Erroneous road signs

[jakeroot]

Oops.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7723075,-74.0357001,3a,15y,31.85h,87.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sixysSoOJJqr_5yRrG-QfcQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Breaching off into a slight tangent here: what exactly are you applauding?

[SidS1045]

Pretty sure this is an error (Lynnwood, WA). The 405 ends here, for what it's worth, but there's a "BEGIN" plaque anyways, despite the "END" plaque just above the shield. WA-525 begins at this point. If the "BEGIN" plaque was black on white, I could make the case that the 525 shield just fell off, but it's blue.

I strongly suspect that even though the BEGIN legend is white-on-blue, the WA-525 shield did fall off.  If you look very closely at the sign support you can see the two mounting points for the shield, one right below BEGIN and the other one almost lost in the buildings in the background.

I've seen enough mix-and-matches with BEGIN, END, TO and JCT auxiliaries to know that their color isn't always indicative of what is or should be mounted below them, MUTCD specs notwithstanding.

[noelbotevera]

Oops.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7723075,-74.0357001,3a,15y,31.85h,87.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sixysSoOJJqr_5yRrG-QfcQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Breaching off into a slight tangent here: what exactly are you applauding?

The I-495 shield references the cancelled routing of I-495 through New Jersey. New signs stil seem to reference that I-495 still enters New Jersey.

[Alex]

I strongly suspect that even though the BEGIN legend is white-on-blue, the WA-525 shield did fall off.  If you look very closely at the sign support you can see the two mounting points for the shield, one right below BEGIN and the other one almost lost in the buildings in the background.

I've seen enough mix-and-matches with BEGIN, END, TO and JCT auxiliaries to know that their color isn't always indicative of what is or should be mounted below them, MUTCD specs notwithstanding.

Definitely was a Washington 525 shield, as the old assembly included it as well:

[Tom958]

Last summer I posted here about two new APL signs on I-285. I emailed Georgia DOT and they replied that they'd have their contractor fix the problems. I don't go that way often anymore, but today my wife and I took a Sunday drive, and... yep, they fixed it alright. 

[jakeroot]

Last summer I posted here about two new APL signs on I-285. I emailed Georgia DOT and they replied that they'd have their contractor fix the problems. I don't go that way often anymore, but today my wife and I took a Sunday drive, and... yep, they fixed it alright. 

They fixed one thing and broke another. Why the fuck did they add an up arrow for the 85?

[Rothman]

My goodness...   

[J N Winkler]

Last summer I posted here about two new APL signs on I-285. I emailed Georgia DOT and they replied that they'd have their contractor fix the problems. I don't go that way often anymore, but today my wife and I took a Sunday drive, and... yep, they fixed it alright. 

The sign was originally fabricated exactly as shown in the construction plans (Georgia DOT PI number M004201, sheet 89).  This is actually a fine demonstration of what a bed of Procrustes the OAPL diagrammatic concept can be, since correct display of the lane configuration (three lanes remaining on I-285) would entail fitting a very wide legend ("Chamblee-Tucker Rd" with 20 in caps, broken up across two lines at the hyphen) in a space barely one 12 ft lane wide.  It is simply too large to fit when rendered in Series E Modified--I think it would have to be shrunk down to Series D or even Series C width to fit.

[formulanone]

I certainly hope it's a "greenout in process"...otherwise, what the heck were they thinking?

We're in "Worst of Signs" territory here, as this just adds more potential chaos to the daily roller derby events on I-285.

[Eth]

This is actually a fine demonstration of what a bed of Procrustes the OAPL diagrammatic concept can be, since correct display of the lane configuration (three lanes remaining on I-285) would entail fitting a very wide legend ("Chamblee-Tucker Rd" with 20 in caps, broken up across two lines at the hyphen) in a space barely one 12 ft lane wide.  It is simply too large to fit when rendered in Series E Modified--I think it would have to be shrunk down to Series D or even Series C width to fit.

When Georgia returned to E(M), it really should have been accompanied by a reduction in the text size. Using 15" 16" destination text like everyone else would avoid this problem:

[Zeffy]

Actually, I think the standard is 16 inch uppercase and 12 inch lowercase. I mean it's close enough.

