Why does Chick-fil-A avoid the Northeast

[jwolfer]

To me, marriage has always been about mutual love.  I don't understand other views (especially since my spiritual views don't match any human religion or set of beliefs).

To make this more fun, I'm gonna throw in the element of romantic orientation.  A gay male could theoretically be in a mutual love marriage with a woman if he's bi/panromantic.

If he is bisexual/pansexual he is not gay.

All of us fall somewhere on the Kinsey scale. 0 totally straight and 6 totally gay


But to keep on topic. Like them or not Chick-fil-a is very successful.

[english si]

If he is bisexual/pansexual he is not gay.

Read what vdeane actually wrote...

[jwolfer]

If he is bisexual/pansexual he is not gay.

Read what vdeane actually wrote...

I did thus the response.. " if a gay male... If he were bi" . a gay person is the the same as a bisesual

[ModernDayWarrior]

If he is bisexual/pansexual he is not gay.

Read what vdeane actually wrote...

I did thus the response.. " if a gay male... If he were bi" . a gay person is the the same as a bisesual

The distinction here is that vdeane was talking about romantic attraction, not sexual. Not quite the same thing. (Also, the Kinsey scale starts at 0, not 1.)

[jwolfer]

If he is bisexual/pansexual he is not gay.

Read what vdeane actually wrote...

I did thus the response.. " if a gay male... If he were bi" . a gay person is the the same as a bisesual

The distinction here is that vdeane was talking about romantic attraction, not sexual. Not quite the same thing. (Also, the Kinsey scale starts at 0, not 1.)

Thanks for pointing out my error.. I have corrected my original post.

I understand what vdean is saying.  But if a person is bisexual that person is bisexual not gay.

[kkt]

You all do know that it's possible to be opposed to the redefinition of marriage and not be a bigot, don't you?

It's a pretty big leap to assume that Mr. Cathy and the Chick-Fil-A ownership are/were bigots because they opposed the redefinition of marriage. I oppose it, and if you call me a bigot, you're a liar.

So which definition of marriage is being redefined -- the definition that included polygamy, or the definition that excluded interracial couples?

[kkt]

There never has been a period of American history when homosexual people couldn't get married.

Much like

In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread.

(Anatole France)

[vdeane]

If he is bisexual/pansexual he is not gay.

Read what vdeane actually wrote...

I did thus the response.. " if a gay male... If he were bi" . a gay person is the the same as a bisesual

The distinction here is that vdeane was talking about romantic attraction, not sexual. Not quite the same thing. (Also, the Kinsey scale starts at 0, not 1.)

Thanks for pointing out my error.. I have corrected my original post.

I understand what vdean is saying.  But if a person is bisexual that person is bisexual not gay.

Believe it or not, but it's possible to be romantically attracted to someone but not sexually attracted to them.  I've experienced it.

[hbelkins]

But if a person is bisexual that person is bisexual not gay.

Andrew Dice Clay expressed a different opinion about 25 years ago. 

[Pete from Boston]

Holy ignoring the demand to get on topic.

Part of the problem with entering any new market is extending the marketing envelope out.  The way large-scale retailing works, you need to build broad familiarity, which costs a lot of money.  In the northeast, with a pittance of outlets, Chik-fil-A does very little mass marketing.  I recall "Eat more Chikn" billboards with a cow some years ago, but can't remember any of their advertising since then.

Yuengling re-entered Massachusetts last year with an enormous budget for advertising and for discounting kegs.  Yuengling was in every bar.  Once that push ended, it retreated to being a minor player in the market.  With another adjustment of the marketing plan (supposedly involving wholesale price cuts, called "payola" by some) it has made a bit of a comeback.  Even as legendary unobtanium, it still had to invest heavily to compete for a slice of a finite pie.

It's a Chik-Fil-A-and-egg scenario, in other words.  Building business requires demand.  Demand requires marketing.  Marketing requires money.  Money requires building business.  Or something like that.

And yes, the controversy has famously been a big marketing obstacle here.  It's a lot of people's first exposure to the brand.

