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Being an Uber driver

Started by golden eagle, August 16, 2015, 10:27:05 PM

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golden eagle

I've been seeing ads online lately advertising being a driver for Uber. They promise from $16-19/hour, if not more. While it sounds good, I know there's more to it. In fact, this PBS article tells of the ups and downs of Uber and Lyft drivers.

Are any of you or anyone you doing this, or thinking of doing this? I wouldn't mind, but crime issues makes me think long and hard about doing it.


jeffandnicole

Do they promise your going to make $16-$19/hour or more, or do they say you can make $16-$19 or more?

And there's a lot to consider. Like your car insurance. You have a personal policy on your vehicle. If you use it to transport people in exchange for a fee, you are using it for commercial purposes.

I don't know if crime has been a major issue with uber drivers (a potential care has to register so unless they are using a stolen credit card they have their info).

jwolfer

A uber driver in Charleston, SC raped a passenger recently.

Having an accident with passengers in the car could be a shitstorm of liability. I would imagine the auto insurance rates would be astronomical given  the litigiousness of many people. 

The passengers would see it as hitting lotto.. I know from experience working as a chiropractor with attorneys and patients.
Furthermore if an insurer gets info you are an uber driver, they probably wouldn't cover you if all you have is a personal policy. Unless uber has some sort of policy.. Which I doubt.  Remember all insurance companies will do anything to not pay a claim.
The $19/hour wouldn't be worth it

jwolfer

I do know a girl who is an uber driver in Orlando.. Big money on weekend nights or Magic games

nexus73

Go here to learn the ups and downs of Uber from those in the front lines:

http://uberpeople.net/

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

1995hoo

I do not believe it makes sense to drive for one of these outfits in view of the potential risks.

Given Uber's constant claims to the press that they are not a provider of transportation services but rather a company facilitating potential passengers connecting with potential drivers, I highly doubt they provide primary* coverage. I believe some states require that companies like Uber provide excess coverage, but that leaves a potential gap when the driver's own carrier denies coverage, which they are highly likely to do because I would not be surprised at all to learn that the vast majority of such drivers have not disclosed their commercial use of their vehicles to their carriers. I'm sure there are a good number who think, "Oh, this is a good way to make some extra money" and never bother to think about all the legal ramifications that go with it.

Even if the Uber driver's carrier doesn't deny coverage, there may be a potential coverage gap depending on what underlying limits the Uber excess policy provides. That is, suppose–this is hypothetical because I don't know the actual details–they have an umbrella policy that provides $1 million of coverage once $500,000 of underlying insurance is exhausted. If the Uber driver only carries the minimum coverage provided by law, you potentially have a big gap there. (Here in Virginia, the minimum requirement is bodily injury $25,000 per person/$50,000 per accident, property damage $20,000 per accident. Those are extremely low and inadequate limits in today's world.) The driver's own coverage is not enough to reach the Uber-provided excess coverage unless the Uber policy contains a "drop down" clause, which it may or may not. If it doesn't, the driver is personally on the hook for the $450,000 coverage gap. (A drop down clause may also require the excess carrier to provide primary coverage if the primary carrier denies coverage, but again, that depends on the specific policy language.)

Of course, the Uber driver also runs the risk of his carrier then cancelling his policy because he misrepresented his use of his vehicle (or, alternatively, failed to update them about the use, if you started driving for Uber after the policy was already in effect). So not only does he not have coverage for the accident that already occurred, he now lacks any sort of insurance coverage going forward, even for his own personal driving. Don't forget, too, that when he applies for coverage from another carrier, they may ask if he was ever dropped by another insurer, and if he lies about that and they discover the lie, they'll almost certainly rescind his policy as well.

Some states may also require you to obtain an endorsement on your driver's license, or perhaps obtain a CDL, if you're carrying passengers for hire.

BTW, these sorts of insurance and regulatory concerns aren't necessarily limited to people driving for Uber-like outfits. People who rent out space in their houses or apartments via sites like Airbnb may face issues as well. If the person renting space gets injured in your house, say because the carpet on the stairs is loose and they trip and fall down the stairs, and you then tender that to your homeowner's insurer, they may deny coverage.

