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Will smartphone ownership become a de facto requirement?

Started by hbelkins, September 27, 2021, 04:09:01 PM

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abefroman329

Quote from: 1995hoo on September 28, 2021, 10:06:01 AM
The one downside is that if you are travelling with someone else–you can only have ONE digital key per room, so either both of you must be together or you have to go to the desk to get a second key. But at least you can do that at a time when it's less busy. (Consider the likely wait time difference between arriving at a New York City hotel at 6:30 PM versus stopping by the desk at 9:30 for an extra key.)

That's why I don't use it; I rarely travel alone [and I thought the rule was "one digital key OR keycard(s)," oops].

On the other hand, I can't remember the last time I've had to wait in an obnoxiously long line to check into a hotel.


formulanone

#51
Quote from: jayhawkco on September 28, 2021, 10:08:26 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 28, 2021, 10:06:01 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on September 28, 2021, 09:48:48 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on September 28, 2021, 09:42:22 AMRant - The one thing that cell phones could change, and haven’t.  Hotels.  Checking into a hotel.  You still have to deal with some clerk and go though a long and paper intensive process.  There is no reason that an app could not recognize you when you walked in, causing a dispenser to dispense a keycard (or have the phone itself be the key) with no human interaction.  It shouldn’t take 15 minutes to check into a hotel.

The Hilton chain offers this through their app.  You can select your room, check in, and even use your phone as your key at some hotels. 

....

The Hilton "Digital Key" feature is fantastic. The app lets you check in and select your room up to 24 hours in advance. When you do, if the hotel supports the "Digital Key," you can request it then (or at any time), so when you get to the hotel you simply bypass the check-in desk and go directly to your room and use your phone to unlock the door via Bluetooth. It's great when there's a line at the desk. You can also check out via the app. The one downside is that if you are travelling with someone else—you can only have ONE digital key per room, so either both of you must be together or you have to go to the desk to get a second key. But at least you can do that at a time when it's less busy. (Consider the likely wait time difference between arriving at a New York City hotel at 6:30 PM versus stopping by the desk at 9:30 for an extra key.)

Marriott has this as well, just in case anyone were interested.  It's called Mobile Key.

Chris

Most Hilton properties use it, but I've only tried it twice. Some of the newer or recently-renovated properties have it, but about half do not.

Intercontinental Hotels/Holdings? Group (Holiday Inn, et al) has mobile check-in, but you can't pick the room and I haven't stayed at one that unlocks the door via phone.

Actually haven't stayed at a Marriott property in well over a year...work has gone back to selecting 90% of our hotels. The other 10% seem to be small towns without a negotiated rate, so the pickings are slim.

I think the plastic cards aren't costing the hotels much anyhow, and I doubt the front desk folks feel like troubleshooting people's phones (even if the doorknob assemblies are at fault). Given enough time in a hotel; say 3-5 years, anything can and will be worn out from its clientele, especially anything that gets slammed and is more high-tech than a toilet flange.

Scott5114

#52
Quote from: 1 on September 28, 2021, 08:47:38 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on September 28, 2021, 08:45:45 AM
Quote from: 1 on September 28, 2021, 08:15:42 AM
I've never understood the point of having a credit card if you have a positive amount of money. Why not just take it out of what you have and avoid paying interest?

- Faster to use
- Can use any self-serve cashier station, many do not accept cash
- Can keep track of finances much easier
- Receive points for any manner of things based on the type of credit card
- Build credit. Part of your credit score is average age of credit account, and having one that is 24 years old and counting is helpful for my score
- Avoid a huge loss of cash if you get robbed, lose your wallet, etc

Some of those can just as easily be done with a debit card.

As mentioned above, some credit cards offer various rewards perks like cash back, airline miles, and the like. One other big benefit is that if you have to dispute a transaction (because it was fraudulent, because the amount was wrong, because you told them to cancel a subscription and they kept charging), you are not actually out any money while the disposition of the case is investigated, because you can just not pay. With a debit card, the amount is removed from your bank account at the time of the charge, and only when the case is decided in your favor is the money refunded to your account.

