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Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33904.0
Corrected several already and appreciate your patience as we work through the rest.

Author Topic: District of Columbia  (Read 422288 times)

zzcarp

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1400 on: June 14, 2023, 09:12:02 PM »

I agree they should actually resign the freeways as approved. That said, what on earth were these truck drivers thinking? I understand a car driver backing up, but for a professional driver with a CDL is just seems egregiously unprofessional. Were their trucks overheight for the tunnel? Or hazmat? Otherwise, why do that dangerous maneuver instead of just getting off and working their way back to the freeway?
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1401 on: June 14, 2023, 09:30:01 PM »

Presumably they were overheight.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

oscar

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1402 on: June 14, 2023, 10:02:33 PM »

Presumably they were overheight.

The tunnel only has 13 feet of vertical clearance. That's because the tunnel had to be squeezed in between the water table and the National Mall. Raising the Mall, or elevating the freeway above the Mall, were not options.

The original plan was to run I-95 through the Third Street Tunnel. That would have made the overheight trucks problem even worse.
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1403 on: June 15, 2023, 07:41:18 AM »

At least the truck drivers stopped before they caused a situation like the 11-foot-8 (plus 8) bridge in Durham or the bridge with the ten-foot clearance on the Corner in Charlottesville.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1404 on: June 15, 2023, 05:20:52 PM »

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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

18 wheel warrior

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1405 on: July 04, 2023, 06:37:11 PM »

I agree they should actually resign the freeways as approved. That said, what on earth were these truck drivers thinking? I understand a car driver backing up, but for a professional driver with a CDL is just seems egregiously unprofessional. Were their trucks overheight for the tunnel? Or hazmat? Otherwise, why do that dangerous maneuver instead of just getting off and working their way back to the freeway?

I don't understand the re-routing/re-numbering thing at all. Maybe because I've been in DC so many times in my life, the re-routing/re-numbering would possibly confuse ME for a moment (the first time, anyway) if/when it were to happen. I think it's unnecessary and a waste of money.

I've known of the low clearance at the 3rd St Tunnel (I thought it was 12'6" though) for many years. On the rare occasion I do drive my rig through on the SW/SE Freeway I know better; I could have sworn there were low clearance warnings before Maine Ave. Just looked at the freeway on Google Street View; only saw a sign that lights up when an overheight trips it. As we know in Durham, that doesn't always get a driver's attention for some stupid reason. The only other warning is when one is already on the ramp! The good thing is that if a CDL were to exit there in error, there is still a bailout to the left onto C St SW instead of backing up like the driver in the video did. That driver not only wasn't paying attention, he panicked. 

Again, maybe it's because I've been in the District many times for someone who isn't local, unless the WTOP traffic reporter was referring to the lack of low height warnings, I disagree with the comment of the signage being poor. I love WTOP's "Traffic & Weather on the 8's"; I have my radio tuned to the network in from Fredericksburg north. 
 
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1406 on: July 04, 2023, 10:57:28 PM »

I also think the Interstate renumbering within Washington D.C. is unnecessary. However, it was approved, and it will likely happen sooner or later. I wonder if the exits will also be renumbered.
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1407 on: September 20, 2023, 12:17:37 PM »

WTOP reports that the FHWA is getting on DC's case about why the city hasn't done anything to implement the I-395/I-695/I-195 renumbering.

The radio station's tweets regularly refer to the eastbound location there as DC's "confusing exit condition."
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

elsmere241

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1408 on: September 20, 2023, 12:21:26 PM »

It was confusing enough the one time I tried to drive through the District to get home to Delaware from NoVA.  I wound up on what turned out to be South Capitol Street in Anacostia - I wound up just staying on that all the way to the Beltway.
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IMGoph

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1409 on: September 20, 2023, 02:10:45 PM »

It was confusing enough the one time I tried to drive through the District to get home to Delaware from NoVA.  I wound up on what turned out to be South Capitol Street in Anacostia - I wound up just staying on that all the way to the Beltway.

South Capitol Street doesn't go through Anacostia.