[Buffaboy]

This has surprisingly produced an interesting conversation that I didn't expect. The Tim Hortons example is a good one, and for relevancy to this topic and to stoke the flames, I will add in a 2014 map of where their locations were:



It should be noted that they now apparently have three WA restaurants, which opened this year. Also it should be noted that they have indicated they want to expand into the Albany, NY metro area.

[jeffandnicole]

Since Pete is from Boston, he (and others) are probably familiar with the 99 Restaurant chain.  What he just said in the post above applies very much to 99: They tried to enter the Philadelphia Market.  They had 4 stores in PA near Philly, and 1 in NJ near Philly. They advertised a good deal, both on TV and elsewhere.  There was a simple 99 Restaurant logo at Citizens Bank Park, for example.

While I did enjoy the food a lot, especially their variety, they didn't survive in the Philly market.  Much of that may have been due to what appeared to be a failure to accept the Philly market.  In my local 99, the manager was from the New York area.  Loved the Football Giants; disliked the Football Eagles.  No problem there...except the majority of the people going to the bar area are Eagles fans.  You're going to have to cater to Eagles fans if you want football fans in your bar on Sundays.  In other words, don't turn over half the TVs on to the Giants game. 

99 just had too hard of a time accepting the Philly market for what it is, and kept trying to shove the New York/New England way of things onto their customers.  Eventually, they closed 1 of their PA stores, then shut down the other 4 stores at a later date. 

They continue to thrive in the New England area; they just failed at appreciating the Philly market and what people want.

[Buffaboy]

Since Pete is from Boston, he (and others) are probably familiar with the 99 Restaurant chain.  What he just said in the post above applies very much to 99: They tried to enter the Philadelphia Market.  They had 4 stores in PA near Philly, and 1 in NJ near Philly. They advertised a good deal, both on TV and elsewhere.  There was a simple 99 Restaurant logo at Citizens Bank Park, for example.

While I did enjoy the food a lot, especially their variety, they didn't survive in the Philly market.  Much of that may have been due to what appeared to be a failure to accept the Philly market.  In my local 99, the manager was from the New York area.  Loved the Football Giants; disliked the Football Eagles.  No problem there...except the majority of the people going to the bar area are Eagles fans.  You're going to have to cater to Eagles fans if you want football fans in your bar on Sundays.  In other words, don't turn over half the TVs on to the Giants game. 

99 just had too hard of a time accepting the Philly market for what it is, and kept trying to shove the New York/New England way of things onto their customers.  Eventually, they closed 1 of their PA stores, then shut down the other 4 stores at a later date. 

They continue to thrive in the New England area; they just failed at appreciating the Philly market and what people want.

I thought 99 was a Boston/Cape Cod thing until I found one outside of Utica in New Hartford, NY. I've been there a few times. They make a decent lobster roll.

[jakeroot]

That being said, the subject of this thread is Chick-Fil-A, not the politics or religion thereof, so let's return to that topic, if you guys don't mind.

But the expansion has, arguably, been limited because of said politics and religion in the past. It's discussion here, if kept civil, could be relevant. Or do you disagree?

[Scott5114]

That being said, the subject of this thread is Chick-Fil-A, not the politics or religion thereof, so let's return to that topic, if you guys don't mind.

But the expansion has, arguably, been limited because of said politics and religion in the past. It's discussion here, if kept civil, could be relevant. Or do you disagree?

Politics/religion are simply not acceptable topics under the rules of the board because it is too easy for a civil discussion to go south very quickly.

[Pete from Boston]

Since Pete is from Boston, he (and others) are probably familiar with the 99 Restaurant chain.  What he just said in the post above applies very much to 99: They tried to enter the Philadelphia Market.  They had 4 stores in PA near Philly, and 1 in NJ near Philly. They advertised a good deal, both on TV and elsewhere.  There was a simple 99 Restaurant logo at Citizens Bank Park, for example.

While I did enjoy the food a lot, especially their variety, they didn't survive in the Philly market.  Much of that may have been due to what appeared to be a failure to accept the Philly market.  In my local 99, the manager was from the New York area.  Loved the Football Giants; disliked the Football Eagles.  No problem there...except the majority of the people going to the bar area are Eagles fans.  You're going to have to cater to Eagles fans if you want football fans in your bar on Sundays.  In other words, don't turn over half the TVs on to the Giants game. 

