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Interstate 11 alignment, though Vegas and points north

Started by swbrotha100, October 16, 2012, 09:51:18 PM

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Bobby5280

Quote from: Sub-UrbaniteStop. Building. Interstates. Close. To. Or. Through. Communities.

Nothing in Indian Springs is going to get hurt by upgrading the existing US-95 highway into a freeway. As I said before, there is enough existing ROW to fit a freeway flanked by frontage roads and slip ramps.

A Family Dollar Store, a Big Boy convenience store and a post office building are the only properties that could potentially be affected. The Air Force Base is on the North side of the highway. The rest of the town is South of the highway, built up to the edge of the mountains. There is zero place for a freeway to squeeze in there. The existing highway and military base fences are already a barrier. It's not like an Interstate version of the highway would make it any worse.

As for not building Interstates in or near communities, as long as we continue to depend on motor vehicles to commute, run errands and do other things in highly populated environments super highways are going to be a necessary thing. We need them to move traffic in urbanized metros and we need them to move traffic to/from other metros.


Sub-Urbanite

Freeways shouldn't be 500 feet from homes, period.

https://www.transportation.gov/mission/health/proximity-major-roadways#:~:text=Living%20near%20a%20major%20road,et%20al.%2C%202010).

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 13, 2024, 12:39:19 PM
Quote from: Sub-UrbaniteStop. Building. Interstates. Close. To. Or. Through. Communities.

Nothing in Indian Springs is going to get hurt by upgrading the existing US-95 highway into a freeway. As I said before, there is enough existing ROW to fit a freeway flanked by frontage roads and slip ramps.

A Family Dollar Store, a Big Boy convenience store and a post office building are the only properties that could potentially be affected. The Air Force Base is on the North side of the highway. The rest of the town is South of the highway, built up to the edge of the mountains. There is zero place for a freeway to squeeze in there. The existing highway and military base fences are already a barrier. It's not like an Interstate version of the highway would make it any worse.

As for not building Interstates in or near communities, as long as we continue to depend on motor vehicles to commute, run errands and do other things in highly populated environments super highways are going to be a necessary thing. We need them to move traffic in urbanized metros and we need them to move traffic to/from other metros.

triplemultiplex

But less than 500 feet from an at-grade expressway, possibly with a traffic light, that involves more braking and accelerating; that's okay?  Got it.

Indian Springs isn't exactly Shreveport. ;)
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

DenverBrian

Indeed, the original Interstate model needed wide dual lanes for their entire length, so tanks and military equipment could move freely.

In 2024, why not change the Interstate standard to allow for an Interstate to reduce to surface street through a city and then resume 4+ lanes outside the city limits?

No real need for bypasses in the current era. And it would save all the businesses in the city centers.

silverback1065

Quote from: DenverBrian on June 13, 2024, 05:26:58 PMIndeed, the original Interstate model needed wide dual lanes for their entire length, so tanks and military equipment could move freely.

In 2024, why not change the Interstate standard to allow for an Interstate to reduce to surface street through a city and then resume 4+ lanes outside the city limits?

No real need for bypasses in the current era. And it would save all the businesses in the city centers.

hell no, we already have that, it's called the US Highway System.

LilianaUwU

Quote from: DenverBrian on June 13, 2024, 05:26:58 PMIndeed, the original Interstate model needed wide dual lanes for their entire length, so tanks and military equipment could move freely.

In 2024, why not change the Interstate standard to allow for an Interstate to reduce to surface street through a city and then resume 4+ lanes outside the city limits?

No real need for bypasses in the current era. And it would save all the businesses in the city centers.
Why do you think this is something that's gonna go well with people on a roads forum?
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DenverBrian

Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 13, 2024, 07:40:12 PM
Quote from: DenverBrian on June 13, 2024, 05:26:58 PMIndeed, the original Interstate model needed wide dual lanes for their entire length, so tanks and military equipment could move freely.

