Rural Freeways That Need Six Lanes

[sprjus4]

^ By that logic, I-95 has US 1 and/or US 301 parallel to it through Virginia.

And I'm with Hoo...passing's a lot easier on I-95 than it is on I-81.

The southern half isn't much an issue, so I wouldn't consider US 301 for that matter. As for US 1 being a parallel route in congested areas, US 1 is just as bad if not worse than I-95 during most of the day. US 11 on the other handle is relatively rural, and traffic rarely has to use it to bypass traffic.

Agreed, it's easier to pass on I-95 because of more lane capacity. You can pass when the guy in front of you is doing 35 MPH and you need to get around at 38 MPH. On I-81, you can't pass the truck doing 68 MPH passing the truck doing 65 MPH. When there's not a lot of traffic on I-95, you can pass both of those trucks at 70 or more MPH. When I-95 is congested, majority of the time, you're lucky if you can do 40 MPH.

That is when the state has to set priorities for allocations around the state. 

So what will the state chose - the road that has 40,000 AADT, most of the time moving 70+ MPH, some slow downs to 65 MPH when a truck passes, clear parallel route, or the road that has 100,000+ AADT, has traffic down to 35 MPH majority of the time, heavily congested parallel routes, and has parts that carry 200,000 AADT with only 6 lanes?

I-95 has gotten $6 billion in expansion completions and under construction since 2007 between Richmond and Oxon Hill MD.  Not to mention the widenings I listed in the 1970s thru 1990s.

I-81 has gotten little in comparison.  VA I-81 is 325 miles long and has more total VMT and more large truck VMT than VA I-95.  The VA I-81 counties have about 1 million people, so it is not some kind of wilderness.

I-95 has received billions in improvements and expansion because it is constantly congested, has many issues, and still has many issues. I-81 has received few improvements because the truck holding traffic up at 65 MPH passing the one doing 62 MPH doesn't create 5+ mile backups to 35 MPH and clog every parallel road and create a traffic nightmare in every city it passes through.

---------------------
For all these, I will say I support both I-95 being widened to 8 lanes or C/D lanes added, I-64 & I-81 to six lanes, but it needs to be done in just that order. The urbanized, heavily traffic areas that do an average of 35 - 40 MPH are going to gain more priority over the route where you can't always pass doing 70 or more MPH.

[Beltway]

So what will the state chose - the road that has 40,000 AADT, most of the time moving 70+ MPH, some slow downs to 65 MPH when a truck passes, clear parallel route, or the road that has 100,000+ AADT, has traffic down to 35 MPH majority of the time, heavily congested parallel routes, and has parts that carry 200,000 AADT with only 6 lanes?

I-81 has serious congestion problems on at least 20 weekends Fri-Sun per year.  There is no "clear parallel route".  The I-95 sections that have 100,000+ AADT have at least 3 lanes each way and during peak hours some segments have as much as 7 lanes in the peak direction.  I don't know about you but I usually go the speed limit on I-95 anywhere on the corridor and that is not in the middle of the night.

[sprjus4]

So what will the state chose - the road that has 40,000 AADT, most of the time moving 70+ MPH, some slow downs to 65 MPH when a truck passes, clear parallel route, or the road that has 100,000+ AADT, has traffic down to 35 MPH majority of the time, heavily congested parallel routes, and has parts that carry 200,000 AADT with only 6 lanes?

I-81 has serious congestion problems on at least 20 weekends Fri-Sun per year.  There is no "clear parallel route".  The I-95 sections that have 100,000+ AADT have at least 3 lanes each way and during peak hours some segments have as much as 7 lanes in the peak direction.  I don't know about you but I usually go the speed limit on I-95 anywhere on the corridor and that is not in the middle of the night.

Have you driven it weekly on Friday afternoons heading southbound? And there's been numerous of times I'll head up I-95 from Richmond northward during a normal day and it's up to 60 MPH, then back to 30 MPH, then back up to 50 MPH, then down to 30 MPH, etc.

What areas have congestion issues on I-81? I've never ran into any spots, even on peak travel weekends. I'm curious to know.

[Beltway]

I-81 has serious congestion problems on at least 20 weekends Fri-Sun per year.  There is no "clear parallel route".  The I-95 sections that have 100,000+ AADT have at least 3 lanes each way and during peak hours some segments have as much as 7 lanes in the peak direction.  I don't know about you but I usually go the speed limit on I-95 anywhere on the corridor and that is not in the middle of the night.

