Control States

[roadman65]

In a way I wish control regions were more accepted for use on BGSs because, at least in the NYC area, we tend to think of things in terms of region more than of individual municipalities in terms of destinations from highways within the city. For that reason I've always liked the use of "Eastern LI" on the LIE and Belt Parkway (in addition to Riverhead on the former), and previously the use of New England instead of New Haven (or even just Connecticut for that matter). I'd prefer they used Upstate (or Hudson Valley) rather than Albany (because, really, how many drivers are actually destined for Albany?). Also logical for use in the region are New Jersey and Westchester.

I saw on GSV that some pull through signs on the L.I.E use both Riverhead and Eastern L.I as control points.  I think that maybe both should be used on signs in places like Upstate and Albany for I-87 on the Deegan.   Heck even Texas uses (or used back in 97) both Corpus Christi and Rio Grande Valley on some I-37 pull through signage south of San Antonio.

Although, as living in New Jersey I always got the left out feeling when NY or PA did not recognize our major cities as control points and got the feeling that our state is one giant city in itself by being referred to as "New Jersey" on Cross Bronx Expressway signs.  Therefore I can see the point of why the MUTCD is doing what they are in this latest campaign.

Anyway, what really interests me is why NJDOT has directional signs for New England on I-287 North near Mahwah, NJ stating:
To New England use I-87 North to I-84 East
instead of staying on I-287?

Now true, it does go there and it may bypass all of the growing Westchester region which has enough traffic of its own, but if you are destined for Stamford, Bridgeport, New Haven, New London and all other points in Southern Connecticut, Interstate 84 is not the way to go to accomplish that.  It would be better if the sign gave two choices to use either I-84 or stay on I-287 to I-95.

[jp the roadgeek]

In a way I wish control regions were more accepted for use on BGSs because, at least in the NYC area, we tend to think of things in terms of region more than of individual municipalities in terms of destinations from highways within the city. For that reason I've always liked the use of "Eastern LI" on the LIE and Belt Parkway (in addition to Riverhead on the former), and previously the use of New England instead of New Haven (or even just Connecticut for that matter). I'd prefer they used Upstate (or Hudson Valley) rather than Albany (because, really, how many drivers are actually destined for Albany?). Also logical for use in the region are New Jersey and Westchester.

I saw on GSV that some pull through signs on the L.I.E use both Riverhead and Eastern L.I as control points.  I think that maybe both should be used on signs in places like Upstate and Albany for I-87 on the Deegan.   Heck even Texas uses (or used back in 97) both Corpus Christi and Rio Grande Valley on some I-37 pull through signage south of San Antonio.

Although, as living in New Jersey I always got the left out feeling when NY or PA did not recognize our major cities as control points and got the feeling that our state is one giant city in itself by being referred to as "New Jersey" on Cross Bronx Expressway signs.  Therefore I can see the point of why the MUTCD is doing what they are in this latest campaign.

Anyway, what really interests me is why NJDOT has directional signs for New England on I-287 North near Mahwah, NJ stating:
To New England use I-87 North to I-84 East
instead of staying on I-287?

Now true, it does go there and it may bypass all of the growing Westchester region which has enough traffic of its own, but if you are destined for Stamford, Bridgeport, New Haven, New London and all other points in Southern Connecticut, Interstate 84 is not the way to go to accomplish that.  It would be better if the sign gave two choices to use either I-84 or stay on I-287 to I-95.

And what of parts of Vermont and Western MA?   Wouldn't it be easier to stay on I-87 north of I-84 to get there?

[PHLBOS]

Anyway, what really interests me is why NJDOT has directional signs for New England on I-287 North near Mahwah, NJ stating:
To New England use I-87 North to I-84 East
instead of staying on I-287?

Now true, it does go there and it may bypass all of the growing Westchester region which has enough traffic of its own, but if you are destined for Stamford, Bridgeport, New Haven, New London and all other points in Southern Connecticut, Interstate 84 is not the way to go to accomplish that.  It would be better if the sign gave two choices to use either I-84 or stay on I-287 to I-95.

