Who here uses a GPS?

[US81]

^^^
Most other places don't have service roads so the terminology is inherently different, but no, that's not how it's done elsewhere. Everywhere else I've been, the direction refers to the direction if travel and is consistent with the signs. It was jarring having the GPS tell me to turn right onto "I35 North" when I had to follow the sign for "I35 South".

It had not occurred to me - service roads make the difference.  Thanks for the info.

Now I have a great "excuse" to buy a GPS and take an out-of-state Road Trip!   

[PHLBOS]

Here's an update regarding that fore-mentioned bus accident in Boston earlier this month from an article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer.  While the primary focus of the article is on one of the more severely injured student (16 year-old Matt Cruz) still being in the hospital; the latter part of the article mentions the GPS issue:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20130221_Mother_agonizes_as_son_recovers_from_bus-crash_injuries.html

Key Excerpts (bold emphasis added):

The Cruz family has sued the bus company, Calvary Coach of West Philadelphia, and driver Samuel J. Jackson, 66, alleging that Jackson should have seen height-restriction signs.

After the crash, Raymond Talmadge, owner of Calvary, told NBC10 that Jackson was looking down at his GPS and missed the signs. Reached by phone on Thursday, Talmadge declined to comment.

Personal take on this, and yes I'm sounding like a broken record, the driver should've been paying attention to the road & its signs, and not have been over-reliant on his GPS.  If he did indeed got on Soldier's Field Road by mistake (by making a premature right turn when he thought he was trying to get on the Mass Pike (I-90) at the Allston/Brighton/Cambridge interchange), he could have just exited off before the low overpass and proceeded back to the Pike on-ramp.

Given the fact that the accident occurred while returning from Harvard Univ., means he arrived there earlier without incident or using Soldier's Field Road.

Sadly, as we've seen w/cell phones & texting; it will only be a matter of when not if some government bureaucrat will propose legislation either restricting or outright banning the use of GPS navigation systems in motor vehicles.  All it takes is one more incident of this magnitude or higher (i.e. involving a death) to do it.

You heard it here first.

[jeffandnicole]

And with all the rules and regulations regarding CDL licenses, along with all the maps and information available to CDL drivers regarding suggested and prohibited routes, it's amazing how many of these drivers will pick up a regular GPS meant for passenger vehicles and rely on that.

[Brandon]

And with all the rules and regulations regarding CDL licenses, along with all the maps and information available to CDL drivers regarding suggested and prohibited routes, it's amazing how many of these drivers will pick up a regular GPS meant for passenger vehicles and rely on that.

Cost.  They're cheap and act like it too.

[roadman]

Here's an update regarding that fore-mentioned bus accident in Boston earlier this month from an article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer.  While the primary focus of the article is on one of the more severely injured student (16 year-old Matt Cruz) still being in the hospital; the latter part of the article mentions the GPS issue:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20130221_Mother_agonizes_as_son_recovers_from_bus-crash_injuries.html

Key Excerpts (bold emphasis added):

The Cruz family has sued the bus company, Calvary Coach of West Philadelphia, and driver Samuel J. Jackson, 66, alleging that Jackson should have seen height-restriction signs.

After the crash, Raymond Talmadge, owner of Calvary, told NBC10 that Jackson was looking down at his GPS and missed the signs. Reached by phone on Thursday, Talmadge declined to comment.

Personal take on this, and yes I'm sounding like a broken record, the driver should've been paying attention to the road & its signs, and not have been over-reliant on his GPS.  If he did indeed got on Soldier's Field Road by mistake (by making a premature right turn when he thought he was trying to get on the Mass Pike (I-90) at the Allston/Brighton/Cambridge interchange), he could have just exited off before the low overpass and proceeded back to the Pike on-ramp.

Given the fact that the accident occurred while returning from Harvard Univ., means he arrived there earlier without incident or using Soldier's Field Road.

Sadly, as we've seen w/cell phones & texting; it will only be a matter of when not if some government bureaucrat will propose legislation either restricting or outright banning the use of GPS navigation systems in motor vehicles.  All it takes is one more incident of this magnitude or higher (i.e. involving a death) to do it.

You heard it here first.

I understand your point (and share your concerns) about distractions.  I also firmly believe that a commercial driver that places "blind faith" on a consumer-grade GPS receiver probably shouldn't even have a CDL.  However, while I'm not defending the bus driver's actions here, I believe his reliance on GPS wasn't the sole cause of this crash.

