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Regional Boards => Mountain West => Topic started by: swbrotha100 on February 27, 2015, 03:55:12 PM

Title: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: swbrotha100 on February 27, 2015, 03:55:12 PM
So I was on the ADOT website the other day. According to ADOT, more than 75% of US 93 in Arizona is 4 lane divided highway. Definitely better than back in the early 1990s. Any thoughts? Unlike the Nevada section, I don't see much conversion towards a future I-11 anytime soon, but I guess that could change.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: dfwmapper on March 02, 2015, 05:11:14 AM
The Antelope Wash section will be finished in a couple months. The SR 71 to SR 89 section is starting construction soon. The Carrow-Stephens section (search Google Maps for Gunsight Canyon, Arizona) is in design, and was scheduled for construction in FY2016 but got bumped tentatively to FY2023. The Cane Springs section is a 2016 design, and whenever they get money construction (probably FY2027 or later unless money starts raining from the sky). That leaves the east I-40 interchange, a couple miles on the north side of Wikieup, 20+ miles between the Santa Maria River and SR 71 (i.e. where the Joshua trees are), and whatever ends up happening with Wickenburg. It's good progress, but there's a lot of work to go, and no real plans on what will be done or when besides the handful of projects I just mentioned. Arizona is broke and everything that can be deferred is being deferred to free up money for pavement preservation, so it may be another 15 years before anything else gets rolling.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Henry on March 04, 2015, 10:45:33 AM
I wouldn't hold my breath for a future I-11 conversion either, but the way things are going, we just might get to see it within the next 25 years or so.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: 707 on March 12, 2015, 01:50:30 AM
My main hope is that they get US 93 updated to four lanes as soon as possible. In the mean time, they should redirect at least the truck traffic from Las Vegas to Phoenix down I-17. My family often uses all of US 93 and the congestion along the narrow sections worries me at times.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: 707 on March 25, 2015, 01:38:43 PM
I've subscribed to updates from ADOT. Recently I got an email updating the progress on US 93. Seems ADOT is fairly optimistic that the four lane conversion will be done around 2016. The email goes as follows:

Day work requires minimal delays this week on US 93 west of Wickenburg
Work scheduled Tuesday and Wednesday
                                                                                       
Work continues on the expansion project on US 93 (mileposts 185-190) west of Wickenburg and will require minimal delays this week on Tuesday and Wednesday, March 24 and 25 between 7 a.m. and 5 p.m. as crews place temporary concrete barrier and restripe the roadway. Drivers will be guided with flaggers and stopped intermittently at various locations throughout the work zone.

ADOT began this expansion project in February to widen US 93 between State Route 71 and State Route 89. The $12.5 million project, reconstructing the highway into four lanes, is expected to be completed in 2016.

The work zone will be clearly marked by temporary barricades and signage. ADOT advises drivers to allow additional time to reach their destinations and to proceed through the work zone with caution, comply with the reduced speed limit, and be alert for construction equipment and personnel.

For more information about this project, please call Tricia Lewis at 928-606-2420 or email tlewis@azdot.gov.

----

Don't know if this will help, but the news article below states Arizona approved a $15 Million Environmental Study for I-11 in December 2014. It also seems the proposed extension to Tucson/Nogales for the project hasn't died either.

http://kjzz.org/content/78150/arizona-state-transportation-board-approves-15m-i-11-environmental-study
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: The Ghostbuster on March 25, 2015, 05:14:38 PM
How long before we see Interstate 11 shields along US 93? I'd say it will be quite some time before that happens.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: pumpkineater2 on March 25, 2015, 05:38:31 PM
How long before we see Interstate 11 shields along US 93? I'd say it will be quite some time before that happens.

 Do you mean signs designating the future I-11 corridor?

 If so, there were some signs put up quite a while ago; I believe they were near the hoover dam bypass. There may be others.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1745&bih=903&q=I-+11+future+corridor&oq=I-+11+future+corridor&gs_l=img.3...2348.11926.0.12333.23.7.0.16.0.0.124.733.3j4.7.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.64.img.. (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1745&bih=903&q=I-+11+future+corridor&oq=I-+11+future+corridor&gs_l=img.3...2348.11926.0.12333.23.7.0.16.0.0.124.733.3j4.7.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.64.img..)
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: 707 on March 25, 2015, 06:33:30 PM
How long before we see Interstate 11 shields along US 93? I'd say it will be quite some time before that happens.

Not sure, but my guess is between 2021 and 2026.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: roadfro on March 26, 2015, 01:54:39 AM
How long before we see Interstate 11 shields along US 93? I'd say it will be quite some time before that happens.