A lot of the younger people seem to think "it doesn't matter." It does matter because, as we all know, you can be doing everything right and still wind up in a car accident because someone else does the wrong thing. You don't want to be stuck on your own if you're the Uber driver and your passenger sues you when someone else runs into your car, and it doesn't matter if the other driver is ultimately the liable party. Bear in mind the liability coverage is only one part of insurance. The other part is the legal defense costs. The insurance carrier has the contractual right and obligation to control the defense of any potentially-covered claims, which means you have to tell them about the potential claim and usually they will then hire the defense attorney and pay his bills if the claim is one that, if proven, could fall within the policy's coverage. That's hugely important, especially the "potentially-covered" part. It means that even if the person suing you loses, you don't have to repay the amounts the insurer paid the attorney. But if the claim could not fall within the policy's coverage, say because an exclusion would apply, the carrier doesn't have to provide you with a defense. If your policy does not provide coverage for your transporting people for hire, and you get sued because of a wreck that occurred when you were driving for Uber, not only could your carrier deny liability coverage, they could also refuse to provide you any defense against the claim and you'd be stuck trying to find and pay for your own attorney.

I know here in Virginia people who drive for those companies face another issue–car tax. The Commonwealth provides a certain amount of "car tax relief" for personal-use vehicles up to the first $20,000 of assessed value. But if you use your vehicle to drive for Uber, you're using it for commercial purposes, and if more than a certain percentage of your mileage during the year is for Uber, you are liable for the full 100% of the car tax. If you fraudulently, or ignorantly, certify your car as being for "personal use" and the tax authorities determine it's for "business use," you face further penalties in addition to having to reimburse the Commonwealth for the subsidy.


*"Primary" versus "excess" coverage means what it sounds like. The following is a big oversimplification, but it gives you the gist. Primary coverage refers to the policy you go to first when you have a potential claim. Excess coverage kicks in when the primary coverage runs out. Excess policies' limits of liability differ from primary policies because they usually say "excess of $x." For example, "$1 million excess of $500,000." Big corporations usually have many "layers" of excess liability coverage (example, "$15 million excess of $20 million"). The excess policy doesn't kick in until the underlying insurance is paid out, or "exhausted" in industry parlance.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

SteveG1988

I've used uber, it is decent.

Looked into their vehicle requirements, one car is singled out as "never to be used" the ford crown victoria.

My guess, they want to not be confused for real taxis.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

realjd

I use Uber regularly as a customer. They're great. They bill my corporate card automatically, email me a receipt, and there's no need to tip. It gets rid of the whole "my credit card reader is broken" nonsense that I encounter far to often with regular cabs - including the guy who pretended to run my corp card through his square reader with his phone in airplane mode and tried to demand cash. Uber avoids that. Plus the drivers tend to speak English and often have chargers and free bottled water in their cars.

From a driver perspective, most of the drivers seem happy, although the uberx rates have dropped significantly lately and I'm starting to hear some anger about that. And uber has also been hiring up robotics engineers with the stated end game of having self driving taxis.

empirestate

I must say I've never tried Uber, because living in NYC they don't offer anything I need that I can't get from the regular taxi system. But I do realize that in many other cities this wouldn't be remotely true, and I also recognize that many of the amenities now offered by NYC taxis may have been spurred on in part by the insurgence of Uber and other rideshares.

Now as for being a driver for them, the thing that gives me the biggest red flag is the recent controversy over whether their drivers are employees or independent contractors. This happens to also be the biggest obstacle I face in my own profession, and while I have no theoretical problem with operating as a contractor in appropriate situations, it's also a very common tactic used by companies that don't want to be bothered with the responsibilities of proper employers (such as paying some of the taxes, and providing various benefits, in exchange for the control they're permitted to exert over the employee's work).

The fact that Uber's business model seems to hinge upon not being subject to various rules and regulations that hinder their competitors would make me very suspicious of how they would try to exert control over the way I operated my business as a driver for them–they would in fact be my client–without them picking up their share of the costs associated with that control.

hbelkins

I've never had the need for Uber or Lyft -- or a taxi, for that matter -- and there's no demand for Uber drivers in my rural smalltown area, so I can't comment on that.