For one thing, the height restriction signs on Soldier's Field Road, Storrow Drive, and Memorial Drive state only "Low Clearance" and do not give the actual clearance (10.0 feet at Western Avenue, but 9'-6" at other locations). Consider that the driver no doubt passed numerous Low Clearance signs (stating 14'-6" or similar heights) on his route from Pennsylvania to Cambridge and safely passed under every one of those bridges.  Even if he saw the "Low Clearance" sign when entering Soldier's Field Road out of the corner of his eye, the lack of exact clearance information may have contributed to his ignoring the sign.

There is also evidence that the rubber "CARS ONLY" sign on the entrance ramp (which being non-reflective yellow letters on black background is horribly non-standard, but that's a discussion for another time) was actually missing the night of the crash.  Even if it was in place and was black on white, "CARS ONLY" doesn't mean "You'll hit a bridge if you continue", especially to a driver who was apparently unfamilar with the Boston area.  OK, the bus would have hit the rubber sign if it was there, but could have continued on its way.

And the driver hit the Western Avenue overpass, which means his basic error was not by getting on Solider's Field Road in the first place (which you have to do to directly access I-90 from Harvard Square, and can do safely, because the first clearance restriction is at Western Avenue after the I-90 exit), but was failing to exit from Soldier's Field Road to access the MassPike.

About the only thing standard about the advance signs on Soldier's Field Road for I-90/MassPike are that they are white on green.  Other than that, they are horribly undersized, poorly placed, and actually use Helevetica font (a consequence of an agency - Department of Conservation and Recreation - that places higher value on asethetics than on giving drivers adequate information).

Lastly, as for the driver's route into Harvard from the MassPike earlier that day, note there are no clearance restrictions on Soldier's Field Road west of Western Avenue and access from the MassPike.  Therefore, it is reasonable to conjecture that the driver wouldn't expect to encounter any clearance restrictions on the reverse route back to the Pike.

Just some things to consider.

[jeffandnicole]

For one thing, the height restriction signs on Soldier's Field Road, Storrow Drive, and Memorial Drive state only "Low Clearance" and do not give the actual clearance (10.0 feet at Western Avenue, but 9'-6" at other locations). Consider that the driver no doubt passed numerous Low Clearance signs (stating 14'-6" or similar heights) on his route from Pennsylvania to Cambridge and safely passed under every one of those bridges.  Even if he saw the "Low Clearance" sign when entering Soldier's Field Road out of the corner of his eye, the lack of exact clearance information may have contributed to his ignoring the sign.

Maybe, but the 14' 6" signs aren't "low clearance", at least in this part of the country anyway.  Vehicles have a 13' 6" maximum height throughout most of the northeast; and bridges below 14' 5" are required to have the height posted on the overpass.  Of course, some bridges are signed at greater heights as well.

The different between a 14' overpass and 10' overpass is that the 14' overpasses generally don't need a special high restriction signs posted in advance of the overpass warning large vehicles of the height.  Again - some do - but for every case someone can point out, I'll just as easily point out an overpass that doesn't have the advanced signing.  The 10' overpasses definitely would need that advanced signing, and would be noted in maps and other information easily available to the driver of a truck/bus.

[PHLBOS]

I also firmly believe that a commercial driver that places "blind faith" on a consumer-grade GPS receiver probably shouldn't even have a CDL.

According to the various articles, the bus driver in question is 66 years old and has been a bus driver for over 20 years; well before the widespread use of GPS navigation systems. 

Which begs the question, if this were 15, 10, or even 5 years ago; would this accident have even happened?  If the answer is "Yes", then it is not GPS-related nor induced; OTOH, if the answer to the question is indeed "No", my earlier point stands.  As I mentioned previously, I have seen many who have been driving for decades (in some instances longer than I've been alive) turn absolutely stupid once they started using GPS systems in their vehicles.

While there have been past incidents w/vehicles hitting these overpasses (usually college kids driving moving vans); this is the first time I can remember such an incident in this area involving several injuries, some even severe.

Consider that the driver no doubt passed numerous Low Clearance signs (stating 14'-6" or similar heights) on his route from Pennsylvania to Cambridge and safely passed under every one of those bridges.  Even if he saw the "Low Clearance" sign when entering Soldier's Field Road out of the corner of his eye, the lack of exact clearance information may have contributed to his ignoring the sign.

