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NASCAR

Started by kenarmy, February 12, 2021, 10:30:58 PM

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Takumi

Two pieces of news this week:

1. Kyle Larson gets a two-year extension with Hendrick, with hendrickcars.com continuing to be the primary sponsor. From what I've seen, this was Rick Hendrick's decision to continue the sponsorship, as he says that he's had outside interest about sponsoring Larson.
https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/larson-contract-extension-hendrick-2023/6630292/

2. Austin Cindric will replace Brad Keselowski in the 2 next year, not the Wood Brothers car as originally planned. Keselowski is all but confirmed to be moving to Roush next year to take an ownership stake, while the Wood Brothers car will go, oddly, to Harrison Burton, currently a Gibbs development driver.
https://www.espn.com/racing/story/_/id/31821816/nascar-champ-brad-keselowski-leave-team-penske-austin-cindric-step-next-season
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.


formulanone

#176
Quote from: SP Cook on May 25, 2021, 12:11:06 PM
CART.  A lot of open wheel only fans have this mythology that the CART series and its decision to become an outlaw series when the IRL was formed had something to do with NASCAR's growth.

Truth is NASCAR was far ahead of CART long before the IRL was formed, and in fact, taking control from the CART mismanagement was the prime reason the IRL had to be formed. 

CART always found itself bullied, to be honest. It was borne out of the team owners running at USAC-sanctioned tracks, controlled as a show in the ways NASCAR does now with stock cars. The teams wanted a bigger chunk of the sponsors and receipts, teams/sponsors wanted to break out of the oval mold and get onto street courses and attract money like the FIA did. USAC had a lot more to do with the tracks which they'd run on, so there were two competing series from 1979-1981, with USAC eventually only holding the sweetest peach of all, the Indy 500.

I think NASCAR gets some unfair blame for the IRL split, (some say that Tony George took advice from Bill France and enforced the rules for racing at Indy Motor Speedway), but there was already a feud between the organizers and team owners for which NASCAR was the big winner. After all, the drivers and vehicles seemed more relatable and it all appeared a lot less elitist. CART was dependent on up-and-coming drivers talent in Midwest-based feeder series (Outlaws and midgets), but more of them were headed to NASCAR during the 1990s.

CART was dependent on that talent stream but instead a variety of open-wheel development leagues...never much of an attraction in their own right, especially when they were dependent on second-tier IMSA events to bolster the schedule. And of course, lots of open-wheel racers from Europe who couldn't get into the big time in F1 or sports-prototypes or if the bank account wasn't deep enough. Top that off with the FIA seeing CART as a big enough threat 25-30 years ago, whereby it tried revoke Grade 1 credentials if a track dared to run both F1 and CART's open-wheel races in the same calendar year.

Within a few years of the IRL/CART split, the talent migrated back to IRL because the most important race still resided there. Once the leadership of Roger Penske departed for the IRL, the others struggled anonymously for a few more years. There was barely enough room one top-tier open-wheel series in America, let alone two with middling fields.

IndyCar is pretty much now a spec-series and personally, a lot of the allure disappeared with that formula, though you can at least figure out the talent with similar equipment. (I kind of liked having that middle ground between 3-4 engine suppliers and 2-3 chassis for some variety, but that's a personal decision that's not always in the best interest for the health of a series.) There's a decent mixture of ovals and road courses to make it interesting, but there's only so much time in my life to get attached to it.

hbelkins

The Matty D fans are really upset about the developments at Wood Brothers.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2021, 11:44:07 AM
The Matty D fans are really upset about the developments at Wood Brothers.

Just saw the news that he is out of the #21. Some big shakeups coming. New startup team Trackhouse Racing is buying out Ganassi. Brad K is leaving Penske to buy into a share of ownership in Roush Fenway and is probably pushing Ryan Newman out of the #6.
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Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

SP Cook

And respected YouTube auto racing journalist David Land has reported, and now many in the traditional media have picked up on, that NASCAR may have a very big problem on its hands. 

For background, NASCAR is adopting a carbon fiber spec car for 22.  Teams would buy the cars from a company called Technique rather than making them themselves as has been the practice.  IMHO, pretty much moving NASCAR to being more like IMSA.

Anyway, apparently the crash test dummy "died"  during remote controlled crashes simulating historic crashes from NASCAR history.  The car was designed with too rigid a frame and too few crush zones.  Things that are basic design issues, not easy fixes at this late hour. 

Rumors have the project delayed until 23 or 24, or perhaps abandoned altogether.  Thing is many teams have already moved away from traditional race shop manufacture , and have told (the spec car will adopt many IMSA features like single lug nuts and Indy type fueling hoses that will make pit stops hardly matter) their over the wall guys to find new work.