In 2024, why not change the Interstate standard to allow for an Interstate to reduce to surface street through a city and then resume 4+ lanes outside the city limits?

No real need for bypasses in the current era. And it would save all the businesses in the city centers.
Why do you think this is something that's gonna go well with people on a roads forum?
Um, because it might mean the difference between a road being built or not?

Since when did Interstates become some kind of sacred object?

SeriesE

Quote from: DenverBrian on June 13, 2024, 05:26:58 PMIndeed, the original Interstate model needed wide dual lanes for their entire length, so tanks and military equipment could move freely.

In 2024, why not change the Interstate standard to allow for an Interstate to reduce to surface street through a city and then resume 4+ lanes outside the city limits?

No real need for bypasses in the current era. And it would save all the businesses in the city centers.

well, this goes back to the point that not all freeways needs to be an Interstate, and US highway system has no minimum standards. For this corridor, I think the US-95/US-93 designation is adequate, but politicians think they're doing things if they manage to snag an interstate designation for a freeway. Maybe if the US highway system is tightened up a bit, then politicians won't feel like missing out if a freeway didn't get an interstate designation.

Max Rockatansky

But "Interstate" is the name brand thing.  Nobody wants generic state highway and US Route designations on freeways...  :-/

vdeane

#1109
I also wonder why the four-lane highway is fine near the homes (which are only about 100-150' away from the 500' threshold mentioned), but it would suddenly be a problem if it were grade separated.  It's not like it would divide anything.  Traffic already moves at free-flow.  It's basically the status quo but safer.  They could even put in a sound wall if the residents want it.

Quote from: DenverBrian on June 13, 2024, 08:16:28 PMSince when did Interstates become some kind of sacred object?
Since the beginning of the hobby?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Max Rockatansky

#1110
I can see why someone living off an expressway style highway wouldn't be too happy suddenly having to detour to an interchange.  I would imagine that is what really drove why certain segments of US 101 in California (especially Prunedale) never got fully closed off.  Safety is a less of a priority versus convenience to a lot of landowners. 

Quote from: DenverBrian on June 13, 2024, 08:16:28 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on June 13, 2024, 07:40:12 PM
Quote from: DenverBrian on June 13, 2024, 05:26:58 PMIndeed, the original Interstate model needed wide dual lanes for their entire length, so tanks and military equipment could move freely.

In 2024, why not change the Interstate standard to allow for an Interstate to reduce to surface street through a city and then resume 4+ lanes outside the city limits?

No real need for bypasses in the current era. And it would save all the businesses in the city centers.
Why do you think this is something that's gonna go well with people on a roads forum?
Um, because it might mean the difference between a road being built or not?

Since when did Interstates become some kind of sacred object?


Music to my ears, I'm probably one of the loudest advocates for not every major highway needing to conform to Interstate standards or even being a full freeway.  I feel as though I'm one of the few voices of reason regarding CA 58 east of Bakersfield never needing to become a full freeway, much less Interstate. 

Bobby5280

I do not agree with the idea of watering down Interstate highway standards so red and blue colored shields can be installed just anywhere. It's bad enough we have sub-standard exceptions of Interstate highway in places such as the at grade intersections along I-10 in West Texas.

Ordinary people drive with their heads halfway up their asses most of the time. When someone drives onto an Interstate highway the general understanding is the highway is always limited access. They're not expecting some Cooter-Brown guy hauling a trailer of junk pulling out onto the main lanes from some dirt side road. They might anticipate that on a not-Interstate 4-lane divided highway with a bunch of other at-grade turns and intersections. They don't anticipate that with a so-called "freeway."

It's funny seeing people get heartburn over an Interstate route being extended thru Indian Springs, despite there being enough room for such a thing. If people in Nevada have an ultimate goal of building an Interstate highway link from Las Vegas to Reno then the upgrades from the NW side of Las Vegas out to points like Indian Springs and Amargosa Valley would be EASY. The hard parts start in the Beatty area going Northward.