Have you driven it weekly on Friday afternoons heading southbound? And there's been numerous of times I'll head up I-95 from Richmond northward during a normal day and it's up to 60 MPH, then back to 30 MPH, then back up to 50 MPH, then down to 30 MPH, etc.

Most of the time it is pretty fast.  I also take advantage of the HOT lanes when I can.

What areas have congestion issues on I-81? I've never ran into any spots, even on peak travel weekends. I'm curious to know.

Rolling backups can happen anywhere and without visible explanation.

[sprjus4]

I-81 has serious congestion problems on at least 20 weekends Fri-Sun per year.  There is no "clear parallel route".  The I-95 sections that have 100,000+ AADT have at least 3 lanes each way and during peak hours some segments have as much as 7 lanes in the peak direction.  I don't know about you but I usually go the speed limit on I-95 anywhere on the corridor and that is not in the middle of the night.

Have you driven it weekly on Friday afternoons heading southbound? And there's been numerous of times I'll head up I-95 from Richmond northward during a normal day and it's up to 60 MPH, then back to 30 MPH, then back up to 50 MPH, then down to 30 MPH, etc.

Most of the time it is pretty fast.  I also take advantage of the HOT lanes when I can.

Well there's no doubt that the HOT lanes are congestion free 24/7, most people don't use them, hence there's a lot of congestion. Some people cannot afford to pay $25 on a Friday afternoon just to reach Stafford, not to mention every day, twice. That's up to $250 per week, $1,000 per month, and $12,000 per year exclusively in tolls.

Rolling backups can happen anywhere and without visible explanation.

Down to what speed? 50 MPH, or close to nothing?

I'll say it again though, I support six laning rural portions of I-81, it's just the I-95 corridor between Fredericksburg and DC rank higher and should come first. Fredericksburg to Richmond is at the same level of priority I'd say as I-81. One idea I would support to get funding would be to collect tolls at certain rural locations for exclusively for out-of-state traffic, because most of the traffic is thru and not local, and use those funds to widen the road. It would cost up to $10+ billion to widen all of I-81 to six lanes, and would be seriously difficult to get funded, and take 20+ years. I-95 on the other hand is more likely to receive the state & federal funding, up to $2 billion to expand.

[Beltway]

Most of the time it is pretty fast.  I also take advantage of the HOT lanes when I can.

Well there's no doubt that the HOT lanes are congestion free 24/7, most people don't use them, hence there's a lot of congestion. Some people cannot afford to pay $25 on a Friday afternoon just to reach Stafford, not to mention every day, twice. That's up to $250 per week, $1,000 per month, and $12,000 per year exclusively in tolls.

The HOT lanes get plenty of usage, and those who can use them but don't use them still get the benefit of having 5 lanes (or more) in the direction of peak traffic.

Rolling backups can happen anywhere and without visible explanation.

Down to what speed? 50 MPH, or close to nothing?

Down to stop and go traffic that causes 5 or 10 minutes of delay just for each occurrence.

I'll say it again though, I support six laning rural portions of I-81, it's just the I-95 corridor between Fredericksburg and DC rank higher and should come first.

That reminds me of when I was first interested in highways from 1970 onward, I lived in Alexandria and was frustrated at the delays in getting the Beltway in Virginia widened, while seeing the progress in getting segments of VA I-77 under construction.  The Beltway carried almost 100,000 AADT and most of the Virginia portion was only 4 lanes.  US-52 was only carrying what a 2-lane highway could carry.   I thought it was "unfair" given the much higher volumes on the Washington Beltway that its widening projects seemed to have lower priority than building I-77 which is in a mostly rural part of the state.

Can you see what were the errors in my thinking back then?

[sprjus4]

The HOT lanes get plenty of usage, and those who can use them but don't use them still get the benefit of having 5 lanes (or more) in the direction of peak traffic.

The point is the majority of the traffic stays in the general purpose lanes. Some of that traffic in the HO/T lanes is also HOV traffic, which isn't an option to everybody. Yes, the benefit of having them exists for all, but it's minimal. There's also plenty of times where traffic is heavy in one direction, but the lanes are flowing another. A good example is every Sunday night (and actually looking at it, right now).

