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Author Topic: District of Columbia  (Read 218500 times)

froggie

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #700 on: October 01, 2016, 11:35:51 AM »

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC
If Trump wins maybe he can undo the executive order against DC freeways.

That wasn't just an executive order, but also part legal settlement and part DC's authority under Home Rule.  Nevermind that you'd still have to pay for those freeways...which these days would make construction of the Metrorail look cheap in comparison...
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #701 on: October 01, 2016, 01:05:20 PM »

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC
If Trump wins maybe he can undo the executive order against DC freeways.

That wasn't just an executive order, but also part legal settlement and part DC's authority under Home Rule.  Nevermind that you'd still have to pay for those freeways...which these days would make construction of the Metrorail look cheap in comparison...

Like it or not, anything that the D.C. Government does can be overruled by Congress (not the President alone), though in reality it is relatively rare, except for social issues like abortion.

Agreed that such freeways would have to be paid for. 

But I doubt seriously that freeway-class roads, even in D.C., would be as catastrophically expensive as Metrorail has been so far. 

Though  there's the issue of connecting them to freeways in Maryland, where they have also been removed from all planning maps.
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #702 on: October 01, 2016, 01:26:20 PM »

Quote from: ARMOURERERIC
If Trump wins maybe he can undo the executive order against DC freeways.

That wasn't just an executive order, but also part legal settlement and part DC's authority under Home Rule.  Nevermind that you'd still have to pay for those freeways...which these days would make construction of the Metrorail look cheap in comparison...

I assumed he was trying to be funny.
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froggie

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #703 on: October 01, 2016, 01:26:45 PM »

Quote
But I doubt seriously that freeway-class roads, even in D.C., would be as catastrophically expensive as Metrorail has been so far. 

Do the math.  For starters, any such freeway would require a far wider right-of-way than a Metrorail line.  Or would require wider tunnels.  Then there's the ROW costs for that wider ROW.  Nevermind the ancillary impacts, like the need for more parking downtown.  Where are you going to get the space for that, and at what cost?
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #704 on: October 01, 2016, 11:57:01 PM »

Quote
But I doubt seriously that freeway-class roads, even in D.C., would be as catastrophically expensive as Metrorail has been so far. 

Do the math.

I did.

Maryland's Md. 200 (ICC), built at about the same time in the same labor market as Dulles Rail, came in at about $2.4 billion (the final bill was a little less than that) for about 17.65 miles of new freeway-class toll road and supporting infrastructure (including interchanges, widening of I-95 and two maintenance centers). That works out to about $136.1 million per centerline mile.

Dulles Rail is about $5.7 billion (as of right now) for about 23 miles of new rail line, or about $247.1 million per mile.  Much of the right-of-way for Dulles Rail was "free."

For starters, any such freeway would require a far wider right-of-way than a Metrorail line.  Or would require wider tunnels.  Then there's the ROW costs for that wider ROW.  Nevermind the ancillary impacts, like the need for more parking downtown.  Where are you going to get the space for that, and at what cost?

Tunnels should not require much on the surface, as long as they are not cut-and-cover (I-395 under Third Street, N.W. was cut-and-cover, as was much of the Metrorail system in downtown D.C.).

This would not be a parking project.  And since the District of Columbia collects a large amount of parking space tax on private parking, and generally does not fund parting space construction, it's really not relevant to this discussion.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 10:25:48 AM by cpzilliacus »
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froggie

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #705 on: October 02, 2016, 08:22:27 AM »

As I recall, much of the right-of-way for the ICC was "free" as well, as it was already set aside.  Even if the land costs were part of the ICC cost, you didn't have the huge demolition and relocation costs that you would have putting another freeway through DC.

And while parking isn't directly related to roadways, it's applicable here as the need for more parking downtown would be a direct result of building additional DC freeways.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #706 on: October 02, 2016, 10:28:15 AM »

And while parking isn't directly related to roadways, it's applicable here as the need for more parking downtown would be a direct result of building additional DC freeways.

I disagree.  With  the notable exception of Congress, parking in the District of Columbia is  generally  not "free," and is generally market price.  So including the cost of any supposed parking for commuters is not relevant, since the price of those spaces will tend to encourage many people to use mass transit if it is  somewhat reliable.
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #707 on: October 02, 2016, 11:13:12 AM »

.... since the price of those spaces will tend to encourage many people to use mass transit if it is somewhat reliable.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #708 on: October 02, 2016, 02:03:29 PM »

This discussion seems more geared towards the fantasyland board....are there really any freeways in the city that are under any serious consideration?
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cl94

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #709 on: October 02, 2016, 02:10:58 PM »

This discussion seems more geared towards the fantasyland board....are there really any freeways in the city that are under any serious consideration?

None. Zip. Nada.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #710 on: October 02, 2016, 04:05:56 PM »

Only major project i see is extending HOT across 14th street bridge
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1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #711 on: October 02, 2016, 04:22:02 PM »

Only major project i see is extending HOT across 14th street bridge

DC has talked about the idea of HO/T lanes on I-295 and the Southeast–Southwest Freeway, which would dovetail with what you mention, but I certainly wouldn't expect to see them any time soon.

I think the biggest road project currently planned within the District is the Douglass Bridge replacement, possibly to be coupled with what they've called a "DC-style traffic circle" at the north end near the Nationals Park home plate gate.

I don't think anyone suggested any new highways were actually going to be built in DC.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #712 on: October 02, 2016, 06:52:04 PM »

Washington Post: How a neighborhood at the heart of the Beach Drive closure fought to keep its stop signs — and won

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Tony Nuland just wanted to walk his dog.

