A Last Smile and a Wave for Bay Area Commuters

[cpzilliacus]

N.Y. Times:  A Last Smile and a Wave for Bay Area Commuters

To hear Jackie Dean tell it, it all started more than 18 years ago with her cousin Peaches's beat-up Lincoln, a tip from her friend Gayle and possible betrayal by her own mother. But, really, it may have actually started back in the second grade, in Mr. John's class, when Jackie and her classmates read the most books in their school in Oakland and won a choice of a field trip.

"We had Great America, Marine World, Frontier Village – we had all kinds of places we could've gone to,"  Ms. Dean said. "Why we chose the Golden Gate Bridge, I couldn't tell you."

So maybe the Golden Gate chose her, the way she sees it. Ms. Dean began working as a toll collector on the bridge 18 years ago. "It was an 18-year adventure,"  she said. "I met people from all over the world. I kissed babies from different countries. I've taken pictures for people from all over the world. I've seen cars that aren't even out, the prototypes."  

[roadfro]

You just don't think about these kinds of impacts until they go away. Nice story.

I had no idea the bridge was going all electronic tolls.

[agentsteel53]

I wonder how they are gonna bill me by mail.  Will I have to sit at a booth, craned at an awful angle, and type out my full address on a touch-screen?

ATMs are bad enough ergonomically, and they only make me hit about 8 buttons to deposit a check!

[TheStranger]

I wonder how they are gonna bill me by mail.  Will I have to sit at a booth, craned at an awful angle, and type out my full address on a touch-screen?

ATMs are bad enough ergonomically, and they only make me hit about 8 buttons to deposit a check!

License plate scan, just like the toll roads in Austin.

[agentsteel53]

License plate scan, just like the toll roads in Austin.

Motorists will be able to pay their tolls with the existing FasTrak electronic toll system or a new license-plate-linked account; others can simply elect to get a bill in the mail.

it seems to me that the third option is distinct from "license plate scan".  or is there a simple one-time-use thing, where the plate is matched to its registered owner, and said owner gets a bill in the mail?

[TheStranger]

it seems to me that the third option is distinct from "license plate scan".  or is there a simple one-time-use thing, where the plate is matched to its registered owner, and said owner gets a bill in the mail?

I had been under the impression it was the latter, but let me doublecheck:

http://www.goldengate.org/tolls/faqs.php

The FAQ lists both plate account and mailed invoice as options for the license plate scan.

[Alex]

The end of toll takers at the Golden Gate Bridge even made BBC News:

Golden Gate: Electronic tolls for San Francisco bridge

[myosh_tino]

The end of toll takers at the Golden Gate Bridge even made BBC News:

Golden Gate: Electronic tolls for San Francisco bridge

One of the local TV stations covering the conversion adding an interesting little tidbit.  The district has no plans to remove the toll plaza just in case all electronic tolling doesn't work as expected.

My great fear is that if all-electronic tolling is a success, then what's to stop the Golden Gate Bridge from implementing tolls in the northbound direction.  The system to collect tolls by license plate now exists so to add the additional hardware to toll northbound traffic seems pretty trivial.

[lordsutch]

One of the local TV stations covering the conversion adding an interesting little tidbit.  The district has no plans to remove the toll plaza just in case all electronic tolling doesn't work as expected.

My great fear is that if all-electronic tolling is a success, then what's to stop the Golden Gate Bridge from implementing tolls in the northbound direction.  The system to collect tolls by license plate now exists so to add the additional hardware to toll northbound traffic seems pretty trivial.

I doubt they'll do that until all the Bay Area bridges move to bidirectional tolling.  Even then, you'll have political pressure to make the new bidirectional toll half of the old unidirectional one.

[myosh_tino]

My great fear is that if all-electronic tolling is a success, then what's to stop the Golden Gate Bridge from implementing tolls in the northbound direction.  The system to collect tolls by license plate now exists so to add the additional hardware to toll northbound traffic seems pretty trivial.

I doubt they'll do that until all the Bay Area bridges move to bidirectional tolling.  Even then, you'll have political pressure to make the new bidirectional toll half of the old unidirectional one.

I'm not so sure.  The Golden Gate Bridge District is a pretty independent thinker IMO and they are having financial problems which is why they got rid of the toll takers in the first place.  If the financial problems do not go away, I can easily see them wanting to toll northbound traffic.  I agree tolls will need to come down but it would probably be $4 credit/plate and $3 FasTrak.

[realjd]

License plate scan, just like the toll roads in Austin.

Motorists will be able to pay their tolls with the existing FasTrak electronic toll system or a new license-plate-linked account; others can simply elect to get a bill in the mail.

it seems to me that the third option is distinct from "license plate scan".  or is there a simple one-time-use thing, where the plate is matched to its registered owner, and said owner gets a bill in the mail?

