Only in this state....

[kphoger]

Admittedly, it would be hard to fact check a situation that one remembers from 1985.

But I'm still struggling to understand the situation he's describing, even imagining a hypothetcial intersection instead of that specific one.  If there were no turn arrows, then how would northbound left-turning traffic know they had a protected left turn while southbound traffic was facing a red–and vice versa for the second phase?  It just doesn't make sense to me.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hazlet,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.436732,-74.141225&spn=0.004156,0.010568&sll=40.67766,-74.400455&sspn=0.003881,0.010568&oq=hazle&t=h&hnear=Hazlet,+Monmouth,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.436973,-74.1411&panoid=iis7Mo3UMbwWMij9jCUWFA&cbp=12,42.24,,0,0

Here is a signal on Laurel Avenue near Keansburg, NJ that has what I am talking about.    Notice the cars turning left with other cars stopped on the opposing side, yet no arrow with the green.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hazlet,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.436969,-74.141096&spn=0.004156,0.010568&sll=40.67766,-74.400455&sspn=0.003881,0.010568&oq=hazle&t=h&hnear=Hazlet,+Monmouth,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.437176,-74.141002&panoid=UhDCjxDzfv9vOfx1-NINGg&cbp=12,357.24,,0,0

Now here is the google car making that  same protected left.  Jeff and Nicole said it best to back me up as it is quite common in New Jersey for this particular practice.

Wow!  Now I understand.  What a dumb idea that is!

[Brandon]

Admittedly, it would be hard to fact check a situation that one remembers from 1985.

But I'm still struggling to understand the situation he's describing, even imagining a hypothetcial intersection instead of that specific one.  If there were no turn arrows, then how would northbound left-turning traffic know they had a protected left turn while southbound traffic was facing a red–and vice versa for the second phase?  It just doesn't make sense to me.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hazlet,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.436732,-74.141225&spn=0.004156,0.010568&sll=40.67766,-74.400455&sspn=0.003881,0.010568&oq=hazle&t=h&hnear=Hazlet,+Monmouth,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.436973,-74.1411&panoid=iis7Mo3UMbwWMij9jCUWFA&cbp=12,42.24,,0,0

Here is a signal on Laurel Avenue near Keansburg, NJ that has what I am talking about.    Notice the cars turning left with other cars stopped on the opposing side, yet no arrow with the green.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hazlet,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.436969,-74.141096&spn=0.004156,0.010568&sll=40.67766,-74.400455&sspn=0.003881,0.010568&oq=hazle&t=h&hnear=Hazlet,+Monmouth,+New+Jersey&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.437176,-74.141002&panoid=UhDCjxDzfv9vOfx1-NINGg&cbp=12,357.24,,0,0

Now here is the google car making that  same protected left.  Jeff and Nicole said it best to back me up as it is quite common in New Jersey for this particular practice.

Wow!  Now I understand.  What a dumb idea that is!

Agreed.  It is bizarre.  In Illinois, there would be a four lamp signal head with a green arrow at the bottom for this type of intersection.

[hm insulators]

If I am not mistaken, both California and Southern Nevada also use ceramic buttons instead of the standard paint lane striping.  I have not seen these used anywhere else, although FDOT was experimenting with them on both FL 50 and I-4 in certain parts of Orlando.

Not in one state only, but in one region of the country.

Are you referring to Botts dots? I recall seeing those on Kauai in the Lihue area, though it's been almost 10 years since I visited there so I have no idea whether they're still in use.

When I lived on Kauai in the 1980s, both the main highways (50 and 56) out of Lihue had the yellow Botts dots. I don't know about the other islands.

[thenetwork]

Here in Colorado, the small Black-on-White reference marker signs posted by bridges, culverts and overhead sign gantries on numbered highways usually begin with a letter and number combination...This letter/number combo corresponds with where on the official Colorado State Highway Map you are.

So if a sign starts out by saying A-01-xxxxxxx Then you are in the extreme Northwest corner of the state (A-1).

I have also seen in Colorado that in many intersections with a protected left arrow and all lane lights are cycling from green/green arrow to yellow to red, many times the lane light with the protected turn arrow will change from yellow to red up to 1 second sooner that the other lights changing from yellow to red.  I know it sounds confusing, but I will try to get a video posted with a few examples.  I guess they do this to help prevent last-second or late left turning traffic in the intersection when the cross street gets their green.

[roadfro]

I have also seen in Colorado that in many intersections with a protected left arrow and all lane lights are cycling from green/green arrow to yellow to red, many times the lane light with the protected turn arrow will change from yellow to red up to 1 second sooner that the other lights changing from yellow to red.  I know it sounds confusing, but I will try to get a video posted with a few examples.  I guess they do this to help prevent last-second or late left turning traffic in the intersection when the cross street gets their green.