[Eth]

You're right, it is 16. Updated accordingly.

[Tom958]

The sign was originally fabricated exactly as shown in the construction plans (Georgia DOT PI number M004201, sheet 89).

This is actually a fine demonstration of what a bed of Procrustes the OAPL diagrammatic concept can be, since correct display of the lane configuration (three lanes remaining on I-285) would entail fitting a very wide legend ("Chamblee-Tucker Rd" with 20 in caps, broken up across two lines at the hyphen) in a space barely one 12 ft lane wide.  It is simply too large to fit when rendered in Series E Modified--I think it would have to be shrunk down to Series D or even Series C width to fit.

Or, redo the MUTCD. Really, if it was "Chamblee Road," we'd have the same problem. After some discussion, IMO riiga got it very close to right. Doing away with arrows over lanes that don't need them would be better and cheaper:

[jeffandnicole]

The sign was originally fabricated exactly as shown in the construction plans (Georgia DOT PI number M004201, sheet 89).

This is actually a fine demonstration of what a bed of Procrustes the OAPL diagrammatic concept can be, since correct display of the lane configuration (three lanes remaining on I-285) would entail fitting a very wide legend ("Chamblee-Tucker Rd" with 20 in caps, broken up across two lines at the hyphen) in a space barely one 12 ft lane wide.  It is simply too large to fit when rendered in Series E Modified--I think it would have to be shrunk down to Series D or even Series C width to fit.

Or, redo the MUTCD. Really, if it was "Chamblee Road," we'd have the same problem. After some discussion, IMO riiga got it very close to right. Doing away with arrows over lanes that don't need them would be better and cheaper:

I don't think you need to redo the MUTCD in what is really a rare issue, and a state-created issue at that.  If they used a smaller, tighter font, the sign would be fine.    As in these examples, the 'West' is much too tight next to Chattanooga.  And the road name is unusually long.

Signage in general is fairly cheap.  A large APL sign probably runs about $20,000 - $25,000.  To put it in perspective, that would pay to repave about 90 feet of highway.

[Tom958]

I don't think you need to redo the MUTCD in what is really a rare issue, and a state-created issue at that.  If they used a smaller, tighter font, the sign would be fine.    As in these examples, the 'West' is much too tight next to Chattanooga.  And the road name is unusually long.

Signage in general is fairly cheap.  A large APL sign probably runs about $20,000 - $25,000.  To put it in perspective, that would pay to repave about 90 feet of highway.

Well, this particular scheme could use a bit more white space, which, of course, would be green. The real fatal flaw, which I was quite stupid not to notice before posting, is that the main purpose of APL's is to enable clear delineation of an option lane that serves both the mainline and an exit. This lane configuration doesn't do that, and a semi-APL like this needs to have something for the straight ahead arrow to point to.

However...

Georgia is infamous for installing APL's where there is no option lane. So it'd work here-- meaning in this state. 

[WillWeaverRVA]

VA 18 gets an upgrade in Covington...

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7779087,-79.9851987,3a,75y,326.71h,82.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSo71JfIUMsGCwb5vRLbkCQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Mapmikey]

VA 18 gets an upgrade in Covington...

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7779087,-79.9851987,3a,75y,326.71h,82.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSo71JfIUMsGCwb5vRLbkCQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

There's a US 18 shield in the other direction as well.  There have been US 18 shields at this intersection back to at least the mid-90s.

The updated GMSV shows there are still plenty of cutouts in Covington, so that is exciting...

Mike

[TravelingBethelite]

NY 17 got a US upgrade (on I-84 west):

[hbelkins]

VA 18 gets an upgrade in Covington...

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7779087,-79.9851987,3a,75y,326.71h,82.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSo71JfIUMsGCwb5vRLbkCQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

There's a US 18 shield in the other direction as well.  There have been US 18 shields at this intersection back to at least the mid-90s.

The updated GMSV shows there are still plenty of cutouts in Covington, so that is exciting...

