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Author Topic: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway  (Read 137980 times)

mgk920

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #500 on: November 07, 2017, 12:06:02 PM »

It seems to me that the only reason the 390 / 490 projects are being built is because the ISTHA is bored and needs something to do.  the north 53 extension / 120 improvements are much more needed, but who knows what's going to happen with that.

On that note, I'm kind of wondering if there are any projects downstate that the ISTHA could be interested in taking over so that they can get built more quickly.

Mike
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #501 on: November 07, 2017, 12:53:49 PM »

It seems to me that the only reason the 390 / 490 projects are being built is because the ISTHA is bored and needs something to do.  the north 53 extension / 120 improvements are much more needed, but who knows what's going to happen with that.

On that note, I'm kind of wondering if there are any projects downstate that the ISTHA could be interested in taking over so that they can get built more quickly.

Mike
I can think of some Chicago land stuff to take over and toll
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dvferyance

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #502 on: November 07, 2017, 05:14:49 PM »

RIP Thorndale Ave.

Thorndale is now the service drive for the eastern EOE.
I see kind of like what Verona Rd became in Madison frontage service roads.
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Revive 755

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #503 on: November 07, 2017, 06:50:24 PM »

On that note, I'm kind of wondering if there are any projects downstate that the ISTHA could be interested in taking over so that they can get built more quickly.

Mike

I've heard but never confirmed there is something in the Illinois codified statutes that prevent ISTHA from doing projects downstate.  Then there is also some opposition to tolling downstate, as demonstrated during the during the development of the I-70 bridge in the St. Louis area.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #504 on: November 07, 2017, 07:37:41 PM »

It seems to me that the only reason the 390 / 490 projects are being built is because the ISTHA is bored and needs something to do.  the north 53 extension / 120 improvements are much more needed, but who knows what's going to happen with that.

On that note, I'm kind of wondering if there are any projects downstate that the ISTHA could be interested in taking over so that they can get built more quickly.

Mike
What all Downstate projects would have the traffic counts to warrant toll financed bonds? Unless Chicagoland Tolls are to subsidize Downstate Tollroads (thinking the West end of ISTHA's part of I-88 presently, or the whole state of PA being subsidized by the PA Turnpike Tolls)

The IL 336 Macomb to Peoria project I doubt would warrant toll financing.
US 20 to Dubuque from Rockford? I doubt it.
The I-474/I-180 connector Freeway north of Peoria along the IL River? I-39 isn't that far away as a Shunpike option.
US 51 continued upgrade to at least Divided Expressway, if not full Interstate 39 extension towards Salem/I-57? Depends how much time it would ultimately save between Salem and Bloomington/Normal, compared to the Shunpike/existing free route of I-57/I-74.

Otherwise, current Interstate corridors that might need expansion/rebuilding, might be more viable for tolling. But its a bit more of a chore to toll an existing free Interstate
I-57 from I-24 to I-64
I-70, I-80, I-55 across the state

My totally fictional one (which has been studied and didn't pass the test): Build I-24 Westward extension across Southern IL and Southeastern MO, and then link it up to the Avenue of the Saints in/near St Louis, to have a nice Twin Cities to Chattanooga corridor, and ISTHA can take the lead in IL and toll from Marion to the MS River crossing, wherever it would end up

One that I think might be viable for tolling, stays more in the greater Chicagoland area: Study with Indiana, the Illiana (mostly in IL) in combination with a US 30 Freeway upgrade in Indiana, connecting to the current US 30 Freeway in Ohio, and advance that as New/Future Interstate 80. I'm guessing that upgrade would have to be tolled anyway, depending on the Concession language of the Indiana Toll Road lease and free alternatives

Back to the original topic of the Elgin/O'Hare Tollway: How long will Google Maps take to show IL 390 east of I-290? And better yet, how long before Google Maps can use a 390 Route Marker instead of text-only reference to IL 390?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 08:44:13 PM by ilpt4u »
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SSOWorld

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #505 on: November 07, 2017, 08:49:33 PM »

It seems to me that the only reason the 390 / 490 projects are being built is because the ISTHA is bored and needs something to do.  the north 53 extension / 120 improvements are much more needed, but who knows what's going to happen with that.