Down to stop and go traffic that causes 5 or 10 minutes of delay just for each occurrence.

Understandable, but it's still not nearly as a bad as I-95.

That reminds me of when I was first interested in highways from 1970 onward, I lived in Alexandria and was frustrated at the delays in getting the Beltway in Virginia widened, while seeing the progress in getting segments of VA I-77 under construction.  The Beltway carried almost 100,000 AADT and most of the Virginia portion was only 4 lanes.  US-52 was only carrying what a 2-lane highway could carry.   I thought it was "unfair" given the much higher volumes on the Washington Beltway that its widening projects seemed to have lower priority than building I-77 which is in a mostly rural part of the state.

Can you see what were the errors in my thinking back then?

Interstate 77 was an original interstate that was funded by federal-aid, very little from VDOT. The Beltway on the other hand was mainly the state funding for widening projects. The issue today is that now both are in the hands of VDOT to tackle, and the money has to be given where appropriate. I-81 is going to rank lower on that list than I-95 is, we've already seen that for years. I-64 is now finally getting the widening it needs, and mainly thanks to HRTAC for accelerating many projects in the region, like the I-264 interchange, High Rise Bridge, HRBT, and the Peninsula widening. The reason the rest isn't funded outside of the HR district is because of the same reasons I-81 isn't getting anything. Even so, I-64 carries 60,000+ AADT between Williamsburg and I-295 and would still rank over I-81. It's also important to note I-64 widening is about 30 miles more needed, I-95 is about 40, and I-81 would be 323 miles.

It'd be reasonable to get urban widening projects completed on I-81 in the next few years, then once those are settled, moving to the rural areas and doing those in phases, or it can be set up as a toll / truck-toll road as previously proposed and get completed within 10 years fully.

[Beltway]

The HOT lanes get plenty of usage, and those who can use them but don't use them still get the benefit of having 5 lanes (or more) in the direction of peak traffic.

The point is the majority of the traffic stays in the general purpose lanes. Some of that traffic in the HO/T lanes is also HOV traffic, which isn't an option to everybody. Yes, the benefit of having them exists for all, but it's minimal. There's also plenty of times where traffic is heavy in one direction, but the lanes are flowing another. A good example is every Sunday night (and actually looking at it, right now).

The HOT lanes in peak periods often carry near the full capacity of lanes, which could approach 4,000 VPH for two lanes.  The second half of Sunday normally is oriented toward D.C. with NB HOT.  The usual reason why "traffic is heavy in one direction but the lanes are flowing another" is usually not true, it is the visual effect of 5 or more lanes in one direction simply greatly thinning out the traffic on each lane as compared to it all being in 3 lanes.

Down to stop and go traffic that causes 5 or 10 minutes of delay just for each occurrence.

Understandable, but it's still not nearly as a bad as I-95.

In 325 miles if that happens 10 times those users would disagree.  That is why I-81 has its reputation.  The other states between TN and PA inclusive have the same problem.

Interstate 77 was an original interstate that was funded by federal-aid, very little from VDOT. The Beltway on the other hand was mainly the state funding for widening projects.

All those projects were funded 90% federal and 10% state.  The original Interstate construction as well as the widening projects that happened in the 1970s and 1980s.

[sprjus4]

The HOT lanes in peak periods often carry near the full capacity of lanes, which could approach 4,000 VPH for two lanes.  The second half of Sunday normally is oriented toward D.C. with NB HOT.  The usual reason why "traffic is heavy in one direction but the lanes are flowing another" is usually not true, it is the visual effect of 5 or more lanes in one direction simply greatly thinning out the traffic on each lane as compared to it all being in 3 lanes.

Judging by the fact that every week on Sunday afternoon there's always congestion heading southbound, and none going northbound proves that otherwise. The visual effect is sitting in traffic doing 20 MPH watching the people in the HO/T lanes flying by at 65 MPH.

In 325 miles if that happens 10 times those users would disagree.  That is why I-81 has its reputation.  The other states between TN and PA inclusive have the same problem.

Again, if it was a pressing issue, then barrels would be up, traffic would be shifted, and construction would be happening right now. That's what's happening right now on I-95, and will continue to, and nothing on I-81. The issue with I-81 is it's trying to be widened in one project. It needs to be done in phases, and I can say the same thing about I-95.