99 just had too hard of a time accepting the Philly market for what it is, and kept trying to shove the New York/New England way of things onto their customers.  Eventually, they closed 1 of their PA stores, then shut down the other 4 stores at a later date. 

They continue to thrive in the New England area; they just failed at appreciating the Philly market and what people want.

I didn't know that the 99 attempted such a reach.  They face an uphill battle in that they are not really very distinguishable on the surface from other generic-American chain casual restaurants (or below the surface–I think I've been to one only twice).  They seem to have grown slowly based on local name recognition here, not so much on being an exciting new concept.  Their experience in attempting to enter Pennsylvania shows the danger of outrunning your name-recognition "supply lines" when that is what you trade on.

One local outfit here that has successfully penetrated the metropolitan Northeast, on the other hand, is Bertucci's.  They were a local joint in Davis Square, Somerville, Mass. in the 1980s (this tiny storefront location, complete with bocce court in the basement, lasted until about ten years ago).  Bertucci's, as contrasted to the 99, offered a new concept that was growing in popularity at the same time it was expanding, namely brick-oven thin-crust pizza.  This, combined with offering distinctly better food and presentation than the Olive Gardens of the world, gave it something distinct to sell.


iPhone

[Duke87]

One local outfit here that has successfully penetrated the metropolitan Northeast, on the other hand, is Bertucci's.  They were a local joint in Davis Square, Somerville, Mass. in the 1980s (this tiny storefront location, complete with bocce court in the basement, lasted until about ten years ago).  Bertucci's, as contrasted to the 99, offered a new concept that was growing in popularity at the same time it was expanding, namely brick-oven thin-crust pizza.  This, combined with offering distinctly better food and presentation than the Olive Gardens of the world, gave it something distinct to sell.

The weird thing about Bertucci's is that, if they have built any sort of brand, have done so quite stealthily. I remember going to a Bertucci's in Connecticut when I was a bit younger and I had no idea it was a chain. There was only one in the area and it looked and felt like a local establishment. It almost seems like that's exactly what they're going for, duping people into thinking they've discovered some great new place when actually there are plenty of others just like it.

[GaryV]

This has surprisingly produced an interesting conversation that I didn't expect. The Tim Hortons example is a good one, and for relevancy to this topic and to stoke the flames, I will add in a 2014 map of where their locations were:

There's a lot more than that in Michigan.  I did a quick search, and found 16 in 4 counties around Grand Rapids, and a lot in Wayne and Macomb Counties.  I'm pretty sure they weren't all opened this year.

[jp the roadgeek]

Sometimes, chains fail when they go outside of their market too quickly. I can think of Ames Department Stores as an example.  They were pretty much New England regional, then I remember going down to Maryland and going into one.  Soon thereafter, they bought out Hills Department Stores, and I even saw an Ames billboard in the background during an interview on TV after a game at the old RCA Dome in Indy.  Soon thereafter, little by little, the chain failed, closing stores from the outskirts right down to its Connecticut base.  As for restaurants, Quizno's is another example of too much expansion too fast.  There used to be about 20 of them in CT about 10 years ago; now there may be 1 or 2 left, as they couldn't catch on on Subway's home turf.  Tim Horton's pulled out of most of Southern New England as well; they took over the old Bess Eaton locations, but substitute Dunkin for Subway in this scenario.  I did see 99 ads at Citizens Bank Park during a couple of games I watched from there; it's alive and well here in CT.

[Jim]

This has surprisingly produced an interesting conversation that I didn't expect. The Tim Hortons example is a good one, and for relevancy to this topic and to stoke the flames, I will add in a 2014 map of where their locations were:

There's a lot more than that in Michigan.  I did a quick search, and found 16 in 4 counties around Grand Rapids, and a lot in Wayne and Macomb Counties.  I'm pretty sure they weren't all opened this year.