But what I love about the concept of Uber is that it spits in the face of a government-sanctioned and propped-up monopoly. I'm a huge fan of free enterprise, and the traditional taxi companies are anything but participants in a competitive, free-enterprise service.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

empirestate


Quote from: hbelkins on August 18, 2015, 01:47:25 PM
But what I love about the concept of Uber is that it spits in the face of a government-sanctioned and propped-up monopoly. I'm a huge fan of free enterprise, and the traditional taxi companies are anything but participants in a competitive, free-enterprise service.

That actually goes along well with my point. By the same token, I would be concerned that they're not playing free and fair with respect to the companies* that do their work for them, i.e., their drivers.

*Or in this case, individuals/sole proprietors of independent businesses.


iPhone

hbelkins

There have always been disagreements on who are employees vs. who are independent contractors. Newspaper carriers come to mind immediately. Basically, if you get a 1099, you're an independent contractor. If you get a W-2, you're an employee. If you get neither, you are (were) Randy Hersh.  :bigass:


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

empirestate


Quote from: hbelkins on August 18, 2015, 03:32:20 PM
Basically, if you get a 1099, you're an independent contractor. If you get a W-2, you're an employee. If you get neither, you are (were) Randy Hersh.  :bigass:

Well, no, not always; that's the whole problem. Companies often issue 1099s to people who should be employees. The law says that if it looks like a duck, it's a duck, even if you call it a goose and send it a letter to that effect.

It's more correct to say that if you're a contractor, you get a 1099, and if you're an employee, a W2. Reversing the order of the statement, however, isn't equally true.

But the point is, yes, there is often "disagreement" (in quotes because the companies that misclassify usually know perfectly well what they're doing). From what I have read about Uber, it would be a situation with a high probability of having such a disagreement, and so I'd be wary of entering into it for that reason.


iPhone

vtk

I've been considering quitting my job and starting with Uber full time. But I can't find any hard numbers for how much it pays in my city. It seems like, in the best case, it would be a lateral or modestly upward move in net income (after taking into account all the extra expenses of operating with my own vehicle, including legit insurance and permits) and an improvement in quality of life (what with setting my own schedule). Worst case, I go broke.

I wouldn't expect Uber to be a way for anyone to make a living for too much longer anyway, considering their goals of becoming profitable, becoming cheaper than owning one's own car, and switching to an autonomous fleet.

Do they still call it a "ride sharing" service? Unless the driver would have driven there anyway, it's not ride sharing.
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

realjd

Quote from: vtk on August 18, 2015, 11:38:06 PM
I've been considering quitting my job and starting with Uber full time. But I can't find any hard numbers for how much it pays in my city. It seems like, in the best case, it would be a lateral or modestly upward move in net income (after taking into account all the extra expenses of operating with my own vehicle, including legit insurance and permits) and an improvement in quality of life (what with setting my own schedule). Worst case, I go broke.

I wouldn't expect Uber to be a way for anyone to make a living for too much longer anyway, considering their goals of becoming profitable, becoming cheaper than owning one's own car, and switching to an autonomous fleet.

Do they still call it a "ride sharing" service? Unless the driver would have driven there anyway, it's not ride sharing.

Go look at the passenger rates for your area. That's what you'll get, minus Uber's standard cut. The bigger issue is their requirements for cars. They won't let just any car in.

UberX is considered ride sharing. The original Uber service - UberBlack they're calling it now - is a black car service.

1995hoo

Don't forget that if they consider you an independent contractor, it means you have to pay all the taxes yourself (federal and state income tax, Social Security, Medicare) via quarterly estimated taxes since they won't withhold anything.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

I94RoadRunner

I guess that I should put my two cents in regarding Uber. I recently have been driving for Uber in the Twin Cities of Minnesota. So far, not bad. I worked my first night for 7 hours and made $176 in fares. This was on a Saturday night with heavy thunderstorms, therefore that may have caused a spike in ridership.

I have been typically doing a few trips after I finish my day job - so far on slower nights of Monday and Tuesday and I had $57 in 3 hours and $26 in almost 2 hours. Mind you that this in off peak hours and I was not working a downtown area like Minneapolis or St Paul. I instead wanted to see what kind of demand there was for the area between Roseville where I work and Mounds View where I live.

Another factor to consider is that there is a big difference between the UberX fares and the Uber Black fares. The difference is in the type of car that you are offered. Of course an Uber Black car is a luxury car which explains the higher rates. My experience has been with UberX being that I am driving a white Chevy HHR - not a luxury car by any means. The guy that got me into the idea of driving for Uber is a teammate on my 35+ baseball team I manage locally who in driving for Uber Black, also gets him better fares. In one day, he was able to get $900 in only 20 hours!

