Oregon ends its 72-year ban on self-service gasoline

[Great Lakes Roads]

Perfect timing since I will be in Oregon next month for a few days...

[Jim]

The only times I top off any more are the times when I'm renting a car and know the rental company is gonna charge me for every drop of gas they can squeeze in after I drop it off.

Curious if that has that actually happened to you.  I've never been charged for gas when returning a rental car, and I usually would fill up at least a few miles away to avoid the airport area price differences, and don't top off after the pump clicks off.

When I've rented from Enterprise locally, not airport locations, it normally doesn't start out with a full tank.  They just mark the fuel level when you take the car and if it's reasonably close to the same level on return they don't seem to care.

[Jim]

First time I was in Oregon back in the late 90's, I had no idea they had this law.  When I got out and started to approach the pump, the attendant went crazy.  It's a long time ago, but I recall being shocked at how big a deal he was making of it, especially when I said I don't mind pumping it myself.  You would have thought if I touched the pump the station was instantly going to blow up or something.

Glad to hear they're ditching it.

[Ted$8roadFan]

While I've never been to Oregon, I have been to New Jersey, the last state to have full-service gas. I can't recall having any major issues while paying by card (easier than cash). A couple of things that I noticed, however, were long lines, especially at service areas on the NJTP and the Garden State Parkway, and overmatched attendants. Granted there are lots of travelers and the service areas seem like they're at capacity; perhaps it's different off-highway. It was enough to make me gas up in either Pennsylvania or Delaware. I'm sure Oregon residents will soon wonder what the big deal was in preserving full-serve only for so long.

[Bruce]

Been to a few Costco gas stations in Oregon, which get busy. The attendants were actually a benefit there since they could swipe the membership card and/or payment cards faster than a fumbling motorist would. Of course having enough attendants on hand is a luxury that a place like Costco could afford.

[Rothman]

The only times I top off any more are the times when I'm renting a car and know the rental company is gonna charge me for every drop of gas they can squeeze in after I drop it off.

Curious if that has that actually happened to you.  I've never been charged for gas when returning a rental car, and I usually would fill up at least a few miles away to avoid the airport area price differences, and don't top off after the pump clicks off.

When I've rented from Enterprise locally, not airport locations, it normally doesn't start out with a full tank.  They just mark the fuel level when you take the car and if it's reasonably close to the same level on return they don't seem to care.

I was charged once for not filling up the gas tank, but it was a noticeable yet minor amount on the gas gauge.  I was hurrying to get back to an airport and just forgot.

[1995hoo]

While I've never been to Oregon, I have been to New Jersey, the last state to have full-service gas. I can't recall having any major issues while paying by card (easier than cash). A couple of things that I noticed, however, were long lines, especially at service areas on the NJTP and the Garden State Parkway, and overmatched attendants. Granted there are lots of travelers and the service areas seem like they're at capacity; perhaps it's different off-highway. It was enough to make me gas up in either Pennsylvania or Delaware. I'm sure Oregon residents will soon wonder what the big deal was in preserving full-serve only for so long.

One thing I noted in New Jersey at the Turnpike service plazas was how unbalanced the lines often were because the attendants demanded the fuel filler door be on the same side as the pumps. Because more vehicles have it on the driver's side, that meant longer lines at the left-side pumps because they also went berserk if anyone tried to loop around to approach from the opposite direction or do a three-point turn to back in on the other side (both of which are things I've often done at crowded gas stations outside New Jersey in order to avoid waiting on line).

[Max Rockatansky]

Amusingly one time on base someone on the military side suggested we use attendants after a customer yanked pump by mistaken.  Typically the cost to repair for one of our pumps (in California) costs between $450-$1,400.  Considering the profit margin on gas is typically about $0.05-$0.10 a gallon it would take quite some time for attendant intervention to recoup our costs.  Worth noting, our station is ten pumps and does not have a mini-mart.  When the station is busy more than one attendant would be necessary. 

