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Author Topic: Scranton PA  (Read 1465 times)

AcE_Wolf_287

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Scranton PA
« on: March 22, 2020, 11:06:11 PM »

I wanted to make this page to Talk about Scranton, wasn't I-84 supposed to end at the Central Scranton Expressway spur to US 11 at I-81?

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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2020, 12:04:25 PM »

I wanted to make this page to Talk about Scranton, wasn't I-84 supposed to end at the Central Scranton Expressway spur to US 11 at I-81?

I believe not. If anything, I think it would have ended between Exits 182 and 184, although the terrain was a major factor in getting in its way. Traffic, for now, is alright as-is, though 81 needs relief yesterday.
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AcE_Wolf_287

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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2020, 01:38:49 PM »

I wanted to make this page to Talk about Scranton, wasn't I-84 supposed to end at the Central Scranton Expressway spur to US 11 at I-81?

I believe not. If anything, I think it would have ended between Exits 182 and 184, although the terrain was a major factor in getting in its way. Traffic, for now, is alright as-is, though 81 needs relief yesterday.

i was looking At I-84 one time and i saw I-84 not ending in Dunmore so i was just wondering, and also with I-476 how it goes on the western side of Scranton

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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2020, 08:00:17 PM »

I wanted to make this page to Talk about Scranton, wasn't I-84 supposed to end at the Central Scranton Expressway spur to US 11 at I-81?

I believe not. If anything, I think it would have ended between Exits 182 and 184, although the terrain was a major factor in getting in its way. Traffic, for now, is alright as-is, though 81 needs relief yesterday.

Penn DOT had once some plans for I-84 but the Moosic mountains would had been a very big engineering challenge.
http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I84.html
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AcE_Wolf_287

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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2020, 11:25:57 PM »

I wanted to make this page to Talk about Scranton, wasn't I-84 supposed to end at the Central Scranton Expressway spur to US 11 at I-81?

I believe not. If anything, I think it would have ended between Exits 182 and 184, although the terrain was a major factor in getting in its way. Traffic, for now, is alright as-is, though 81 needs relief yesterday.

Penn DOT had once some plans for I-84 but the Moosic mountains would had been a very big engineering challenge.
http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I84.html

Iíve Recently looked at the 1956 Map of Interstates and I saw I-84 along US 6 to Erie, would that be interesting (although there would be no need currently due to I-86 right on the other side of state Line)

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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2020, 11:50:47 PM »

I wanted to make this page to Talk about Scranton, wasn't I-84 supposed to end at the Central Scranton Expressway spur to US 11 at I-81?

I believe not. If anything, I think it would have ended between Exits 182 and 184, although the terrain was a major factor in getting in its way. Traffic, for now, is alright as-is, though 81 needs relief yesterday.

Penn DOT had once some plans for I-84 but the Moosic mountains would had been a very big engineering challenge.
http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I84.html

Iíve Recently looked at the 1956 Map of Interstates and I saw I-84 along US 6 to Erie, would that be interesting (although there would be no need currently due to I-86 right on the other side of state Line)
Yes, back when I-80 was proposed along what's now I-76. The US 6 corridor was studied but ultimately rejected in favor of one that "split the difference" between 6 and 22, which is now I-80. I think if a freeway had been built west to Erie from Scranton, you wouldn't have I-86/NY 17 freeway either.

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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2020, 12:10:16 AM »

I wanted to make this page to Talk about Scranton, wasn't I-84 supposed to end at the Central Scranton Expressway spur to US 11 at I-81?

I believe not. If anything, I think it would have ended between Exits 182 and 184, although the terrain was a major factor in getting in its way. Traffic, for now, is alright as-is, though 81 needs relief yesterday.

Penn DOT had once some plans for I-84 but the Moosic mountains would had been a very big engineering challenge.
http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I84.html

Iíve Recently looked at the 1956 Map of Interstates and I saw I-84 along US 6 to Erie, would that be interesting (although there would be no need currently due to I-86 right on the other side of state Line)
Yes, back when I-80 was proposed along what's now I-76. The US 6 corridor was studied but ultimately rejected in favor of one that "split the difference" between 6 and 22, which is now I-80. I think if a freeway had been built west to Erie from Scranton, you wouldn't have I-86/NY 17 freeway either.

