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[Beltway]

Did you drive it or did you get that online?
I would need to see a price profile by minute and then know of any incidents and their severity, before I could make an evaluation.

Online via Transurban's toll calculator.
VDOT's https://www.511virginia.org/ online VMS signage also added up to that amount at the time based on entry / exit points.

That still doesn't answer the question, as to the minute-by-minute profile over the last few hours, or what incidents may have taken place, or what ripple effect may still be around due to an earlier incident (or incidents plural).

There could be an incident on the express lanes themselves to where they would raise the toll to where it would "price" all the non-HOV-3 traffic off of the express lanes.

My average for my previously discussed times mostly on the edges of peak hours on I-95, for 2019 so far is $13.80 per trip for the 36 HOT trips which were tolled, and the 3 GP trips when the HOT lanes were obviously unneeded.

[Mapmikey]

There was a wreck on the 395 express lanes just before the beltway during today’s afternoon rush hour.

IIRC my toll on the 95 lanes this afternoon entering around 530 was about $25 from the beltway to Garrisonville. 

495 routinely cracks $20 during afternoon rush.

Also there is no way a general purpose trip from Tyson’s to Garrisonville was 66 minutes. The time posted from the start of the 495 lanes and US 50 alone was 20 minutes.

[1995hoo]

I was looking at Wikipedia this morning and I couldn't resist cleaning up the Virginia HOT lanes article, which was a mess. But I haven't been to Hampton Roads since 2006, so I do not feel informed enough to clean up the I-64 section, which is an atrocious mess of terrible capitalization, incorrect verb tenses, etc. If any of you are so inclined, perhaps you could clean up that section? (The final sentence in the lede, the one beginning "The sixth project," also needs some tweaks.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_HOT_lanes

[sprjus4]

I was looking at Wikipedia this morning and I couldn't resist cleaning up the Virginia HOT lanes article, which was a mess. But I haven't been to Hampton Roads since 2006, so I do not feel informed enough to clean up the I-64 section, which is an atrocious mess of terrible capitalization, incorrect verb tenses, etc. If any of you are so inclined, perhaps you could clean up that section? (The final sentence in the lede, the one beginning "The sixth project," also needs some tweaks.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_HOT_lanes

The information about I-64 is generally correct, just bad grammar, though is outdated in a lot of areas where it says "proposed" on pieces that are either already implemented or under construction.

Here's some background on I-64's lanes -

• The first proposed segment was converting the existing reversible HOV lanes between I-264 and I-564 to HO/T. This was implemented in January 2018. It is tolled & free to HOV-2+ during peak hours, 5am - 9am and 2pm - 6pm, during weekdays, and free to all traffic at all other times, weekends, and holidays.
• The second segment, between VA-168 Battlefield Blvd and I-664 at Bowers Hill, is currently under construction adding one HO/T lane in each direction, alongside two general purpose lanes each way.
• The third segment, between I-564 and Mallory Street in Hampton, including the HRBT, will begin construction next year adding one full time HO/T lane in each direction, along with a second HO/T shoulder (open during peak hours) in each direction. Essentially, there will be two HO/T lanes each way during peak hours, and one HO/T lane each way off peak, alongside two general purpose lanes each way.

Those are the only segments that are definitely set and stone. The rest is all proposal and talk, though will likely eventually get implemented one way or another in the long-term. This includes -

• Converting the existing left HOV lane each way on the Peninsula between I-664 and Jefferson Ave to one HO/T lane each way.
• Converting the existing left HOV lane each way on the Southside between VA-168 Battlefield Blvd and I-264 to one HO/T lane each way.
• Converting the existing left general purpose lane and constructing a hard shoulder for part-time HO/T use on the Peninsula between I-664 and Mallory St, to provide two HO/T lanes each way during peak hours, and one HO/T lane each way during off-peak hours, alongside two general purpose lanes.
• Constructing a hard left shoulder each way on the Southside between I-264 and I-564 alongside the reversible lanes to act as a part-time HO/T lane for usage opposite the direction the reversible is going.
• This is the newest proposal, and is vague, but generally adding at least one HO/T lane each way on the entire length of I-664, including the MMMBT, between I-264 / I-64 at Bowers Hill to I-64 on the Peninsula.