As one who has driven between Metro Philly and Metro Boston for over 23 years, I can honestly say with reasonable certainty, that most of the roads (even ones w/vehicle restrictions due to low clearances) between here and there do NOT have such low clearances.  Plus this bus would not have been on roads like the Garden State Parkway (north of I-95/NJTP has vehicle height restrictions), the Saw Mill Parkway, Merritt Parkway, etc.  Similar logic would've/should've applied for Soldier's Field Road in Boston.

There is also evidence that the rubber "CARS ONLY" sign on the entrance ramp (which being non-reflective yellow letters on black background is horribly non-standard, but that's a discussion for another time) was actually missing the night of the crash.  Even if it was in place and was black on white, "CARS ONLY" doesn't mean "You'll hit a bridge if you continue", especially to a driver who was apparently unfamilar with the Boston area.  OK, the bus would have hit the rubber sign if it was there, but could have continued on its way.

Those rubber CARS ONLY are usually attached to an overhead gantry with a smallish red & yellow sign containing the words WARNING along with the clearance height (usually the most stringent).  Was just the rubber signs missing or the entire gantry?  The gantry where the bus likley got on eastbound Soldier's Field Road, according to various map images, show those signs attached to a cantilevered gantry w/such a warning sign (JFK/N. Harvard St. interchange).

It's interesting to note that there is a newer pedestrian overpass (John W. Weeks Bridge) located between the Harvard St. & Western Ave. interchanges.  I'm guessing that its clearance is at least 12 feet or higher, otherwise the bus would've hit that overpass first.

And the driver hit the Western Avenue overpass, which means his basic error was not by getting on Solider's Field Road in the first place (which you have to do to directly access I-90 from Harvard Square, and can do safely, because the first clearance restriction is at Western Avenue after the I-90 exit), but was failing to exit from Soldier's Field Road to access the MassPike.

A couple things:

1.  While it may not be necessarily marked as a truck route per say, one can get the Mass Pike from there without using Soldier's Field Road by staying on N. Harvard St. and following it to Cambrdige St. ant then turning left onto Cambridge St. and turn left again for the Mass Pike (I-90) on-ramps.  Again, pre-GPS, would the bus driver asked those at Harvard (especially other bus drivers on campus) what is the best way for an overheight vehicle to get to the Pike?

2.  As previously stated, if one used eastbound Soldier's Field Road, the ramp for Western Ave. and the Mass Pike/I-90 is in a straight line of sight with respect to the Western Ave. overpass w/its long yellow 10-foot clearance sign.  While the 80s-vintage MDC-era exit signage is small, had the bus driver not looked down at his GPS, he would've seen it and exited accordingly IMHO.

About the only thing standard about the advance signs on Soldier's Field Road for I-90/MassPike are that they are white on green.  Other than that, they are horribly undersized, poorly placed, and actually use Helevetica font (a consequence of an agency - Department of Conservation and Recreation - that places higher value on asethetics than on giving drivers adequate information).

I remember when those those b (lower case intentional) GS' were first erected; while not the best, they certainly were better than the 50s-era signs they replaced in terms of info.

Lastly, as for the driver's route into Harvard from the MassPike earlier that day, note there are no clearance restrictions on Soldier's Field Road west of Western Avenue and access from the MassPike.  Therefore, it is reasonable to conjecture that the driver wouldn't expect to encounter any clearance restrictions on the reverse route back to the Pike.

Given that many of the cross streets on the Cambridge side of the Charles are one-ways, the bus driver likely (guess on my part) never touched Soldier's Field Road.  He likely crossed over along Cambridge/River St. and either used Memorial Drive or River St. to get to his destination.

Just some things to consider.

Consider, yes.  But if the issues involving the crash was just due to poor/undersized/inadequate signage alone; such an accident would've happened decades earlier.  We're not talking about a new road condition scenario here.  As you yourself know, these particular roads have been there in their current form for decades.

[roadman]

PHLBOS,

Good points here.  However, the warning signs at the entrances to Soldier's Field Road, Storrow Drive, and Memorial Drive simply state "LOW CLEARANCE (in black on yellow)" with a "DANGER" banner (in white on red) above it.  The only locations the actual clearances are indicated are on the signs attached to the overpasses themselves.