[formulanone]

The only times I top off any more are the times when I'm renting a car and know the rental company is gonna charge me for every drop of gas they can squeeze in after I drop it off.

Curious if that has that actually happened to you.  I've never been charged for gas when returning a rental car, and I usually would fill up at least a few miles away to avoid the airport area price differences, and don't top off after the pump clicks off.

When I've rented from Enterprise locally, not airport locations, it normally doesn't start out with a full tank.  They just mark the fuel level when you take the car and if it's reasonably close to the same level on return they don't seem to care.

I was charged once for not filling up the gas tank, but it was a noticeable yet minor amount on the gas gauge.  I was hurrying to get back to an airport and just forgot.

Avis has become a lot pickier in the last year or so, because they can read the gas tank remotely on my vehicles now, so I've had some charges that claimed my tank was 0.2 gallon than full (although the needle was pointing at full). Usually I fill up 5-10 miles from the airport, although there's some fairly reliable places that are near airports, but you never know if half the pumps are out of order or the pumps are packed.

In many cases, there isn't a gas station nearby, or not a terribly conveniently located one. If it's less than half a gallon, I just call them and they wipe off the charge. But that also another 10-20 minutes out of my day to fight a $3-4 charge.

I guess this also makes up for the 2-3 occasions in which I forgot to fill up and they didn't charge me for it. Probably because the attendant didn't care or notice at 4am.

[abefroman329]

Curious if that has that actually happened to you.

It has.  Back in 2015, I rented from Avis at the Philly airport for business, and returned the car with a full tank of gas.  Avis was able to squeeze, no exaggeration, about $1.50 in gas into the tank and charged me for it.

[Max Rockatansky]

Had that happen to me at SeaTac with Hertz.  The returns attendant tried to surcharge me for not filling up because they could pump about $1 into the car.  The attendant made the mistake of getting upset at me (called me cheap) and the duty manager ended waiving the surcharge.  What confused me was how the attendant came to the conclusion I was being cheap when the rental was paid for a government travel card, none of it was my money.

[bm7]

Wasn't the idea more about the mandate creating jobs than being a safety thing?

The Oregon state law states many reasons for it, most of them safety related, but it has one line about providing jobs.

Code Select Expand

480.315 Policy. The Legislative Assembly declares that, except as provided in ORS 480.345 to 480.385, it is in the public interest to maintain a prohibition on the self-service dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids at retail. The Legislative Assembly finds and declares that:

      (1) The dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids by dispensers properly trained in appropriate safety procedures reduces fire hazards directly associated with the dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids;

      (2) Appropriate safety standards often are unenforceable at retail self-service stations in other states because cashiers are often unable to maintain a clear view of and give undivided attention to the dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids by customers;

      (3) Higher liability insurance rates charged to retail self-service stations reflect the dangers posed to customers when they leave their vehicles to dispense Class 1 flammable liquids, such as the increased risk of crime and the increased risk of personal injury resulting from slipping on slick surfaces;

      (4) The dangers of crime and slick surfaces described in subsection (3) of this section are enhanced because Oregon's weather is uniquely adverse, causing wet pavement and reduced visibility;

      (5) The dangers described in subsection (3) of this section are heightened when the customer is a senior citizen or has a disability, especially if the customer uses a mobility aid, such as a wheelchair, walker, cane or crutches;

      (6) Attempts by other states to require the providing of aid to senior citizens and persons with disabilities in the self-service dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids at retail have failed, and therefore, senior citizens and persons with disabilities must pay the higher costs of full service;

      (7) Exposure to toxic fumes represents a health hazard to customers dispensing Class 1 flammable liquids;

      (8) The hazard described in subsection (7) of this section is heightened when the customer is pregnant;

      (9) The exposure to Class 1 flammable liquids through dispensing should, in general, be limited to as few individuals as possible, such as gasoline station owners and their employees or other trained and certified dispensers;

      (10) The typical practice of charging significantly higher prices for full-service fuel dispensing in states where self-service is permitted at retail:

      (a) Discriminates against customers with lower incomes, who are under greater economic pressure to subject themselves to the inconvenience and hazards of self-service;

      (b) Discriminates against customers who are elderly or have disabilities who are unable to serve themselves and so must pay the significantly higher prices; and

      (c) Increases self-service dispensing and thereby decreases maintenance checks by attendants, which results in neglect of maintenance, endangering both the customer and other motorists and resulting in unnecessary and costly repairs;

      (11) The increased use of self-service at retail in other states has contributed to diminishing the availability of automotive repair facilities at gasoline stations;

      (12) Self-service dispensing at retail in other states does not provide a sustained reduction in fuel prices charged to customers;

      (13) A general prohibition of self-service dispensing of Class 1 flammable liquids by the general public promotes public welfare by providing increased safety and convenience without causing economic harm to the public in general;

      (14) Self-service dispensing at retail contributes to unemployment, particularly among young people;

      (15) Self-service dispensing at retail presents a health hazard and unreasonable discomfort to persons with disabilities, elderly persons, small children and those susceptible to respiratory diseases;

      (16) The federal Americans with Disabilities Act, Public Law 101-336, requires that equal access be provided to persons with disabilities at retail gasoline stations; and

      (17) Small children left unattended when customers leave to make payment at retail self-service stations creates a dangerous situation.

It's too dangerous for you to spend 10 minutes every month filling your gas because of exposure to gasoline fumes, but having a teenager do it for 20 hours a week? Perfectly fine!

[formulanone]

Had that happen to me at SeaTac with Hertz.  The returns attendant tried to surcharge me for not filling up because they could pump about $1 into the car.  The attendant made the mistake of getting upset at me (called me cheap) and the duty manager ended waiving the surcharge.  What confused me was how the attendant came to the conclusion I was being cheap when the rental was paid for a government travel card, none of it was my money.

I can't wait until they hit us for electrical surcharges because we returned their EVs at 97% charged...

[abefroman329]

Had that happen to me at SeaTac with Hertz.  The returns attendant tried to surcharge me for not filling up because they could pump about $1 into the car.  The attendant made the mistake of getting upset at me (called me cheap) and the duty manager ended waiving the surcharge.  What confused me was how the attendant came to the conclusion I was being cheap when the rental was paid for a government travel card, none of it was my money.

I can't wait until they hit us for electrical surcharges because we returned their EVs at 97% charged...

Hasn't happened yet - I rented an EV from Hertz at LaGuardia, returned it to a local branch in Brooklyn the next day, not having charged it at all, and they didn't charge me for that.

Once it's as easy to find EV charging stations that are open to the public as it is to find a gas station, though, I'm sure that will change.

[1995hoo]

I rented a Tesla from Hertz in Fort Lauderdale in January. It wasn't entirely clear on whether you had to charge it before returning it–the information they provided seemed to be contradictory–but because there's a Supercharger near our relatives' house, we stopped there en route to the airport (it was not free to use; Hertz passed along the charge to my American Express card and the amount they charged me matched the amount the car's display quoted). It so happened that because it doesn't charge to 100%, we got to the airport with around 75% battery life remaining, but that was the amount of charge it had when we picked up the vehicle and they didn't impose a fee.

[Bruce]

EVs shouldn't be consistently charged to 100% anyway (and many charging stations won't even let you get close if there's potential for spot idling). The last bit to get to 100% takes longer to charge due to the way that the battery works.

[hotdogPi]

EVs shouldn't be consistently charged to 100% anyway (and many charging stations won't even let you get close if there's potential for spot idling). The last bit to get to 100% takes longer to charge due to the way that the battery works.

At least on my laptop, having it hit 100% and immediately unplugging causes it start going down instantly, while leaving it at 100% for a while keeps it at 100% for 15-20 minutes of use after unplugging, as if "100%" isn't actually 100%. Are cars not the same way?

[SectorZ]

EVs shouldn't be consistently charged to 100% anyway (and many charging stations won't even let you get close if there's potential for spot idling). The last bit to get to 100% takes longer to charge due to the way that the battery works.

