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Author Topic: Illinois notes  (Read 236119 times)

Paulinator66

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1850 on: September 30, 2020, 01:54:33 PM »

I just looked at Interstate 90 along this segment on Street View. The pavement looks ghastly. Also, what segment of Interstate 55 are you refering to when you say "everyone's favorite I-55 section"?

Between I-80 and Weber Road.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5547791,-88.1806159,3a,75y,186.24h,84.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYnbHgkIXZ-u8Fw2KoxdU9A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6238457,-88.1636653,3a,75y,181.59h,70.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOk0oF02riICmpHh7ocajtQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I swear, the pavement on 55 is a shade of orangish-red from STL to Springfield. Parts are bumpy as all hell. That reddish pavement is common in Mississippi and TN and such (due to iron) but not in the midwest.

I've noticed this too. They ought to six lane 55 from 270/70 to Springfield. Lots of trucks use 55.

I live in the area and used to drive that stretch (I-55 from I-270 to Spfld) a couple times a week.  It had terrible traffic from I-270 to at least Livingston, IL (exit #37, I think) and justification could be made for widening to 3 lanes without even considering future growth.

It's been a while, but I remember I-55 only being six lanes from Lincoln to the south end of Sangamon County. Except, of course, where you need it as you go around Springfield on the I-55/72 concurrency!!! The whole of I-55 in Illinois should be six lanes considering the traffic. I was so grateful when they widened it around Bloomington/ Normal, which is where I normally exited to head up I-39 to Wisconsin.

It's still that way. I guess the latest 5 year plan has rebuilding of the Southern I-55/I-72 Interchange in Springfield programmed (it's the Northern one that needs it much more urgently). Also, I think they also added an extension of the 3 lane section to past the Sangamon River now, but of course, this still leaves the section actually within Springfield still in need of a major widening/upgrade.

They do need to widen the entire thing to six lanes, but other than Springfield, the next sections that need to be the top priority are South of I-80 to at least Braidwood, and probably even Dwight. Then the section in the Metro East North of I-255 to at least I-270 and probably through the whole of Madison County. Those also would be the most challenging sections with lesser ROW. Once you get out of those sections, the rest would be relatively easy and just require slapping an extra lane inside (and of course rebuilding any overpasses to accommodate where needed). Don't hold your breath, though. Illinois, on the I-80 rebuild plans through Joliet seems like they might not even have six through lanes on the entire thing, although I am hoping that common sense will prevail before they start building that.

I've been on the Citizens Advisory Group for the widening of I-55 through Springfield.  From that exposure I can say it IS on their immediate radar but, like all other things in IL, they are waiting on money.  Now that they passed the additional gas tax they have begun the process of doing it; albeit in little sections.  The 6th Street exit (the south end of the I-55/I-72 concurrency) and the widening of the stretch between Sangamon Ave and Sherman exits are both planned for the near future with the rest of the corridor to be done later. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a cohesive, all-encompassing plan to do it all in one continuous project.

Fun Fact: I learned during the CAG meetings that IDOT has agreed, as part of the overall project, to widen I-72 between the 6th Street interchange and the IL-4 exit on the west side of town. This was not originally planned but, when future growth on the west side of town was considered, it was added into the mix as well.
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ChiMilNet

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1851 on: September 30, 2020, 05:58:04 PM »

I just looked at Interstate 90 along this segment on Street View. The pavement looks ghastly. Also, what segment of Interstate 55 are you refering to when you say "everyone's favorite I-55 section"?

Between I-80 and Weber Road.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5547791,-88.1806159,3a,75y,186.24h,84.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYnbHgkIXZ-u8Fw2KoxdU9A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6238457,-88.1636653,3a,75y,181.59h,70.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOk0oF02riICmpHh7ocajtQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I swear, the pavement on 55 is a shade of orangish-red from STL to Springfield. Parts are bumpy as all hell. That reddish pavement is common in Mississippi and TN and such (due to iron) but not in the midwest.

I've noticed this too. They ought to six lane 55 from 270/70 to Springfield. Lots of trucks use 55.

I live in the area and used to drive that stretch (I-55 from I-270 to Spfld) a couple times a week.  It had terrible traffic from I-270 to at least Livingston, IL (exit #37, I think) and justification could be made for widening to 3 lanes without even considering future growth.