On that note, I'm kind of wondering if there are any projects downstate that the ISTHA could be interested in taking over so that they can get built more quickly.

Mike
What all Downstate projects would have the traffic counts to warrant toll financed bonds? Unless Chicagoland Tolls are to subsidize Downstate Tollroads (thinking the West end of ISTHA's part of I-88 presently, or the whole state of PA being subsidized by the PA Turnpike Tolls)

The IL 336 Macomb to Peoria project I doubt would warrant toll financing.
US 20 to Dubuque from Rockford? I doubt it.
The I-474/I-180 connector Freeway north of Peoria along the IL River? I-39 isn't that far away as a Shunpike option.
US 51 continued upgrade to at least Divided Expressway, if not full Interstate 39 extension towards Salem/I-57? Depends how much time it would ultimately save between Salem and Bloomington/Normal, compared to the Shunpike/existing free route of I-57/I-74.

Otherwise, current Interstate corridors that might need expansion/rebuilding, might be more viable for tolling. But its a bit more of a chore to toll an existing free Interstate
I-57 from I-24 to I-64
I-70, I-80, I-55 across the state

My totally fictional one (which has been studied and didn't pass the test): Build I-24 Westward extension across Southern IL and Southeastern MO, and then link it up to the Avenue of the Saints in/near St Louis, to have a nice Twin Cities to Chattanooga corridor, and ISTHA can take the lead in IL and toll from Marion to the MS River crossing, wherever it would end up

One that I think might be viable for tolling, stays more in the greater Chicagoland area: Study with Indiana, the Illiana (mostly in IL) in combination with a US 30 Freeway upgrade in Indiana, connecting to the current US 30 Freeway in Ohio, and advance that as New/Future Interstate 80. I'm guessing that upgrade would have to be tolled anyway, depending on the Concession language of the Indiana Toll Road lease and free alternatives

Back to the original topic of the Elgin/O'Hare Tollway: How long will Google Maps take to show IL 390 east of I-290? And better yet, how long before Google Maps can use a 390 Route Marker instead of text-only reference to IL 390?
US 51 south of Bloomington never deserved the 4-lane.  It only got it because Decatur wanted it.  It's all at-grade with varying speed zones that are reduced at every single traffic light intersection.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #506 on: November 07, 2017, 09:02:19 PM »

US 51 south of Bloomington never deserved the 4-lane.  It only got it because Decatur wanted it.  It's all at-grade with varying speed zones that are reduced at every single traffic light intersection.
I believe it got it, because ADM wanted it. The segment from Bloomington/Normal to Decatur really could use Grade-Separation

IDOT keeps pushing it further South. Its almost 4 Lane Divided all the way to Pana now
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thenetwork

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #507 on: November 07, 2017, 09:24:20 PM »

Could ISHTA build a tolled "Express Lane" 2nd bridge on I-270 over the waterways at the Mississippi?  The traffic counts there and congestion could warrant an additional crossing just north of the current I-270 Alignment.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #508 on: November 07, 2017, 09:30:53 PM »

Could ISHTA build a tolled "Express Lane" 2nd bridge on I-270 over the waterways at the Mississippi?  The traffic counts there and congestion could warrant an additional crossing just north of the current I-270 Alignment.
I don't see why not -- but keep in mind, when tolls were proposed to help pay for the Stan Musial/I-70 bridge Downtown...well, that proposal got put down, hard.

The actual MS River bridge would have to have some sort of cooperation/agreement with Missouri, I would think
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Finrod

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #509 on: November 07, 2017, 09:34:44 PM »

One that I think might be viable for tolling, stays more in the greater Chicagoland area: Study with Indiana, the Illiana (mostly in IL) in combination with a US 30 Freeway upgrade in Indiana, connecting to the current US 30 Freeway in Ohio, and advance that as New/Future Interstate 80. I'm guessing that upgrade would have to be tolled anyway, depending on the Concession language of the Indiana Toll Road lease and free alternatives

I'm in favor of this, though I'd just number it as an extension of I-76.
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #510 on: November 08, 2017, 10:28:05 AM »