So if you are asking if there is money that can be made driving for Uber, so far my answer is yes. Is this something that will make you a good living .....? Well, the verdict is still out on that question. I will update everyone as I try things out more and see what all happens. For me it is something to do instead of going to the bar and drinking, why not go make a few extra dollars and more importantly give the people an inexpensive option to taking the road when they have had a few. I can say that it makes me feel good to save some poor bastard from a life changing DWI .....
Chris Kalina

“The easiest solution to fixing the I-238 problem is to redefine I-580 as I-38

cpzilliacus

Quote from: I94RoadRunner on August 25, 2015, 10:19:05 PM
So if you are asking if there is money that can be made driving for Uber, so far my answer is yes. Is this something that will make you a good living .....? Well, the verdict is still out on that question. I will update everyone as I try things out more and see what all happens. For me it is something to do instead of going to the bar and drinking, why not go make a few extra dollars and more importantly give the people an inexpensive option to taking the road when they have had a few. I can say that it makes me feel good to save some poor bastard from a life changing DWI .....

You do not need to answer this (obviously), but have you told your auto insurance company that you are driving for Uber?
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

route17fan

I am just starting with it - although because I am just starting, I have no real info to go off of - so as I get going, I will update this thread.  :D
John Krakoff - Cleveland, Ohio

Laura

I looked into being an Uber driver to make some extra cash, but my car is too old. Their car requirement is that it is less than ten years old.


iPhone

route17fan

After the first week - progress is slow, but happening nontheless. It's a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Customers can cancel a trip (I had about 5 of them cancel while I was enroute to them) and a bunch of short hops (on a late shift 10pm-3am). Although there were a few long-hauls (from downtown Columbus Ohio to suburban Upper Arlington) which helped to offset the short runs. I am also trying to mix up the times when I am out.

Also interpreting the Uber map which will let drivers know what parts of the city are spiking with activity can be a bit challenging. I am in Columbus, Ohio and, for example, if I am in downtown Columbus and the app is showing the north end of Columbus in a 'red' color (indicating increased activity) - if I start to head that way and seem to be within 5 or less miles of the activity area, it can drop to nothing in no time flat.

Kind of frustrating but I am keeping with it because I really like driving and doing this.
John Krakoff - Cleveland, Ohio

jeffandnicole

Quote from: route17fan on September 09, 2015, 09:46:27 AM
Also interpreting the Uber map which will let drivers know what parts of the city are spiking with activity can be a bit challenging. I am in Columbus, Ohio and, for example, if I am in downtown Columbus and the app is showing the north end of Columbus in a 'red' color (indicating increased activity) - if I start to head that way and seem to be within 5 or less miles of the activity area, it can drop to nothing in no time flat.

It would seem, based on this, that there's a show, event, or other activity that has ended and people are looking for rides. Or if later in the evening, bars and restaurants are closing and parties are ending.  Maybe try to figure out what's going on when you see the red spikes, so in the future you can keep an eye on those activities, anticipate those spikes and be in the area before they occur.

Taxi drivers work on the same concept. If they know a show is ending at 10pm, you're going to see a long line of them on the street out front at 9:30pm.

route17fan

Very true - and it's all just a learning process to be in the right place at the right time :)
John Krakoff - Cleveland, Ohio

vtk

Quote from: route17fan on September 09, 2015, 09:46:27 AM
for example, if I am in downtown Columbus and the app is showing the north end of Columbus in a 'red' color (indicating increased activity) - if I start to head that way and seem to be within 5 or less miles of the activity area, it can drop to nothing in no time flat.

Maybe there were a bunch of other Uber drivers who got there first.
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

route17fan

Quote from: vtk on September 09, 2015, 01:42:23 PM
Quote from: route17fan on September 09, 2015, 09:46:27 AM
for example, if I am in downtown Columbus and the app is showing the north end of Columbus in a 'red' color (indicating increased activity) - if I start to head that way and seem to be within 5 or less miles of the activity area, it can drop to nothing in no time flat.

Maybe there were a bunch of other Uber drivers who got there first.

Very valid - absolutely true
John Krakoff - Cleveland, Ohio



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