All those projects were funded 90% federal and 10% state.  The original Interstate construction as well as the widening projects that happened in the 1970s and 1980s.

Then likely it was a safety factor. A two-lane road is way more dangerous and has low capacity compared to an at least 4-lane divided highway.

Look I'm just gonna say it. One of these interstates needs tolling, whether it be I-95 or I-81. There's not enough money to support all of the widenings in the next 10-15 years on either route. That tolling also needs to come from thru-traffic & out-of-state rather than local & in-state. It's been proposed on both interstates, but has gone nowhere.

[Beltway]

The HOT lanes in peak periods often carry near the full capacity of lanes, which could approach 4,000 VPH for two lanes.  The second half of Sunday normally is oriented toward D.C. with NB HOT.  The usual reason why "traffic is heavy in one direction but the lanes are flowing another" is usually not true, it is the visual effect of 5 or more lanes in one direction simply greatly thinning out the traffic on each lane as compared to it all being in 3 lanes.

Judging by the fact that every week on Sunday afternoon there's always congestion heading southbound, and none going northbound proves that otherwise.

That is because of having 3 lanes SB and 5 lanes NB in PW county, in Fairfax County 4 lanes SB and 7 lanes NB.  Eh?

Like I said the normal directional split on the second half of Sunday normally is oriented NB (not SB as on a weekday).

[sprjus4]

The HOT lanes in peak periods often carry near the full capacity of lanes, which could approach 4,000 VPH for two lanes.  The second half of Sunday normally is oriented toward D.C. with NB HOT.  The usual reason why "traffic is heavy in one direction but the lanes are flowing another" is usually not true, it is the visual effect of 5 or more lanes in one direction simply greatly thinning out the traffic on each lane as compared to it all being in 3 lanes.

Judging by the fact that every week on Sunday afternoon there's always congestion heading southbound, and none going northbound proves that otherwise.

That is because of having 3 lanes SB and 5 lanes NB in PW county, in Fairfax County 4 lanes SB and 7 lanes NB.  Eh?

Like I said the normal directional split on the second half of Sunday normally is oriented NB (not SB as on a weekday).

Could be, but two things - there's a lot of times SB congestion in Fredericksburg on a Sunday, and none NB (and there's no express lanes there (yet)), and there's a horrible merge VDOT put in a few years back by the Occoquan River that is the cause of a lot of congestion. NB doesn't have that issue, and instead gains more lanes. I'd be willing to bet if they switched it to see how it works, it would relieve congestion more than create it.

[vdeane]

The only time I've ever managed to drive I-95 between DC and Richmond and not hit 10+ miles of stop and go around Fredericksburg (no HOT lanes there!) was at 8 AM on a holiday.  I can't even conceive of how one would managed to go double digits, much less the speed limit, there at a civilized time.  The only section of roadway in the entire country I can think of that's worse is the Cross-Bronx, which has several parallel freeways nearby.

I detest the idea of "soak the strangers" toll arrangements.  A toll should apply to all roadway users or not exist at all.  Period.

[sprjus4]

I detest the idea of "soak the strangers" toll arrangements.  A toll should apply to all roadway users or not exist at all.  Period.

Another concept for tolling that was considered a few years back is to stick the toll north of Emporia, where most of the traffic is thru-traffic. The point of "tolling out-of-state" is because many people commute weekly that are living in state on that stretch of I-95, whereas a lot of "thru-traffic" isn't coming back weekly. It puts less of a burden on locals or weekly commuters, but I suppose it wouldn't be fair overall. So the next best bet is to place the toll at a strategic location that mainly gets out-of-state and thru traffic, like said, down near Emporia or the NC state line, but not restricting it to out-of-state.

The only time I've ever managed to drive I-95 between DC and Richmond and not hit 10+ miles of stop and go around Fredericksburg (no HOT lanes there!) was at 8 AM on a holiday.  I can't even conceive of how one would managed to go double digits, much less the speed limit, there at a civilized time.  The only section of roadway in the entire country I can think of that's worse is the Cross-Bronx, which has several parallel freeways nearby.

That's one thing I-95 lacks - good alternative routes. If a D.C. toll-road bypass existed to the east, that would relieve a lot of congestion problems and provide different routes. North of D.C, I-95 has many freeway alternatives, is 8-lanes, and usually traffic is more tolerable up that way.