It seems to me that the only reason the 390 / 490 projects are being built is because the ISTHA is bored and needs something to do.  the north 53 extension / 120 improvements are much more needed, but who knows what's going to happen with that.
there also a push for tolled lanes on I-290 and I-55 in Chicago.
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #511 on: November 08, 2017, 10:59:28 PM »

I-290 to IL-83 in 1M and 37S Tolling point times I think It really took about 2 Min.
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johndoe780

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #512 on: November 09, 2017, 02:51:17 PM »

US 51 south of Bloomington never deserved the 4-lane.  It only got it because Decatur wanted it.  It's all at-grade with varying speed zones that are reduced at every single traffic light intersection.
I believe it got it, because ADM wanted it. The segment from Bloomington/Normal to Decatur really could use Grade-Separation

IDOT keeps pushing it further South. Its almost 4 Lane Divided all the way to Pana now

Why didn't they just grade seperate 51 instead then to at least Decatur?
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Revive 755

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #513 on: November 09, 2017, 11:32:25 PM »

Could ISHTA build a tolled "Express Lane" 2nd bridge on I-270 over the waterways at the Mississippi?  The traffic counts there and congestion could warrant an additional crossing just north of the current I-270 Alignment.
I don't see why not -- but keep in mind, when tolls were proposed to help pay for the Stan Musial/I-70 bridge Downtown...well, that proposal got put down, hard.

The actual MS River bridge would have to have some sort of cooperation/agreement with Missouri, I would think

I don't think Missouri would object, given how much they wanted to toll the I-70 bridge, and would like to toll I-70 across Missouri.  Since IIRC it is easier to toll an existing free interstate bridge compared to a corridor, it would be possible to toll I-270 for both replacing the existing bridge and/or building a companion span.

IMHO the portion of the now-dead Gateway Connector between I-55/I-70 at Troy to I-64 near Scott Air Force Base might have been a good candidate for a downstate ISTHA project.  Perhaps the I-64 to IL 15 portion as well.
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hobsini2

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #514 on: November 12, 2017, 08:18:56 PM »

US 51 south of Bloomington never deserved the 4-lane.  It only got it because Decatur wanted it.  It's all at-grade with varying speed zones that are reduced at every single traffic light intersection.
I believe it got it, because ADM wanted it. The segment from Bloomington/Normal to Decatur really could use Grade-Separation

IDOT keeps pushing it further South. Its almost 4 Lane Divided all the way to Pana now

Why didn't they just grade seperate 51 instead then to at least Decatur?
Probably didn't think it needed it at the time much the same way that it was not until about 1990 or so that Wisconsin treat US 41 as a true freeway. There were several cross roads on 41 between US 45 in Richfield and Wis 26  by Oshkosh as well as between Kaukauna and DePere.
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #515 on: November 15, 2017, 10:02:09 PM »

US 51 south of Bloomington never deserved the 4-lane.  It only got it because Decatur wanted it.  It's all at-grade with varying speed zones that are reduced at every single traffic light intersection.
I believe it got it, because ADM wanted it. The segment from Bloomington/Normal to Decatur really could use Grade-Separation

IDOT keeps pushing it further South. Its almost 4 Lane Divided all the way to Pana now

Why didn't they just grade seperate 51 instead then to at least Decatur?
Probably didn't think it needed it at the time much the same way that it was not until about 1990 or so that Wisconsin treat US 41 as a true freeway. There were several cross roads on 41 between US 45 in Richfield and Wis 26  by Oshkosh as well as between Kaukauna and DePere.

It's kind of a long story as to why US 51 didn't become a freeway south of Bloomington. As you all probably know, FAP 412 (US 51) was suppose to be a freeway from Rockford to I-57 near Salem, but in the 1960s/70s, only the area between Rockford and Decatur was prioritized due to higher traffic and major safety concerns (traffic was not as high south of Decatur).

Long story short, US 51 was suppose to become a freeway between Bloomington and Decatur (on a new alignment west of the existing one), but it ran into major opposition (farmers were furious at the amount of land being taken out of production, this was before Interstate-standards changed to take less farmland) and a lack of funding. This stemmed from a huge debate in the 1970s as to how the new FAP 412 should be built. IDOT wanted the whole road (between Rockford and Decatur) a freeway/Interstate, but a transportation committee established to review the proposed supplemental freeway system only recommended freeway/Interstate north of I-80. From La-Salle-Peru south to Decatur, US 51 would have simply become a divided highway similar to what was ultimately built between Bloomington and Decatur.