This has never been a big enough deterrent to using a debit card to me, but it is for some people.

Quote from: SP Cook on September 28, 2021, 09:42:22 AM
Cash - Cash has a cost, especially to small businesses.  Somebody has to go to and from the bank every day, which that somebody gets paid for that.  Also the risk of robbery is a thing.  For example, my dry cleaner hasn't taken cash for years.  Works great, and, with no cash on hand, who is going to rob the place?

[...]

I do think that with the inflation that seems to be coming is that the dollar bill is finally going to go away.  It isn't needed and is, AFAIK, the lowest value paper money among major countries.  The smallest Canadian bill is a 5, which is $3.95 US, the smallest Euro is also a 5, which is $5.85, the smallest Pound is also a 5, which is $6.50 US.

While yes, handling cash increases labor cost and risk, believe it or not, cash-handling costs are still lower than credit-card costs for most merchants. For a $25 transaction, the credit-card fee is roughly $1. While this isn't a whole lot, that $1 fee over and over on each transaction adds up quickly. Also, businesses can batch their cash transactions as desired to avoid going to the bank for every transaction (most cash-accepting businesses do one deposit a day). Assuming you pay minimum wage and a bank run takes 15 minutes, cash will be cheaper after only two transactions.

As for the dollar bill...the only reason it hasn't gone away already is that any change to the $1 bill is prohibited by law. That's also why it's still using the 1963 design while every other denomination except the $2 has been redesigned twice. This law was written by Massachusetts senators because the dollar bill paper company is headquartered there and they didn't want the loss in sales. Otherwise, the government would have ditched the $1 back when the Sacagawea dollar first came out.

I don't really get the objection to $1 coins. If they're too heavy to carry around–don't do that? Leave them at home to take to the bank later? Carry $2 bills?

Quote from: J N Winkler on September 28, 2021, 02:22:46 AM
Paying bills on time is indeed one area in which young (and not-so-young) adults can stumble.  It helps to have one place where all bills are kept before they are paid, and get in the habit of sitting down to pay them and handle other household finance tasks (such as balancing the checkbook, updating a Quicken transaction register, etc.) on a regular basis, say once a week.  Some people are very disciplined about opening a bill on the day it arrives in the mail and writing the amount and due date on the outside of the envelope as a reminder.

I've found that paying bills physically printed on paper is much easier than bills delivered and paid electronically for some reason. I had all of my bills converted to paperless last November, when USPS became so unstable in the midst of Louis DeJoy's supposedly cost-saving operational changes that I got charged a late fee by my electric company because my payment got lost in the mail. Now, however, I find it more difficult to keep track of what has been paid and what hasn't, because there isn't the reminder of an unpaid bill in my incoming-mail slot on my desk.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 28, 2021, 10:50:41 AM

As for the dollar bill...the only reason it hasn't gone away already is that any change to the $1 bill is prohibited by law. That's also why it's still using the 1963 design while every other denomination except the $2 has been redesigned twice. This law was written by Massachusetts senators because the dollar bill paper company is headquartered there and they didn't want the loss in sales. Otherwise, the government would have ditched the $1 back when the Sacagawea dollar first came out.

I don't really get the objection to $1 coins. If they're too heavy to carry around–don't do that? Leave them at home to take to the bank later? Carry $2 bills?


So don't change the $1 bill. Just stop printing them. The average bill only lasts about 3 years, so in a decade there won't be any left.

Pennies are worthless, so they need to go and cash transactions can be rounded to the nearest nickel.

Dimes and half dollars are also pretty unnecessary. You can pay exact change for any transaction < $2 with no more than 8 coins (1 dollar + 3 quarters + 4 nickels = $1.95).

If you really want to go all the way with this, $10 and $50 are pretty unnecessary as well. $2, $5, $20 and $100 can cover everything you need.

