US-41 Interstate Conversion

[SEWIGuy]

ISTHA used to sign the Tri-State there as North-South (but East-West on the I-94 reassurance signs).

This concept of I-41 and US-41 got me thinking about the early proposals for the interstate system.  Why did we need to choose an entirely new system anyway, in an opposite direction from the US-system?  Might it not be better if the two systems were concurrent, and freeway stretches of US-routes were signed with the red-white-blue shield, i.e. US-41 and I-41?

Because the overlays weren't always as "neat" as I-94 and US-41.

For instance, what do you do with I-90 between Chicago and the Mississippi River?  It is a freeway that is labelled US-20 from Chicago to Rockford...US-51 from Rockford to Portage....US-12 from Portage to Tomah...and then US-16 west to LaCrosse.  A single number serves that route so much better.

Furthermore you have a bunch of unnecessary renumbering of old US routes.  Such as US-20 in Illinois, etc. 

A new numbering system was simply much easier.

[triplemultiplex]

Regarding 894, I was told at a PIM back in spring that WisDOT is not looking to get rid of it when the new interstate comes along for some reason.  So we just may have another pointless multiplex in Wisconsin.  Derp.

They do, however, plan on renumbering the exits on 894 when I-whatever gets signed.  That's good, but it makes leaving 894 around even more pointless.

Even if I-41 ends at the Mitchell (like it should) despite the route 'officially' extending to Illinois, they can always just keep the exit numbers/mileage.  They'll just start at about exit 28, looks like.  Besides, I doubt exits would be renumbered between the Mitchell Interchange and Illinois regardless of what happens with the number.

[Alps]

Regarding 894, I was told at a PIM back in spring that WisDOT is not looking to get rid of it when the new interstate comes along for some reason.  So we just may have another pointless multiplex in Wisconsin.  Derp.

They do, however, plan on renumbering the exits on 894 when I-whatever gets signed.  That's good, but it makes leaving 894 around even more pointless.

Even if I-41 ends at the Mitchell (like it should) despite the route 'officially' extending to Illinois, they can always just keep the exit numbers/mileage.  They'll just start at about exit 28, looks like.  Besides, I doubt exits would be renumbered between the Mitchell Interchange and Illinois regardless of what happens with the number.

I-894 continues to sign an alternative way around the city to I-94, so it may have some use in that regard.

[mgk920]

Regarding 894, I was told at a PIM back in spring that WisDOT is not looking to get rid of it when the new interstate comes along for some reason.  So we just may have another pointless multiplex in Wisconsin.  Derp.

They do, however, plan on renumbering the exits on 894 when I-whatever gets signed.  That's good, but it makes leaving 894 around even more pointless.

Even if I-41 ends at the Mitchell (like it should) despite the route 'officially' extending to Illinois, they can always just keep the exit numbers/mileage.  They'll just start at about exit 28, looks like.  Besides, I doubt exits would be renumbered between the Mitchell Interchange and Illinois regardless of what happens with the number.

I-894 continues to sign an alternative way around the city to I-94, so it may have some use in that regard.

Nearly all OTR big-rig truck drivers use I-90 between Madison, WI and Chicagoland, so I-894 isn't even useful to them as a navigation number, except as a way to bypass central Milwaukee on their ways to and from the Fox Valley (US 41(I-xx) corridor - Fond du Lac/Oshkosh/Appleton) and for local/regional pick-ups and deliveries.  For car drivers, I-894 is just another part of the current numbering confusion that they encounter when driving the logical routing that will all become I-xx when going to and from the Fox Valley on the US 41(I-xx) corridor.

I agree, 'I-894' will be completely pointless.



Mike

[Alex]

I agree, 'I-894' will be completely pointless.



Mike

From a roadguy's perspective, its not pointless at all. Without it, I-94 does not have an even numbered child for every possible number and there are so few I-8xx's as it is. I would hate to see it go based upon that...

[SSOWorld]

I'm going to have to disagree on that on Alex - I look at reality and see Wisconsin and its need to have pointless concurrencies.