There is much more to it then that, but you get the point. See my old thread on I-39/US 51 (FAP 412) History for more info on this.
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #516 on: November 23, 2017, 10:44:03 PM »

Also, is there any near-term possibility for the ISTHA to adapt the 'pay by mail' plate photo thing that other tollway and bridge/tunnel authorities use on their open road/electronic tolls?

ISTHA does pay online rather than 'pay by mail' plate photo thing.  If you pay online within 7 days, it's merely the cash rate (twice the I-Pass rate) with no other fees or fines attached (unlike some other agencies do).

The rates are here: https://www.illinoistollway.com/tolling-information

Frankly, I wish every toll agency did it that way. If I was driving on a particular road as part of a trip only once such that I didn't think it worth getting a transponder prior to the trip, I'd rather be able to pay online just after I've used the road rather than waiting for that toll agency to send me a bill in the mail.

Agreed.  Let's do away with punitive fees for not having a transponder and getting rid of toll booths completely.   Something needs to be done about the punitive fees for rental cars as well.  With enough investment, the interchanges at toll booths can be modernized as well.

Massachusetts is also going through a major open road tolling initiative where they are working on fixing some of the interchanges near the former toll booths.  It's leading to more efficient roadways and a lot of surplus land where the toll booths used to be.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 11:04:26 PM by mrsman »
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SSOWorld

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #517 on: November 24, 2017, 08:09:32 AM »

Do you think the punitive fees for rental cars are charged by the agency.  My bet is the rental car companies are adding them.
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Scott O.

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #518 on: November 24, 2017, 08:29:09 PM »

Do you think the punitive fees for rental cars are charged by the agency.  My bet is the rental car companies are adding them.

The rental car companies are adding them.
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SSOWorld

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #519 on: November 25, 2017, 12:55:51 AM »

Do you think the punitive fees for rental cars are charged by the agency.  My bet is the rental car companies are adding them.

The rental car companies are adding them.
What I thought. I didn't want to assume.  Point is the rental car companies want their fair share. Last time I rented a car in IL (2013) I used my own I-PASS. (Flew in from LAX).  They had no issue.  Nowadays that may be different.
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kkt

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #520 on: November 25, 2017, 01:56:24 AM »

The rental car companies want 3x to 10x as much as the actual toll is, and call it their fair share.
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #521 on: November 29, 2017, 11:44:42 PM »

Could ISHTA build a tolled "Express Lane" 2nd bridge on I-270 over the waterways at the Mississippi?  The traffic counts there and congestion could warrant an additional crossing just north of the current I-270 Alignment.

Most of the bridges crossing the Mississippi at one time were tolled. The MacArthur, Veterans, Chain of Rocks, McKinley (owned by a railroad).  I think only the Eads Bridge wasn't but it was strictly local traffic.  When the Poplar Street Bridge opened (I-70/I-55) many of those urban toll bridges began to decline.

The I-270 bridge opening was delayed over and over in the 1960's due to lawsuits from the owner of the Chain of Rocks Bridge.  The bondholders knew a free bridge would be their demise. They lost in court and they dribbled on for a few more years until they filed BK.  Now its a public walkway.  My uncle crossed the C-O-R Bridge for years from the 50's until 270 opened and used to complain about all the Schlitz beer ads plastered on the beams as you crossed.  Said it promoted drunk driving. The toll collector said it paid the electric bills to keep it lit at night.

A tollroad in Southern Illinois (IMHO) would probably complete the US50 project that was abandoned between O'Fallon (I-64) east to Lake Carlyle. Studies are currently underway by IDOT to see if they can get it finished right now.  Other than the Quincy/StL route, I can't think of any other toll candidate south of Chicago. FHA planners have desired a better truck route between the Twin Cities and StL for quite a while. IDOT wants it to connect to the CKC/I-172 on the north end down to I-255 north of Alton.

IDOT does have a plan for US51 "Pana Bypass" which would take it all the way to a new alignment at I-70 in Vandalia.  IDOT has wanted a 4 lane "spine line" with US51 for many, many years from Rockford to Cairo.