Another solution in search of a problem.

hbelkins

I'd heard about the single lug nut move. Wasn't aware of the single-manufacturer body.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Billy F 1988

Quote from: SP Cook on July 15, 2021, 12:59:37 PM
And respected YouTube auto racing journalist David Land has reported, and now many in the traditional media have picked up on, that NASCAR may have a very big problem on its hands. 

For background, NASCAR is adopting a carbon fiber spec car for 22.  Teams would buy the cars from a company called Technique rather than making them themselves as has been the practice.  IMHO, pretty much moving NASCAR to being more like IMSA.

Anyway, apparently the crash test dummy "died"  during remote controlled crashes simulating historic crashes from NASCAR history.  The car was designed with too rigid a frame and too few crush zones.  Things that are basic design issues, not easy fixes at this late hour. 

Rumors have the project delayed until 23 or 24, or perhaps abandoned altogether.  Thing is many teams have already moved away from traditional race shop manufacture , and have told (the spec car will adopt many IMSA features like single lug nuts and Indy type fueling hoses that will make pit stops hardly matter) their over the wall guys to find new work.

Another solution in search of a problem.

Wow. The higher ups may have just attempted to murder off what little existence there is left of this once known sport. Oh, once-known, Billy F, you say? How so? If these dubious decisions are set in stone and they execute these plans, there will be no NASCAR. The name NASCAR may as well have been put six feet under. All in the name of what? Appeasement? Appeasement of who? The septillionaire sloths that run this death machine empire that's sort of called NASCAR? Guess we are about to see the funeral of the France family legacy take place. Yep. Kinda what I had expected many years ago. TRASHCAR is all I can think of this pile of junk. If that's the kind of "racin'" you want to see from now on, feel free. I was already out of interest of this sport a long time ago and stuff like this ain't gonna bring me back to the TRASHCAR fandom anytime soon. Common sense replaced with common stupidity. Thanks NASCAR. This ain't for me.
Finally upgraded to Expressway after, what, seven or so years on this forum? Took a dadgum while, but, I made it!

kevinb1994

Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.

Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

TonyTrafficLight

Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.

Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.

Sadly, that was expected by me. Everything is a conspiracy to some. I'll never understand that.
I like signals I guess

https://tonytrafficlight.com

Takumi

Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.

Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.

Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.

Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.

Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.

You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.

WillWeaverRVA

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.

Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.

Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.

You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.

That's what he was saying. Bubba earned that win.
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.

Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.

Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.

You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.

Yes, and everybody knew that the rain was coming. The wreck probably cost them 2-3 more green flag laps, but it's not like someone waiting until the last second to try to get to the front.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Max Rockatansky

#189
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on October 05, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.

Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.

Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.

You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.

That's what he was saying. Bubba earned that win.

There is people that bitch about the race being fixed every time one is washed out.  Considering the circumstances though, it wasn't the time for said crowd to complain again.  I'm sure a lot of it is the standard complaining but I'm also sure a lot of it has racial overtones also.  Both make the NASCAR fan base look really bad and don't help with the perception that it's full of racist old white dudes.

formulanone

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 11:30:37 AM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on October 05, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in "˜63 across the river at a defunct track.

Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.

Eh, it's Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.

You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.

That's what he was saying. Bubba earned that win.

There is people that bitch about the race being fixed every time one is washed out.  Considering the circumstances though, it wasn't the time for said crowd to complain again.  I'm sure a lot of it is the standard complaining but I'm also sure a lot of it has racial overtones also.  Both make the NASCAR fan base look really bad and don't help with the perception that it's full of racist old white dudes.

Or you know, they could try rain tires. (Never mind they probably aren't a problem solver, look at F1 at Spa earlier this year.)

Even if it was a fix, it certainly wouldn't be the first time it's happened.

Takumi

#191
Quote from: formulanone on October 05, 2021, 01:35:18 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 11:30:37 AM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on October 05, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 05, 2021, 10:33:31 AM
Quote from: Takumi on October 05, 2021, 10:29:55 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 05, 2021, 07:20:21 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on October 05, 2021, 12:39:52 AM
Congrats to Bubba Wallace. He did something not done since Wendell Scott did it in ‘63 across the river at a defunct track.

Not more than 5 minutes after the race was called, there were people calling the outcome rigged. Some people are just disgusting.

Eh, it’s Talladega, a track known for first time winners, and Bubba is known to be very good on superspeedways. His win was on merit.

You still have to be in the lead to take advantage of rain shorten race victories.

That's what he was saying. Bubba earned that win.

There is people that bitch about the race being fixed every time one is washed out.  Considering the circumstances though, it wasn’t the time for said crowd to complain again.  I’m sure a lot of it is the standard complaining but I’m also sure a lot of it has racial overtones also.  Both make the NASCAR fan base look really bad and don’t help with the perception that it’s full of racist old white dudes.