And another good time to not hit traffic is at night, you'll never see any slow downs, yet you'll still see some people in the HO/T lanes anyways paying their $5. Never makes sense to me.

[Beltway]

The only time I've ever managed to drive I-95 between DC and Richmond and not hit 10+ miles of stop and go around Fredericksburg (no HOT lanes there!) was at 8 AM on a holiday. 

You must be vexed with evil spirits or something if that has been your experience.  I've done it at least 100 times without hitting a significant slowdown there, and usually not at a typical low volume time.  Fredericksburg is not usually a problem, the more common place is around Woodbridge.

[sprjus4]

The only time I've ever managed to drive I-95 between DC and Richmond and not hit 10+ miles of stop and go around Fredericksburg (no HOT lanes there!) was at 8 AM on a holiday. 

You must be vexed with evil spirits or something if that has been your experience.  I've done it at least 100 times without hitting a significant slowdown there, and usually not at a typical low volume time.  Fredericksburg is not usually a problem, the more common place is around Woodbridge.

Fredericksburg is one of the worst spots actually, between US 17 and VA 3 is jam daily with local and thru traffic trying to mix just to get one exit down. To say it's not a problem is not accurate. That's why VDOT is doing the project happening now, the C/D lanes, which when complete, will make this area, hopefully, not a problem. But now, it is definitely a huge traffic hotspot.

And agreed, the Woodbridge area is a major issue due to poor interchange design and the 4th lane dropping off, and between there and Fredericksburg is also too congested, frequent stop-and-go daily, but no real interchange issues, there, additional capacity is what is needed.

You need to take make a southbound trip on I-95 on a Friday afternoon between 2 - 6 PM in the general purpose lanes, and see all the issues. You've been lucky every time you've used that stretch of I-95, good timing, etc.

[webny99]

The only time I've ever managed to drive I-95 between DC and Richmond and not hit 10+ miles of stop and go around Fredericksburg (no HOT lanes there!) was at 8 AM on a holiday.  I can't even conceive of how one would managed to go double digits, much less the speed limit, there at a civilized time.  The only section of roadway in the entire country I can think of that's worse is the Cross-Bronx, which has several parallel freeways nearby.

Yes, given unlimited funds I would be a major advocate of doing to that stretch of I-95 what New Jersey did to the northern half of the Turnpike: four roadways of three lanes each, with the inner carriageways being car traffic only. I'm having trouble finding traffic counts for the NJ Turnpike, but I'd imagine they're very comparable to DC to Richmond. Northern Virginia seems to be one of the fastest growing regions of the country, so if not entirely warranted at present, it certainly would be within the next decade or two.

On the other hand, I'd like to see improvements to I-81 as well. It is heavily used by long distance traffic and especially trucks, so it is no fun on weekends or during peak travel periods, either. I would argue that going from four lanes to six on heavily used rural corridors is the more important of the two priorities. All it takes is one truck passing another, and a rolling roadblock forms. At least I-95 is already wide enough to enable passing of trucks. Even if congestion occurs anyways, at least the most basic need has been permanently addressed. Certainly, some interchange improvements and auxiliary lanes are in order on I-95, but as far as a major large-scale widening, I would put the funds towards I-81 while focusing on spot improvements on the former corridor.

[Beltway]

Yes, given unlimited funds I would be a major advocate of doing to that stretch of I-95 what New Jersey did to the northern half of the Turnpike: four roadways of three lanes each, with the inner carriageways being car traffic only.

I've thought of that, but I don't think that even that would resolve things, after all in Fairfax County it already has 7 lanes in the direction of peak traffic.  The region needs a freeway true outer bypass such as the Western Transportation Corridor that was seriously studied 15 to 20 years ago by VDOT, but which MDOT would never get onboard with which obviously would prevent Washington from having an outer bypass. 

The I-95 Centerport Parkway interchange Exit 143 that was added about 15 years ago would have been the I-95 southern interchange of the Western Transportation Corridor.  It could be toll financed if needed like the Houston outer beltway.