[english si]

I'm going to have to disagree on that on Alex - I look at reality and see Wisconsin and its need to have pointless concurrencies.

the removal of one is one of the reasons why they want I-41 - so they don't have to sign US 41 south of Green Bay.

894 would have to stay for options that aren't I-41/I-47, otherwise the bypass of downtown doesn't have one number.

[Jordanah1]

US41/WI21 interchange will be opening soon i would assume based on the ribbon cutting ceremony being scheduled for november 5th. i assume the interchange should open not long after. http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/flex/NewsWinnebago4121ribboncutting.978

[Alex]

I'm going to have to disagree on that on Alex - I look at reality and see Wisconsin and its need to have pointless concurrencies.

Well I didn't like it when I-265 was snarfed by a relocation of I-65 in Nashville or when I-181 was killed off when I-26 was extended either. At least there are other I-265's, but there is no other I-181. IMO, losing I-894 will suck from a purely roadgeek standpoint, as will losing I-164 if I-69 results in its removal.

[NYYPhil777]

I'm going to have to disagree on that on Alex - I look at reality and see Wisconsin and its need to have pointless concurrencies.

Well I didn't like it when I-265 was snarfed by a relocation of I-65 in Nashville or when I-181 was killed off when I-26 was extended either. At least there are other I-265's, but there is no other I-181. IMO, losing I-894 will suck from a purely roadgeek standpoint, as will losing I-164 if I-69 results in its removal.

I-130 and I-540 in Arkansas will also be lost when I-49 is completed.
To keep on the topic, I too would keep I-894 and not replace it with a I-41 or I-47.

[Fox 11 News]

DOT release today about Oshkosh 41/21 opening Monday:

US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Oshkosh opening  Monday!

Interchange had been closed since March 19


(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region office is announcing the US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Winnebago County will be open by 5 p.m. Monday, October 29, approximately three weeks ahead of schedule.  The interchange had been closed since Monday, March 19.

WisDOT NE Region Director Will Dorsey said, "I am extremely proud of our contractors, WisDOT Staff and consultant staff for opening this interchange well ahead of schedule.  We promised the community we would deliver this project in one construction season and that is just what we did."

Dorsey added, "The department would like to also thank the Oshkosh area residents, businesses and motorists for their patience during this aggressive construction schedule."

The roundabout on the west side of the interchange, including the ramps to and from US 41 southbound were already opened on Thursday, August 30 by 4 p.m.

The $54 million project includes rebuilding the WIS 21 interchange so that WIS 21 passes over US 41; construction of four roundabouts on WIS 21, at the US 41 ramp terminals and Washburn and Koeller streets intersections; and the reconstruction and expansion of US 41 between Witzel Avenue and US 45. 

Throughout the project, WisDOT maintain two lanes of traffic in both directions on US 41.

The work on US 41 and the Lake Butte des Morts causeway will be completed by the end of July 2013.   

[agentsteel53]

Well I didn't like it when I-265 was snarfed by a relocation of I-65 in Nashville or when I-181 was killed off when I-26 was extended either. At least there are other I-265's, but there is no other I-181. IMO, losing I-894 will suck from a purely roadgeek standpoint, as will losing I-164 if I-69 results in its removal.

were there any state-named 265 or 181 shields left?  if not, then those roads are just about lost anyway.  same with I-164, for which I don't know any state-named shields.

are those state-named 894s in that one construction zone still around?

[SEWIGuy]

I don't have a problem with some of Wisconsin's "pointless concurrencies."  Especially if they aid the driver in navigation.

[mgk920]

DOT release today about Oshkosh 41/21 opening Monday:

US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Oshkosh opening  Monday!

Interchange had been closed since March 19


(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region office is announcing the US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Winnebago County will be open by 5 p.m. Monday, October 29, approximately three weeks ahead of schedule.  The interchange had been closed since Monday, March 19.

WisDOT NE Region Director Will Dorsey said, "I am extremely proud of our contractors, WisDOT Staff and consultant staff for opening this interchange well ahead of schedule.  We promised the community we would deliver this project in one construction season and that is just what we did."