The amount of money you save by not minting all those denominations would be in the billions.
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hotdogPi

Quote from: cabiness42 on September 28, 2021, 11:22:13 AM
Dimes and half dollars are also pretty unnecessary. You can pay exact change for any transaction < $2 with no more than 8 coins (1 dollar + 3 quarters + 4 nickels = $1.95).

A good test case for this would be Japan, which coins of Â¥1, 5, 10, 50, 100, and 500 (nothing beginning with 2). I've never been there, but someone who has could say whether it works or not. (Â¥1 ≈ 1¢.) The same is true with South Korea, except ₩10 = Â¥1, ₩1 and ₩5 are no longer used due to inflation, and anything above ₩500 is a banknote.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

GaryV

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 28, 2021, 10:50:41 AM
Now, however, I find it more difficult to keep track of what has been paid and what hasn't, because there isn't the reminder of an unpaid bill in my incoming-mail slot on my desk.
Don't delete the email notifying you about a payment due until after you've scheduled the payment.

One thing I don't like about that.  If I schedule the payment for the due date, the credit card "helpfully" sends me a reminder 7 days or 3 days before it's due that I have a payment due.  You mean your fancy-dancy system can't look for scheduled payments before bothering me again?

1995hoo

I don't give creditors direct access to my bank accounts. I use the bank's bill payment system to send payment to the creditors. Most of my electronic bills go directly to my bank, however, so I get an e-mail when one arrives and I can then use the bank's system to schedule the payment. I normally schedule the electronic payment for the business day before the bill is due (e.g., the mortgage is due on the first of the month, so the payment goes out the business day before). Some of them send me nagging e-mails to pay sooner, but I see no reason why I should. They don't reward you for paying early, do they? As long as I pay before the due date to avoid interest, I'm complying with the cardholder agreement (or loan terms, in the mortgage instance, or policy terms, with respect to car insurance).

As GaryV suggests, I keep the e-mail notifying me of an e-bill marked as unread until I've scheduled the payment. Sometimes part of the reason for delaying is because I know which paycheck will be applied to certain bills and I like to wait until after that paycheck is deposited just as an extra precaution against my making a mistake when I set the payment date.
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commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
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NWI_Irish96

Quote from: GaryV on September 28, 2021, 11:39:07 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 28, 2021, 10:50:41 AM
Now, however, I find it more difficult to keep track of what has been paid and what hasn't, because there isn't the reminder of an unpaid bill in my incoming-mail slot on my desk.
Don't delete the email notifying you about a payment due until after you've scheduled the payment.


All my bills are paid on three days during the month. Bills paid by credit card are paid the day after the closing date for my billing cycle (maximizing the grace period to pay off the bill). Bills paid by a debit from my checking account are paid on the day immediately following one of my two paycheck direct deposits, thus avoiding an accidental overdraft.
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Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

zachary_amaryllis

Quote from: hbelkins on September 27, 2021, 04:09:01 PM

So my question was; are we getting to a point where owning a smartphone is going to become a requirement to participate in society?

it does seem that way, doesn't it?

but this doesn't take into account that a lot of people live or work in areas where there's no coverage. for example, where i live, there's 'spotty' 4g -- meaning it works in one part of my yard, but not others. go 2 houses up the street and its gone. there is a pretty big concert venue/bar/restaurant near me (perhaps you've heard of 'the mishawaka'? that has zero coverage, and no wi-fi. imagine trying to get an uber or whatever from there. when i leave my house, there's about 15 miles of zero coverage, then, when i exit the canyon, the phone will go nuts with its honking/tooting/whistling/what-have-you as it 'catches up'.

i am not a truck driver, but it seems a lot of areas truck drivers go through would have no coverage.
clinched:
I-64, I-80, I-76 (west), *64s in hampton roads, 225,270,180 (co, wy)

J N Winkler

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 28, 2021, 10:50:41 AM
Quote from: 1 on September 28, 2021, 08:47:38 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on September 28, 2021, 08:45:45 AM
Quote from: 1 on September 28, 2021, 08:15:42 AMI've never understood the point of having a credit card if you have a positive amount of money. Why not just take it out of what you have and avoid paying interest?