[1995hoo]

Regarding the idea of tolling I-95, Virginia had a proposal to do just that during the 2011 time frame. I don't remember when they dropped the idea, but I know it was under consideration in 2011 because a friend of mine was running for state senate that year and I have a copy of a briefing paper I put together for him explaining the differences between the HO/T lane projects and the I-95 toll proposal. The last proposal I had seen involved two toll-collection points, one near the North Carolina state line and the other a short distance south of Massaponax (Exit 126), the latter location having something to do the original plan to extend the HO/T system south to the Massaponax area. Other than the HO/T lanes, there was to be no tolling of I-95 in Northern Virginia.

I don't believe they ever addressed the question of how they'd try to avoid shunpiking. When North Carolina was proposing to toll their portion of I-95, they had talked about tolling the next interchange or two to either side of the toll-collection points in order to disincentivize the sort of thing you see on the Delaware Turnpike. I remember thinking it would make sense to stick the southern toll-collection point somewhere in the Emporia area such that shunpiking would force you to crawl along roads with 25-mph speed limits, a bunch of traffic lights, and cops eager to write speeding tickets.

The biggest failure with Virginia's proposal to toll I-95, IMO, is that the politicians did an utterly crappy job of trying to explain it to the public (well, actually, they didn't really explain it well at all). They did nothing to combat the public image of "toll roads" bringing to mind long lines at toll plazas that so many of us recall from the 1970s and 1980s on trips to New York. They did nothing to explain how the toll revenue would have to be used solely for I-95 improvements and how it would not replace the percentage of state gas tax revenues used for that road. They did nothing to respond to the common complaint of "I pay a gas tax, so why should I have to pay a toll for a road my gas tax paid to build?" They did nothing to explain how Virginia's long-standing transportation-funding apportionment formula makes it impossible simply to raise the gas tax and then devote the increased revenue to one area of particular need.

....

The I-95 Centerport Parkway interchange Exit 143 that was added about 15 years ago would have been the I-95 southern interchange of the Western Transportation Corridor.  It could be toll financed if needed like the Houston outer beltway.

FWIW, Centreport Parkway is Exit 136, not Exit 143. Exit 143 is the Aquia interchange, Route 610 (Garrisonville Road).

[jakeroot]

I-5 from Mount Vernon, WA to the Canadian border. It would be rather difficult, since the current freeway (built as part of the pre-Interstate US 99 upgrades) weaves its way tightly around downtown Mount Vernon and has a major bridge over the Skagit River (the one that partially collapsed in 2013) that would need to be replaced. Then there's more issues once you reach the Samish Mountains and start the descent into Bellingham.

It was definitely a mistake not to build I-5 to the west of Mount Vernon (with extra bridges over the river) and thus only really hitting farmland.

Assuming in the next 70 years that A) cars still operate largely the way they do now, and B) we have an HSR connection to Vancouver (something I'd consider to be marginally more important), I could see I-5 being relocated west of Mt Vernon/Burlington. If not for removing a freeway that runs directly through the cities, to improve safety and maintain the rural limit that exists on either side of the cities. WSDOT's Collision GeoPortal shows quite a large uptick in injury or possible injury crashes through the towns, and a huge uptick in non-injury crashes. Of course, I'm not sure if the businesses that rely on the freeway would be as keen.

The bigger issue beyond Mt Vernon and Burlington is Bellingham itself. There seems to be sufficient ROW for a third (or even fourth) lane through the Samish range (tight as the curves may be), but the urban ROW through Bellingham is constrictive as hell, especially between Hwy 542 and Iowa St. I don't really know what to do through there. Part of me wants to see I-5 sunk below the city (or at least through that stretch) in a six-lane tunnel, but my other part suspects that geology (and geography) may not be as forgiving.

ALL of I-5 from Exit 188 in Oregon to the Canadian Border.

Ignoring I-5 north of Mt Vernon (as I just finished discussing it), I have faith that WSDOT will eventually six-lane the entirety of I-5 between Centralia and the Toutle River rest area (plans for as much are clear when looking at new bridges over the freeway), but my outlook for the Oregon section is less ambitious. Do you know of any ODOT plans for I-5 widening (even long term)?

[sprjus4]

I've thought of that, but I don't think that even that would resolve things, after all in Fairfax County it already has 7 lanes in the direction of peak traffic. 

If it was done properly it could work - thru traffic restricted to the middle lanes, no merging conflicts to deal with. Local traffic in their own lanes, HO/T lanes running the middle.