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Cradling Miki, his blind, 13-year-old Pekingese, the D.C. resident scanned crowded Cathedral Avenue NW for an opening. But a procession of cars racing down the hill in front of his home created an impasse.

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The 72-year-old didn’t want to risk scampering across two lanes of heavy traffic, so there he stood, helplessly trying to reach a grassy patch less than 50 feet from his front porch.

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So, asked to calm the traffic 17 years ago, the city obliged.

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But in advance of the Beach Drive closure in September, the District Department of Transportation covered up the stop signs Nuland and his neighbors fought so hard for — without consulting them. And it was only after a weeks-long fight involving letters, vocal complaints and two tense community meetings that the District partially reversed its decision, in an announcement that elicited loud cheers at a community meeting last week attended by dozens.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #713 on: October 02, 2016, 07:09:57 PM »

Quote
So, asked to calm the traffic 17 years ago, the city obliged.

Quote
But in advance of the Beach Drive closure in September, the District Department of Transportation covered up the stop signs Nuland and his neighbors fought so hard for — without consulting them. And it was only after a weeks-long fight involving letters, vocal complaints and two tense community meetings that the District partially reversed its decision, in an announcement that elicited loud cheers at a community meeting last week attended by dozens.

What is not mentioned above is this reality - STOP signs should not be about "traffic calming," for that is not why they exist. 

The District of Columbia has hundreds (or maybe thousands) of unwarranted STOP signs on its street system.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #714 on: October 02, 2016, 08:11:58 PM »

I've heard that modern roundabouts are pretty good at keeping speeds low while moving traffic at a constant flow.
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cl94

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #715 on: October 02, 2016, 08:20:41 PM »

I've heard that modern roundabouts are pretty good at keeping speeds low while moving traffic at a constant flow.

Don't tell that to a certain other user of this site...
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ixnay

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #716 on: October 03, 2016, 07:15:27 AM »


The District of Columbia has hundreds (or maybe thousands) of unwarranted STOP signs on its street system.

I started a thread on that topic on the traffic control board.

ixnay
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #717 on: October 03, 2016, 06:19:43 PM »

WTOP Radio: Breathing any easier? DC area went whole summer without ‘Code Red’ air quality alert

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Despite some record-breaking stretches of brutal heat this summer, most people were still breathing pretty easy.

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For the fourth straight summer, D.C. air quality stayed below “Code Red” levels, a measure that tracks unhealthy smog levels. That’s according to preliminary data published Monday by the Metropolitan Council of Governments.

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Smog, officially known as ground-level ozone, is a combination of various pollutants — emitted from cars and trucks, coal-fired power plants and other sources — that react in heat and sunlight to form the smoggy haze that smudges up the air in urban areas during the summer. The smog wreaks havoc on people with lung diseases, such as asthma, emphysema and chronic bronchitis as well as children and older people.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #718 on: October 03, 2016, 09:15:05 PM »

Only major project i see is extending HOT across 14th street bridge

It is discussed in this Move DC document, but I have not heard a peep from anyone associated with DDOT or any D.C. elected officials about making a deal with Virginia and their private concession holder to extend the HOV/Toll treatment across the Potomac River.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #719 on: March 09, 2017, 08:22:04 AM »

WTOP Radio: DC issued ‘unparalleled’ number of traffic tickets last year

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The number of photo-enforced tickets given to drivers in the District skyrocketed during the last fiscal year to more than 1.1 million, according to new figures released Thursday by AAA Mid-Atlantic.

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There were 1,101,769 photo-enforced tickets — including speed, red-light and stop-sign camera tickets — handed out in D.C. during the 2016 fiscal year. That marks a massive year-over-year increase of nearly 70 percent.

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The District’s fiscal year runs from Oct. 1 to Sept. 30.

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“The bulk of those tickets were speed camera tickets,” said AAA spokesman John Townsend. “We estimate that the District issued more than one million speed camera tickets, the highest total on a yearly basis in the District’s history.”

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The spike in photo-enforced citations helped push the number of overall tickets in the nation’s capital to an all-time high.

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“The District issued an unparalleled number of tickets last year,” Townsend said.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #720 on: March 09, 2017, 08:56:33 AM »

Nowhere in the article did Townsend make any comment about poor skills or illegal acts on the part of drivers who received tickets.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #721 on: March 09, 2017, 12:07:12 PM »

Nowhere in the article did Townsend make any comment about poor skills or illegal acts on the part of drivers who received tickets.

Nor did he mention that there are no speed cameras on the Southwest Freeway, 14th Street Bridge or T. Roosevelt Bridge.  There used to be a few on Southwest Freeway part of I-395, but they  were removed for reasons not clear to me.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #722 on: March 09, 2017, 12:17:53 PM »

I don't understand the guy sometimes. He could have used it as an opportunity to pitch safer driving, on the grounds that it is both safer and cheaper than breaking the rules of the road, but he instead drops these statistics as if the citations were handed down on the personal orders of the mayor.
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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #723 on: March 09, 2017, 01:39:40 PM »

Well, it doesn't help that DC installed the cameras to raise revenue from people who commute in from MD and VA.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #724 on: March 09, 2017, 02:07:29 PM »

Well, it doesn't help that DC installed the cameras to raise revenue from people who commute in from MD and VA.

Funny, I never gotten a ticket from a camera driving into the city. What am I doing wrong?
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