All of these proposals combined, the end goal is to create a continuous 66-mile HO/T lane network along the entire Hampton Roads Beltway (I-64 / I-664), and I-64 extending west to Jefferson Ave outside the beltway. The typical section is generally proposed as one HO/T lane each way along with having a second HO/T shoulder lane each way during peak hours in select areas, such as on the entire I-564 to I-664 on the Peninsula section, being tolled & free to HOV-2+ during peak hours, 5am - 9am and 2pm - 6pm, during weekdays, and free to all traffic at all other times, weekends, and holidays.

[Beltway]

Those are the only segments that are definitely set and stone. The rest is all proposal and talk, though will likely eventually get implemented one way or another in the long-term. This includes

The 4 sections with shoulder running / conversions were estimated at recent a CTB meeting to cost about $800 million in total, and those would connect the main segments that will have permanent managed lanes.

They gave the impression that it is not that far away, something they would like to have in place when the HRBT expansion is completed in 2025.

[sprjus4]

Those are the only segments that are definitely set and stone. The rest is all proposal and talk, though will likely eventually get implemented one way or another in the long-term. This includes

The 4 sections with shoulder running / conversions were estimated at recent a CTB meeting to cost about $800 million in total, and those would connect the main segments that will have permanent managed lanes.

They gave the impression that it is not that far away, something they would like to have in place when the HRBT expansion is completed in 2025.

The two sections that involve restriping the HOV lane to HO/T and putting up barriers, signs, and gantries won't be too hard to do and would have minimal costs.

The other two, adding a bi-directional HO/T shoulder alongside the reversible, and the I-664 on Peninsula to HRBT HO/T addition are the major pieces and the $800 million figure is only for those two projects, IIRC about $500 million for the Peninsula addition, and $300 for the bi-directional Southside addition.

The most expensive piece though would undoubtedly be the I-664 leg, more specifically the MMMBT, and also squeezing it through Newport News. Would likely involve either widening the existing bridges by adding two lanes to each, or building a new 4-lane bridge, and then building two new tunnels parallel to the existing.

[1995hoo]

That’s a lot of good info. I can’t really add any of it to the article now because I’m on the Acela, but if it’s still unchanged later this week, maybe I’ll mess with it.


Meanwhile, I managed a few pictures near the Pentagon en route to Union Station this afternoon. This is much improved over how it used to be.

[Beltway]

The 4 sections with shoulder running / conversions were estimated at recent a CTB meeting to cost about $800 million in total, and those would connect the main segments that will have permanent managed lanes.  They gave the impression that it is not that far away, something they would like to have in place when the HRBT expansion is completed in 2025.

The two sections that involve restriping the HOV lane to HO/T and putting up barriers, signs, and gantries won't be too hard to do and would have minimal costs.  The other two, adding a bi-directional HO/T shoulder alongside the reversible, and the I-664 on Peninsula to HRBT HO/T addition are the major pieces and the $800 million figure is only for those two projects, IIRC about $500 million for the Peninsula addition, and $300 for the bi-directional Southside addition.

The $800 million is a preliminary estimate.

While that is a lot, still not that much compared to some of the regional projects.

The most expensive piece though would undoubtedly be the I-664 leg, more specifically the MMMBT, and also squeezing it through Newport News. Would likely involve either widening the existing bridges by adding two lanes to each, or building a new 4-lane bridge, and then building two new tunnels parallel to the existing.

A whole different corridor, that is getting into some of the Third Crossing segments, such as the I-664 bridge-tunnel expansion and the I-664 highway expansion in Newport News and Hampton.

Meanwhile, I managed a few pictures near the Pentagon en route to Union Station this afternoon. This is much improved over how it used to be.

The I-395 express lanes are nice.  Now all of the express lane roadway is 3 lanes on Shirley Highway, to where it divides to 2 lanes each way near the Pentagon and northward to D.C.

[sprjus4]

The $800 million is a preliminary estimate.

While that is a lot, still not that much compared to some of the regional projects.

The only other regional project that has been fully funded higher than that price is the HRBT.

They're still looking for funding for I-64 High Rise Bridge corridor Phase #2 (over $1 billion), Oak Grove Interchange (rough estimates over $300 million), Bowers Hill Interchange (at least $600 million), I-264 Corridor Improvements (over $2 billion) I-64 widening to Richmond (around $1 billion), I-664 Widening & Third Crossing (over $5 billion), etc.