Well, the linked article mentions that the Arizona environmental study for the Nogales—Wickenburg portion (includes Phoenix) is going to take 3 years. Add a couple years to finalize design and another couple years for construction, assuming you could build it all at once...means 707's guess of 2021-2026 might be a pretty good one.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: english si on March 26, 2015, 08:39:00 AM
Do you mean signs designating the future I-11 corridor?

 If so, there were some signs put up quite a while ago; I believe they were near the hoover dam bypass. There may be others.
Most of those pictures are the show signs for the press day with the Governors, which were on the Hoover Dam.

The real ones are southbound south of where the Hoover Dam bypass ends, northbound north of I-40 at Kingman and southbound south of I-40 exit 71 (and northbound at Wickenburg?), interestingly they mark out the non-freeway portions of the road, presumably so they don't have to move signs when earlier parts of the project open (Boulder City bypass, Kingman bypass) and can allow proper I-11 signs on the freeway portions.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: dfwmapper on March 26, 2015, 06:25:46 PM
How long before we see Interstate 11 shields along US 93? I'd say it will be quite some time before that happens.

Well, the linked article mentions that the Arizona environmental study for the Nogales—Wickenburg portion (includes Phoenix) is going to take 3 years. Add a couple years to finalize design and another couple years for construction, assuming you could build it all at once...means 707's guess of 2021-2026 might be a pretty good one.
Except that it's likely there will be a decade or two of nothing in between when the design is finished and construction starts because Arizona has no money to pay for it. As it stands now, there will be around 30 miles of US 93 still undivided by the end of 2026, and upgrading those sections would have to be a priority over any freeway construction except the new Kingman interchange. And the environmental stuff on about 20 miles of that will be a fun battle with the environmental groups because of the impacts to the Joshua tree forest. Plus another 5 miles for a bypass of Wikieup.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: splashflash on October 02, 2020, 10:23:35 AM
How long before we see Interstate 11 shields along US 93? I'd say it will be quite some time before that happens.

Well, the linked article mentions that the Arizona environmental study for the Nogales—Wickenburg portion (includes Phoenix) is going to take 3 years. Add a couple years to finalize design and another couple years for construction, assuming you could build it all at once...means 707's guess of 2021-2026 might be a pretty good one.
Except that it's likely there will be a decade or two of nothing in between when the design is finished and construction starts because Arizona has no money to pay for it. As it stands now, there will be around 30 miles of US 93 still undivided by the end of 2026, and upgrading those sections would have to be a priority over any freeway construction except the new Kingman interchange. And the environmental stuff on about 20 miles of that will be a fun battle with the environmental groups because of the impacts to the Joshua tree forest. Plus another 5 miles for a bypass of Wikieup.
https://wickenburgsun.com/news/7464/traffic-switch-on-us-93-near-wikieup-scheduled-for-sept-21/
The three miles of four-laning between milepost 119 to 116 will be completed this fall and traffic has been rerouted to northbound lanes until work on the southbound is completed.   There are not a lot of stretches north of SR 97 still needing twinning; most are between Wickenburg and fifteen miles north of SR 71.  The road between SR 74 and SR 89 is being four-laned with round-abouts. 

Grade separation south of I-40, for interstate status is another story.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 02, 2020, 10:41:55 AM
Considering how wasteful I-11 is planned to be south of Wickenburg I would settle with a fully four lane US 93 to I-40.  Given the US 93/I-40 interchange is being upgraded that would really solve the majority of the remaining traffic problems that were present between AZ 303 and Las Vegas.  I think we’ll probably see an I-11 between I-15 and I-40, the rest I would probably would say is a 50/50 likelihood at this point. 
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: The Ghostbuster on October 02, 2020, 04:34:14 PM
If Interstate 11 is eventually built as presently proposed in Arizona, along US 93 and beyond, I wonder where mile 0 will be. Usually north-south Interstates have their mile 0 at their southern terminus, or their southern entry point. However, I can see Interstate 11's mile 0 being at the Nevada/Arizona border, with mileposts and exit numbers increasing as one went south. That way they wouldn't have to keep renumbering the exits, like they would if mile 0 was at Interstate 11's future southern terminus, wherever that may be.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: 707 on October 02, 2020, 11:23:55 PM
If Interstate 11 is eventually built as presently proposed in Arizona, along US 93 and beyond, I wonder where mile 0 will be. Usually north-south Interstates have their mile 0 at their southern terminus, or their southern entry point. However, I can see Interstate 11's mile 0 being at the Nevada/Arizona border, with mileposts and exit numbers increasing as one went south. That way they wouldn't have to keep renumbering the exits, like they would if mile 0 was at Interstate 11's future southern terminus, wherever that may be.