This happens in Reno, NV as well. The reason likely has to do with the duration of the yellow interval following the Institute of Transportation Engineers' recommended formula. One factor in the ITE formula is the 85th percentile speed of the movement divided by the safe stopping distance--with a turning movement being made at slower speeds, this factor ends up being smaller and results in an overall shorter yellow interval.

[roadman65]

From what I have seen as far as drawbridges go, New Jersey seems to implement two sets of gates to stop traffic during an opening.  The first is the lower down gate at the traffic signal that stops the traffic from crossing the span during operation.  Then there is another set of gates that are made of steel that are on opposite sides that close together.  At one time the inner gates had to be closed manually, which added to the wait time as the operator would have to leave his station and have to open and close four gates.

I have not seen this practice anywhere else, as other states have the one electric railroad type of gate that lowers with no extra manual or even automatic gates.

[Scott5114]

Here in Colorado, the small Black-on-White reference marker signs posted by bridges, culverts and overhead sign gantries on numbered highways usually begin with a letter and number combination...This letter/number combo corresponds with where on the official Colorado State Highway Map you are.

So if a sign starts out by saying A-01-xxxxxxx Then you are in the extreme Northwest corner of the state (A-1).

While the exact details of what's on the marker are probably unique to each state, Colorado is far from the only state to use the general concept of a reference marker. Oklahoma uses one that has the alphabetical county number on top (Adair County is 1, Woodward County is 77), control section number in the middle (a serial number assigned to defined lengths of road in a given county, such as SH-76 between the county line and SH-39 in McClain County), and the last line the mileage along that control section.

Colorado may be the only state that uses the official state map grid reference for such a purpose though. It makes a lot of sense.

[Road Hog]

Here in Colorado, the small Black-on-White reference marker signs posted by bridges, culverts and overhead sign gantries on numbered highways usually begin with a letter and number combination...This letter/number combo corresponds with where on the official Colorado State Highway Map you are.

So if a sign starts out by saying A-01-xxxxxxx Then you are in the extreme Northwest corner of the state (A-1).

While the exact details of what's on the marker are probably unique to each state, Colorado is far from the only state to use the general concept of a reference marker. Oklahoma uses one that has the alphabetical county number on top (Adair County is 1, Woodward County is 77), control section number in the middle (a serial number assigned to defined lengths of road in a given county, such as SH-76 between the county line and SH-39 in McClain County), and the last line the mileage along that control section.

Colorado may be the only state that uses the official state map grid reference for such a purpose though. It makes a lot of sense.

Sounds like Arkansas has similar mileage signage to Colorado. Those go beneath Type 3 object markers (vertical yellow-and-black striped) at the foot of bridges or sometimes culverts.

The reference marker is a black-on-white square consisting of the highway number, the section, and the mileage from the zero point of the section. The direction toward which the mileage is increasing gets a + sign.

Here is an example from bridgehunter.com taken by one of our own (at left of photo, never mind the WPA stamp):



Here is another, less-shotgun-damaged example:

[roadman65]

I found one that only New Jersey uses.  That is the mixture of 12 and 8 inch signal heads at one particular signalized intersections.  The Garden State at many intersections of State and County/ Municipal roads have them with 12 inch standard US heads on the State highway while the side local road uses 8 inch.  I have seen some places in Philadelphia and Bucks County, PA use both at one installation, but usually the 8 inch lenses are used for the side mounted signals while the overheads use the 12 inch at some intersections, but not exclusively for one direction each.

Then Ontario does not mount two signal heads on one mast arm.   Instead, another mast arm is brought in opposite of the primary one making a standard four way intersection have total of eight arms.  Unlike New Jersey where even though the signals are spaced far apart like as in Ontario, New Jersey would use a back to back system of two heads on one arm per side still limiting the mast arms to the same amounts, except on divided highways where you have extra arms extending from the median in some places as well as the usual corner mounts.

[empirestate]

Does NYC also prohibit right turn on red?

Technically, no. It's the state that prohibits it, in every city with a population over one million.

What NYC has done is declined to legalize RTOR, which it is empowered to do under the same statute.

[jeffandnicole]

I found one that only New Jersey uses.  That is the mixture of 12 and 8 inch signal heads at one particular signalized intersections.  The Garden State at many intersections of State and County/ Municipal roads have them with 12 inch standard US heads on the State highway while the side local road uses 8 inch. 

Even better (or uglier)...an 8" signal setup and a 12" signal setup ON THE SAME MAST!

(National Park, NJ): http://goo.gl/maps/9IJBF

[vtk]

I've seen mixtures of 8" and 12" signal heads in Ohio before.  One particularly common example is functionally the common doghouse, but the two arrow indications are on 12" heads next to the three 8" circular indications, so the five signal heads are in two columns of nearly-equal height.