It's been a while, but I remember I-55 only being six lanes from Lincoln to the south end of Sangamon County. Except, of course, where you need it as you go around Springfield on the I-55/72 concurrency!!! The whole of I-55 in Illinois should be six lanes considering the traffic. I was so grateful when they widened it around Bloomington/ Normal, which is where I normally exited to head up I-39 to Wisconsin.

It's still that way. I guess the latest 5 year plan has rebuilding of the Southern I-55/I-72 Interchange in Springfield programmed (it's the Northern one that needs it much more urgently). Also, I think they also added an extension of the 3 lane section to past the Sangamon River now, but of course, this still leaves the section actually within Springfield still in need of a major widening/upgrade.

They do need to widen the entire thing to six lanes, but other than Springfield, the next sections that need to be the top priority are South of I-80 to at least Braidwood, and probably even Dwight. Then the section in the Metro East North of I-255 to at least I-270 and probably through the whole of Madison County. Those also would be the most challenging sections with lesser ROW. Once you get out of those sections, the rest would be relatively easy and just require slapping an extra lane inside (and of course rebuilding any overpasses to accommodate where needed). Don't hold your breath, though. Illinois, on the I-80 rebuild plans through Joliet seems like they might not even have six through lanes on the entire thing, although I am hoping that common sense will prevail before they start building that.

I've been on the Citizens Advisory Group for the widening of I-55 through Springfield.  From that exposure I can say it IS on their immediate radar but, like all other things in IL, they are waiting on money.  Now that they passed the additional gas tax they have begun the process of doing it; albeit in little sections.  The 6th Street exit (the south end of the I-55/I-72 concurrency) and the widening of the stretch between Sangamon Ave and Sherman exits are both planned for the near future with the rest of the corridor to be done later. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a cohesive, all-encompassing plan to do it all in one continuous project.

Fun Fact: I learned during the CAG meetings that IDOT has agreed, as part of the overall project, to widen I-72 between the 6th Street interchange and the IL-4 exit on the west side of town. This was not originally planned but, when future growth on the west side of town was considered, it was added into the mix as well.

As noted in prior posts, IL barely has the money it needs to keep their pavement in acceptable condition, let alone expand and improve the system. I did see those two items programmed in the latest STIP, which I mentioned above. It's a good start, and I am sure part of it is simply that the cost to do the main section is going to be the most expensive, on top of which, that they will basically need to rebuild everything from the ground up there. Here's hoping that maybe as those projects are finishing up that IDOT may identify the funding to do the rest. It's not always the worst thing to do it in sections, as with the section in Bloomington/Normal, as long as there isn't a 10+ year gap. Glad to hear that the widening of I-72 is now part of the plan. I have driven through there a couple of times, and I always felt, with the growth there, it would make sense to add a lane for that stretch.
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Paulinator66

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1852 on: October 02, 2020, 10:03:18 AM »

... they will basically need to rebuild everything from the ground up there.

Yes, the company doing all the preliminary engineering has said it will have to be a total tear-out and rebuild for the whole corridor.  They plan/build for a life span of 50 years and since that section is already ~60 years old there is no way any of it can be adequate for another 50 years.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1853 on: October 02, 2020, 12:42:45 PM »

They plan/build for a life span of 50 years and since that section is already ~60 years old there is no way any of it can be adequate for another 50 years.

Notably, the I-290 Eisenhower Expressway in Chicago was designed to handle the projected traffic and loading impact to the year 1975. It has limped along 44 years past its planning horizon with patching, resurfacing and bridge repair. Not ideal, and not adequate, but goes to show how many of these roads last way longer than intended, and under more brutal conditions (especially trucks) than originally envisioned.
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edwaleni

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1854 on: October 04, 2020, 08:05:25 PM »

They plan/build for a life span of 50 years and since that section is already ~60 years old there is no way any of it can be adequate for another 50 years.

Notably, the I-290 Eisenhower Expressway in Chicago was designed to handle the projected traffic and loading impact to the year 1975. It has limped along 44 years past its planning horizon with patching, resurfacing and bridge repair. Not ideal, and not adequate, but goes to show how many of these roads last way longer than intended, and under more brutal conditions (especially trucks) than originally envisioned.