IDOT would really like to finish US20 all the way to East Dubuque to promote tourism into Galena.  Iowa DOT has done such a great job at upgrading US20 west of Dubuque that if IDOT can get it done along with a new Mississippi River bridge it would prove a great E-W corridor that avoids the Quad Cities and I-90 across Minnesota. Right now its old 2 lane ROW west of Freeport to East Dubuque.
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #522 on: November 30, 2017, 01:07:52 PM »

Could ISHTA build a tolled "Express Lane" 2nd bridge on I-270 over the waterways at the Mississippi?  The traffic counts there and congestion could warrant an additional crossing just north of the current I-270 Alignment.

Most of the bridges crossing the Mississippi at one time were tolled. The MacArthur, Veterans, Chain of Rocks, McKinley (owned by a railroad).  I think only the Eads Bridge wasn't but it was strictly local traffic.  When the Poplar Street Bridge opened (I-70/I-55) many of those urban toll bridges began to decline.

The I-270 bridge opening was delayed over and over in the 1960's due to lawsuits from the owner of the Chain of Rocks Bridge.  The bondholders knew a free bridge would be their demise. They lost in court and they dribbled on for a few more years until they filed BK.  Now its a public walkway.  My uncle crossed the C-O-R Bridge for years from the 50's until 270 opened and used to complain about all the Schlitz beer ads plastered on the beams as you crossed.  Said it promoted drunk driving. The toll collector said it paid the electric bills to keep it lit at night.

A tollroad in Southern Illinois (IMHO) would probably complete the US50 project that was abandoned between O'Fallon (I-64) east to Lake Carlyle. Studies are currently underway by IDOT to see if they can get it finished right now.  Other than the Quincy/StL route, I can't think of any other toll candidate south of Chicago. FHA planners have desired a better truck route between the Twin Cities and StL for quite a while. IDOT wants it to connect to the CKC/I-172 on the north end down to I-255 north of Alton.

IDOT does have a plan for US51 "Pana Bypass" which would take it all the way to a new alignment at I-70 in Vandalia.  IDOT has wanted a 4 lane "spine line" with US51 for many, many years from Rockford to Cairo.

IDOT would really like to finish US20 all the way to East Dubuque to promote tourism into Galena.  Iowa DOT has done such a great job at upgrading US20 west of Dubuque that if IDOT can get it done along with a new Mississippi River bridge it would prove a great E-W corridor that avoids the Quad Cities and I-90 across Minnesota. Right now its old 2 lane ROW west of Freeport to East Dubuque.

if they toll us-20 will they also toll the Rockford bypass and freeport bypass
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #523 on: November 30, 2017, 08:39:20 PM »

Could ISHTA build a tolled "Express Lane" 2nd bridge on I-270 over the waterways at the Mississippi?  The traffic counts there and congestion could warrant an additional crossing just north of the current I-270 Alignment.

Most of the bridges crossing the Mississippi at one time were tolled. The MacArthur, Veterans, Chain of Rocks, McKinley (owned by a railroad).  I think only the Eads Bridge wasn't but it was strictly local traffic.  When the Poplar Street Bridge opened (I-70/I-55) many of those urban toll bridges began to decline.

IIRC, the Eads was tolled until it closed in the 1990's.  I believe the PSB and Stan Musial Bridge are the only crossing locations that have not been tolled during their existence - want to say tolls came off the old Jefferson Barracks Bridge in 1958; off the MLK sometime in the 1990's; and have no idea for the old Clark Bridge.

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #524 on: March 20, 2018, 10:16:32 PM »

Has anyone been following the recent O'Hare expansion news? It seems they are going to build a new western screening/parking facility in the upcoming expansion with access from the new York Road ramp they are building as part of the EOWA. The facility will initially be for employee's only, but will eventually expand to include passengers in Phase 2 (which will come when O'Hare hits 100 million passengers). At that point, they may include ramps into the facility from the actual IL-390/I-490. Details can be found in the following document.

https://chicago.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=5865932&GUID=47615DD9-B4CF-4C80-974F-DACB35050FA0 (Warning, this is a 300+ page document, so it may take a bit to load).

Thoughts?
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