Why does Chick-fil-A avoid the Northeast

[jwolfer]

Since Pete is from Boston, he (and others) are probably familiar with the 99 Restaurant chain.  What he just said in the post above applies very much to 99: They tried to enter the Philadelphia Market.  They had 4 stores in PA near Philly, and 1 in NJ near Philly. They advertised a good deal, both on TV and elsewhere.  There was a simple 99 Restaurant logo at Citizens Bank Park, for example.

While I did enjoy the food a lot, especially their variety, they didn't survive in the Philly market.  Much of that may have been due to what appeared to be a failure to accept the Philly market.  In my local 99, the manager was from the New York area.  Loved the Football Giants; disliked the Football Eagles.  No problem there...except the majority of the people going to the bar area are Eagles fans.  You're going to have to cater to Eagles fans if you want football fans in your bar on Sundays.  In other words, don't turn over half the TVs on to the Giants game. 

99 just had too hard of a time accepting the Philly market for what it is, and kept trying to shove the New York/New England way of things onto their customers.  Eventually, they closed 1 of their PA stores, then shut down the other 4 stores at a later date. 

They continue to thrive in the New England area; they just failed at appreciating the Philly market and what people want.

A chain has to make some tweaks for each market... In the South brewed, sweet, iced tea is necessary

[jwolfer]

Sometimes a failure of a national chain has to do with franchisee failing in business. We had a fresh salad type restaurant near us that we liked. ( cant remember name)

It closed but the location across town stayed open. The guy who owned the franchise for our area failed according to manager if other location

[jwolfer]

But if a person is bisexual that person is bisexual not gay.

Andrew Dice Clay expressed a different opinion about 25 years ago. 

The "one drop rule" adapted for sexual orientation

[jwolfer]

This has surprisingly produced an interesting conversation that I didn't expect. The Tim Hortons example is a good one, and for relevancy to this topic and to stoke the flames, I will add in a 2014 map of where their locations were:



It should be noted that they now apparently have three WA restaurants, which opened this year. Also it should be noted that they have indicated they want to expand into the Albany, NY metro area.

Another thing to point out.. CFA is concentrated to the Southeast. They began in Atlanta, a company will expand from their home base.

[roadman65]

The bigger question is why did Jack In The Box move out of the north-east as they were in New Jersey back in the 1970's and before.  For some reason they yanked them away.

I do not know how far in the Northeast they were, whether New England and Upstate NY had them or not, but here is a major chain located all over Texas, California, and many places in between those two, yet they stopped marketing in New Jersey for sure, and probably NY and PA as well.  I did hear from native Floridians that we used to have them in Orlando at one time, but like the Garden State, the company closed their stores all together.

[Pete from Boston]

The bigger question is why did Jack In The Box move out of the north-east as they were in New Jersey back in the 1970's and before.  For some reason they yanked them away.

I do not know how far in the Northeast they were, whether New England and Upstate NY had them or not, but here is a major chain located all over Texas, California, and many places in between those two, yet they stopped marketing in New Jersey for sure, and probably NY and PA as well.  I did hear from native Floridians that we used to have them in Orlando at one time, but like the Garden State, the company closed their stores all together.

I saw one in Nashville recently.  I had no idea they were that far east.

[roadman65]

Actually Charlotte, NC has one off an I-77 interchange near Carowinds Amusement Park.

[The Nature Boy]

If you right click and check the URL link, it's a Chick fil A map.

[jeffandnicole]

If you right click and check the URL link, it's a Chick fil A map.

Actually, the link starts with 'www.thedailybanter.com'.  What this has to do with Chick-fil-a, I don't know.  Its clearly not correct...Not by a long shot.  Hell, check Chick-fil-a's actual website...I think they know where their stores are.  Again, talking about my county (Gloucester County, NJ): My mall has had a Chick-fil-a in it since the mid-90's, when the food court was built!  And in the same county, my father-in-law use to visit one quite often...and he passed away 3 years ago!

[PHLBOS]

Since Pete is from Boston, he (and others) are probably familiar with the 99 Restaurant chain.  What he just said in the post above applies very much to 99: They tried to enter the Philadelphia Market.  They had 4 stores in PA near Philly, and 1 in NJ near Philly. They advertised a good deal, both on TV and elsewhere.  There was a simple 99 Restaurant logo at Citizens Bank Park, for example.

While I did enjoy the food a lot, especially their variety, they didn't survive in the Philly market.  Much of that may have been due to what appeared to be a failure to accept the Philly market.  In my local 99, the manager was from the New York area.  Loved the Football Giants; disliked the Football Eagles.  No problem there...except the majority of the people going to the bar area are Eagles fans.  You're going to have to cater to Eagles fans if you want football fans in your bar on Sundays.  In other words, don't turn over half the TVs on to the Giants game. 