Also, while this is by far the most serious crash to occur on these roads involving an overheight vehicle (at least during my lifetime),  it is not uncommon for this sort of thing to happen at least several times a year (one of the local blogs refers to this as "the Storrow pool").  Such incidents usually involve box trucks (even a U-Haul truck is too high to fit under most of the DCR bridges) or tractor-trailers.  Although less common, buses have often ventured into the forbidden zone as well.  Unfortuantely for everyone involved, this latest incident was just one of those times where the bus driver didn't realize it in time.

[PHLBOS]

Roadman,

If memory serves, when those rubber CARS ONLY signs are hit (I wasn't aware that the ones for the eastbound Soldier's Field Road eastbound entrance were missing until you mentioned it); isn't there a sign that lights up just before the next exit alerting the overheight vehicle in question to take the next exit?

Granted, if the driver looked down at his GPS (or to adjust the heater/AC controls/radio) he wouldn't have seen the sign light up (had one of those rubber signs been present).

As I mentioned earlier, yes the signage could be better (I'm sure any missing rubber CARS ONLY signs will no be quickly replaced at the entrance ramp in question) and yes there have been past incidents w/the low overpasses (usually involving college students driving moving vans, who normally aren't used to driving such tall vehicles nor are familiar w/the area); however, out-of-town busses have made the trek to/from events at Harvard University for decades without incident (either they didn't use the road or the busses in question weren't as tall or some of the overpasses were a tad higher).  So the 20-25 year-old signs alone aren't the issue and the roadway layout in the immediate vicinity hasn't really changed (sans the Mass Pike Extension) all that much since before my father was born (1930). 

Additionally, the driver in question wasn't some young newbie from a hick town; it was a 66 year-old who had driven such busses (12-ft height) for 20+ years and is based out of Philadelphia, which has its own share of roadway quirks (many of which are discussed in other threads as most of us know).  IMHO, the driver should have known better than to look down or away in an area where his needed turn can come up rather quick.

Given all the above-information, I will still stand by my claim that if there was no GPS present; the bus would've either not gotten on Soldier's Field Road or exited off before approaching the Western Ave. overpass (that ramp is the one needed to get from there to the Mass Pike). 

When one's transporting a bunch of people in a tall bus and sees a Low Clearance sign w/no height listed in an unfamiliar area; GPS or no GPS, it is always better to err on the side of caution.

IMHO, this whole incident's should be a teachable moment for all drivers out there regarding use of GPS systems while driving.

[roadman]

PHLBOS,

Again, excellent points.

While some of the entrance ramps do have warning signs (red neon text on black signs) that are supposed to be activated by overheight vehicles, they are set off by infrared sensors, and not by a vehicle hitting the rubber "CARS ONLY" signs.  Unfortunately, the sensors are often unreliable due to improper adjustment and/or lack of maintenance (for example, the K40 antenna on the trunk of my 1999 Ford Contour usually activates the signs), and in some cases, the signs are always illuminated - even when there aren't any vehicles on the ramps - and thus, often disregarded by drivers.

And, as I stated in my original post, I'm certianly not excusing the bus driver's behavior here, and I do acknowledge that he is principally responsible for the safe operation of his bus.  However, the fact that overheight vehicles - most of which are trucks driven by professional drivers - end up on these roads on a regular basis (and this has been going on since at least the 1970s) tells me that there may be more to this issue here than just driver inattention.

It is my opinion that the inadequate and non-standard signing could be one of the reasons for this.  And, frankly, there is no legitimate reason not to use standard highway signs that are properly sized and placed to warn of the clearance and vehicle restrictions.  But, given the DCR's penchant for ignoring standards in their attempts towards making these "parkways" asthetically pleasing, it's unlikely this will change until one of these crashes results in multiple fatalities (I for one hope that doesn't happen), or if ownership of these roadways is turned over to MassDOT (which would be the most logical course of action).

[PHLBOS]

Roadman,

Having driven along westbound Storrow Drive and Soldiers Field Road (up to the Cambridge Street interchange) just yesterday afternoon, I noticed that the low clearance structures range from 11 feet-3 inches to 10 feet.  One overhead sign had the likely 80s-vintage red/white/yellow DANGER LOW CLEARANCE another one, likely newer, had a slightly larger sign with the height of the next upcoming structure listed.

If I wasn't under a time contraint, I would've driven to the crash site (located beyond where I exited) and investigated the various signs.