I drove the Eisenhower (I-290) when they did that last major update in the late 1970's.  They did something very unique, they scraped off a few inches of the concrete except where the section joints were. They patched it, sealed it, then paved it with asphalt between the section joints.  Then every so many years when the asphalt would fail, they simply scraped off the asphalt back down to that original concrete again, left the section joints (fixed them if cracked), and repaved it. It worked much better because the asphalt was laid even to the concrete at the section joints, so you didn't get a wap-wap sound of driving over them. (IMHO) It was very ingenious way to deal with the volumes of traffic it faced, the need to repave it often (mostly at night) and could be repaired quickly and in small sections. I always thought that was good engineering to the benefit of IDOT.
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edwaleni

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1855 on: October 04, 2020, 08:21:37 PM »

And for what its worth, If the Ike is redone from scratch someday, we will probably lose the unused rail tunnel between Central and Laramie. It was built in case the Chicago, Aurora & Elgin survived. (It didn't)

The number of 1950's era bridges over the Ike that are falling apart is pretty embarrassing. Rebar poking out on all of them. Many have lumber stuck up between the beams to keep crumbling decks from dropping rocks on the Ike below.

I will save how a new Ike should look for a different thread, but it has served pretty doggone well for the past 70 years.
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Brandon

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1856 on: October 05, 2020, 07:46:47 PM »

And for what its worth, If the Ike is redone from scratch someday, we will probably lose the unused rail tunnel between Central and Laramie. It was built in case the Chicago, Aurora & Elgin survived. (It didn't)

The rail tunnel under the eastbound lanes is used by the CTA Blue Line.
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edwaleni

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1857 on: October 05, 2020, 10:38:07 PM »

And for what its worth, If the Ike is redone from scratch someday, we will probably lose the unused rail tunnel between Central and Laramie. It was built in case the Chicago, Aurora & Elgin survived. (It didn't)

The rail tunnel under the eastbound lanes is used by the CTA Blue Line.

The 2 track tunnel is. There was a 1 track tunnel built next to it. Never used.
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I-39

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1858 on: October 06, 2020, 09:15:50 PM »

IDOT announces plans for the expansion of I-57 between Mt Vernon and Johnson City

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/illinois-officials-announce-projects-in-ongoing-expansion-of-i-57-in-southern-illinois/article_422d45c0-b202-552e-b4c5-0563537d8527.html

What about the section between Marion and I-24? I thought it was going to be widened down to there.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1859 on: October 06, 2020, 09:29:57 PM »

IDOT announces plans for the expansion of I-57 between Mt Vernon and Johnson City

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/illinois-officials-announce-projects-in-ongoing-expansion-of-i-57-in-southern-illinois/article_422d45c0-b202-552e-b4c5-0563537d8527.html

What about the section between Marion and I-24? I thought it was going to be widened down to there.
Yup, read that story on The Southern Illinoisanís website the other day

The little bit of I-57 between Marion Main St/Old 13 and I-24? Maybe the Traffic Studies shows enough traffic flows to the IL 13 corridor from I-57 that the 6 laning project isnít needed all the way to I-24. I find that hard to believe, but I guess it is possible
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skluth

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1860 on: October 08, 2020, 04:31:03 PM »

IDOT announces plans for the expansion of I-57 between Mt Vernon and Johnson City

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/illinois-officials-announce-projects-in-ongoing-expansion-of-i-57-in-southern-illinois/article_422d45c0-b202-552e-b4c5-0563537d8527.html

What about the section between Marion and I-24? I thought it was going to be widened down to there.
Yup, read that story on The Southern Illinoisanís website the other day

The little bit of I-57 between Marion Main St/Old 13 and I-24? Maybe the Traffic Studies shows enough traffic flows to the IL 13 corridor from I-57 that the 6 laning project isnít needed all the way to I-24. I find that hard to believe, but I guess it is possible

It will complete making I-57 six lanes from the northern I-57/64 interchange to Marion. I think that's a higher priority - and a lot more miles - than between Marion and the I-57/24 split. Rebuilding those ten miles or so south of Marion (plus a new I-24/57 interchange) may be better justified due to increased traffic once the more northern section is completed.
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kphoger

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1861 on: October 08, 2020, 04:43:46 PM »

I just looked at the AADTs, and I was surprised to see that traffic counts south of Marion are almost as high as north of Marion.

From Mount Vernon to Marion, AADTs are in the 36k range.  South of Old Route 13, they're in the 32k range.

Johnson City

I don't know if that was just a typo, or if you're mistaken about the town name.  There should be another t in there.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1862 on: October 08, 2020, 05:53:55 PM »

I just looked at the AADTs, and I was surprised to see that traffic counts south of Marion are almost as high as north of Marion.

From Mount Vernon to Marion, AADTs are in the 36k range.  South of Old Route 13, they're in the 32k range.