99 just had too hard of a time accepting the Philly market for what it is, and kept trying to shove the New York/New England way of things onto their customers.  Eventually, they closed 1 of their PA stores, then shut down the other 4 stores at a later date. 

They continue to thrive in the New England area; they just failed at appreciating the Philly market and what people want.

The only 99 Restaurant I personally recall seeing (in southeastern PA) was the one that was along PA 363 in the Oaks/Trooper area several years ago.  I thought that one just closed due to it was literally surrounded by more-familiar/known (to the locals) competition (example: Applebees).

Ironically, I didn't start eating at 99s until years after I moved out of the North Shore/Greater Boston area; I would eat at one when visiting my family (most of whom are still in the Bay State).  Having two of them open reasonably close to where my mother lives (Salem & Revere, both along MA 1A) since I moved away 25 years ago has helped... especially the Salem location.

[kphoger]

Wow. I've read almost every post on this thread. That took quite a while. I've been impressed at how civil and reasonable people have been in their comments.

I would like to correct Jonathan Winkler's comment that all CFA locations in Wichita were opened very recently: the one on campus at the university has been open for years, but few people knew it existed. The one closest to my house (Rock Road) opened a bit before the controversy, and so I can share my experience with the protests.

For ideological reasons contrary to those of most members here, I am happy that my money goes to CFA, and we eat there often. On the protest day, our family specifically chose to eat there in order to show our support with our pocketbook. I also picked lunch up to go a couple of weeks later on the "support CFA" day, which was the counter-protest mentioned far upthread. On protest day, I saw anywhere from three to twelve protesters out at the curb, depending on the time of day we drove by; not much protest, but it did seem to encourage regulars to just avoid going that day to avoid the drama. On the counter-protest day, however, I had to park in the grocery store lot and spend more than an hour in line to order my food, there were THAT many people.

And so, even if the protest hurt business (and I know it did moreso in other locations such as Springfield (MO), where they actually had to close down for the day), I'd say it's reasonable to assume they more than made up the lost revenue later. For our family and for others we know, the issue has caused us to choose CFA over other establishments, in support of their organization, and there is always a line at our local CFA until at least 7:00.

Understanding that the Northeast is a different culture than Kansas, I still doubt that this whole controversy plays much of a role in CFA's slow entry into the region. Other things are likely much more at play, and many have been suggested here. But all we're doing is guessing. Unless an upper-crust executive at CFA gets involved in this thread, I doubt we'll ever know the real reason(s).

[briantroutman]

The bigger question is why did Jack In The Box move out of the north-east as they were in New Jersey back in the 1970's and before.  For some reason they yanked them away.

I saw one in Nashville recently.  I had no idea they were that far east.

Actually, they're even further east: Greenville, SC and Charlotte, NC.

I seem to recall my dad talking about going to Jack in the Box as an adolescent in southern NJ during the late '60s.

Jack in the Box was founded in San Diego and is still headquartered there. Apparently, the big eastward push was the result of Ralston Purina's investment in the company in the '60s. (There was a rash of huge food manufacturers buying into fast food chains at the time: Pillsbury bought Burger King in 1967 and General Foods acquired Burger Chef.)

As with some other fast food chains, Jack in the Box struggled with over saturation of the burger market in the 1980s, changed hands several times, and retreated from many of their more distant markets.

[The Nature Boy]

If you right click and check the URL link, it's a Chick fil A map.

Actually, the link starts with 'www.thedailybanter.com'.  What this has to do with Chick-fil-a, I don't know.  Its clearly not correct...Not by a long shot.  Hell, check Chick-fil-a's actual website...I think they know where their stores are.  Again, talking about my county (Gloucester County, NJ): My mall has had a Chick-fil-a in it since the mid-90's, when the food court was built!  And in the same county, my father-in-law use to visit one quite often...and he passed away 3 years ago!

The map link

http://thedailybanter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/chick-fil-a-map.png

It literally says "chick fil a map" Whether it's accurate or not is another story.

[kphoger]

PS - while I am a Christian, I don't know how you could have come to that view without sweeping generalisations, etc. In fact, on this forum, I believe I am 'coming out' now, so to speak.