If it's like SunPass, there are three options: transponder (discount), preregister your plate online with a transponderless SunPass account (regular toll rates), or bill by mail (regular toll rates + administrative fee). They read your plate number and bill the car's registered owner. If it's a rental, the rental car company bills your credit card for the toll.

[myosh_tino]

If it's like SunPass, there are three options: transponder (discount), preregister your plate online with a transponderless SunPass account (regular toll rates), or bill by mail (regular toll rates + administrative fee). They read your plate number and bill the car's registered owner. If it's a rental, the rental car company bills your credit card for the toll plus an administrative fee.

FTFY.

To elaborate, if you use a rental car and cross any of the Bay Area toll bridges without paying the toll in cash, the toll amount gets charged to your credit card PLUS $3 per day for the duration of your rental for the "convenience" of paying the toll electronically.  So if you have a 5-day rental and cross the Golden Gate Bridge once (heading southbound of course), you will be charged $21.00 ($6 toll + 5 days @ $3/day) by the car rental company.  A total rip-off IMO.

[realjd]

If it's like SunPass, there are three options: transponder (discount), preregister your plate online with a transponderless SunPass account (regular toll rates), or bill by mail (regular toll rates + administrative fee). They read your plate number and bill the car's registered owner. If it's a rental, the rental car company bills your credit card for the toll plus an administrative fee.

FTFY.

To elaborate, if you use a rental car and cross any of the Bay Area toll bridges without paying the toll in cash, the toll amount gets charged to your credit card PLUS $3 per day for the duration of your rental for the "convenience" of paying the toll electronically.  So if you have a 5-day rental and cross the Golden Gate Bridge once (heading southbound of course), you will be charged $21.00 ($6 toll + 5 days @ $3/day) by the car rental company.  A total rip-off IMO.

It takes non-zero effort on the rental car company's part to process those tolls and bill the proper customer. I small administrative charge (and $3/day is small) seems fair. If you don't like it you're always free to go purchase an actual transponder.

[agentsteel53]

It takes non-zero effort on the rental car company's part to process those tolls and bill the proper customer. I small administrative charge (and $3/day is small) seems fair. If you don't like it you're always free to go purchase an actual transponder.

an administrative cost is fair.  to tie it to the number of days of total rental is not.  number of uses of the transponder seems the most fair - but I'd imagine "number of different days used" is fairly low-overhead to implement, and seems fair as well.

[myosh_tino]

It takes non-zero effort on the rental car company's part to process those tolls and bill the proper customer. I small administrative charge (and $3/day is small) seems fair. If you don't like it you're always free to go purchase an actual transponder.

So $21 for a $6 toll sounds fair to you?   $3 per day may be a fair administrative charge but to apply it for the duration of your rental is excessive.  A more reasonable approach would be to charge $3 for each day a transaction occurs.

[realjd]

A more reasonable approach would be to charge $3 for each day a transaction occurs.

Isn't that how it works? I've never been billed a toll administrative fee by a rental company - in any country - for a day I didn't go through a toll booth.

[myosh_tino]

A more reasonable approach would be to charge $3 for each day a transaction occurs.

Isn't that how it works? I've never been billed a toll administrative fee by a rental company - in any country - for a day I didn't go through a toll booth.

I think that depends on what company handles the electronic tolls.

Hertz uses PlatePass which charges a $3 fee PER rental day which means if you had a 5-day rental and had an ETC transaction on the last day of your rental, you'd be charged the toll PLUS $15 (5 days @ $3 per day).

Alamo and Enterprise use TollPass which starts charging the daily "convenience" fee upon first use.  So, using the same example I used for Hertz, you'd only get charged the toll plus $3 but if you had an ETC transaction in day 3 of your 5 day rental, you'd be charged the toll plus $9 (3 days @ $3 per day).

The Golden Gate Bridge website has a good resource page that explains how each rental company handles tolls and what 3rd party company they work with.

[realjd]

I just looked it up. PlatePass caps at 5 days per 30, so the max per rental is $15. National/Alamo/Enterprise/Europcar also cap theirs at $15 per rental. It's very much worth the convenience IMO.

[relaxok]

I don't see this mentioned anywhere here, but as of a week ago or so, the Golden Gate Bridge is automatic tolling.  Big sign saying "do not stop" etc.

Apparently FastTrak users still get the $1 discount.  I imagine collecting on these bills for random people (especially non-CA residents) is quite the headache.

FWIW if anything I've noticed the traffic being slower/worse since the change.  I drive the GGB a few times a week to visit my gf.

EDIT: sorry, I see there is discussion of this in the 'last smile and wave' thread.  For some reason it didn't come up for me when searching.  Can't delete this though.


