same sign, so you could satisfy through traffic as well: 
"65 South"
"Downtown Louisville"
"Nashville"

[Michael in Philly]

In certain European countries, the actual standard is that once a place appears on directional signage, you should be able to follow that place name (at confusion points...) all the way to it.  (And "to it" means "to the center of it.")  Granted, this is because they don't know how to use route numbers in Europe....

at a particular point when one approaches the outskirts of a city, the signs start to explicitly denote the center.  For example "Hannover-Zentrum" in Germany, with a corresponding symbol.

Yep!

[doogie1303]

Hello folks! This is (kinda sorta) a spinoff of the "Control Cities in Your State" thread.

Are there any control city designations that, while not necessarily wrong, are quite odd in the grand scheme of things?

I-95 south in RI seems to deny the existance of any control cities in CT. If they refer to any cities south of their border, the closest one they refer to is New York, like CT doesn't even exist. 

I found this website (http://www.kurumi.com/roads/ct/i395.html) which talks about CT roads and it might shed light on this subject, specifically this blurb about CT/RI:

Connecticut vs. Rhode Island
Some of the following is based on fact, and some has not been proven. It concerns why the Connecticut Turnpike was routed by Norwich and Killingly instead of continuing along the shore; and what might have been some consequences decades later.

Reasons for locating the Turnpike northward certainly included helping Norwich and Killingly. State Senator Lawrence Gilman (not the music critic) is said to have favored a highway linking Norwich to the shoreline. The Turnpike's original name is the Greenwich-Killingly Expressway, for the towns at each end.

As the Turnpike was being designed, the allocation of a federal Interstate route along the shore was already well-known. Some say that the Killingly alignment was also intended to secure a longer extent of future Interstate 95 in Connecticut. This would have resulted in fewer miles for Rhode Island, as I-95 would have proceeded straight across to Providence; under Ocean State protest, as the story goes, Interstate 95 was ruled to go closer to the shore.

The final part of the story: In the early 1980s, when Connecticut needed Rhode Island's help to keep the eastern I-84 proposal alive, Rhode Island remembered the Connecticut Turnpike/I-95 attempt and "got revenge" by stuffing I-84.

Again, I've heard this from just a few people, and not seen any sources you could call official. But the story is interesting nonetheless.

In my opinion, Rhode Island wanted to get back at Connecticut even more and did so by not recognizing any control cities in CT on south I-95.

[1995hoo]

I hadn't looked at this thread in a while. It made me think of the strange signs on I-95 near Trenton. See below (from AARoads.com). Who the heck abbreviates "Pennsylvania" as "Penna"???

[agentsteel53]

Who the heck abbreviates "Pennsylvania" as "Penna"???

Penna does.

[deathtopumpkins]

Adding to above^
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_251/120651139047656a.jpg

[Odd, no matter where I pull an image from the forum won't let me embed it. I just get the little 'picture broken' icon.]

[1995hoo]

Funny, I've been on the Pennsylvania Turnpike many times and I can't say I've ever noticed that abbreviation. What a strange way of abbreviating it.

[Roadsguy]

Yep. One old style of state route shield for PA (see the decommissioned ones here) had "Penna" in it, probably where the abbreviation in the Turnpike shield came from.

[agentsteel53]

Yep. One old style of state route shield for PA (see the decommissioned ones here) had "Penna" in it, probably where the abbreviation in the Turnpike shield came from.

the oldest state route shields said ROUTE instead of PENNA, while the US route shields said PENNSYLVANIA.  I believe the switch was made universally in 1940 to accommodate the new PENNA TURNPIKE shields. 

[jeffandnicole]

Who the heck abbreviates "Pennsylvania" as "Penna"???

http://www.paturnpike.com/

Same it's a lousy graphic rather than what their sign looks like, but the turnpike has always used the abbreviated PENNA on their shield.

[jwolfer]

I hadn't looked at this thread in a while. It made me think of the strange signs on I-95 near Trenton. See below (from AARoads.com). Who the heck abbreviates "Pennsylvania" as "Penna"???

My first roommate in college was from Pennsylvania and he hated Penna... but what got him really upset was "Pennsy"...The Star Ledger used to use that back in the 1980s..

[roadman]

My first roommate in college was from Pennsylvania and he hated Penna... but what got him really upset was "Pennsy"...The Star Ledger used to use that back in the 1980s..

"Pennsy" has long been a slang name for the Pennsylvania Railroad.