I'll repeat my opinion I-11 between Las Vegas and Reno isn't worth building unless its something bigger like a Seattle-Portland-Las Vegas-Phoenix corridor. A "NAFTA" route that can bypass much of California would be quite a popular commercial route.

pderocco

Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 13, 2024, 09:06:04 PMI'll repeat my opinion I-11 between Las Vegas and Reno isn't worth building unless its something bigger like a Seattle-Portland-Las Vegas-Phoenix corridor. A "NAFTA" route that can bypass much of California would be quite a popular commercial route.
On the other hand, it might be that a Seattle to Reno Interstate would make more sense than a Las Vegas to Reno Interstate. At least there are Bend, Klamath Falls, and Susanville between Seattle and Reno. Yerington, Hawthorne, Tonopah, and Beatty are mere specks of dust by comparison.

pderocco

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 13, 2024, 06:35:02 AM
Quote from: pderocco on June 13, 2024, 02:30:24 AMNone of this makes sense unless there is actual residential development going on along that corridor.

There's an Air Force base in Indian Springs (Creech AFB), and the Mercury exit is basically a gate to the whole glob of top-secret stuff Area 51 is part of. So, if nothing else, this particular part of I-11 would be serving the "defense highway" mandate of the IHS by providing an all-freeway route between Nellis and Creech air force bases and Mercury.

I don't know why that should suddenly become a priority, given that it hasn't been since the IHS was invented.

Bobby5280

Quote from: pderoccoOn the other hand, it might be that a Seattle to Reno Interstate would make more sense than a Las Vegas to Reno Interstate. At least there are Bend, Klamath Falls, and Susanville between Seattle and Reno. Yerington, Hawthorne, Tonopah, and Beatty are mere specks of dust by comparison.

It's not about the specks of dust between Reno and Las Vegas. It would be more about creating a high quality road link between cities like Vancouver, Seattle and Portland in the Pacific Northwest and big metros like Las Vegas and Phoenix farther South.

Plus the traffic would be able to bypass California and all the ridiculous crap that comes with it, such as the highest fuel prices in the nation, not to mention soul-crushing traffic levels.

Max Rockatansky

I'm confused why you seem to think that freight vehicles don't US 395 and US 95 already for that purpose?  I've never encountered soul crushing traffic on either highway.  Perhaps maybe visiting these extremely rural corridors for yourself rather than making assumptions is in order?

kkt

Soul-crushing levels of traffic on 395... yes, once.  Immediately after the end of the total eclipse of the sun in 2017 as people who'd come to Oregon to be in the path of totality scadaddled back home all trying to beat the traffic.  A lot better by the next day, though.


Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

hobsini2

Personally, I would be in favor of giving the Las Vegas-Reno-Portland corridor the US 36/I-72 treatment. Have a single highway connecting the 3 metros with it being upgraded as needs come. Build the interchanges only when needed. Otherwise, just have it as a regular route with 4 lane segments, passing lanes in the mountains and "Super 2 interchanges".

As some have said, there are smaller cities in the corridor that could get freeway bypasses (like Bend and Klamath Falls) while most of the corridor would be fine with a 2 lane road with some controlled access. Don't allow any direct access on the highway for businesses and homes. Make a frontage road or have access from a crossroad with an at grade intersection.

I know this is venturing towards the fictional area but this topic is already there.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

Max Rockatansky

The current routing OR 39 and US 97 take more or less functions as a bypass of the original alignment through downtown.  The amount of traffic doesn't really justify doing much to either.  OR 39 towards CA 139 is boasted as the preferred route to Reno from the area.

US 395

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 14, 2024, 09:37:24 AMThe current routing OR 39 and US 97 take more or less functions as a bypass of the original alignment through downtown.  The amount of traffic doesn't really justify doing much to either.  OR 39 towards CA 139 is boasted as the preferred route to Reno from the area.