- Faster to use
- Can use any self-serve cashier station, many do not accept cash
- Can keep track of finances much easier
- Receive points for any manner of things based on the type of credit card
- Build credit. Part of your credit score is average age of credit account, and having one that is 24 years old and counting is helpful for my score
- Avoid a huge loss of cash if you get robbed, lose your wallet, etc

Some of those can just as easily be done with a debit card.

As mentioned above, some credit cards offer various rewards perks like cash back, airline miles, and the like. One other big benefit is that if you have to dispute a transaction (because it was fraudulent, because the amount was wrong, because you told them to cancel a subscription and they kept charging), you are not actually out any money while the disposition of the case is investigated, because you can just not pay. With a debit card, the amount is removed from your bank account at the time of the charge, and only when the case is decided in your favor is the money refunded to your account.

This has never been a big enough deterrent to using a debit card to me, but it is for some people.

I am one of those people--I don't feel safe about carrying a pipeline to my bank account in my wallet.  I also ignore emails from toll road authorities and the like urging me to add my bank account information "so [you] don't have to worry about your credit card expiring."

With the credit card I use the most heavily for transactions, there isn't interest on charges less than one billing cycle old, though there are finance charges on cash withdrawals.

It can also be cheaper to pay with a credit card than with cash when travelling outside the dollar zone, since foreign-currency transactions are billed to your account at the interbank rate, which is typically more favorable than the spread you get from a currency exchange.

All of this said, it does pay to study the terms and conditions carefully to ensure you are availing yourself of all the protection that our (lax) consumer-finance laws give you.  For example, cards that offer rewards often come with fees, so it pays to check that the former will be greater than the latter for your spending patterns.  And applying for a new credit card will ding your credit score temporarily since it counts as opening a new line of credit.
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CtrlAltDel

I think it's important to point out that this sort of thing didn't start with phones. A hundred years ago, very few people had a car, and now it's similarly ubiquitous. Is it possible to get around without it? Yes. Is it usually easy? No. But people get by.
Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
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SP Cook

I will join the others in saying, NEVER give ANYBODY access to your bank account.  The legal saying "possession is 9/10th of the law"  is a real thing.

With a debit card, when there is a mistake, THEY have your money and you have to get it back.  With a credit card, YOU have your money and can simply dispute the charge.

With an automatic bill pay, when there is a mistake, THEY have your money and you have to get it back.  With electronic bills that you then pay via your phone or computer, YOU have your money.

The only exception I have ever made to this is my car insurance.  My state is really strict about allowing insurance companies to cancel, requiring multiple expensive certified letters and such, just for a non-payment.  Thus my insurance company (which is one of the big ones) gives me a whopping 15% discount for allowing them to auto draft my checking account.  That is worth it. 

As to foreign transactions, the best thing to do is to simply call the card issuer.  The policies differ, but if it is important to you, you can find a card that does not charge for this fee.  Same thing goes for cell phone roaming deals as well.

I will admit that most of my travels in the last 10 or so years have been in the 3rd world, where I have business interests, but the US$ operates as a parallel currency, if not a preferred one.  You can just find an ATM and take out cash, often the same machine will dispense both, and sometimes Euros as well, and go with that.  I go to Nicaragua at least twice a year, and the government mandates that everybody gets a raise of about 5% every 6 months, which, of course, just devalues the currency, so everybody who is trying to save turns it into either US$ or Mexican pesos and keeps it hidden.  No one uses banks for savings.


kalvado

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on September 28, 2021, 08:26:45 AM
I never really used the credit card points thing myself.  I tried it a couple times but I would sometimes forget to pay everything off before the interest hit.  That was enough to dissuade me from the practice.  My wife is big on paying on credit card and paying them off.  She has to constantly monitor the activity of those cards which seems like too much work versus accumulating maybe $100-$200 dollars in rewards annually.
You can use debit card with at least some of the same features as credit card. Just remember to lock overdraft at the bank.

