CA 99 - The Final Countdown

[kkt]

CA 15, 210 and 905 should have become Interstates by now. They should have become Interstates when they were completed. Did they do this because they favor state routes to Interstates?

Caltrans doesn't care about interstate status, now that it doesn't come with any money.  A bunch of work putting together the application, and if it's granted all that you get is the chance to spend the state's own money changing signs.  They have a lot of actual work to do, expansions, repairs, seismic retrofits, they probably feel paper pushing isn't worth the trouble.  They sign interstates if they're original, or if interstate money paid for them or a significant retrofit.

[AMLNet49]

CA 15, 210 and 905 should have become Interstates by now. They should have become Interstates when they were completed. Did they do this because they favor state routes to Interstates?

They probably just don't care. All the signs would need replacing (except the guide signs on the 5 fwy), with minimal benefit because there is no route duplication anyway.

[myosh_tino]

CA 15, 210 and 905 should have become Interstates by now. They should have become Interstates when they were completed. Did they do this because they favor state routes to Interstates?

They probably just don't care. All the signs would need replacing (except the guide signs on the 5 fwy), with minimal benefit because there is no route duplication anyway.

IIRC, CA-15 won't be signed as I-15 until the 15/94 interchange is reconfigured to eliminate the left-exits.

[The Ghostbuster]

Why do I have the feeling that even after that interchange is reconstructed, the CA-15 designation will remain?

[kkt]

Why do I have the feeling that even after that interchange is reconstructed, the CA-15 designation will remain?

Um... perhaps because you read my post above?   

[NE2]

Ignore Ghostie's contentless posts.

[Alex]

CA 15, 210 and 905 should have become Interstates by now. They should have become Interstates when they were completed. Did they do this because they favor state routes to Interstates?

They probably just don't care. All the signs would need replacing (except the guide signs on the 5 fwy), with minimal benefit because there is no route duplication anyway.

IIRC, CA-15 won't be signed as I-15 until the 15/94 interchange is reconfigured to eliminate the left-exits.

And this was pushed back from a potential start date of 2020 to 2025. It is included in the CA 94 Express Lanes project.

[andy3175]

CA 15, 210 and 905 should have become Interstates by now. They should have become Interstates when they were completed. Did they do this because they favor state routes to Interstates?

They probably just don't care. All the signs would need replacing (except the guide signs on the 5 fwy), with minimal benefit because there is no route duplication anyway.

IIRC, CA-15 won't be signed as I-15 until the 15/94 interchange is reconfigured to eliminate the left-exits.

And this was pushed back from a potential start date of 2020 to 2025. It is included in the CA 94 Express Lanes project.

CA 15 is Interstate-standard between I-8 and I-805. At least that portion should be eligible for Interstate status, even if the SR 94 interchange construction project has not yet occurred. A project is underway on SR 15 between I-8 and I-805 to add HOV lanes/bus rapid transit, so there is some construction activity currently. Keep in mind that the left exits are from SR 94, not SR 15. Should the SR 94 express lanes be built, I think the interchange spacing along SR 15 around SR 94, Market St, and Ocean View Blvd will change to some extent, with some current exits being reconfigured to give proper spacing between exits and entrances to the freeway.

[The Ghostbuster]

Let's get back to discussing CA 99, and give the comments on San Diego's Freeways its own thread.

[andy3175]

Let's get back to discussing CA 99, and give the comments on San Diego's Freeways its own thread.

Eh? The flow of this thread led to a discussion of converting state routes to Interstate, and the above discussion is relevant to SR 99 someday becoming an Interstate given Caltrans practice with other state route freeways that many have assumed would become Interstate based on their state route numbers. In the Forum, I think you'd find many threads that start with replies that appear directly related to the thread topic but eventually some replies trail down into sub-topics that may appear tangentially related to the thread topic but are still relevant when taken in context of the overall conversation. I don't think I understand your comment.

[Henry]

Eh? The flow of this thread led to a discussion of converting state routes to Interstate, and the above discussion is relevant to SR 99 someday becoming an Interstate given Caltrans practice with other state route freeways that many have assumed would become Interstate based on their state route numbers

Except I-99 already exists, and the only logical choices are I-7 and I-9. I can see why I-9 would be the preferred choice, because it would keep part of the existing designation, just one less nine.

[myosh_tino]

Except I-99 already exists, and the only logical choices are I-7 and I-9. I can see why I-9 would be the preferred choice, because it would keep part of the existing designation, just one less nine.

...and I can see why I-7 is the preferred choice because California does not allow route number duplication.  CA-7 is short route that doesn't go through any populated areas.  CA-9 is one of two routes that connect Santa Clara County to Santa Cruz and goes through the communities of Los Gatos, Saratoga, Boulder Creek, Ben Lomond, Felton and Santa Cruz.  Renumbering CA-9 would impact far more people than renumbering CA-7.