Dorsey added, "The department would like to also thank the Oshkosh area residents, businesses and motorists for their patience during this aggressive construction schedule."

The roundabout on the west side of the interchange, including the ramps to and from US 41 southbound were already opened on Thursday, August 30 by 4 p.m.

The $54 million project includes rebuilding the WIS 21 interchange so that WIS 21 passes over US 41; construction of four roundabouts on WIS 21, at the US 41 ramp terminals and Washburn and Koeller streets intersections; and the reconstruction and expansion of US 41 between Witzel Avenue and US 45. 

Throughout the project, WisDOT maintain two lanes of traffic in both directions on US 41.

The work on US 41 and the Lake Butte des Morts causeway will be completed by the end of July 2013.

Something for me to check out early next week!



Also, Thanx for the updated completion date for the causeway, I was starting to wonder about that part and I was assuming mid to late fall, 2013.  All of the rest of Oshkosh-Neenah part of US 41(I-xx) should also be done within the next couple of months.

BTW, "end of July 2013" is right about EAA week.

On the Green Bay section, check out how massively wide US 41(I-xx) is becoming between Mason St (WI 54/WI 32 east) and the directional 'T' at Shawano Ave (WI 29/WI 32 west) in Green Bay!  It can be viewed on the WisDOT camera site at http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx then scroll down to 'US 41 @ MASON ST'.  If the camera is pointing northward, the under-construction WI 29 directional 'T' interchange is in the background just past that rightward curve.

The Oshkosh-Neenah part can be seen if you go to the county drop-down list and choose 'Winnebago'.

Mike

[hbelkins]

were there any state-named 265 or 181 shields left?  if not, then those roads are just about lost anyway.  same with I-164, for which I don't know any state-named shields.

I traveled I-181 often and never saw any state-named shields.

Seems like I may have seen at least one for I-164.

[Jordanah1]

DOT release today about Oshkosh 41/21 opening Monday:

US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Oshkosh opening  Monday!

Interchange had been closed since March 19


(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region office is announcing the US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Winnebago County will be open by 5 p.m. Monday, October 29, approximately three weeks ahead of schedule.  The interchange had been closed since Monday, March 19.

WisDOT NE Region Director Will Dorsey said, "I am extremely proud of our contractors, WisDOT Staff and consultant staff for opening this interchange well ahead of schedule.  We promised the community we would deliver this project in one construction season and that is just what we did."

Dorsey added, "The department would like to also thank the Oshkosh area residents, businesses and motorists for their patience during this aggressive construction schedule."

The roundabout on the west side of the interchange, including the ramps to and from US 41 southbound were already opened on Thursday, August 30 by 4 p.m.

The $54 million project includes rebuilding the WIS 21 interchange so that WIS 21 passes over US 41; construction of four roundabouts on WIS 21, at the US 41 ramp terminals and Washburn and Koeller streets intersections; and the reconstruction and expansion of US 41 between Witzel Avenue and US 45. 

Throughout the project, WisDOT maintain two lanes of traffic in both directions on US 41.

The work on US 41 and the Lake Butte des Morts causeway will be completed by the end of July 2013.

Something for me to check out early next week!



Also, Thanx for the updated completion date for the causeway, I was starting to wonder about that part and I was assuming mid to late fall, 2013.  All of the rest of Oshkosh-Neenah part of US 41(I-xx) should also be done within the next couple of months.

BTW, "end of July 2013" is right about EAA week.

On the Green Bay section, check out how massively wide US 41(I-xx) is becoming between Mason St (WI 54/WI 32 east) and the directional 'T' at Shawano Ave (WI 29/WI 32 west) in Green Bay!  It can be viewed on the WisDOT camera site at http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx then scroll down to 'US 41 @ MASON ST'.  If the camera is pointing northward, the under-construction WI 29 directional 'T' interchange is in the background just past that rightward curve.

The Oshkosh-Neenah part can be seen if you go to the county drop-down list and choose 'Winnebago'.

Mike

also the northbound lanes will be opening in early november, as work is nearly completed for the section between oshkosh and neenah.
http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/index.php?option=com_content&template=preview&share=true&id=185

[mgk920]

DOT release today about Oshkosh 41/21 opening Monday:

US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Oshkosh opening  Monday!