The region needs a freeway true outer bypass such as the Western Transportation Corridor that was seriously studied 15 to 20 years ago by VDOT, but which MDOT would never get onboard with which obviously would prevent Washington from having an outer bypass. 

The I-95 Centerport Parkway interchange Exit 143 that was added about 15 years ago would have been the I-95 southern interchange of the Western Transportation Corridor.  It could be toll financed if needed like the Houston outer beltway.

It would definitely need to be toll financed, it would cost nowadays at minimum $5 billion, maybe closer to 10. Also, I believe an eastern route would better, parallel to U.S. 301 and VA 207. I imagine such road would be 6-8 lanes wide, start near Ruther Glen with a high-capacity interchange at I-95, and begin its journey northward following south of VA 207. The first interchange would be crossing US-301 south of Bowling Green. At the Potomac River, it would have an 8-lane high level fixed span bridge and continue following east of US 301 into Maryland. Limited interchanges, only at major roads that need access. It would finally cross the US-50 freeway with a major interchange with flyover ramps heading to and from Annapolis, allowing traffic to use that route to avoid Baltimore as well. The bypass would finally flow into I-97 going towards Baltimore, and terminate. The speed limit along the entire route would likely be 70 MPH, and it would be fully rural. I'll stop here though, I'm getting too much into fictional terrority, though I believe such idea needs to be brought to the drawing table.

[Hurricane Rex]

ALL of I-5 from Exit 188 in Oregon to the Canadian Border.

Ignoring I-5 north of Mt Vernon (as I just finished discussing it), I have faith that WSDOT will eventually six-lane the entirety of I-5 between Centralia and the Toutle River rest area (plans for as much are clear when looking at new bridges over the freeway), but my outlook for the Oregon section is less ambitious. Do you know of any ODOT plans for I-5 widening (even long term)?

In the private draft of the transportation package back from 2017, there was funding dedicated towards widening mp 188-251, but that got scrapped so counties and cities get more money. Currently their are in draft stages in extending 3rd travel lane from mp 251 south to 249, and an auxillary lane NB in Albany. Nothing else is planned or in ODOT's long term outlook (ironically, 4 landing US 97 is in their long term outlook though).

LG-TP260

[jakeroot]

ALL of I-5 from Exit 188 in Oregon to the Canadian Border.

Ignoring I-5 north of Mt Vernon (as I just finished discussing it), I have faith that WSDOT will eventually six-lane the entirety of I-5 between Centralia and the Toutle River rest area (plans for as much are clear when looking at new bridges over the freeway), but my outlook for the Oregon section is less ambitious. Do you know of any ODOT plans for I-5 widening (even long term)?

In the private draft of the transportation package back from 2017, there was funding dedicated towards widening mp 188-251, but that got scrapped so counties and cities get more money. Currently their are in draft stages in extending 3rd travel lane from mp 251 south to 249, and an auxillary lane NB in Albany. Nothing else is planned or in ODOT's long term outlook (ironically, 4 landing US 97 is in their long term outlook though).

I see. At least it's in their sight lines. I'm guessing the widening would have been done over a couple decades? 63 miles of widening would be awfully expensive to perform over several years, especially through Eugene. Unless the plan was to simply six-lane the sections that currently did not have six lanes?

[vdeane]

The only time I've ever managed to drive I-95 between DC and Richmond and not hit 10+ miles of stop and go around Fredericksburg (no HOT lanes there!) was at 8 AM on a holiday. 

You must be vexed with evil spirits or something if that has been your experience.  I've done it at least 100 times without hitting a significant slowdown there, and usually not at a typical low volume time.  Fredericksburg is not usually a problem, the more common place is around Woodbridge.

