Frustrated visitors sue National Park Service over cashless policies

[ZLoth]

From SF Gate:

Frustrated visitors sue National Park Service over cashless policies

Three people sued the National Park Service earlier this month for its policy not to accept cash payments at a growing number of locations.

Esther van der Werf of Ojai, California, Toby Stover of High Falls, New York, and Elizabeth Dasburg of Darien, Georgia, filed their lawsuit on March 6 after being prevented from paying in cash at various national parks, monuments and historic sites around the country. Citing a U.S. code that states U.S. currency is legal tender for all public charges, the lawsuit alleges that the park service's cashless policy is in violation of federal law.

The park service instituted cashless policies at approximately 29 locations, according to the lawsuit. The plaintiffs said cash payments were refused at sites in Arizona, New York and Georgia.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

[hotdogPi]

denied entry

Not a debt. Legal tender laws don't apply.

[Max Rockatansky]

I can't even recall the last time I used cash at a NPS managed site.  Probably not helped that California's state park system and stuff like the BLM are still big on pay envelopes.  Usually I carry about $40 in loose change to deal with unexpected pay envelope scenarios.

[cl94]

"Legal tender" laws only cover paying a debt, not paying for goods or a service. The feds can totally enforce cashless policies. Is it inequitable, as poor people sometimes lack banks? Definitely. Do I endorse not having a cash option? Nope, even though I never pay in cash. But I get why places do it and it is totally legal.

I will note that I prefer card only over cash only when it comes to paying park fees. I hate using an iron ranger, especially when the fee is an amount that requires using multiple bills, as I rarely carry stacks of $1s and $5s and there is no way to obtain change. I will also note that many "card only" NPS sites have somewhere third party where you can pay cash for admission. For example, at Death Valley, third-party visitor centers and concessionaires accept cash to pay the entry fee, even if none of the NPS payment machines take cash.

[Brandon]

I hope she wins.  The policy is ridiculous and stupid.

[hotdogPi]

I hope she wins.  The policy is ridiculous and stupid.

Unfortunately, she won't. A debt is defined as receiving the item or service before paying with no way to back out. This is not a debt, as you're not forced to pay anything. They can just turn you away.

Massachusetts has a law unrelated to the legal tender law saying businesses must accept cash, but I don't believe any of these lawsuits are taking place there.

[oscar]

Massachusetts has a law unrelated to the legal tender law saying businesses must accept cash, but I don't believe any of these lawsuits are taking place there.

That law most likely doesn't apply to national parks and other Federal facilities.

[bandit957]

Cash is supposed to be legal tender.

I can show people a dollar bill sometime that says that it's legal tender.

[kwellada]

I hope she wins.  The policy is ridiculous and stupid.

It's not. It costs the NPS more to process and handle cash than what they bring in.

[ZLoth]

From National Park Service (posted April, 2023):

Death Valley National Park to move to cashless fee collection starting June 1, 2023

Last year the park collected $22,000 in cash, which cost over $40,000 to process. Cash handling costs include an armored car contract to transport cash and park rangers' time counting money and processing paperwork.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

If you look at the map of Death Valley, it's pretty remote with only two gas stations (Furnace Creek and Stovepipe Wells) providing fuel at wallet-emptying prices because of the distance the fuel trucks have to travel and how isolated the area is. Same with the armor trucks.

[1995hoo]

Cash is supposed to be legal tender.

I can show people a dollar bill sometime that says that it's legal tender.

"Legal tender for all debts." If there's no debt, someone else is free to impose conditions—for example, a sign on the restaurant door very clearly says "No Cash" and the menu echoes that. You have no debt to them when you see that sign, so you can't demand that they accept your cash, and if you then choose to eat there, you've chosen to accept their payment condition that you not use cash.



With that said, I recall reading recently that DC had passed a new law requiring businesses to accept cash. Yet I know (because I go there regularly) that none of the concession or merchandise stands at Verizon Center accepts it, and the various e-mails I receive from the Capitals prior to games emphasize that the arena is a cashless operation (though most of the bartenders have tip cups if you want to tip in cash). I certainly see the benefit in terms of keeping the lines moving more quickly, but it makes me wonder whether the new DC law has an exemption for sports venues.

[Bruce]

Yet I know (because I go there regularly) that none of the concession or merchandise stands at Verizon Center accepts it, and the various e-mails I receive from the Capitals prior to games emphasize that the arena is a cashless operation (though most of the bartenders have tip cups if you want to tip in cash).

Cashless sports venues here tend to have a little kiosk machine to convert cash to a prepaid debit card, such as these ones at Lumen Field. Are they not available there?