At least on my laptop, having it hit 100% and immediately unplugging causes it start going down instantly, while leaving it at 100% for a while keeps it at 100% for 15-20 minutes of use after unplugging, as if "100%" isn't actually 100%. Are cars not the same way?

All smartphones I've owned, two iPhones, two LG phones, and a Samsung, all have operated the same way with the 100%+ charge level. Using apps to track bicycle rides test this oddity by not draining battery for 1 hr, then draining 10% per hour after.

Cars seem to work more accurately from what I've seen and read.

[abefroman329]

EVs shouldn't be consistently charged to 100% anyway (and many charging stations won't even let you get close if there's potential for spot idling). The last bit to get to 100% takes longer to charge due to the way that the battery works.

Theres a separate list of Ts and Cs for EVs and it does stipulate the battery level the car needs to be returned at, but it's less than 100%.

[doorknob60]

About time. I was born in Oregon, and learned to drive there (so my first ~4 years of driving mostly took place in Oregon). Always hated getting gas in Oregon. And it got way worse after Covid, since a lot of stations struggled to keep enough staff. I've been to more than one gas station where half the pumps are closed off, and overall, had countless times where I had to wait 10-15 minutes to get gas where there would be no delay in any other state.

Fred Meyer (Kroger) gas stations are probably the best (worst) example. They tend to get crowded in Oregon, often have pumps closed (post covid anyways), and the attendants are often slow. The Bend one in particular wasted a lot of my time in high school. I kept going there because the price was a lot cheaper (though there are a few other reasonably priced stations in Bend if you know where to go). I have never had to wait to get gas at Fred Meyer in Idaho or Washington.

[kphoger]

Speaking as someone who travels semi-regularly to Mexico, where all gas stations are full-service only, I don't understand people's hatred of full-service gas stations.  So someone else pumps your gas instead of you.  What's the big deal?

[J N Winkler]

Speaking as someone who travels semi-regularly to Mexico, where all gas stations are full-service only, I don't understand people's hatred of full-service gas stations.  So someone else pumps your gas instead of you.  What's the big deal?

It tends to bother people (like me) who have a particular routine they follow when they refuel, for things like interacting with the pump interface, stowing the gas cap, putting the pump nozzle back in the holder (which triggers the receipt prompt for many/most/all? pump designs), replacing the gas cap, and readying the car to pull away.  And if there are unusual issues in play that the owner knows of but a gas jockey wouldn't, such as a tank that causes pump shutoffs to trip prematurely, having to have gas pumped by someone else greatly magnifies the hassle factor.

TL;DR--we don't like having our cars messed with.

I don't really care for Mexico's ban on self-service gasoline, either, but I put up with it to avoid being the Ugly American abroad.  (Self-service is the norm in the UK and Ireland, though I've never seen any pumps with hold-open detents there and suspect they may not be legal in either country.)

[corco]

Speaking as someone who travels semi-regularly to Mexico, where all gas stations are full-service only, I don't understand people's hatred of full-service gas stations.  So someone else pumps your gas instead of you.  What's the big deal?

In Mexico (and other countries I've been to with full service fueling) I've never had to wait 10 minutes to get a pump attendant is the difference, or wait a long period of time for pumps to open up while one attendant tries to man a dozen gas pumps. I didn't mind full-service in rural Oregon away from the interstate when it existed, but otherwise it's often been a pain in the ass in urban Oregon (or right off the interstate) and New Jersey.

[texaskdog]

Sad because most people are too stupid to pump gas

Zoolander is only a movie.

Lets see I've seen kids pumping gas, people pumping gas while smoking, numerous other things....

[Max Rockatansky]

Speaking as someone who travels semi-regularly to Mexico, where all gas stations are full-service only, I don't understand people's hatred of full-service gas stations.  So someone else pumps your gas instead of you.  What's the big deal?

Some of us just don't care for unnecessary human interaction with a stranger.  For me that's the reason, nothing more grandiose than that.