For what it's worth, english si (if that is your real name), I've known you were a Christian since 2012, but your secret has remained safe with me this whole time. Nobody but a faithful churchgoer could possibly have quite so many opinions about Advent and Christmas songs as you shared on this very forum three years ago. You might feel that you're coming out now, but you can rest assured (or uneasily exposed) that some of us have known all along. What I appreciate most about your contributions to this forum is that you offer a conservative viewpoint to social issues from a rather un-American perspective. Especially when it comes to the religious right, American Christians are so often some of the stupidest-sounding parties in the debate; a fresh voice of intelligence that doesn't spout out the usual script is (or should be) refreshing to all who listen.
[/offtopic]

[hbelkins]

If that's a CFA map, I'm not sure it's accurate. It shows locations in Rowan and Franklin counties in Kentucky. Unless they have locations on the campuses (campii?) of Morehead State and Kentucky State universities, I'm not aware of CFA locations in Morehead or Frankfort.

[The Nature Boy]

If that's a CFA map, I'm not sure it's accurate. It shows locations in Rowan and Franklin counties in Kentucky. Unless they have locations on the campuses (campii?) of Morehead State and Kentucky State universities, I'm not aware of CFA locations in Morehead or Frankfort.

According to Google, both of those places have a Chick fil A. They also count the Oakland University Chick fil A in Michigan as a Chick fil A for Oakland County.

I don't think that it's an "if" at this point. It may be inaccurate but it's indisputable that the author of the map meant for it to represent Chick fil A locations.

[jeffandnicole]

If you right click and check the URL link, it's a Chick fil A map.

Actually, the link starts with 'www.thedailybanter.com'.  What this has to do with Chick-fil-a, I don't know.  Its clearly not correct...Not by a long shot.  Hell, check Chick-fil-a's actual website...I think they know where their stores are.  Again, talking about my county (Gloucester County, NJ): My mall has had a Chick-fil-a in it since the mid-90's, when the food court was built!  And in the same county, my father-in-law use to visit one quite often...and he passed away 3 years ago!

The map link

http://thedailybanter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/chick-fil-a-map.png

It literally says "chick fil a map" Whether it's accurate or not is another story.

Actually, there's nothing indicating it's even a location map.  And since there's no accompanying story, who knows what the purpose of the map is.

I don't think that it's an "if" at this point. It may be inaccurate but it's indisputable that the author of the map meant for it to represent Chick fil A locations.

You can't be serious.  How the fuck do you know that?

How about next time, you try this link: http://www.chick-fil-a.com/Locations/Locator .  OMG...It's Chick-fil-a's very own website! 

[hbelkins]

If that's a CFA map, I'm not sure it's accurate. It shows locations in Rowan and Franklin counties in Kentucky. Unless they have locations on the campuses (campii?) of Morehead State and Kentucky State universities, I'm not aware of CFA locations in Morehead or Frankfort.

According to Google, both of those places have a Chick fil A.

Google's wrong, then. CFA's site shows there's one at MSU, but not at KSU. I'm surprised there hasn't been a protest about the one at MSU, given that Morehead's the county seat of Rowan County, home of County Clerk Kim Davis.

[Buffaboy]

Let's take a step back guys, this map was also on Wikipedia, and is current as of 2012: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chickfila_location_distribution.svg

The location finder is OK, but I like graphical representations of data.

[jeffandnicole]

Let's take a step back guys, this map was also on Wikipedia, and is current as of 2012: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chickfila_location_distribution.svg

The location finder is OK, but I like graphical representations of data.

Bang head against wall:   
Bang head against wall:   
Bang head against wall:   
Bang head against wall:   
Bang head against wall:   

One last time people. The map is wrong.  I live in a county where we've had no fewer than 3 in 2012, and a 4th was open around that time (with at least 1 or 2 locations going back to the 1990's).

I live next to a county where a Chick-fil-a existed in at least 3 locations prior to 2012 (with at least 1 or 2 locations going back to the 1990's).

Yet, both the locations show as 'No Chick-fil-a" on the map.  And these are just the locations I have direct knowledge of, without diving into all the other states.

Honestly, this entire thread has been wrong since it was titled 'Why does Chick-fil-A avoid the Northeast". 

Stop using the fucking map.  What more proof do you want...should I pull up notarized zoning permits?

[english si]

For what it's worth, english si (if that is your real name), I've known you were a Christian since 2012, but your secret has remained safe with me this whole time. Nobody but a faithful churchgoer could possibly have quite so many opinions about Advent and Christmas songs as you shared on this very forum three years ago. You might feel that you're coming out now, but you can rest assured (or uneasily exposed) that some of us have known all along.

Thanks

What I appreciate most about your contributions to this forum is that you offer a conservative viewpoint to social issues from a rather un-American perspective.

Only 'rather' un-American? As an un-American, I would hope it was an un-American perspective!