I, for one, didn't pay anything other than foreign transaction fee within past decade or more (and maybe a total of $5 in fees and interest before that). Some free stuff via points is nice, but I can live without it. Monitoring things is pretty easy these days - I get a text for any transaction over $20. Printout of all the expenses at the end of the month helps with budgeting.
However, these are all small things, shared by debit and credit cards.

Big thing is that credit card company offer a lot of protection. You can basically tell them to handle any problem you got, and they will take care of it. Credit card  companies have all the leverage on vendors they may want, while you would likely have hard time dealing with same issues.

hbelkins

Quote from: cabiness42 on September 28, 2021, 11:22:13 AM
Pennies are worthless, so they need to go and cash transactions can be rounded to the nearest nickel.

Nope. Unless you round down (in my favor) every time, I want no part of that. I do not want to give anyone one cent (literally) of my money that they are not entitled to. I don't care if it averages out in my favor. It's the principle of the thing.

If a bag of potato chips costs me 99 cents at the grocery store, the grocery store should get 99 cents of my money. Not $1.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

webny99

Quote from: hbelkins on September 28, 2021, 02:50:58 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 28, 2021, 11:22:13 AM
Pennies are worthless, so they need to go and cash transactions can be rounded to the nearest nickel.

Nope. Unless you round down (in my favor) every time, I want no part of that. I do not want to give anyone one cent (literally) of my money that they are not entitled to. I don't care if it averages out in my favor. It's the principle of the thing.

If a bag of potato chips costs me 99 cents at the grocery store, the grocery store should get 99 cents of my money. Not $1.

It wouldn't make any difference if they just marked the price as $1. That's much smaller than even a standard price increase.

kalvado

Quote from: hbelkins on September 28, 2021, 02:50:58 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 28, 2021, 11:22:13 AM
Pennies are worthless, so they need to go and cash transactions can be rounded to the nearest nickel.

Nope. Unless you round down (in my favor) every time, I want no part of that. I do not want to give anyone one cent (literally) of my money that they are not entitled to. I don't care if it averages out in my favor. It's the principle of the thing.

If a bag of potato chips costs me 99 cents at the grocery store, the grocery store should get 99 cents of my money. Not $1.
They will happily round that down to $1.05 off a $1.09 bag for you personally.

kalvado

Quote from: webny99 on September 28, 2021, 02:57:48 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 28, 2021, 02:50:58 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 28, 2021, 11:22:13 AM
Pennies are worthless, so they need to go and cash transactions can be rounded to the nearest nickel.

Nope. Unless you round down (in my favor) every time, I want no part of that. I do not want to give anyone one cent (literally) of my money that they are not entitled to. I don't care if it averages out in my favor. It's the principle of the thing.

If a bag of potato chips costs me 99 cents at the grocery store, the grocery store should get 99 cents of my money. Not $1.

It wouldn't make any difference if they just marked the price as $1. That's much smaller than even a standard price increase.
What can make thins more involved is a variety of sales tax laws and rates.
Chips may be exempt from tax in NY, but a 99c bottle of coke actually costs 0.99+0.08 tax + 0.05 deposit = $1.12 - and it is only $1.11 across the river from me as  the tax is a bit lower there.


NWI_Irish96

Quote from: hbelkins on September 28, 2021, 02:50:58 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 28, 2021, 11:22:13 AM
Pennies are worthless, so they need to go and cash transactions can be rounded to the nearest nickel.

Nope. Unless you round down (in my favor) every time, I want no part of that. I do not want to give anyone one cent (literally) of my money that they are not entitled to. I don't care if it averages out in my favor. It's the principle of the thing.

If a bag of potato chips costs me 99 cents at the grocery store, the grocery store should get 99 cents of my money. Not $1.

I imagine prices would be set so that when tax (if applicable) is added, it comes out on the nose. Instead of rounding up from $0.98 to $1.00, they'll just add 2 cents to the price and you'll never know the difference.

FYI: On anything that has sales tax, you're been paying rounded up prices your entire life.
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Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

hotdogPi

Quote from: cabiness42 on September 28, 2021, 03:07:52 PM
FYI: On anything that has sales tax, you're been paying rounded up prices your entire life.