As you stated, the intent of those supplemental BGS' (there's also a NYSDOT or NYST spec'd version of that BGS closer to the state-line as well BTW) is to divert as much through-traffic away from the Tappan Zee/Metropolitan NYC-area as much as possible.  Granted, for one bound for VT, southern CT, and/or Western-MA; the posted advisory/suggestion need not apply to them.  It's geared towards the majority of New England-bound travelers in mind.

After all, one is required to use their brains to know whether a particular guidance sign message applies to them or not.

[roadman]

Regarding I-95 in Maryland, I might be wrong, but I always interpreted "New York" on those signs as referring to the city, not the state. As a practical matter both interpretations are correct, of course.

True, but in the case of the Mass Pike (I-90) westbound; BGS' for Exit 9 (I-84 westbound Sturbridge) indeed are listed as New York City or NY City eliminating any doubt whereas the earlier-metioned signage along the Boston Extension list the more ambiguous New York reference.  Note: this control destination used to be applied along I-90 westbound all the way out ot Exit 10 (I-290/395/MA 12 Auburn) interchange.

There's still at least one sign on the MassPike that uses "New York" (without City) as a control destination.  It's the BGS on the WB entrance ramp from Copley Square in Boston.

Post corrected 5-6-2013 to reflect PHLBOS's observation regarding additional existing I-90 pull-thru signs with just "New York" - RM

[PHLBOS]

There's still one sign on the MassPike that uses "New York" (without City) as a control destination.  It's the BGS on the WB entrance ramp from Copley Square in Boston.

I didn't know about that one.  The ones I was referring to earlier were the pull-through BGS' at Exit 20 (Allston-Brighton-Cambridge) and Exit 15 (I-95/MA 30/128).  Those read *Mass Pike shield* 90 WEST Worcester New York.  The one at Exit 15 erroneously has a smallish capital T in the Worcester line.

[roadman]

There's still one sign on the MassPike that uses "New York" (without City) as a control destination.  It's the BGS on the WB entrance ramp from Copley Square in Boston.

I didn't know about that one.  The ones I was referring to earlier were the pull-through BGS' at Exit 20 (Allston-Brighton-Cambridge) and Exit 15 (I-95/MA 30/128).  Those read *Mass Pike shield* 90 WEST Worcester New York.  The one at Exit 15 erroneously has a smallish capital T in the Worcester line.

You are correct.  However, note that the WB pull-thru sign at Exit 20 was replaced with Fast Lane and Cash Only signs some time ago.  In addition, the entire WB structure was subsequently removed in August of 2012 (my sources tell me the removal was due to problems found during an inspection).  The WB pull-thru sign at Exit 15 is still in place, however, the signs and structure at this location are due to be replaced shortly (again, due to problems found during an inspection).

It's my understanding that the new pull thru sign to be installed at Exit 15 WB will read "90 (MassPike logo) Worcester Albany NY", and that the structure WB at Exit 20 will not be replaced until the viaduct is re-decked later this decade.

[PHLBOS]

However, note that the WB pull-thru sign at Exit 20 was replaced with Fast Lane and Cash Only signs some time ago.  In addition, the entire WB structure was subsequently removed in August of 2012 (my sources tell me the removal was due to problems found during an inspection).  The WB pull-thru sign at Exit 15 is still in place, however, the signs and structure at this location are due to be replaced shortly (again, due to problems found during an inspection).

It's my understanding that the new pull thru sign to be installed at Exit 15 WB will read "90 (MassPike logo) Worcester Albany NY", and that the structure WB at Exit 20 will not be replaced until the viaduct is re-decked later this decade.

I forgot about the one at Exit 20 being removed.

Given that most of the I-90 West BGS' signage from Boston to Exit 12 list Worcester and Springfield as its destinations; I'm surprised that the replacement pull-through BGS at Exit 15 wouldn't follow suit.   

At present, most BGS' that list Albany on the BGS for I-90 West, from Exit 11A to Exit 1, do not include NY in the Albany listing.

[roadman]

At present, most BGS' that list Albany on the BGS for I-90 West, from Exit 11A to Exit 1, do not include NY in the Albany listing.