Merged topics. --Roadfro

[Mdcastle]

If it's like SunPass, there are three options: transponder (discount), preregister your plate online with a transponderless SunPass account (regular toll rates), or bill by mail (regular toll rates + administrative fee). They read your plate number and bill the car's registered owner. If it's a rental, the rental car company bills your credit card for the toll plus an administrative fee.

FTFY.

To elaborate, if you use a rental car and cross any of the Bay Area toll bridges without paying the toll in cash, the toll amount gets charged to your credit card PLUS $3 per day for the duration of your rental for the "convenience" of paying the toll electronically.  So if you have a 5-day rental and cross the Golden Gate Bridge once (heading southbound of course), you will be charged $21.00 ($6 toll + 5 days @ $3/day) by the car rental company.  A total rip-off IMO.

It takes non-zero effort on the rental car company's part to process those tolls and bill the proper customer. I small administrative charge (and $3/day is small) seems fair. If you don't like it you're always free to go purchase an actual transponder.

Buy a transponder to travel one direction once.

This does really infuriate me how electronic toll roads and rental car companies work to absolutely horrendously price-gouge anyone lucky enough to use their services. In Florida at least you can buy a $5.00 sticker, but they should make it so you can buy if from a vending machine at the airport while waiting for your bags if they must have electronic only toll roads. I always rent from Dollar. That means the Golden Gate Bridge toll is would cost me $39.95 if I went southbound once during the week I plan to visit.

[deathtopumpkins]

If it's like SunPass, there are three options: transponder (discount), preregister your plate online with a transponderless SunPass account (regular toll rates), or bill by mail (regular toll rates + administrative fee). They read your plate number and bill the car's registered owner. If it's a rental, the rental car company bills your credit card for the toll plus an administrative fee.

FTFY.

To elaborate, if you use a rental car and cross any of the Bay Area toll bridges without paying the toll in cash, the toll amount gets charged to your credit card PLUS $3 per day for the duration of your rental for the "convenience" of paying the toll electronically.  So if you have a 5-day rental and cross the Golden Gate Bridge once (heading southbound of course), you will be charged $21.00 ($6 toll + 5 days @ $3/day) by the car rental company.  A total rip-off IMO.

It takes non-zero effort on the rental car company's part to process those tolls and bill the proper customer. I small administrative charge (and $3/day is small) seems fair. If you don't like it you're always free to go purchase an actual transponder.

Buy a transponder to travel one direction once.

This does really infuriate me how electronic toll roads and rental car companies work to absolutely horrendously price-gouge anyone lucky enough to use their services. In Florida at least you can buy a $5.00 sticker, but they should make it so you can buy if from a vending machine at the airport while waiting for your bags if they must have electronic only toll roads.

I'm sure it's not like this everywhere, but in Massachusetts you can walk into a convenience store and purchase a transponder with $20 in tolls preloaded onto it - for $20.

[vdeane]

But who wants to get a device and establish an account with someone for a one-time use?

The rental car stuff is just price gouging.  It's all electronic records.  You just need one database query to match the toll charge with the credit card of the renter.  Once programmed, it can be done automatically, no humans needed.  Cost: $0.

[deathtopumpkins]

But who wants to get a device and establish an account with someone for a one-time use?

The MA ones I mentioned are prepaid - I'm almost certain you don't need to activate them or anything before you use them. You'd only need to create an account if you wished to add more money. Basically if you know you're going to use an all-electronic toll road, or you wish to have the convenience of not paying cash, you stop at a convenience store and pick one up, and then use it.

I agree though that rental cars shouldn't be this much of a hassle, but it should be no surprise that they want to charge you out the nose for it.

[briantroutman]

I don't think I've seen this discussed yet, but when (if) pay-by-plate is added to other Bay Area bridges, why would we need FasTrak transponders at all? If you've pre-registered your plate and payment information, I don't see how pay-by-plate is any costlier or less convenient for the agency. The plate recognition equipment is already there and costs the same if used one time or a million times.

The rental car stuff is just price gouging.  It's all electronic records.  You just need one database query to match the toll charge with the credit card of the renter.  Once programmed, it can be done automatically, no humans needed.  Cost: $0.

There was another thread that mentioned E-ZPass users in the East not getting the discounted E-ZPass rate for having an out-of-state transponder, which is also price gouging. I think we–nationally–need standards for interoperability of tolling systems. If pay-by-plate is feasible economically (and as more toll roads go all-electronic), I suggest all transponder-based systems should be eliminated and any out-of-state-type surcharges be expressly forbidden.

And as for rental companies adding surcharges to electronic tolls, that should be just as illegal as adding a private surcharge on top of sales tax.

[vdeane]

Agencies typically tack on a very large surcharge for pay-by-plate, especially without the pre-registering.  In many cases I think it's even higher than the PlatePass charges (why don't they call PlatePass E-ZPass anyways?  Why the other branding?  So more people won't realize the charges aren't BS?).