Ohio's reference markers are found at bridges and culverts.  Sometimes they're wide like blade signs (bent around a bridge support pier) and sometimes they're squares, but neither type has a border.  Black text on white.  The information on them looks a bit like this:

ABC 67 1234

ABC is the three-letter ODOT-standard abbreviation for the county.  67 is the route number.  1234 is the in-county mileage in centimiles.  Or maybe millimiles; I can't remember for sure.  Interstates might use whole-state mileage, but again I'm not certain.

These are different from the little blue reference markers attached to ground-mounted BGS, and also different from the little green and white reference markers attached to light poles (in Columbus, anyway).

[roadman65]

I've seen mixtures of 8" and 12" signal heads in Ohio before.  One particularly common example is functionally the common doghouse, but the two arrow indications are on 12" heads next to the three 8" circular indications, so the five signal heads are in two columns of nearly-equal height.



Ohio's reference markers are found at bridges and culverts.  Sometimes they're wide like blade signs (bent around a bridge support pier) and sometimes they're squares, but neither type has a border.  Black text on white.  The information on them looks a bit like this:

ABC 67 1234

ABC is the three-letter ODOT-standard abbreviation for the county.  67 is the route number.  1234 is the in-county mileage in centimiles.  Or maybe millimiles; I can't remember for sure.  Interstates might use whole-state mileage, but again I'm not certain.

These are different from the little blue reference markers attached to ground-mounted BGS, and also different from the little green and white reference markers attached to light poles (in Columbus, anyway).

Yeah, I forgot that MD uses them as well as NYC (as pointed out by another user in a GSV) with the perfect doghouse as you say.

[707]

Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...

[NE2]

what

[jeffandnicole]

Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...

what

ONLY IN WASHINGTON DO YOU HAVE STATE ROUTES TAKING THE PLACE OF COUNTY ROADS...

Turn up your hearing aid next time!!!

[agentsteel53]

what the Hell is wrong with you?

that was the most worthless post I have seen in my four years on this forum.  and that includes the "Voyager Cosmic Bar" days.

to address the issue, lots of states have roads maintained by the state which are, in other states, county roads.

Virginia has lots of state secondary roads.  so does Missouri.  Florida went from having lots, to turning them all over to the counties in 1977.  I don't know offhand of a state that went the other way, buying up all the county roads and putting them under state maintenance. 

[SidS1045]

Does NYC also prohibit right turn on red?

Technically, no. It's the state that prohibits it, in every city with a population over one million.

What NYC has done is declined to legalize RTOR, which it is empowered to do under the same statute.

Technically, NYC banned RTOR long before the state banned it in cities over 1M population, in 1980.  Mayor LaGuardia signed the ordinance in the 1930's.

[Brandon]

Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...

What about Kentucky and Virginia?

[elsmere241]

Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...

What about Kentucky and Virginia?

Or Delaware or North Carolina?

[kphoger]

Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...

what

ONLY IN WASHINGTON DO YOU HAVE STATE ROUTES TAKING THE PLACE OF COUNTY ROADS...

Turn up your hearing aid next time!!!

Geez....  OK, let me rephrase NE2's question:

(1) What do you mean by "taking the place of", and

(2) Are you really sure that none of the other 49 states do what you describe?

[empirestate]

(2) Are you really sure that none of the other 49 states do what you describe?

As I read the topic question, that's not necessarily a deal breaker. We're only looking for things that make us think "only in this state!", not situations where it's definitely 100% true. You know, like if you see somebody holding a parking space with a lawn chair and think "only in Pittsburgh!" despite the fact that it's a common practice in various cities. Or if it snows in late March after a period of 60-degree, sunny weather, you think "only in Rochester!", despite this being a fairly typical weather pattern for early spring in many temperate areas.

[corco]

I can't even think of what county roads Washington has made a state highway lately... 397, I guess, but that's it in the last 10 years and was built with state funds anyway so whatever.

Washington has one of the more trimmed systems in the country...

[707]

I must have not been thinking straight when I posted. I realize that Wisconsin, Missouri, Kentucky, Virginia and many other states do the same thing as Washington. What I should have said is "Only in Washington do you get major highways crossing lakes and waterways on the world's largest floating bridges."

[707]

Only in Washington do you have state routes taking the place of county roads...

what

ONLY IN WASHINGTON DO YOU HAVE STATE ROUTES TAKING THE PLACE OF COUNTY ROADS...

Turn up your hearing aid next time!!!

But seriously, was this post necessary? I realize I goofed up and triggered a non-specific response, but still, there's no reason to scream as if a meteor is about to hit the earth.