Former MassHighway and current MassDOT convention is to include the state abbreviation for destinations outside of Massachusetts.  The former Turnpike Authority didn't follow that practice.

Also, I've been told by a reliable source that, when the I-90 signs are updated beginning in 2015, most new pull-thru signs will have two destinations.  So the westbound signs will read "Worcester Albany NY" or "Springfield Albany NY" depending on the section of the Pike you're on.  I suspect signs west of Springfield will just have "Albany NY".

[hm insulators]

I think I've seen photos before with Mexico used as a control nation...

I swear I've seen it used in San Diego when I was a kid.  On I-5? Maybe along 805?  I think nowadays it's Tijuana, but I think there used to be at least one that simply read Mexico.

I think there's control signs for Mexico at I-10's junction with Arizona 85. I know there's such signs in the Gila Bend area, where I-8 and Arizona 85 meet.

[kphoger]

I think I've seen photos before with Mexico used as a control nation...

http://goo.gl/maps/jc3QF 

[Some_Person]

http://goo.gl/maps/AAoUE

Here, west of Allentown, I-78 has New Jersey as a control state. The interesting thing is, out of the two freeways shown on the sign that pass through the Lehigh Valley, which has 800k+ people, there isn't any control city on the BGS shown. Just a state, another highway, and an airport.

http://goo.gl/maps/7TUFa

I suppose on this I-78 BGS, "Penna." was preferred over "PA" as an abbreviation.

http://goo.gl/maps/N5EjJ

Only 3 miles into NJ and the BGS already has New York as its control state.

[thenetwork]

http://goo.gl/maps/AAoUE

Here, west of Allentown, I-78 has New Jersey as a control state. The interesting thing is, out of the two freeways shown on the sign that pass through the Lehigh Valley, which has 800k+ people, there isn't any control city on the BGS shown. Just a state, another highway, and an airport.

Doesn't I-80 do that too?  ISTR at the last EB exit in PA about 10 years ago, the control city on the I-80 pullthrough was New Jersey -- like, duh?

[roadman65]

The funny thing about Exit 51's pull through sign on I-78 East near Allentown is that back in 1990 when it first opened ( that is the freeway east of there) it had "Allentown" as pull through control city and US 22 used "Whitehall."  It was after I moved down to Florida sometime in the 90's when it was amended to what it is now.

Also an interesting thing to note is that the pull through sign on I-78 at the same interchange that has the control state of New York uses "Newark" instead considering that both signs were erected when I-78 was opened to traffic in 1990 between Exit 3 in NJ and Exit 51 (former Exit 15) as part of the same contract.

Also 1 mile left in New Jersey on I-78 has a control state of Pennsylvania on a BGS that makes it appear that I-78 exits itself instead of just using the traditional mileage signs.

[SSOWorld]

I think I've seen photos before with Mexico used as a control nation...

http://goo.gl/maps/jc3QF 

Ciudad de Mexico.

This has appeared many times in other threads (not referencing since they were focused on the region so it doesn't matter whether one should search) - but northern Illinois is notorious for this.  Iowa for I-80 West, Iowa for I-88 (on several distance signs), Wisconsin for I-90 and I-94 "North"), Indiana for I-94 "South" not to mention the annoying <insert direction here> Suburbs

In Dubuque, US-20 has "Illinois" at the Locust Street intersection while US 151/61/52 has no control city or state.

[roadman65]

Also, to mention that on I-94 (and I-69) in Port Huron, MI, there is a control nation.  Canada is used as control city instead of a specific city in Canada like Sarnia or even London.

The Ambassador Bridge in Detroit uses Canada from I-75 instead of Windsor as well as it being used in Sault Ste. Marie for I-75.  In fact very rarely do you see another country's cities used as control point.  NYSDOT does manage to use "Montreal" as far south as Albany for I-87 and most likely is the furthest point away from a border entry that I know of mentioned.

I often wonder if Canada ever uses a U.S city or town as a control point on their roadsigns other than new overhead signs near Niagara Falls for the Q.E.W.  In Ontario most signs are "Bridge to U.S.A, other than Q.E.W that now uses Buffalo at the ON 420 interchange in Niagara Falls.  I did hear from my dad years ago that Quebec did recognized Plattsburg, NY on Autoroute 15 on its mileage signs, but I do not know if that is the case anymore.