Interchange had been closed since March 19


(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region office is announcing the US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Winnebago County will be open by 5 p.m. Monday, October 29, approximately three weeks ahead of schedule.  The interchange had been closed since Monday, March 19.

WisDOT NE Region Director Will Dorsey said, "I am extremely proud of our contractors, WisDOT Staff and consultant staff for opening this interchange well ahead of schedule.  We promised the community we would deliver this project in one construction season and that is just what we did."

Dorsey added, "The department would like to also thank the Oshkosh area residents, businesses and motorists for their patience during this aggressive construction schedule."

The roundabout on the west side of the interchange, including the ramps to and from US 41 southbound were already opened on Thursday, August 30 by 4 p.m.

The $54 million project includes rebuilding the WIS 21 interchange so that WIS 21 passes over US 41; construction of four roundabouts on WIS 21, at the US 41 ramp terminals and Washburn and Koeller streets intersections; and the reconstruction and expansion of US 41 between Witzel Avenue and US 45. 

Throughout the project, WisDOT maintain two lanes of traffic in both directions on US 41.

The work on US 41 and the Lake Butte des Morts causeway will be completed by the end of July 2013.

Something for me to check out early next week!



Also, Thanx for the updated completion date for the causeway, I was starting to wonder about that part and I was assuming mid to late fall, 2013.  All of the rest of Oshkosh-Neenah part of US 41(I-xx) should also be done within the next couple of months.

BTW, "end of July 2013" is right about EAA week.

On the Green Bay section, check out how massively wide US 41(I-xx) is becoming between Mason St (WI 54/WI 32 east) and the directional 'T' at Shawano Ave (WI 29/WI 32 west) in Green Bay!  It can be viewed on the WisDOT camera site at http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx then scroll down to 'US 41 @ MASON ST'.  If the camera is pointing northward, the under-construction WI 29 directional 'T' interchange is in the background just past that rightward curve.

The Oshkosh-Neenah part can be seen if you go to the county drop-down list and choose 'Winnebago'.

Mike

also the northbound lanes will be opening in early november, as work is nearly completed for the section between oshkosh and neenah.
http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/index.php?option=com_content&template=preview&share=true&id=185

I noticed the orange striped barrels that are already sitting out lined up and the striping that has already been done on the northbound side earlier today.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the northbound side north of US 45 open and traffic 'flipped' by next weekend.  The barrels are visible on the WisDOT traffic cams along that stretch.



Mike

[Fox 11 News]

Story about 41/21 interchange re-opening Monday:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-21-interchange-opens-ahead-of-schedule

[mgk920]

WisDOT has opened the new northbound side of the upgraded highway between the north end of the Lake Butte des Morts causeway in Oshkosh and Neenah for two lanes, 'flipping' traffic to it sometime on Friday, 2012-11-02.



I'll be checking it out later today.

:jumping:

Mike

[hobsini2]

Well I didn't like it when I-265 was snarfed by a relocation of I-65 in Nashville or when I-181 was killed off when I-26 was extended either. At least there are other I-265's, but there is no other I-181. IMO, losing I-894 will suck from a purely roadgeek standpoint, as will losing I-164 if I-69 results in its removal.

were there any state-named 265 or 181 shields left?  if not, then those roads are just about lost anyway.  same with I-164, for which I don't know any state-named shields.

are those state-named 894s in that one construction zone still around?

While I would like to keep the 894 bypass number around, it would not be for historical purposes. I know this may seem pie in the sky but it has been done before where a proposed freeway that once was dead was revived years later. What I am talking about specifically with 894 extending it up to about Brown Deer Rd and then cut east/northeast to I-43 south of Port Washington to make a real bypass of Downtown Milwaukee for the north suburbs. If they built such a freeway, 894 could be a logical number as well as an even I-x43.  At least the exit numbers on 894 will reflect I-41 soon.