BTW, some of the signage along westbound Storrow Drive approaching the Kenmore Square interchange has been replaced with similar-sized (or slightly larger) BGS' but featuring larger and the more MUTCD-standard FHWA font (series E or E(M)).  So there does seem to be somewhat of a transition to a closer to MUTCD standard w/future signage.

In the wake of this crash, maybe supplemental and/or larger signage will be erected during the upcoming adjacent bridge overhaul/replacement project scheduled to take place next year.  Especially since this is the first crash involving multiple injuries (as opposed to just vehicular damage).

Nonetheless, while the issue(s) with the signage problem existed for decades in this area; the over-reliance of GPS' only increases/exacerbates the problem and confirms (on a more severe level in this case) what I've stated before regarding how stupid people (many of which should know better IMHO) have become w/using these devices while driving.

IMHO, GPS should stand for Guaranteed Production Stupidity.

[Scott5114]

I can't help but feel that maybe a tiny amount of the blame should be on MassDOT/city of Boston/Department of Whatever for, y'know, still having a 10' overpass in place in the year 2013.

[PHLBOS]

I can't help but feel that maybe a tiny amount of the blame should be on MassDOT/city of Boston/Department of Whatever for, y'know, still having a 10' overpass in place in the year 2013.

Unfortuantely, when there's adjacent riverfront land/property involved (the overpass in question is a stone's throw from the Charles River); any and all roadway improvement projects (including the raising of overpasses) undergo a higher level of scrutiny from planners, NIMBYs and the like; and either die in committee or get drastically scaled back.  The roadway network in the area in question was built in the 1920s and 1930s; except for the I-90/Mass Pike Boston Extension that was built in the mid-1960s.

Does it suck from a roadway standpoint?  Yes, but that's reality in many of these older cities.  Case and point, look how long it took for the Big Dig project to become reality.  It was originally conceived during the mid 1970s, got federal approval (via a congressional override of President Reagan's veto (due to overall cost)) in 1987 and it was finally completed in the 2000s.

[Lytton]

I don't. I have an excellent memory. All I do is just type in the directions to whatever location I'm doing and I remember this in my head. Its like an external hard drive or something. I can just remember, besides, I think a GPS sucks. Fuck GPS, I rather use my brain.

[PHLBOS]

I don't. I have an excellent memory. All I do is just type in the directions to whatever location I'm doing and I remember this in my head. Its like an external hard drive or something. I can just remember, besides, I think a GPS sucks.

Agree 100%.

I rather use my brain.

Amen to that.

One after my own heart so to speak.

[PHLBOS]

A recent update regarding that Feb. bus crash in Boston:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130412_Bus_driver_who_struck_Soldiers_Field_Road_overpass_is_criminally_charged.html

Key Excepts (bold emphasis added):

Samuel J. Jackson, 67, of West Philadelphia, will be charged with criminal negligence as well as civil charges of failing to obey signs and driving a bus on an unauthorized road, according to police. In a news release, the police said Jackson "failed to heed warning signs" posted about height restrictions, and did not slow down when approaching the 10-foot overhang into which the bus smashed.
...
After the crash, Raymond Talmadge, owner of Calvary Coach, the bus company hired by the nonprofit, told NBC10 that Jackson was looking down at his GPS and missed the signs.

At present, the defense has not commented (no surprise there).  IMHO, it might be prudent for them to do a site inventory of the related signage along the driver's course.

[agentsteel53]

Jackson was looking down at his GPS and missed the signs.

if you require such a long interval of time, equivalent to a sign passing through your field of vision at ordinary travel speeds, just to read the GPS, then you should give up either your GPS or your driver's license.

[PHLBOS]

Jackson was looking down at his GPS and missed the signs.

if you require such a long interval of time, equivalent to a sign passing through your field of vision at ordinary travel speeds, just to read the GPS, then you should give up either your GPS or your driver's license.

Agreed.

[Roadgeek2500]

I've got a Nuvi 3490 LMT. Even though I'm only 12, and I always know where to go because I am the GPS, I just like to look at it like a toy.

[PHLBOS]

Not to bump an old thread, but there's been a recent update regarding the bus driver involved in last February's crash.  The driver, Samuel J. Jackson, has entered a "not guilty" plea to the neglegent driving charges.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/bucksinq/Bus-driver-pleads-not-guilty.html

Excerpts:

The driver who crashed a bus full of Bucks County students into a Boston overpass in February pleaded not guilty Tuesday to criminal charges of negligence in district court in Massachussetts, according to the Suffolk County District Attorney's Office.
...