[ghYHZ]

I often wonder if Canada ever uses a U.S city or town as a control point on their roadsigns other than new overhead signs near Niagara Falls for the Q.E.W...........

Houlton, Maine on the Trans Canada at Woodstock, New Brunswick

[oscar]

I often wonder if Canada ever uses a U.S city or town as a control point on their roadsigns other than new overhead signs near Niagara Falls for the Q.E.W.

Alaska is used as a control state in Grande Prairie, Alberta (on the most direct route to Alaska from Edmonton).

Both Anchorage and Fairbanks are used as control cities at the Haines Highway-Alaska Highway intersection at Haines Junction YT, to guide travelers (many traveling from southeast Alaska via the Yukon to the rest of Alaska) through that really confusing intersection.

[US71]

I-540 south in Arkansas (original segment) uses Oklahoma.

[SSOWorld]

Ugly I-95 shield text

Back in 1997, the entry point from Sault Ste Marie ON - "Bridge to U.S.A."

funny, latest GSV: http://goo.gl/maps/NR93O

Other side of the border No mention of Canada until a couple miles prior to the border on I-75 and you see in the median "Canada - Straight Thru" (again - back in 1997)

Latest GSV: http://goo.gl/maps/ARBQV

[kphoger]

Haines Junction YT ... that really confusing intersection.

[jwolfer]

http://goo.gl/maps/AAoUE

Here, west of Allentown, I-78 has New Jersey as a control state. The interesting thing is, out of the two freeways shown on the sign that pass through the Lehigh Valley, which has 800k+ people, there isn't any control city on the BGS shown. Just a state, another highway, and an airport.

http://goo.gl/maps/7TUFa

I suppose on this I-78 BGS, "Penna." was preferred over "PA" as an abbreviation.

http://goo.gl/maps/N5EjJ

Only 3 miles into NJ and the BGS already has New York as its control state.

"New York" on a BGS implies the City not the State( or in other settings)... when people want to refer to the whole state it usually is " New York State"  My friend is from upstate New York and the tells people he is from " New York State"

[Kacie Jane]

I often wonder if Canada ever uses a U.S city or town as a control point on their roadsigns other than new overhead signs near Niagara Falls for the Q.E.W...........

Houlton, Maine on the Trans Canada at Woodstock, New Brunswick

B.C. signs are inconsistent, there are some that just say "U.S.A." or the like, but definitely plenty that mention Seattle too.

[roadman65]

I often remember that on some pull through signs along I-275 (the Cincinnati Beltway) had "Kentucky" used as control cities. 

The three toll roads that run continuous (the Indiana E-W Toll Road, Ohio Turnpike, Penna Turnpike or at least two of the three)in to each other often use state names on some ramp and pull through signs.

The NJ Turnpike Exit 6A ramp from US 130 uses the state name "Pennsylvania" instead of its turnpike name as reference.  Then we cannot forget the sign at NJ 495's western terminus for the NJ Turnpike SB with "Del-Md-Pa" that has been around for many decades.

[Zeffy]

I suppose on this I-78 BGS, "Penna." was preferred over "PA" as an abbreviation.

http://goo.gl/maps/N5EjJ

To add to NJ's use of Penna on signs, here's another case of Penna, this time on a US 202 South pullthrough.

http://goo.gl/maps/94g0k

[FreewayDan]

In Arizona, California State Route 62 appears on a sign gantry in Arizona, and it used to display the control state as California:
http://www.arizonaroads.com/pics/az95ca62az.jpg

Today, California is now 29 Palms:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=parker,+az&hl=en&ll=34.149611,-114.288636&spn=0.005869,0.013078&sll=34.075412,-113.896637&sspn=0.751878,1.674042&hnear=Parker,+La+Paz,+Arizona&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=34.149518,-114.288578&panoid=jdCHs7DAnJHJPR0gllTpJA&cbp=12,355.86,,0,3.21