[Jordanah1]

Well I didn't like it when I-265 was snarfed by a relocation of I-65 in Nashville or when I-181 was killed off when I-26 was extended either. At least there are other I-265's, but there is no other I-181. IMO, losing I-894 will suck from a purely roadgeek standpoint, as will losing I-164 if I-69 results in its removal.

were there any state-named 265 or 181 shields left?  if not, then those roads are just about lost anyway.  same with I-164, for which I don't know any state-named shields.

are those state-named 894s in that one construction zone still around?

While I would like to keep the 894 bypass number around, it would not be for historical purposes. I know this may seem pie in the sky but it has been done before where a proposed freeway that once was dead was revived years later. What I am talking about specifically with 894 extending it up to about Brown Deer Rd and then cut east/northeast to I-43 south of Port Washington to make a real bypass of Downtown Milwaukee for the north suburbs. If they built such a freeway, 894 could be a logical number as well as an even I-x43.  At least the exit numbers on 894 will reflect I-41 soon.

i would love to see it happen, but at this point, i think there are to many homes in the way(brown deer is increadibly wealthy, and all those doctors and lawyers arent gonna like eminent domain very much) i also think the public in general in the area would be against a project like that. thats why all the old plans got killed in the first place, though traffic is HORRIBLE now, when it wasnt as bad 20-30 years ago.

[triplemultiplex]

Yeah, you'll never see new freeway construction anywhere in Milwaukee County ever again*.  Especially if it involves those highfalutin' suburbs in the northeast.  The opportunity to have a freeway in the Brown Deer Rd corridor passed decades ago.  Ozaukee County suburbanites are going to have to have a freeway between I-43 and US 41 in THEIR backyards if they want one.


*The proposed Lake Pkwy extension ain't no freeway.

[merrycilantro]

If you think about it, though, a freeway in Ozaukee County (if the residents would have it, or it doesn't get blocked by NIMBY's) wouldn't be such a bad thing. The same could be said for the Lake Country (Waukesha County)...the Belt Freeway was supposed to have gone that direction anyway. (we won't speak of the Bay Freeway, which now that sprawl is what it is, IMHO wouldn't have been a bad thing).

Although, if "Parkways" are the way to go, i guess going 45mph around a city rather than 55/65 is better than going 30-35 stop-and-go on City Streets. That in turn might persuade the NIMBYs to allow it.

In another related topic, they already have the ROW for the Richfield interchange that was supposed to go along with the Belt Freeway, they might as well patch a highway around open fields and weasel something in...

[on_wisconsin]

When will we know AASHTO's choice for the number? Before next week I take it, right?

[merrycilantro]

Checked the AASHTO website, they have some sort of get-together starting today, and had some dealings on the 12th...not sure if they talk business (as in select #s) then, or if it's done outside of that...but I myself am looking forward to finding out...though my gut tells me they will give Wisconsin the OK to duplex US41/I-41, but there really wouldn't be a point to extending the 41 designation down to the IL state line unless AASHTO nixed the 41 idea and instead went for I-47, because I doubt any other state would want to go through the rigamarole of getting okayed to duplex US41 and I-41. Now watch I'm completely off base and they go for a 3di.

As far as a North Milwaukee Bypass...well, as previously stated, I agree that the NIMBY's would never allow such a thing, but I guess, Brown Deer Rd (Hwy 100) would be enough of a "makeshift" bypass, as it's 4 lanes from I-43 to Hwy 41...well for that matter Hwy 100 in its entirety (but for a small portion in southwestern Milwaukee County) is 4 lanes, as if I'm not mistaken it was the original Milwaukee Bypass. Unfortunately, freeway-wise, Milwaukee is just one fragmented freeway after another...maybe someday they'll have (or allow) a decent network to be incorporated.

What I'd like to see is a Spur off 41 going south and connecting to I-43 in Waukesha County. That's a very fast-growing part of the Milwaukee/West Allis/Waukesha Metro Area, and IMO in need of a facility like such. Between Moorland and the City of Waukesha would be good, which would probably be in alignment of the original proposed Belt Freeway. Virtually impossible to build, I realize...but there again, a higher-speed parkway wouldn't be horrible either.