And there was one in Fulton County, NY, in 2014 (since closed).  I was also under the impression that Tim Horton's has an extensive presence in western NY.  I don't know what that map shows, but it clearly doesn't appear to be a map of 2014 locations of Tim Hortons.  Is it new Tim Hortons location openings in 2014?

[Pete from Boston]

Sometimes, chains fail when they go outside of their market too quickly. I can think of Ames Department Stores as an example.  They were pretty much New England regional, then I remember going down to Maryland and going into one.  Soon thereafter, they bought out Hills Department Stores, and I even saw an Ames billboard in the background during an interview on TV after a game at the old RCA Dome in Indy.  Soon thereafter, little by little, the chain failed, closing stores from the outskirts right down to its Connecticut base.

You're leaving out one important detail: Ames purchased Zayre, which was a trojan horse of a basket-case company, and it never recovered.*

As for restaurants, Quizno's is another example of too much expansion too fast.  There used to be about 20 of them in CT about 10 years ago; now there may be 1 or 2 left, as they couldn't catch on on Subway's home turf.

Quizno's was the first non-regional sub chain I recall arriving here (following your assertion that Subway is ostenibly local).  There are tons of them now, as belabored in other threads.  If they have faded it may be because they were once the only "new and different," and now there's a new one of those every week.



* An excellent look at the rot within Zayre:

http://www.yake.com/article_shrinkage.html

"At Zayre Corporation, business abuse was not only an accepted practice, it was an integral part of the company's operating procedures and blatantly included in employee training. Store managers were methodically taught these practices throughout the chain. Their eligibility for promotion, or in some cases, for continued employment, was contingent upon their compliance with these practices.

"To a great extent, the store managers' job performance was evaluated according to their ability to manipulate the shrink figure. Some were so successful that stores actually showed large overages in merchandise - a 'positive shrink' - at year end!

...

"It's no wonder that when Ames purchased Zayre Corporation they got both more and less than they bargained for. They acquired a retail operation with seriously depleted financial resources, along with a corporate culture that not only condoned but promoted business abuse."

[jeffandnicole]

Tim Hortons

I'm surprised to see so many counties in the Philly area shaded red or pink on that map, being that I don't recall ever passing one.  Even more surprising when Tim Horton's own website doesn't list locations in that area.

Turns out their 2 locations anywhere near Philly in PA are both in "Stadiums", one in South Philly and one in Allentown.  Yet, the map is colored as if to say "We have a presence in the Delaware Valley...as long as you are going to a ballgame and paying $4 for a small cup".  The next closest locations: Dover Army/Airforce Base, and 2 locations at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds.

Quiznos

They didn't last long in most of the Philly/New Jersey area, due to the saturation of various hoagie places around here.  Calling it a Sub pretty much guarantees failure in this market.  There are some Subways around, but not a whole lot.

99 Restaurants

They did well for a while in the Philly area, but never expanded from the original 5, then they stopped advertising.

My wife got me a 99 gift card for them just before they pulled out of the area.  Their website had instructions on how to get your money back, and we received a check for the value of the cards surprisingly quick after we submitted our info.

[1995hoo]

Are we sure that's a Tim Hortons map and not a Chick-Fil-A map? I'm not aware of Tim Hortons having any locations in Northern Virginia, although some grocery stores sell their K-Cups. TimHortons.com said there are no locations within 50 miles of where I live. There are several Chick-Fil-A locations, though.

[Jim]

Could be: "they" in the post with the map could refer to "CFA" in the thread rather than "Tim Hortons" earlier in the sentence.

It does make a lot more sense as a CFA location map.

[jeffandnicole]

Are we sure that's a Tim Hortons map and not a Chick-Fil-A map? I'm not aware of Tim Hortons having any locations in Northern Virginia, although some grocery stores sell their K-Cups. TimHortons.com said there are no locations within 50 miles of where I live. There are several Chick-Fil-A locations, though.

Could be: "they" in the post with the map could refer to "CFA" in the thread rather than "Tim Hortons" earlier in the sentence.

It does make a lot more sense as a CFA location map.

Nope. Many counties in New Jersey aren't highlighted that have Chick-fil-a's.  My county has at least 4 CFA locations, but yet it's not highlighted.  Same holds true with the adjoining counties.