Then there's other projects that aren't currently on VDOT's radar but are going to become / already are serious bottlenecks in the future and would cost at least $1 billion or more to overhaul. A few that come to mind are VA-168, Downtown Interchange Complex (I-264 / I-464 / Berkley Bridge / Downtown Tunnel), and US-58.

They are planning on using bonds to accelerate the project and repay them back with toll revenue. There's no way tax dollars would get this project completed.

A whole different corridor, that is getting into some of the Third Crossing segments, such as the I-664 bridge-tunnel expansion and the I-664 highway expansion in Newport News and Hampton.

I-664 was recently added to the proposed HO/T network, so any projects that occur along there will likely include at least one HO/T lane each way.

[Beltway]

The $800 million is a preliminary estimate.  While that is a lot, still not that much compared to some of the regional projects.

The only other regional project that has been fully funded higher than that price is the HRBT.

$3.8 billion

They're still looking for funding for I-64 High Rise Bridge corridor Phase #2 (over $1 billion), Oak Grove Interchange (rough estimates over $300 million), Bowers Hill Interchange (at least $600 million), I-264 Corridor Improvements (over $2 billion) I-64 widening to Richmond (around $1 billion), I-664 Widening & Third Crossing (over $5 billion), etc.

$9.9 billion in total using those numbers.

Then there's other projects that aren't currently on VDOT's radar but are going to become / already are serious bottlenecks in the future and would cost at least $1 billion or more to overhaul. A few that come to mind are VA-168, Downtown Interchange Complex (I-264 / I-464 / Berkley Bridge / Downtown Tunnel),

I don't think they should even try to expand that given the urban and waterway constraints.

Address that indirectly by expanding the Jordan Bridge and its connections, and building the I-564 extension to I-664, along with the connector to the Craney Island future marine terminals and VA-164, with will also form the Uptown Crossing of the Elizabeth River.

and US-58.
They are planning on using bonds to accelerate the project and repay them back with toll revenue. There's no way tax dollars would get this project completed.

Which project?

[sprjus4]

Which project?

The $800 million figure you mentioned for the HO/T conversions.

Address that indirectly by expanding the Jordan Bridge and its connections

What specific things did you have in mind?

The Jordan Bridge has good connections with the I-464 interchange, though is far away from I-264.

[Beltway]

Which project?

The $800 million figure you mentioned for the HO/T conversions.

Oh, ok.

Address that indirectly by expanding the Jordan Bridge and its connections

What specific things did you have in mind?  The Jordan Bridge has good connections with the I-464 interchange, though is far away from I-264.

Parallel bridge, upgrade approach roads to 4-lane arterials.

[sprjus4]

Parallel bridge, upgrade approach roads to 4-lane arterials.

VA-239 Victory Blvd is already a 4-lane divided highway between the bridge and I-264.

VA-337 Elm Ave headed to Downtown Portsmouth is still only 2-lanes and has a at-grade railroad crossing, though it would be a tight squeeze to get a 4-lane road through there, given the proximity of Norfolk Naval Shipyard and Scott's Annex being on either side.

Ideally, a 2-mile urban freeway could exist between a 4-lane Jordan Bridge and I-264 / VA-164, forming an inner loop bypass of the Downtown complex, though there's the issue of heavy residential development, wetlands, and more importantly Scott's Annex.

[AlexandriaVA]

VDOT considering turning the south-facing ramp from Seminary Rd from an HOV-only ramp to an HO/T ramp. Can't say I'm too surprised...I think the currently HOV-only rule is a holdover from before the HO/T days.

https://alextimes.com/2019/12/i-395-hov-ramp/

[froggie]

^ Keeping that ramp HOV-only was part of the agreement for the Mark Center development.

[1995hoo]

Dave Dildine of WTOP tweeted that the aggregate toll from the 14th Street Bridge to Aquia topped $60 this afternoon. Not a big surprise it would be high given the combination of snow and the federal government closing at 1:00 due to the snow. At one point when I looked at the website, the toll to go from the American Legion Bridge to Aquia added up to $76.25 ($28 on the Beltway and $47 on I-95).

[sprjus4]

Dave Dildine of WTOP tweeted that the aggregate toll from the 14th Street Bridge to Aquia topped $60 this afternoon. Not a big surprise it would be high given the combination of snow and the federal government closing at 1:00 due to the snow. At one point when I looked at the website, the toll to go from the American Legion Bridge to Aquia added up to $76.25 ($28 on the Beltway and $47 on I-95).