Johnson City

I don't know if that was just a typo, or if you're mistaken about the town name.  There should be another t in there.
Johnston City

One of my co-workers lives there. When I first started down here, he corrected my pronounciation pretty quickly
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Lyon Wonder

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1863 on: November 13, 2020, 06:02:32 PM »

The westbound span of the new I-74 tied-arch bridge on the Mississippi River between Moline, IL and Bettendorf, IA is now open to traffic.

https://www.kwqc.com/2020/11/13/iowa-bound-portion-of-new-i-74-bridge-opens-thursday-night/ 

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ilpt4u

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1864 on: November 13, 2020, 06:38:47 PM »

And, of course, Google Maps is slow to update that the new bridge and route is open
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ET21

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1865 on: November 16, 2020, 09:49:11 AM »

That new bridge looks awesome
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JoePCool14

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1866 on: November 16, 2020, 01:31:22 PM »

That new bridge looks awesome

Agreed! Looks very sharp.
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edwaleni

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1867 on: November 16, 2020, 09:55:11 PM »

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1868 on: November 16, 2020, 11:02:54 PM »

That new bridge looks awesome


It doesn't look like there's been much progress on the eastbound arch since that video was taken.
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paulthemapguy

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1869 on: November 23, 2020, 11:23:54 AM »

The interchange at I-55 and Weber Road is starting to look like a DDI in small ways!  Look where the cement truck is sitting.  That pavement definitely curves diagonally as if to begin a crossover!  Photo taken looking south at the northern ramp junction.


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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1870 on: November 24, 2020, 11:56:26 AM »

I will be fascinated to see how they demolish the old suspension spans there in the Quads once the new bridges are done.  One doesn't see that every day.  I think of suspension bridges as there 'forever' because most of them are such large spans that they need to last at least century.  But not always.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1871 on: November 24, 2020, 05:01:09 PM »

It doesn't look like there's been much progress on the eastbound arch since that video was taken.

Timeline shows end of construction and old bridge removal in 2022. https://i74riverbridge.com/images/I74_timeline_020520.jpg
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edwaleni

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1872 on: November 25, 2020, 09:55:20 AM »

I will be fascinated to see how they demolish the old suspension spans there in the Quads once the new bridges are done.  One doesn't see that every day.  I think of suspension bridges as there 'forever' because most of them are such large spans that they need to last at least century.  But not always.

Probably the COE will close the waterway for a few days and they will separate the cables by detonation at the top of each tower followed by a detonation at each section joint.

Once the refuse is cleared for one bridge, they will do it again for the second span a few weeks later.

Then the towers will be disassembled, and finally the foundations blasted under the water as to not create a navigation hazard.

If they were really smart, they would have engineers place IoT tension sensors all over the bridge and then measure the changes in cable pressure as the span fails during the detonation.

A good way to collect data and compare to their simulations on old bridge lifespans.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 10:00:57 AM by edwaleni »
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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1873 on: December 05, 2020, 12:33:00 PM »

Based on this article in the Rockford paper, it appears the interchange on IL 251 around Whitman Street in Rockford will first be partially downgraded and ultimately fully removed.  https://www.rrstar.com/story/news/2020/12/05/here-rockfords-construction-plan-next-five-years/6471103002/
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edwaleni

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Re: Illinois notes
« Reply #1874 on: December 06, 2020, 09:33:07 PM »

Based on this article in the Rockford paper, it appears the interchange on IL 251 around Whitman Street in Rockford will first be partially downgraded and ultimately fully removed.  https://www.rrstar.com/story/news/2020/12/05/here-rockfords-construction-plan-next-five-years/6471103002/

Probably because when the Whitman Bridge was built, IL-251 was still US-51 and the only generally available bridges to cross the Rock River were all in the central business district.

To collect a range of cross river traffic (especially trucks) they built this bridge with a collector for several US routes at the time.

On the east side:

Then US-51 (Kishwaukee Street) and traffic coming from Loves Park
US-20 which was alternating between Charles Street and State Street

This rerouted local traffic to use either Kilburn on the west side to reach US-20 (State Street West)  or IL-70 (Kilborn Street North) to exit the city center.

This was a common way to get traffic near the city center without all of it having to pass through it.

The same approach was used in South Bend, Indiana with its river crossings and US-31 and US-20.  They built an "urban bypass" with a new bridge to take traffic out of the city center with collectors to highly traveled local streets.

Now that both US-20 and US-51 along with I-90/I-39 all providing suburban level bypass of the city center, there probably isn't a need for such a collector anymore.
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