Maybe a freeway could have been built between South Waverly and Scranton along the 220 and 6 corridors... but that's Fictional territory.
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Alps

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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2020, 11:47:05 AM »

I wanted to make this page to Talk about Scranton, wasn't I-84 supposed to end at the Central Scranton Expressway spur to US 11 at I-81?

I believe not. If anything, I think it would have ended between Exits 182 and 184, although the terrain was a major factor in getting in its way. Traffic, for now, is alright as-is, though 81 needs relief yesterday.

Penn DOT had once some plans for I-84 but the Moosic mountains would had been a very big engineering challenge.
http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I84.html

Iíve Recently looked at the 1956 Map of Interstates and I saw I-84 along US 6 to Erie, would that be interesting (although there would be no need currently due to I-86 right on the other side of state Line)
Yes, back when I-80 was proposed along what's now I-76. The US 6 corridor was studied but ultimately rejected in favor of one that "split the difference" between 6 and 22, which is now I-80. I think if a freeway had been built west to Erie from Scranton, you wouldn't have I-86/NY 17 freeway either.

Maybe a freeway could have been built between South Waverly and Scranton along the 220 and 6 corridors... but that's Fictional territory.
Having "Done 6" through PA, that highway absolutely needs some kind of relief, but with I-80 and I-86 both there, it's not freeway. Bypasses of small towns and realignments with PASSING LANES would suffice.

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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2020, 02:25:43 PM »

I wanted to make this page to Talk about Scranton, wasn't I-84 supposed to end at the Central Scranton Expressway spur to US 11 at I-81?

I believe not. If anything, I think it would have ended between Exits 182 and 184, although the terrain was a major factor in getting in its way. Traffic, for now, is alright as-is, though 81 needs relief yesterday.

Penn DOT had once some plans for I-84 but the Moosic mountains would had been a very big engineering challenge.
http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I84.html

Iíve Recently looked at the 1956 Map of Interstates and I saw I-84 along US 6 to Erie, would that be interesting (although there would be no need currently due to I-86 right on the other side of state Line)
Yes, back when I-80 was proposed along what's now I-76. The US 6 corridor was studied but ultimately rejected in favor of one that "split the difference" between 6 and 22, which is now I-80. I think if a freeway had been built west to Erie from Scranton, you wouldn't have I-86/NY 17 freeway either.

Maybe a freeway could have been built between South Waverly and Scranton along the 220 and 6 corridors... but that's Fictional territory.
Having "Done 6" through PA, that highway absolutely needs some kind of relief, but with I-80 and I-86 both there, it's not freeway. Bypasses of small towns and realignments with PASSING LANES would suffice.

idk, US 6 wouldn't really warrant a freeway going through the small towns, i would say Upgrade US 6 between Scarnton and Future I-99/US 15 (i believe its Mansfield ?)

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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2020, 02:45:12 PM »

6 does not need a freeway between Mansfield and Scranton.

The stretch moves pretty quick. I don't think the traffic warrants it either.
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2020, 10:06:55 AM »

I wanted to make this page to Talk about Scranton, wasn't I-84 supposed to end at the Central Scranton Expressway spur to US 11 at I-81?

I believe not. If anything, I think it would have ended between Exits 182 and 184, although the terrain was a major factor in getting in its way. Traffic, for now, is alright as-is, though 81 needs relief yesterday.

Penn DOT had once some plans for I-84 but the Moosic mountains would had been a very big engineering challenge.
http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I84.html

Iíve Recently looked at the 1956 Map of Interstates and I saw I-84 along US 6 to Erie, would that be interesting (although there would be no need currently due to I-86 right on the other side of state Line)

   Used to consider 84 W of NY 17 as "surplus" until the realization it was to be part of a far flung NYC bypass.   I-81 to I-84 E completely avoids the NYC metro.   
   The original idea of I-80 was to follow the US-6 corridor in Pennsylvania.  A rooftop type of route.
The development of the Keystone Shortway (today's 80 corridor) was to provide a straighter shot from NYC to industrial centers in the Midwest.  Although believe the terrain of both routes (Shortway and Rooftop) are about the same.   
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2020, 03:46:31 PM »

I-84 would have continued west of its stack interchange with I-380 and I-380 would be solo into Scranton where it is signed as concurrency (as some think I-380 ends at I-84).  In fact I-380 was there first on that questionable concurrency, as I-84 tied in later in the late 70's so I-84 never was signed on I-380 until after it all was completed.