I second this idea, given the exact length and placement of the route south of Wickenburg has yet to be fully determined. Plus, it would be less expensive to arrange the mileposts exactly as shown on US 93. Given Arizona's tendency to recycle pre-existing mileposts on new highways, I wouldn't put it past ADOT to leave it as is.

Alternatively, while on the subject of US 93 mileposts, I've been hypothesizing that the mileposts are leftovers from the US 466 extension into Arizona in 1935 or from the SR 93/Nogales Extension Pipedream days. Some anecdotal evidence from Richard Weingroff's writings and studies on the Federal Highway Administration's official website seem to hint US 466's entry into Arizona predated US 93 by as much as a few months. If that is indeed the case, it would be against usual ADOT practice to place US 466 as the primary highway over US 93, though documentation as far back as 1939 shows US 466 being the primary designation on the route despite the US 93/US 466 duality being extant. Then when US 466 was decommissioned from Arizona, they left the mileposts as is similar to the case with US 60, as it saved time and money to redo the entire highway by changing the location of MP 0.00. My other guess is the mileposts have always reflected US 93, but due to Arizona's constant ambitions of extending US 93 to Phoenix, Casa Grande and/or Nogales, it made more sense to put MP 0.00 at the Hoover Dam rather than at the southern end. The logic there being if US 93 was extended south incrementally, the location of MP 0.00 would need to be changed quite frequently and it would save a lot of time and expenses to have it the other way around. The earliest ADOT logs available also show all mileposts and associated mileage on SR 93 being a direct continuation of US 93's, which would help support the second hypothesis. If I had to choose one or the other, I'd go with hypothesis number two, given it makes more logical sense than US 93 being subversive to US 466. And if number two is indeed the case, that would suggest which direction ADOT would go with the I-11 mileposts when completed.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: splashflash on October 03, 2020, 03:24:23 AM
Carrow to Stephens, milepost 116 to 119

https://www.spl.usace.army.mil/Media/Public-Notices/Article/1393419/spl-2014-00259-jmr-us-93-carrow-to-stephens/

Cane Springs, mp 106 to 108.9, will be next, and seems to be scheduled for design next year, shown in future projects, and the map shows in 2023 for construction.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: kdk on October 12, 2020, 06:37:15 PM
Pierce Ferry Road seems to be the next up for a freeway grade interchange.  I agree it's the busiest of all the intersections still at-grade between I-40 and the NV state line.

Study info here- https://azdot.gov/sites/default/files/media/2020/09/TW1-US93-PierceFerry-082120.pdf

Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: The Ghostbuster on October 12, 2020, 07:30:10 PM
I would put a full diamond interchange at this location. I looked at the two alternatives from the study, and neither one of them makes sense to me.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: rte66man on October 13, 2020, 11:10:56 AM
I would put a full diamond interchange at this location. I looked at the two alternatives from the study, and neither one of them makes sense to me.

+1. Can't figure out why they don't go whole hog with a full diamond since Alt 1 already get them halfway there. Alt 2 is just stupid. Take lots of land and an expensive flyover for a single directional move.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: kdk on October 13, 2020, 04:21:38 PM
I would put a full diamond interchange at this location. I looked at the two alternatives from the study, and neither one of them makes sense to me.

+1. Can't figure out why they don't go whole hog with a full diamond since Alt 1 already get them halfway there. Alt 2 is just stupid. Take lots of land and an expensive flyover for a single directional move.

I guess they are just trying to figure out what they can get done as fast as possible with as little cost as possible to resolve the backups from southbound traffic turning left.  I agree if you are doing part just do it all, but at least Alt A gets them halfway and isn't a "throwaway" improvement for the full interstate improvements.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: DJStephens on October 13, 2020, 09:03:47 PM
It's Half a diamond interchange.  (Alt 1) Sure seems stupid, though, to build Half of it instead of the whole thing at once.   How much more would it really be to just build the whole thing?  You would have the construction company all set up at that remote location.  At least it's not Design Regressive, though, it does appear to conform to established standards.   
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: JKRhodes on November 15, 2020, 10:34:54 PM
It's Half a diamond interchange.  (Alt 1) Sure seems stupid, though, to build Half of it instead of the whole thing at once.   How much more would it really be to just build the whole thing?  You would have the construction company all set up at that remote location.  At least it's not Design Regressive, though, it does appear to conform to established standards.