(Note for people who are not from DC and are not familiar with our local geography - everything east of the Anacostia River is not "Anacostia," despite what some suburbanites might think or say.)

If you drive on South Capitol Street from the freeway just south of the Capitol Building, once you cross the river, you run along the eastern boundary of Joint Base Anacostia-Bolling, and once the road crosses under 295, you skirt the edge of the neighborhood of Congress Heights, drive through Bellevue, and then nick the corner of Washington Highlands as you leave the city and enter Maryland.
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tmoore952

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1410 on: September 20, 2023, 04:38:05 PM »

WTOP reports that the FHWA is getting on DC's case about why the city hasn't done anything to implement the I-395/I-695/I-195 renumbering.

The radio station's tweets regularly refer to the eastbound location there as DC's "confusing exit condition."

I heard the same radio report (I'm also in DC area). Mention was also made of signage (which hasn't been changed) not agreeing with GPS application maps that have been updated with the new numbering, and specifically of people backing up when they realized NB I-395 was taking them into Third Street Tunnel (old way) instead of eastbound to I-295 (which new routing would do).

I don't have reason to drive down there very much, but I know what roads go where down there, and I know where I want to go regardless of what the signs say. But those signs should be immediately replaced at this point if they are that misleading.

My general impressions of DC signage over the 20+ years I've lived in this area is "very poor", especially on the smaller roads (signs are generally way too small and hard to see). I try to avoid driving in DC in general, but if it is necessary, I stick to my tried-and-true routes. Speed cameras (recent addition as far as I am concerned) and my lack of knowledge of where they are is another reason I try to avoid DC.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2023, 04:46:30 PM by tmoore952 »
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1411 on: September 20, 2023, 04:41:18 PM »

I take inbound I-395 (into the tunnel) fairly frequently as the most direct route to Union Station, but I don't pay much attention to the signs because I know which lane I need to be in at any given point.

WTOP has been crusading against the I-695 number ever since it was posted because their now-retired traffic reporter Bob Marbourg decided the number was too confusing given its use on the Baltimore Beltway.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Ted$8roadFan

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1412 on: September 20, 2023, 05:09:02 PM »

This is an agency based in Washington, D.C. laying down the law to the actual Washington city/district……so of course it can’t be simple.
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1413 on: September 20, 2023, 08:57:10 PM »

Channel 4 had a report about the issue tonight, although their graphics department personnel apparently think the Federal Housing Administration has some sort of authority over road signs:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/fha-tells-ddot-to-address-confusion-on-i-395/3427649/


Edited to add: Dave Dildine contributes to that report, for those of you who'd like to put a face to the name.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2023, 07:55:18 AM by 1995hoo »
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

davewiecking

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1414 on: September 21, 2023, 10:30:00 AM »

Channel 4 had a report about the issue tonight, although their graphics department personnel apparently think the Federal Housing Administration has some sort of authority over road signs:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/fha-tells-ddot-to-address-confusion-on-i-395/3427649/


Edited to add: Dave Dildine contributes to that report, for those of you who'd like to put a face to the name.
Also amusing that the map Ch4 showed at the beginning shows a third numbering method (I-695 WB continuing west of the merge).

I’m sure part of DC’s reluctance is because they had just finished hanging new signs when the announcement was made the numbering was going to change.
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1415 on: September 21, 2023, 10:42:12 AM »

Channel 4 had a report about the issue tonight, although their graphics department personnel apparently think the Federal Housing Administration has some sort of authority over road signs:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/fha-tells-ddot-to-address-confusion-on-i-395/3427649/


Edited to add: Dave Dildine contributes to that report, for those of you who'd like to put a face to the name.
Also amusing that the map Ch4 showed at the beginning shows a third numbering method (I-695 WB continuing west of the merge).

I’m sure part of DC’s reluctance is because they had just finished hanging new signs when the announcement was made the numbering was going to change.

It looks like they probably copied the shield location from Google Maps, which has an I-695 shield on the eastbound Southwest—Southeast Freeway almost immediately after I-395 splits off to the right down the ramp to the tunnel. Hopefully this map link is zoomed enough to show it.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

mrsman

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1416 on: September 21, 2023, 07:20:16 PM »

This whole issue is really frustrating.