[TheStranger]

Except I-99 already exists, and the only logical choices are I-7 and I-9. I can see why I-9 would be the preferred choice, because it would keep part of the existing designation, just one less nine.

...and I can see why I-7 is the preferred choice because California does not allow route number duplication.  CA-7 is short route that doesn't go through any populated areas.  CA-9 is one of two routes that connect Santa Clara County to Santa Cruz and goes through the communities of Los Gatos, Saratoga, Boulder Creek, Ben Lomond, Felton and Santa Cruz.  Renumbering CA-9 would impact far more people than renumbering CA-7.

And routes dating to the 1934 initial assignment of numbers - which Route 9 is - generally have been retained if they survived the 1964 renumbering (case in point: Route 180).   The current Route 7 only dates back to the 1990s.

[Occidental Tourist]

Renumbering CA-9 would impact far more people than renumbering CA-7.

I don't think this is a criterion that has historically merited consideration.  Renumbering CA-7 and CA-11 impacted literally millions of people, yet it was still done.  Whereas the proposed renumbering of CA-180 impacted very few people, yet it didn't happen based on, to my understanding, the anticipated cost in 1950 dollars of doing so.

I suspect that if - and that's a big if - 99 gets renumbered to an interstate designation, cost will be the only factor in the choice between 7 and 9.

[Desert Man]

Now all of CA 99 is a freeway...I wonder the road will become a full-fledged interstate (I-9?). The cities of Fresno (CA's 4th largest) and Bakersfield (9th largest) has a metropolitan freeway to connect with Sacramento (state capital) and L.A. 60 miles south of the I-5/CA 99 junction. The I-7 designation could go for the northern portion of CA 99 from Sacramento Int'l Airport/Arco Arena to south of Red Bluff, also noting Chico and Redding are the region's largest cities north of the 40th latitude in CA.   

[Occidental Tourist]

Now all of CA 99 is a freeway...I wonder the road will become a full-fledged interstate (I-9?). The cities of Fresno (CA's 4th largest) and Bakersfield (9th largest) has a metropolitan freeway to connect with Sacramento (state capital) and L.A. 60 miles south of the I-5/CA 99 junction. The I-7 designation could go for the northern portion of CA 99 from Sacramento Int'l Airport/Arco Arena to south of Red Bluff, also noting Chico and Redding are the region's largest cities north of the 40th latitude in CA.   

I'm not aware of any plans to further upgrade 99 to full limited access between Red Bluff and Sacramento.  Arguably given the traffic near Yuba City, an upgrade could help, but recent traffic upgrades have focused on increasing capacity on 70.  And even some of those upgrades have been abandoned due to funding and environmental issues.

The bottom line is that there does not seem to be the funding or political will to make any portion of the northern section of 99 interstate standard.

[myosh_tino]

Renumbering CA-9 would impact far more people than renumbering CA-7.

I don't think this is a criterion that has historically merited consideration.  Renumbering CA-7 and CA-11 impacted literally millions of people, yet it was still done.

One difference.  CA-7 and CA-11 were both freeways so the major cost would have been to Caltrans for new signs.  A renumbering of CA-9 would impact businesses and residents living along the highway.  It would probably force local businesses that identify themselves as being on "Highway 9" on advertising, letterheads, etc to incur a cost to get all of those materials changed to reflect a new highway number.  Likewise, residents living along CA-9 would also need to go through the process of having their address changed.  If the costs to these people are "too high", you can bet they will fight any renumbering attempt and will probably get the local state rep involved.

[nexus73]

Now all of CA 99 is a freeway...I wonder the road will become a full-fledged interstate (I-9?). The cities of Fresno (CA's 4th largest) and Bakersfield (9th largest) has a metropolitan freeway to connect with Sacramento (state capital) and L.A. 60 miles south of the I-5/CA 99 junction. The I-7 designation could go for the northern portion of CA 99 from Sacramento Int'l Airport/Arco Arena to south of Red Bluff, also noting Chico and Redding are the region's largest cities north of the 40th latitude in CA.   

I'm not aware of any plans to further upgrade 99 to full limited access between Red Bluff and Sacramento.  Arguably given the traffic near Yuba City, an upgrade could help, but recent traffic upgrades have focused on increasing capacity on 70.  And even some of those upgrades have been abandoned due to funding and environmental issues.

The bottom line is that there does not seem to be the funding or political will to make any portion of the northern section of 99 interstate standard.

The world ends north of I-80 for the most part is how it seems Caltrans sees that section of California.

Rick

[Occidental Tourist]

Renumbering CA-9 would impact far more people than renumbering CA-7.

I don't think this is a criterion that has historically merited consideration.  Renumbering CA-7 and CA-11 impacted literally millions of people, yet it was still done.

One difference.  CA-7 and CA-11 were both freeways so the major cost would have been to Caltrans for new signs.  A renumbering of CA-9 would impact businesses and residents living along the highway.  It would probably force local businesses that identify themselves as being on "Highway 9" on advertising, letterheads, etc to incur a cost to get all of those materials changed to reflect a new highway number.  Likewise, residents living along CA-9 would also need to go through the process of having their address changed.  If the costs to these people are "too high", you can bet they will fight any renumbering attempt and will probably get the local state rep involved.