Yikes.

[Mapmikey]

Dave Dildine of WTOP tweeted that the aggregate toll from the 14th Street Bridge to Aquia topped $60 this afternoon. Not a big surprise it would be high given the combination of snow and the federal government closing at 1:00 due to the snow. At one point when I looked at the website, the toll to go from the American Legion Bridge to Aquia added up to $76.25 ($28 on the Beltway and $47 on I-95).

It was a little higher than that when I went home (reached beltway HOT entrance at 310).

Even with the congestion that exists in the toll lanes when they get pricey they were still appreciably faster than the main lanes.

It is always chaos when the government throws everyone out early. Took me 2 hrs to reach the American Legion Bridge (9 miles).

[Beltway]

It is always chaos when the government throws everyone out early. Took me 2 hrs to reach the American Legion Bridge (9 miles).

Plus a higher probability of incidents and congestion in the express lanes themselves, and pricing designed to get people to avoid them in some cases.

[cpzilliacus]

Dave Dildine of WTOP tweeted that the aggregate toll from the 14th Street Bridge to Aquia topped $60 this afternoon. Not a big surprise it would be high given the combination of snow and the federal government closing at 1:00 due to the snow. At one point when I looked at the website, the toll to go from the American Legion Bridge to Aquia added up to $76.25 ($28 on the Beltway and $47 on I-95).

I do not doubt this at all.  And I was not in Virginia today, but I did see the traffic "heading for the exits" as Bob Marbourg used to say, in Northeast Washington, and it was terrible.

[cpzilliacus]

It is always chaos when the government throws everyone out early. Took me 2 hrs to reach the American Legion Bridge (9 miles).

The answer from the Montgomery County, Maryland obstructionist cottage industry would have been that you were supposed to be taking public transit. 

[Mapmikey]

It is always chaos when the government throws everyone out early. Took me 2 hrs to reach the American Legion Bridge (9 miles).

The answer from the Montgomery County, Maryland obstructionist cottage industry would have been that you were supposed to be taking public transit. 

Supposedly public transit did not adjust their assets or schedules to reflect the mass exodus so a lot of people were stuck for significant periods of time waiting on their method of public transportation to arrive.  I work with someone who had to call his wife from Columbia MD to come to Bethesda and get him because his commuter bus didn't change its schedule.  Another reported back that the bus he uses did come earlier but were completely full.

I will admit it took me an hour alone to get off the reservation that I work at.  Then most of the next hour was stuck on Clara Barton Pkwy trying to get to the Beltway.  The neighborhood in between these locations was nearly normal.  I gave up on using the beltway to the bridge several years ago as it is quite slow on the outer loop getting around to the bridge.  Today VDOT had a work zone blocking lanes on the Outer Loop at I-66 which backed up traffic to Old Georgetown Rd in Maryland before the exodus was fully even underway...

Once I got to the Beltway and HOT lanes my ride home was maybe just 15 minutes longer than it would've been.  But overall it took 3.75 hrs when it normally runs 1.5 hrs in the afternoon.

Plus a higher probability of incidents and congestion in the express lanes themselves, and pricing designed to get people to avoid them in some cases.

Surprisingly there were very few incidents in the DC Metro area of any kind reported on WTOP during the 3 hours I was tuned in.  Everything was volume, volume, volume.

[1995hoo]

I was very pleased to be telecommuting today.

[froggie]

It is always chaos when the government throws everyone out early. Took me 2 hrs to reach the American Legion Bridge (9 miles).

The answer from the Montgomery County, Maryland obstructionist cottage industry would have been that you were supposed to be taking public transit. 

Still, Metrorail tends to run better than the roadways during such storms.  At least as long as there isn't 6-8" of snow on the aboveground sections...

[cpzilliacus]

It is always chaos when the government throws everyone out early. Took me 2 hrs to reach the American Legion Bridge (9 miles).

The answer from the Montgomery County, Maryland obstructionist cottage industry would have been that you were supposed to be taking public transit. 

Still, Metrorail tends to run better than the roadways during such storms.  At least as long as there isn't 6-8" of snow on the aboveground sections...

Based on what Mapmikey told me about where he works and where he lives (I do not believe he checked with the Montgomery County Sierra Club or the Piedmont Environmental Council before making a choice of where to live), that trip is not practical by public transit.