[1995hoo]

Yet I know (because I go there regularly) that none of the concession or merchandise stands at Verizon Center accepts it, and the various e-mails I receive from the Capitals prior to games emphasize that the arena is a cashless operation (though most of the bartenders have tip cups if you want to tip in cash).

Cashless sports venues here tend to have a little kiosk machine to convert cash to a prepaid debit card, such as these ones at Lumen Field. Are they not available there?

I've never paid any attention to find out because I wouldn't need such a card (just like I didn't notice whether there were any such kiosks at Climate Pledge Arena when I went to a game there in November). If I remember, I'll keep my eyes peeled when we go to this Sunday's game.

I did do a Google search for the DC law and it appears, based on the way it's written, that stadium concession stands probably don't fall within the definition of "retailer" used in that particular provision.

[wanderer2575]

Cash is supposed to be legal tender.

I can show people a dollar bill sometime that says that it's legal tender.

"Legal tender" is a form of currency that the law requires to be recognized as acceptable payment for a monetary debt.  The intent is that a debtor paying with legal tender can't be accused of fraud.  It doesn't on its own mean that a debtee is required to accept every kind of legal tender (for example, cash).  As noted, some states have laws requiring that businesses accept cash, but that is a completely separate matter.

[kphoger]

I know I've asked before, but can anyone provide a link to an actual court case in which it was determined that this common "must have already received services" understanding of legal tender has been ruled on?

[kkt]

I don't think they'll win on the "legal tender" argument, but I don't like the cashless policy either.  A significant minority of people in the United States have no credit or debit card.  The Park Service exists to serve all the people, and should not be arbitrarily excluding the poorest.

[NWI_Irish96]

Yet I know (because I go there regularly) that none of the concession or merchandise stands at Verizon Center accepts it, and the various e-mails I receive from the Capitals prior to games emphasize that the arena is a cashless operation (though most of the bartenders have tip cups if you want to tip in cash).

Cashless sports venues here tend to have a little kiosk machine to convert cash to a prepaid debit card, such as these ones at Lumen Field. Are they not available there?

I've never used one of these. My assumption is that there is a fee, so you're only getting 97-98% of your value. People shouldn't be penalized for not possessing their own card.

That said, I don't think the case has legal merits.

[Rothman]

I don't think they'll win on the "legal tender" argument, but I don't like the cashless policy either.  A significant minority of people in the United States have no credit or debit card.  The Park Service exists to serve all the people, and should not be arbitrarily excluding the poorest.

Since most national parks cost a pretty penny to get to and/or stay in, the poorest are already excluded.

[kkt]

I don't think they'll win on the "legal tender" argument, but I don't like the cashless policy either.  A significant minority of people in the United States have no credit or debit card.  The Park Service exists to serve all the people, and should not be arbitrarily excluding the poorest.

Since most national parks cost a pretty penny to get to and/or stay in, the poorest are already excluded.

There are a few free days a year, but want to buy a drink or a snack they can't do that either.

[SSOWorld]

First world problems.

[cl94]

Regarding low-income individuals, how many NPS sites that charge are near significant population centers? Cuyahoga Valley is the only one I can think of right next to a city, and it is free. Much of the cost of visiting a NPS site is getting there and food/lodging because they're so remote. I dislike the equity impact, but it's not like the NPS gets enough funding to support itself without user fees.

Allegedly, opposition to entry fees (equity grounds or otherwise) historically came from higher-income individuals. Low-income survey respondents were apparently more willing to accept fees. http://npshistory.com/publications/visitor-fees/fees5.htm

[Rothman]

I don't think they'll win on the "legal tender" argument, but I don't like the cashless policy either.  A significant minority of people in the United States have no credit or debit card.  The Park Service exists to serve all the people, and should not be arbitrarily excluding the poorest.

Since most national parks cost a pretty penny to get to and/or stay in, the poorest are already excluded.

There are a few free days a year, but want to buy a drink or a snack they can't do that either.

But...you still have to get there...

[Scott5114]

From National Park Service (posted April, 2023):

Death Valley National Park to move to cashless fee collection starting June 1, 2023

Last year the park collected $22,000 in cash, which cost over $40,000 to process. Cash handling costs include an armored car contract to transport cash and park rangers' time counting money and processing paperwork.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

If you look at the map of Death Valley, it's pretty remote with only two gas stations (Furnace Creek and Stovepipe Wells) providing fuel at wallet-emptying prices because of the distance the fuel trucks have to travel and how isolated the area is. Same with the armor trucks.

$22,000 divided by 365 days is $60 a day. If you call an armored truck for sixty bucks, you're either a wuss or an idiot.

[JayhawkCO]

Back in my delinquent early 20"s, I didn't have a bank account. It's easy enough to buy a Visa Gift Card for the times you need to use something other than cash.

[Rothman]

We must hear more about these "delinquent 20's" of Jayhawk's.