Ray Talmadge, owner of Calvary Coach, which Jackson was driving for, told WCAU-TV in February that Jackson was looking at his GPS unit and couldn't slow the bus in time to avoid hitting the overpass.

Talmadge, in a brief telephone conversation, said he doesn't know anything about the charges against Jackson. Asked if Jackson was still employed by Calvary Coach, Jackson said, "Calvary's no more."

Interesting... one has to wonder why the bus company has since shut down? 

From a Boston area source,

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2013/06/04/bus-driver-pleads-not-guilty-boston-crash/A24DP57RXw0utL7SNzT1sO/story.html

Excerpt:

A Philadelphia tour bus driver has pleaded not guilty to negligent driving in a February crash that injured 35 teenagers and chaperones who had visited Harvard University.

Sixty-seven-year-old Samuel Jackson was arraigned Tuesday in Brighton District Court on a misdemeanor charge of negligent operation of a motor vehicle and two civil driving infractions. Jackson was released on personal recognizance and returns to court July 24. He and his attorney didn't comment to reporters outside court.

Police said Jackson said he was following GPS directions and didn't see signs warning of a low overpass on Soldiers Field Road before the bus struck it the night of Feb. 2.

Another Civil Lawsuit is being filed by a lawyer respresenting three of those injured in the crash.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/2nd-Civil-Suit-Coming-in-Boston-Tour-Bus-Crash-209644201.html

Excerpt:

Several people seriously hurt when a Philadelphia tour bus carrying high school students slammed head-on into a Boston, Mass. overpass are filing suit against the driver and coach company.

Attorney Tom Kline says he will be filing a lawsuit for three passengers injured in the February 2 crash.

The saga continues.

[kphoger]

I was just reminded last night of how dumb people have become by relying on GPS devices.  We had a cable tech working in Pittsburg, KS.  She went to one customer's house but didn't get an answer at the door; I called the guy, he was on the road, and I advised that the tech would go to her next appointment, in Arma, and then come back.  So that's what she did.  After completing that next order, I let her know her customer was now waiting for her arrival.  Time passed, and she still hadn't started the job in our tracking program.  I called her up, and she told me her GPS had given her a wrong turn and she'd driven miles out of her way.

She had just driven the exact route between the two houses, just reversed, not one hour earlier!  Please!

[Brandon]

I was dealing with a contractor who was relying on a GPS last week in Rockford to find the site for a walkthrough.  The site was on the west side of Rockford, and he was coming from Schaumburg, up I-90.  He followed his GPS off onto Business US-20 instead of staying on the US-20 Bypass to the correct exit.  I had to reroute him back onto the Bypass to get to the site.  Stupid thing is, I had just told him about an hour and a half earlier to use the US-20 Bypass to the exit near the site. 

[kphoger]

I can easily understand someone's confusing "Business 20" and "20 Bypass".

[empirestate]

Of course, for every misuse of technology, there's an equal number of failures to take advantage of the available information that technology provides. Here in New York City, whose residents are notorious for not being able to navigate their way out of a paper bag despite their ostensible savviness, I'm always amazed at the amount of shock and surprise on people's faces when the subway executes a planned service diversion. In one case, a local train was being short-turned and ran express for its last few stops. I found out about it on my smartphone and/or the MTA web site, then there were all these signs posted all over the platform, then the train conductor made a series of identical announcements loudly over the PA system, before pulling out of the last transfer station. Suddenly, as the train begins its divergent route, this one girl looks up, pulls out her earbuds and says, "Oh great, wish they would have announced this was happening!"

I'd have written her off as just one unobservant traveller, but it sparked a conversation with all the other people sitting nearby, all equally surprised and annoyed. At one point a guy says, "I don't know why they have to do this, anyway!" Naturally, I answered his question, since I knew the answer (the train has to relay from the express tracks to make the short turn), but his reaction to being told the answer wasn't one of any satisfaction (or even interest). I guess that sums it up, really: people have questions, but when given the answer they aren't receptive to it, assuming they've even articulated the question in the first place!

[D-Dey65]

I think I've mentioned this before,  but I got one as a gift years ago, and I really don't use it. I think I tried to set it up and it turned out like crap. Not that I haven't been tempted to find other uses for it, but I'm better off without it.