Or you know, they could try rain tires. (Never mind they probably aren't a problem solver, look at F1 at Spa earlier this year.)
They run rain tires at road courses. When they were at COTA earlier this year it rained, and the resulting race was still a shitshow.


Quote
Even if it was a fix, it certainly wouldn't be the first time it's happened.
A big part of me wants to say that if it were fixed, Bubba would have won several times already. (So nobody misinterprets what I mean this time, I’m not saying this as a slight against Bubba, but rather that it would be in NASCAR’s best interest that he won more.)
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
Olive Garden must be stopped.  I must stop them.

Don't @ me. Seriously.

hbelkins

I have no doubt that NASCAR was happy with the way the race turned out, given the "noose" hoax from last year at Talladega, but if you want evidence it wasn't fixed, look at the fact that they actually started track-drying efforts in an attempt to get the race restarted.

Rain tires? At 'Dega? I don't think so. I'm not sure they're even running them at the road courses now, although that was an experiment for a couple of years.

Also, "Let's Go Brandon!"   :-D Move over Chase Elliott, I think Brandon Brown is now NASCAR's most popular driver. They're even chanting for him at concerts and football games!


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

SP Cook

I agree with the above sentiment.  I have heard stuff about rigging races for 30 years.  If you believe that it is possible to fake something with that many actors and moving parts (literally and figuratively) you should put your tinfoil hat on and go back to bed.

Strange thing is I have been on a lot of racing websites and have failed completely to notice all this built up anger over Wallace.  Probably just another example of people who think they know a lot about people they don't know and places they don't live.  The south has been too busy for this stuff for a very long time.

hotdogPi

Quote from: SP Cook on October 05, 2021, 04:00:19 PM
I agree with the above sentiment.  I have heard stuff about rigging races for 30 years.  If you believe that it is possible to fake something with that many actors and moving parts (literally and figuratively) you should put your tinfoil hat on and go back to bed.

Strange thing is I have been on a lot of racing websites and have failed completely to notice all this built up anger over Wallace.  Probably just another example of people who think they know a lot about people they don't know and places they don't live.  The south has been too busy for this stuff for a very long time.

Yet you believe the NBA is rigged.
Clinched

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Lowest untraveled: 25

Billy F 1988

Oh, please! For bootin' up cold! You seem to find ways to call it rigged in nearly a handful of sports you watch. Did you really think NASCAR was simply gonna hand over the trophy to Wendell Scott on a silver platter after he CLEARLY won his race fairly? Yeah. Think about that the next time you wanna pout like little kids at the news of Bubba Wallace's first win in a rain shortened event. Man, please!
Finally upgraded to Expressway after, what, seven or so years on this forum? Took a dadgum while, but, I made it!

rickmastfan67

They need lights at Talladega, period. That way, there's at least a chance to give the fans in the stands a full race.

WillWeaverRVA

Quote from: hbelkins on October 05, 2021, 03:15:56 PM
Rain tires? At 'Dega? I don't think so. I'm not sure they're even running them at the road courses now, although that was an experiment for a couple of years.

Rain tires at Dega would be so disastrous it'd almost be hilarious.

They are indeed running them at the road courses, though, they just used them at COTA earlier this year. The New Hampshire race demonstrated why rain tires are still a good idea.

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on October 05, 2021, 11:13:56 PM
They need lights at Talladega, period. That way, there's at least a chance to give the fans in the stands a full race.

There has been huge opposition to putting lights at Talladega because fans feel it would diminish the track's "culture", namely the all-night tailgate parties that happen the night before and the night after the race.
Will Weaver
WillWeaverRVA Photography | Twitter

"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

formulanone

#198
Quote from: SP Cook on October 05, 2021, 04:00:19 PM
I agree with the above sentiment.  I have heard stuff about rigging races for 30 years.  If you believe that it is possible to fake something with that many actors and moving parts (literally and figuratively) you should put your tinfoil hat on and go back to bed.

It's not difficult to imagine that a scrutineer or an official waives something (not just in NASCAR) which is not in public view. It's hard to pull too many strings but easy allow one or two "slip by". Yes, dozens of others are trying their best to win and much more official actions are in the public eye. But decisions made when they're at the discretion of individuals, rather than rules, are always going to be controversial...how and when rain calls off an event is always random-ass.

Rain tires are just my cheeky imagination, sorry about that.

I'm not a fan of night races, it just doesn't look as good on TV, in my opinion.

hbelkins

If NASCAR was fixing races, Kevin Harvick would have won Rockingham in February in 2001. As it was, there were still claims of "fixing" because Steve Park won.

The combination of "restrictor plate" and "rain" is tailor-made for unexpected outcomes. Derrike Cope, Michael Waltrip's second Daytona win, Trevor Bayne, Bubba Wallace ... and yes, Brandon Brown. (Not that all of the above were rain-shortened, but that's the unpredictable nature of plate racing.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.



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