OR 39/CA 139 is the way to go. It's the road I go on between Susanville and Klamath Falls whenever I go to Salem from Reno.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: US 395 on June 14, 2024, 01:27:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 14, 2024, 09:37:24 AMThe current routing OR 39 and US 97 take more or less functions as a bypass of the original alignment through downtown.  The amount of traffic doesn't really justify doing much to either.  OR 39 towards CA 139 is boasted as the preferred route to Reno from the area.

OR 39/CA 139 is the way to go. It's the road I go on between Susanville and Klamath Falls whenever I go to Salem from Reno.

Yes, and it is a total cake walk at that.  Freight tends to cut over to US 395 via CA 299 near Canby.  OR 39/CA 139 were more or less improved around the same time to permit a handy cutoff route for all traffic.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/09/oregon-route-39-and-california-state.html?m=1

US 395

Quote from: cl94 on June 10, 2024, 11:06:57 PMEngineering constraints and cost. Why spend a ton more money to shave off a few minutes? Same reason I-11 itself isn't a super high priority- thanks to terrain, you may chop half an hour off of a 7-8 hour drive with a freeway. Not worth the many billions it would cost, especially if the feds won't kick in more funding for an Interstate designation. I assume much of the route would get a 75 MPH speed limit at most given terrain, but even 80 wouldn't significantly decrease travel times.

Nevada has much higher priorities than building a freeway along a corridor that sees 3-5k vehicles/day. The segment they're looking at now is cheap to convert, a high-crash corridor, and the busiest part of 95 north of Vegas. And I'm not even convinced the next round of upgrades will make that full freeway.

(personal opinion emphasized)

Yeah. You're probably right.
I will say this though. I do feel that traffic is increasing somewhat on 95. I swear every time I travel on it I see more cars and trucks. I did see there is some road improvement going on from the Millers rest area to the Love's truck stop.

US 395

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 14, 2024, 01:31:07 PM
Quote from: US 395 on June 14, 2024, 01:27:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 14, 2024, 09:37:24 AMThe current routing OR 39 and US 97 take more or less functions as a bypass of the original alignment through downtown.  The amount of traffic doesn't really justify doing much to either.  OR 39 towards CA 139 is boasted as the preferred route to Reno from the area.

OR 39/CA 139 is the way to go. It's the road I go on between Susanville and Klamath Falls whenever I go to Salem from Reno.

Yes, and it is a total cake walk at that.  Freight tends to cut over to US 395 via CA 299 near Canby.  OR 39/CA 139 were more or less improved around the same time to permit a handy cutoff route for all traffic.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/09/oregon-route-39-and-california-state.html?m=1

I remember around three years ago there was some improvements being done on 139 by Adin and I believe by Eagle Lake. The one thing that definitely needs improvement is the cell service.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: US 395 on June 14, 2024, 01:51:30 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 14, 2024, 01:31:07 PM
Quote from: US 395 on June 14, 2024, 01:27:55 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 14, 2024, 09:37:24 AMThe current routing OR 39 and US 97 take more or less functions as a bypass of the original alignment through downtown.  The amount of traffic doesn't really justify doing much to either.  OR 39 towards CA 139 is boasted as the preferred route to Reno from the area.

OR 39/CA 139 is the way to go. It's the road I go on between Susanville and Klamath Falls whenever I go to Salem from Reno.

Yes, and it is a total cake walk at that.  Freight tends to cut over to US 395 via CA 299 near Canby.  OR 39/CA 139 were more or less improved around the same time to permit a handy cutoff route for all traffic.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/09/oregon-route-39-and-california-state.html?m=1

I remember around three years ago there was some improvements being done on 139 by Adin and I believe by Eagle Lake. The one thing that definitely needs improvement is the cell service.

That used to be a major problem on US 95 for a long time between Las Vegas and Fallon.  Since about 2016 it hasn't been too bad in most of those valleys.



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