I've been on I-95 between DC and Richond three times:
-8 AM northbound on Columbus Day returning from the Birmingham meet; this time went smoothly, and it took about an hour
-1 PM northbound on a Sunday returning from the Beckly, WV meet; significant stop and go traffic around Fredericksburg, the trip took 2 hours
-5 PM southbound on a Friday heading down to my cousin's wedding in Jacksonville, FL (in my defense, I had intended to hit this 2-3 hours sooner, but rain delays in the Baltimore/DC area, combined with leaving my apartment half an hour later than planned, caused my arrival at the Springfield interchange to be delayed significantly); significant stop and go traffic most of the length of the corridor from DC all the way through Fredericksburg (a traumatic experience - this particular day of my Florida trip is easily my worst roadtrip ever, by a very wide margin, and I was emotionally on a very short fuse the rest of the night), except for ironically the middle transition from the HOT lanes, where I stupidly left them for the general purpose lanes thinking I had already passed the congestion (not realizing that congestion is not all clumped in one spot on this corridor, and that the high toll wasn't just because of the legendary merge at the end); the trip took 2.5 hours, and in order to not miss the series finale of Once Upon a Time, I had to skip dinner; I also had to forgo my planned clinch of I-295, which greatly annoys me to this day, especially since I won't have future opportunities to clinch it that aren't either annoying or impractical, as I have no plans to drive I-95 in the Carolinas ever again; I-64 east of Richmond is my only remotely reasonable opportunity (short of a Richmond meet), but this would require 30 miles of backtracking to get the southern end.

The only time I've ever managed to drive I-95 between DC and Richmond and not hit 10+ miles of stop and go around Fredericksburg (no HOT lanes there!) was at 8 AM on a holiday.  I can't even conceive of how one would managed to go double digits, much less the speed limit, there at a civilized time.  The only section of roadway in the entire country I can think of that's worse is the Cross-Bronx, which has several parallel freeways nearby.

Yes, given unlimited funds I would be a major advocate of doing to that stretch of I-95 what New Jersey did to the northern half of the Turnpike: four roadways of three lanes each, with the inner carriageways being car traffic only. I'm having trouble finding traffic counts for the NJ Turnpike, but I'd imagine they're very comparable to DC to Richmond. Northern Virginia seems to be one of the fastest growing regions of the country, so if not entirely warranted at present, it certainly would be within the next decade or two.

On the other hand, I'd like to see improvements to I-81 as well. It is heavily used by long distance traffic and especially trucks, so it is no fun on weekends or during peak travel periods, either. I would argue that going from four lanes to six on heavily used rural corridors is the more important of the two priorities. All it takes is one truck passing another, and a rolling roadblock forms. At least I-95 is already wide enough to enable passing of trucks. Even if congestion occurs anyways, at least the most basic need has been permanently addressed. Certainly, some interchange improvements and auxiliary lanes are in order on I-95, but as far as a major large-scale widening, I would put the funds towards I-81 while focusing on spot improvements on the former corridor.

Since I mentioned my experiences on I-95 earlier, below I'll detail my experiences with I-81 in VA (ironically, they're the same trips):
-Southbound full corridor, Thursday at 4:30 and Friday morning on the way to the Birmingham meet; no significant delays, despite major rain Friday; it was about an hour from the WV line to my hotel in Harrisonburg; measuring from Harrisonburg to the TN line is harder, but according to my photo timestamps, I left the hotel at 8 and got to I-381 around 11:45 - note that I also clinched I-581 on the way
-Northbound on the I-64 overlap on a Sunday returning from the Beckley, WV meet; traffic was free-flow and according to photo timestamps the journey took about 25 minutes

As you can see, the I-81 experiences don't stand out in my brain nearly as much.  I prefer to be moving (even if behind a truck) over stop and go.  In fact, that Florida trip left an impression on me, and I changed how I estimate trip times because of it (I also realized that I need to allocate more time to packing).

[jakeroot]

the trip took 2.5 hours, and in order to not miss the series finale of Once Upon a Time, I had to skip dinner;

You know you can DVR shows, right? I'm not sure I've ever watched anything live, apart from the occasional HBO program where I don't have to watch commercials.



For the record, every time I've gone south from DC towards Richmond on 95, I've also hit traffic right around the point where the express lanes end, and then off and on for quite a few miles. My last trip, which was to South Boston, VA, I stayed on 95 to 85, then to exit 12, and experienced a significant amount of traffic off and on starting at the end of the express lanes, lasting for what felt like hundreds of miles. This was the 29th of December of last month. I was so annoyed by the traffic that I stayed off 95 (heading back to DC) until Fredericksburg, using back roads from South Boston to there instead. Was a bit more relaxing!

[roadman65]

How about I-95 in SC between the Georgia Line and Exit 33. Traffic has clogged that stretch since the 1980's and the only widening in SC along I-95 that SCDOT has done was to six lane the part near Florence.

I-30 in Texas from the Metroplex to Texarkana needs to be widened badly as four lanes is not enough to handle the load that freeway has.