Especially when it comes to the religious right, American Christians are so often some of the stupidest-sounding parties in the debate;

Oh, indeed. It doesn't help that the cultural 'Christianity'^* in the Bible Belt - what I would term 'evanjellycalism' - is some sort of anti-intellectual triumphalist "moralistic therapeutic deism". It's little wonder that those actual evangelicals^**, especially outside places where that's culturally cool, that can label themselves something else (eg Confessional Reformed) are doing so in increased numbers to distance themselves from the nonsense and baggage that the term has picked up.

There are intellectual and nuanced voices in the US cultural right, but they get ignored as the cultural right is dominated by the anti-intellectual element. Plus also, as such voices don't chime with the cultural left's view of the cultural right, they get ignored as they challenge the "they're all small town biggitz" viewpoint (maybe those towns should get a SoPaSoDo in order to get a Whole Foods, to show the rest of the country that they aren't hicks? ).

I guess I need to bring this back on topic - there has been an assumption in this thread that CFA will only set up shop, and get customers, in places with hicks. More than half the country (it crossed the 50% line after the nation's top judges couldn't come up with a decent argument for it) hold the view on the state's recognition of marriage that CFA backed financially, and probably the middle 30-40% won't care enough to boycott/go out of their way to support such a restaurant. As others have pointed out, the controversy probably increased their business.

Interestingly, I don't think many in the South boycotted Coca Cola for sponsoring Planned Parenthood (they've since stopped doing so), but virtue signalling by boycotting businesses seems to be far more of a culturally left trait.

^*There's a reason why Joel Osteen-like megachurches would do poorly in Europe: there's not a culture of churchgoing any more, so Osteen's fluff wouldn't attract people who feel a cultural pressure to go to church, but don't really want any Christian content, because they don't really exist here. Osteen is picked on here as he's a big name 'Christian' who's head seems to be an empty box (which is probably just a carefully crafted image to 'sell' himself to make people like him) for displaying a haircut and smile that spouts platitudes and nothing else. There are worse out there, but he's just obvious.
^**In the general theological sense of theologically-conservative Protestants. So I would include myself, whereas culturally and/or in a narrower theological sense (eg hermetically), I wouldn't count myself.

[The Nature Boy]

If you right click and check the URL link, it's a Chick fil A map.

Actually, the link starts with 'www.thedailybanter.com'.  What this has to do with Chick-fil-a, I don't know.  Its clearly not correct...Not by a long shot.  Hell, check Chick-fil-a's actual website...I think they know where their stores are.  Again, talking about my county (Gloucester County, NJ): My mall has had a Chick-fil-a in it since the mid-90's, when the food court was built!  And in the same county, my father-in-law use to visit one quite often...and he passed away 3 years ago!

The map link

http://thedailybanter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/chick-fil-a-map.png

It literally says "chick fil a map" Whether it's accurate or not is another story.

Actually, there's nothing indicating it's even a location map.  And since there's no accompanying story, who knows what the purpose of the map is.

I don't think that it's an "if" at this point. It may be inaccurate but it's indisputable that the author of the map meant for it to represent Chick fil A locations.

You can't be serious.  How the fuck do you know that?

How about next time, you try this link: http://www.chick-fil-a.com/Locations/Locator .  OMG...It's Chick-fil-a's very own website!

First of all, the fact that the URL itself includes the words "chick fil a map" is a give away to the author's intent. As I said, it may be inaccurate and the author may have done a terrible job but there's no disputing his intent. I don't know what else a Chick fil A map could represent. He does nail some of the locations outside of the core area (the Oakland U location, the Nashua, NH location and the Peabody, MA location) so based on those context clues alone, I can tell what it was trying to do.

How about showing some decorum next time? Using swear words and attacking people over someone else's bad job is not warranted.

[hbelkins]

this map was also on Wikipedia

Even more reason to doubt its validity. 

[jakeroot]

this map was also on Wikipedia

Even more reason to doubt its validity. 

But it does have a source for its data:

http://find.mapmuse.com/map/chick-fil-a

Feel free to debate mapmuse's validity.

[Duke87]

It's clearly been established that the dataset is not 100% accurate as there are locations missing from it. Based on MapMuse's FAQ it appears their data is at least in part crowdsourced, i.e. it was scraped by script from somewhere and there is no internal QC but they will gladly consider corrections and additions if submitted by users. So naturally their list of Chick-fil-A locations is going to be missing some and is also probably going to have a few false positives.

Nonetheless, while one cannot use the resulting map for detailed local analyses, it does still sorta show how Chick-fil-A is more concentrated in their home turf (the South) than anywhere else.