It rounds correctly in Massachusetts, and I believe down on a tie*, although I'm not entirely sure.

*Dollar Tree. 6.25% state tax and 0.75% local tax that I thought was statewide but apparently isn't. One item is $1.06; two are $2.12. The only way this can happen is rounding down.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

SectorZ

Quote from: 1 on September 28, 2021, 03:23:43 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 28, 2021, 03:07:52 PM
FYI: On anything that has sales tax, you're been paying rounded up prices your entire life.

It rounds correctly in Massachusetts, and I believe down on a tie*, although I'm not entirely sure.

*Dollar Tree. 6.25% state tax and 0.75% local tax that I thought was statewide but apparently isn't. One item is $1.06; two are $2.12. The only way this can happen is rounding down.

The 0.75% tax is for meals tax, not sales tax, and it is a local option for cities and towns to add since it goes to them, not the state.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: cabiness42 on September 28, 2021, 03:07:52 PM
FYI: On anything that has sales tax, you're been paying rounded up prices your entire life.

Cash registers are generally programmed to calculate the sales tax, then round up or down as it would occur in normal mathematics.   This is really, really simple to calculate on your own.

Chances are, if you look in the taxation division website for your state, you'll find a tax calculation schedule and will see what the sales tax breakdown would be.  You'll notice it's just conventional rounding, not up-rounding.

hbelkins

Quote from: cabiness42 on September 28, 2021, 03:07:52 PM

I imagine prices would be set so that when tax (if applicable) is added, it comes out on the nose. Instead of rounding up from $0.98 to $1.00, they'll just add 2 cents to the price and you'll never know the difference.

This happens locally with the two community newspapers. One has a cover price of 50 cents, the other 75 cents. When they're purchased in a store, you pay the cover price, not 53 cents for the 50-cent paper and 79 cents for the 75-cent paper. The receipt even breaks it down.

Quote from: kalvado on September 28, 2021, 03:01:36 PM
What can make thins more involved is a variety of sales tax laws and rates.
Chips may be exempt from tax in NY, but a 99c bottle of coke actually costs 0.99+0.08 tax + 0.05 deposit = $1.12 - and it is only $1.11 across the river from me as  the tax is a bit lower there.

I remember New York state having different sales tax rates for different types of items. I made a purchase at the Elmira/Horseheads-area Walmart years ago, and I remember seeing at least two different tax rates listed on my receipt with different items being flagged for the different rates.

In Kentucky, if you buy a Hershey's chocolate candy bar or a Reese's Cup, you'll pay a 6 percent sales tax. But not if you buy a KitKit bar. When I inquired, I was told that the reason is that the KitKat contains crackers (wafers) and thus that makes it a tax-exempt food.

Here's another weird example. Taxes are levied on taxes. Some communities in Kentucky have levied an optional 3 percent restaurant tax that is dedicated for tourism and recreation. This is on top of the 6 percent general sales tax. A $5 Wendy's Biggie Bag should cost you $5.45 out of pocket, right? (Take $5 and add 9 percent to it?) Nope, it's $5.46. Someone is charging tax on the previously-taxed total. I don't know if the city is charging its 3 percent on top of $5.30, or if the state is charging 3 percent on top of $5.15, but someone's getting an extra penny.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

vdeane

It's worth noting that if you pay income taxes, you're already rounding, because the IRS only works in whole dollar increments.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SSOWorld

Quote from: vdeane on September 28, 2021, 09:35:15 PM
It's worth noting that if you pay income taxes, you're already rounding, because the IRS only works in whole dollar increments.
truncating, not rounding
Scott O.

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CtrlAltDel

Quote from: SSOWorld on September 28, 2021, 10:03:32 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 28, 2021, 09:35:15 PM
It's worth noting that if you pay income taxes, you're already rounding, because the IRS only works in whole dollar increments.
truncating, not rounding

They will probably allow you to get away with that, but according to the 1040 instructions, page 23:

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