Mike

Oh, yes. I've seen those two US 18 signs in Covington, as well as this set a little south of town.



And there were also several cutouts along VA 18 approaching Covington back in 2007.

[74/171FAN]

No photos, but I spotted several US 291 (should be PA 291) shields along PA 291 in Chester today.

Yeah these US 291 shields are at the intersection of PA 291 and Highland Ave (as I saw today).  What is even odder to me is the "TRUCK NORTH I-95" that apparently turns onto PA 291 EB here (on the north side of the intersection). 

[PHLBOS]

No photos, but I spotted several US 291 (should be PA 291) shields along PA 291 in Chester today.

Yeah these US 291 shields are at the intersection of PA 291 and Highland Ave (as I saw today).  What is even odder to me is the "TRUCK NORTH I-95" that apparently turns onto PA 291 EB here (on the north side of the intersection). 

Those US 291 shields (and with others along the way) were erected as part of the PA 291 widening project roughly a decade ago.  I believe that some of them were since replaced with proper PA 291 shields (obviously not those two at Highland Ave.). 

I scanned through that GSV and did not see any TRUCK NORTH 95 signage.  Just the TO 95 trailblazers directing 291 traffic onto Highland Ave.  These signs likely predated the existence of the ramp linking 291 to US 322 Westbound (to I-95) from the Commodore Barry Bridge.  The latter's a more logical & convenient access to I-95.

[freebrickproductions]

No photos, but I spotted several US 291 (should be PA 291) shields along PA 291 in Chester today.

Yeah these US 291 shields are at the intersection of PA 291 and Highland Ave (as I saw today).  What is even odder to me is the "TRUCK NORTH I-95" that apparently turns onto PA 291 EB here (on the north side of the intersection). 

Those US 291 shields (and with others along the way) were erected as part of the PA 291 widening project roughly a decade ago.  I believe that some of them were since replaced with proper PA 291 shields (obviously not those two at Highland Ave.). 

I scanned through that GSV and did not see any TRUCK NORTH 95 signage.  Just the TO 95 trailblazers directing 291 traffic onto Highland Ave.  These signs likely predated the existence of the ramp linking 291 to US 322 Westbound (to I-95) from the Commodore Barry Bridge.  The latter's a more logical & convenient access to I-95.

Some of the shields appear to have the state name at that intersection!
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8306837,-75.3901833,3a,19y,121.89h,91.99t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s-38ZIoTtwQS72cIDhNn0XQ!2e0!5m1!1e1

I think this is what they were talking about in the post, though:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8310462,-75.3903246,3a,36.8y,182.33h,87.64t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1suYiJLCeM2oxotUplG6ic8g!2e0!5m1!1e1

[PHLBOS]

Some of the shields appear to have the state name at that intersection!
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8306837,-75.3901833,3a,19y,121.89h,91.99t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s-38ZIoTtwQS72cIDhNn0XQ!2e0!5m1!1e1

Every now and then, a few state-named Interstate shields do get erected in PA.  Not erroneous; just interesting and (dare I say it) retro.

I think this is what they were talking about in the post, though:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8310462,-75.3903246,3a,36.8y,182.33h,87.64t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1suYiJLCeM2oxotUplG6ic8g!2e0!5m1!1e1

Judging by the size & color of the shield (a darker blue); I have to wonder if such was installed after the new ramp to US 322 West was built.

[yakra]

Last summer I posted here about two new APL signs on I-285. I emailed Georgia DOT and they replied that they'd have their contractor fix the problems. I don't go that way often anymore, but today my wife and I took a Sunday drive, and... yep, they fixed it alright. 

Obviously, there are bike lanes on the Interstate. Because RIGHT HOOK.

[SignGeek101]

Other than the very bad spacing on this sign, it also has multiple errors.

https://goo.gl/maps/kCn7p9nUq292

*It should be '2A' not '2'.
*It's 'De Winton', not 'Dewinton'.
*Contrary to the sign, the mentioned road doesn't even go close to De Winton. Motorists should take the next exit for that.

It should also have the 552 shield, but not having it isn't really an error.