That's a two-way street.  For every constituent along the highway 9 corridor complaining about changing their stationery, etc., there's some Central Valley constituent pining away for interstate status for 99, i.e., every time there's an article about upgrades to a previously-highway stretch of 99, there's the obligatory quote from the local politician about how the Central Valley is one of the largest population centers without an interstate.

I'd also note that there were likely a lot of businesses along the Harbor and Long Beach Freeway corridors that had to change the printed directions to their businesses on promotional materials after the changeover to interstate status.  Additionally, think about the tens of thousands who suddenly found themselves inconveniently on "Old Highway 395" I'm San Diego and Riverside counties after that roadway was bypassed by a freeway and then changed to Interstate 15.

I don't think local opposition based on inconvenience will even register with caltrans.  I have friends who work for "stakeholders" who've dealt with caltrans over road projects that will negatively impact their businesses.  It's a lot of hand-holding and reassurances, but in the end, unless the stakeholder is willing to file suit, caltrans will do what it wants.

[Max Rockatansky]

Some observations having just driven almost the entirety of the freeway stretch of CA 99...at least from Bakersfield to Sacramento...holy crap it's going to be a long time before an Interstate upgrade happens.  There is a ton of sub-standard right-on/right-off ramps all over the place through the entire stretch.  The should grades in some sections are still extremely poor and there is a lot of bridges that would need to be removed or at minimum raised to meet Interstate standards.  I still stand by with what I have said many times before, Caltrans ought to be looking at a US 99 from Red Bluff to Wheeler Ridge.  Basically the way I see things the freeway is for the most part sufficient as it currently stands and just needs general and gradual improvements....so why waste the money conforming to Interstate Standards?  If anything 99 could take over the CA 70 alignment through Marysville rather than Yuba City.  That way 99 could use the remaining freeway section of 70 north of Marysville and 149 to connect to Red Bluff.  I see it much easier to span that freeway gap north of Marysville rather than trying to build one through Yuba City.  Again at the end of the day a US designation will lessen design needs and still serve an "Interstate" connection with I-5, I-80, US 50 and possibly even I-40 in the future.

[The Ghostbuster]

Well they better get cracking on the upgrading, assuming there's enough funding to do so.

[Max Rockatansky]

Well they better get cracking on the upgrading, assuming there's enough funding to do so.

That's the most tenuous thing about California, always so many projects and so little money for them all.  It's amazing how a state with more residents than the entire country of Canada and one of the highest income taxes in the U.S. can always be out of money.  But with that said all aside there are a lot of California Highways that were over built and have freeway sections completed isolated from other freeways.   U.S. 101 is a good example of what decades of upgrades usually yield with roadways in California.  It's basically no traffic lights from L.A. to San Francisco but there are a ton of at grade intersections still and it is far from what would be Interstate standard in the freeway portions.  It's just interesting that Caltrans is willing to leave a road like 101 as a U.S. Route but it's all in for 99 and 58 getting the Interstate treatment.  Does slapping Interstate shields on a route really yield more value than a state route or U.S. Route?

[Rover_0]

Well they better get cracking on the upgrading, assuming there's enough funding to do so.

That's the most tenuous thing about California, always so many projects and so little money for them all.  It's amazing how a state with more residents than the entire country of Canada and one of the highest income taxes in the U.S. can always be out of money.  But with that said all aside there are a lot of California Highways that were over built and have freeway sections completed isolated from other freeways.   U.S. 101 is a good example of what decades of upgrades usually yield with roadways in California.  It's basically no traffic lights from L.A. to San Francisco but there are a ton of at grade intersections still and it is far from what would be Interstate standard in the freeway portions.  It's just interesting that Caltrans is willing to leave a road like 101 as a U.S. Route but it's all in for 99 and 58 getting the Interstate treatment.  Does slapping Interstate shields on a route really yield more value than a state route or U.S. Route?

Are we sure that Caltrans is gung-ho for maing 99 into I-7 and 58 into I-40?

[myosh_tino]

It's just interesting that Caltrans is willing to leave a road like 101 as a U.S. Route but it's all in for 99 and 58 getting the Interstate treatment.  Does slapping Interstate shields on a route really yield more value than a state route or U.S. Route?

Won't speak about Caltrans' intentions with CA-99 but I don't think Interstate status for CA-58 is a high priority.  The priority is to remove the remaining 2-lane highway portions of CA-58 to improve traffic flow and safety.  You have to remember, the Hinkley bypass is being built as a 4-lane expressway, not a freeway.

[kkt]

I see Caltrans being all for making 58 four lanes.  But the improvements they have planned would not all meet interstate standard, expressway in some places.  I don't think Caltrans cares about interstate status at all.  Just some Fresno boosters.