In fact, I-84 had several western terminuses in PA.  That is why Port Jervis was the WB control city for decades on NY 17 because at one time WB I-84 ended right before it as PA built their segments westward after NY did. 
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2020, 10:07:30 PM »

I wanted to make this page to Talk about Scranton, wasn't I-84 supposed to end at the Central Scranton Expressway spur to US 11 at I-81?

I believe not. If anything, I think it would have ended between Exits 182 and 184, although the terrain was a major factor in getting in its way. Traffic, for now, is alright as-is, though 81 needs relief yesterday.

Penn DOT had once some plans for I-84 but the Moosic mountains would had been a very big engineering challenge.
http://www.pahighways.com/interstates/I84.html

Iíve Recently looked at the 1956 Map of Interstates and I saw I-84 along US 6 to Erie, would that be interesting (although there would be no need currently due to I-86 right on the other side of state Line)

   Used to consider 84 W of NY 17 as "surplus" until the realization it was to be part of a far flung NYC bypass.   I-81 to I-84 E completely avoids the NYC metro.   
   The original idea of I-80 was to follow the US-6 corridor in Pennsylvania.  A rooftop type of route.
The development of the Keystone Shortway (today's 80 corridor) was to provide a straighter shot from NYC to industrial centers in the Midwest.  Although believe the terrain of both routes (Shortway and Rooftop) are about the same.


Who's to say there couldn't be a rooftop built today? And doesn't I-80-81-84 do the same sort of thing?
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2020, 07:37:11 AM »

If US 6 had been the chosen freeway corridor, I think it would have potentially replaced BOTH I-80 and I-86.
I-80 in PA doesn't go through any towns/cities of significance that would have required a freeway, while NY 17 would have probably remained expressway-grade or maybe even 2-lane on some portions instead of being upgraded to I-86.
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2020, 09:11:32 AM »

I-80 in PA doesn't go through any towns/cities of significance that would have required a freeway

The Stroudsburgs don't rate a bypass iyo?
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2020, 02:12:59 PM »

I-80 in PA doesn't go through any towns/cities of significance that would have required a freeway

The Stroudsburgs don't rate a bypass iyo?
They had US 611 and US 209 already built pre-Interstate. Those would have stayed.

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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2020, 07:49:23 PM »

Yeah, I meant as a long distance corridor across the state. The Stroudsburgs are big enough for a freeway bypass, but they don't warrant a 2di on their own if I-80 was located along US 6 or elsewhere.
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2020, 09:39:44 PM »

If US 6 had been the chosen freeway corridor, I think it would have potentially replaced BOTH I-80 and I-86.
I-80 in PA doesn't go through any towns/cities of significance that would have required a freeway, while NY 17 would have probably remained expressway-grade or maybe even 2-lane on some portions instead of being upgraded to I-86.
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2020, 06:56:13 PM »

If US 6 had been the chosen freeway corridor, I think it would have potentially replaced BOTH I-80 and I-86.
I-80 in PA doesn't go through any towns/cities of significance that would have required a freeway, while NY 17 would have probably remained expressway-grade or maybe even 2-lane on some portions instead of being upgraded to I-86.

Guess higher acquisition costs along a rooftop route made it less palatable, also. There are quite a few smallish towns along US 6 in northern Pennsylvania.   The shortway went through largely unpopulated forest.   
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2020, 07:21:14 PM »

If US 6 had been the chosen freeway corridor, I think it would have potentially replaced BOTH I-80 and I-86.
I-80 in PA doesn't go through any towns/cities of significance that would have required a freeway, while NY 17 would have probably remained expressway-grade or maybe even 2-lane on some portions instead of being upgraded to I-86.