DDOT will eventually change the numbering on the signs.  Good.

Another improvement adding Baltimore and Anacostia as control cities to the sign on the left.  395 to 295/295.  While I wouldn't route traffic from Fairfax County to Baltimore through here, traffic already in DC should certainly use this roadway and seeing a city as far away as Baltimore will guide most of the traffic that this is the thru route.

And the left lanes should no longer be marked as the exit 5.


At the 295/295 split, the signage should read

295 to 495 95             295 to 50
Anacostia                    Baltimore
Alexandria                   Annapolis
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ixnay

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1417 on: September 22, 2023, 04:43:28 PM »

I take inbound I-395 (into the tunnel) fairly frequently as the most direct route to Union Station, but I don't pay much attention to the signs because I know which lane I need to be in at any given point.

WTOP has been crusading against the I-695 number ever since it was posted because their now-retired traffic reporter Bob Marbourg decided the number was too confusing given its use on the Baltimore Beltway.

Only Marbourg could call the Baltimore Beltway "the real 695".  I miss him and his helpful, helpfully toned advice.  I also miss Sam Clover on Philly's KYW and Robin Bryson on Wilmington's WDEL (but those are topics for other AARoads boards).  Enjoy your retirements, fellas.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2023, 08:56:13 AM by ixnay »
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davewiecking

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1418 on: October 18, 2023, 01:54:59 PM »

Another pedestrian bridge struck over Kenilworth Ave. Driver apparently didn’t stop…
https://www.dcnewsnow.com/traffic/crews-evaluate-bridge-in-dc-after-truck-load-hits-it-leaves-debris-in-roadway
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1419 on: October 18, 2023, 10:00:38 PM »

Is there any way to increase the vertical clearance of pedestrian and vehicle overpasses (and vehicle underpasses) along DC 295 without excessive condemning of nearby properties?
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Rothman

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1420 on: October 18, 2023, 10:26:52 PM »

Is there any way to increase the vertical clearance of pedestrian and vehicle overpasses (and vehicle underpasses) along DC 295 without excessive condemning of nearby properties?
Probably not, given ADA requirements.
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Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Alps

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1421 on: October 19, 2023, 12:31:31 AM »

Is there any way to increase the vertical clearance of pedestrian and vehicle overpasses (and vehicle underpasses) along DC 295 without excessive condemning of nearby properties?
Probably not, given ADA requirements.
I don't think that's a valid answer to the question.

Rothman

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1422 on: October 19, 2023, 07:12:02 AM »

Is there any way to increase the vertical clearance of pedestrian and vehicle overpasses (and vehicle underpasses) along DC 295 without excessive condemning of nearby properties?
Probably not, given ADA requirements.
I don't think that's a valid answer to the question.
Why not?  To squeeze in ramps in the existing footprint while raising clearance would probably make them non-ADA compliant.
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davewiecking

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1423 on: October 19, 2023, 11:44:05 AM »

Is there any way to increase the vertical clearance of pedestrian and vehicle overpasses (and vehicle underpasses) along DC 295 without excessive condemning of nearby properties?
Probably not, given ADA requirements.
I don't think that's a valid answer to the question.
Why not?  To squeeze in ramps in the existing footprint while raising clearance would probably make them non-ADA compliant.
The bridge that was struck is in the process of being replaced, so the answer is YES in at least this case.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/EddefArqbpNmVz347
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sturmde

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #1424 on: October 19, 2023, 02:33:13 PM »

This is an agency based in Washington, D.C. laying down the law to the actual Washington city/district……so of course it can’t be simple.

AASHTO's SCOURN and FHWA though missed what they SHOULD have done.  Recommend the approved I-195 north/south section of I-395 be posted only as "DC 195" thus making it clear that it doesn't feed into a freeway system, and it's an interstate dead-end.  Might help make stupid drivers realize the approved-to-change-to-395 extension along I-695 is the way to I-295 and DC 295... 
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