Guess higher acquisition costs along a rooftop route made it less palatable, also. There are quite a few smallish towns along US 6 in northern Pennsylvania.   The shortway went through largely unpopulated forest.   

Then if we go a step further, would US-22 and some north-south corridors like US-220 and US-219 still receiving some upgrades?

Btw, here one more roadgeek souvenir I saw. http://web.archive.org/web/20010210013003/www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~mn2n/tollun.html

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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2020, 07:58:57 PM »

  The passage of the 1956 legislation made authorization of additional toll roads or authorities largely irrelevant.  The infusion of large quantities of Federal monies (the 90/10 split) made long distance toll roads after that point unnecessary.   The ones that were finished by that point (Maine Tpke, NJ Tpke, Penn Tpke, Ohio Tpke), or under construction (Ind Tpke, Kan Tpke, Mass Tpke) were absorbed into the system for connectivity.   And the authorities continued to exist, even after bonds were paid off.
Am of belief the Conn Tpke was the only major one to have been decommissioned.   
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 08:01:41 PM by DJStephens »
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2020, 10:17:40 PM »

  The passage of the 1956 legislation made authorization of additional toll roads or authorities largely irrelevant.  The infusion of large quantities of Federal monies (the 90/10 split) made long distance toll roads after that point unnecessary.   The ones that were finished by that point (Maine Tpke, NJ Tpke, Penn Tpke, Ohio Tpke), or under construction (Ind Tpke, Kan Tpke, Mass Tpke) were absorbed into the system for connectivity.

Although I-88 in Illinois would be an exception to this.
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2020, 01:46:21 PM »

  The passage of the 1956 legislation made authorization of additional toll roads or authorities largely irrelevant.  The infusion of large quantities of Federal monies (the 90/10 split) made long distance toll roads after that point unnecessary.   The ones that were finished by that point (Maine Tpke, NJ Tpke, Penn Tpke, Ohio Tpke), or under construction (Ind Tpke, Kan Tpke, Mass Tpke) were absorbed into the system for connectivity.

Although I-88 in Illinois would be an exception to this.

Would some of the Kentucky Parkways who became part of I-69 and turned into interstates like I-165, I-169 are included or it's close but no cigar?
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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2020, 07:29:12 AM »

  The passage of the 1956 legislation made authorization of additional toll roads or authorities largely irrelevant.  The infusion of large quantities of Federal monies (the 90/10 split) made long distance toll roads after that point unnecessary.   The ones that were finished by that point (Maine Tpke, NJ Tpke, Penn Tpke, Ohio Tpke), or under construction (Ind Tpke, Kan Tpke, Mass Tpke) were absorbed into the system for connectivity.   And the authorities continued to exist, even after bonds were paid off.
Am of belief the Conn Tpke was the only major one to have been decommissioned.   

Delaware Turnpike, JFK Memorial Highway (95 between Baltimore and I-295 in DE) Built as a toll road due to funding not being available soon enough. they needed the highway now, and a toll bond issue was the quickest way. Built post 1956.


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Re: Scranton PA
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2020, 12:07:43 PM »

  The passage of the 1956 legislation made authorization of additional toll roads or authorities largely irrelevant.  The infusion of large quantities of Federal monies (the 90/10 split) made long distance toll roads after that point unnecessary.   The ones that were finished by that point (Maine Tpke, NJ Tpke, Penn Tpke, Ohio Tpke), or under construction (Ind Tpke, Kan Tpke, Mass Tpke) were absorbed into the system for connectivity.   And the authorities continued to exist, even after bonds were paid off.
Am of belief the Conn Tpke was the only major one to have been decommissioned.   

Delaware Turnpike, JFK Memorial Highway (95 between Baltimore and I-295 in DE) Built as a toll road due to funding not being available soon enough. they needed the highway now, and a toll bond issue was the quickest way. Built post 1956.

Obviously toll bonding was quickest (heck, the road was probably needed at the same time the DMB and NJTP were built).  What other options for expediting funds for the JFK Highway were explored?
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