A similar situation to Alt 1 was proposed for US 60 at SR 79 back in the 90s when there was a pressing need to address the number of fatal accidents, as the vast majority were attributable to northbound traffic failing to yield to eastbound traffic.

It was refreshing to see good sense prevail when the roadway was relocated and a full diamond was constructed in 2003.

Similarly, it makes sense to go ahead and build a full diamond in this instance, especially when Interstate Standard is the long term goal. Plus there's plenty of room so I'm at a loss as to why they would propose such an asinine idea here.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Sub-Urbanite on November 16, 2020, 12:18:15 PM
It's Half a diamond interchange.  (Alt 1) Sure seems stupid, though, to build Half of it instead of the whole thing at once.   How much more would it really be to just build the whole thing?  You would have the construction company all set up at that remote location.  At least it's not Design Regressive, though, it does appear to conform to established standards.

A similar situation to Alt 1 was proposed for US 60 at SR 79 back in the 90s when there was a pressing need to address the number of fatal accidents, as the vast majority were attributable to northbound traffic failing to yield to eastbound traffic.

It was refreshing to see good sense prevail when the roadway was relocated and a full diamond was constructed in 2003.

Similarly, it makes sense to go ahead and build a full diamond in this instance, especially when Interstate Standard is the long term goal. Plus there's plenty of room so I'm at a loss as to why they would propose such an asinine idea here.


Two theories:

1. They aren't anticipating funds to be available for a full diamond through the next STIP cycle
2. Whoever is in charge of the project was told to focus on safety only.

The half-diamond isn't … bad. It's just weird. I mean, to me it seems like if you're going to do the half diamond, at least make it a full interchange with a left exit with ramps.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Henry on November 18, 2020, 11:07:41 AM
Something tells me that I-11 will be finished to Kingman before the parts south to Phoenix/Tucson/Nogales/wherever are. In this case, it would make sense, especially considering the uncertainty of its route past Wickenburg.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: kdk on November 18, 2020, 06:35:46 PM
The "Carrow Springs" project north of Wikieup is pretty much finished and all four lanes open when I drove this a little over a week ago.  Now there's only one section between Wikieup and I-40 where it's not widened besides the interchange.  It looks like the other- the "Cane Springs" is up next after the widening through Wickenburg.

The only major issues now are still the usual backups at the I-40/93 Beale St interchange, and what's called the "Big Jim Wash" section.

The Big Jim Wash area, mainly southbound has become a real problem over the past couple of years.  With the increasing amount of truck traffic and an incline when heading SB and no passing lanes for about 6 miles, it's become the slowest part of the drive.  Trucks tend to slow to 35-40 MPH because of the incline and NB traffic is to the point it's not possible to safely pass them.  This is the area just immediately south of the original widened section of 93, about halfway between Wickenburg and Wikieup.
I noticed this section popped up as planned for a 2023 widening though.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on November 26, 2020, 05:10:12 PM
Something tells me that I-11 will be finished to Kingman before the parts south to Phoenix/Tucson/Nogales/wherever are. In this case, it would make sense, especially considering the uncertainty of its route past Wickenburg.

That's probably a good assessment; the section from Kingman to the NV line hosts not only traffic originating in southern AZ but E-W traffic from I-40 as well -- it's doing "double duty" in that regard, particularly with regards to commercial transport.   It's pretty clear that ADOT has a game plan for the remainder of the route, at least the part that will basically overlay US 93 -- build as much as they can out to at least Interstate geometry but without grade separations -- job #1 in outlying areas.  The next step likely won't be taken until the alignment between Wickenburg and Phoenix and/or I-10 is finalized; that would include step-by-step buildout to full Interstate standards as well as doing something about Wikieup that'll satisfy I-standards but won't result in the town's demise.  Considering that the I-11 designation only happened eight years ago (infancy by current corridor development standards), the fact that much of US 93 is now a much safer 4-lane facility -- and there's more of the same to come to fill in the gaps -- speaks volumes.  But with the impending I-40/I-11 interchange in Kingman, it would be expected that more attention would be paid (or diverted) to Kingman-NV simply because it effectively functions as its own "SIU" independent of any segment to the south.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: The Ghostbuster on November 27, 2020, 11:55:54 AM
I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on November 27, 2020, 01:21:32 PM
I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.

IMO it'll likely get to Casa Grande to serve as a Phoenix bypass -- but since it's largely duplicative south of there around Tucson to the border, those plans will eventually be eliminated.  Part of the impetus for those was longstanding frustration regarding freeways in the Tucson area with the "solution" being an outer I-11 western bypass.  But the need for extra capacity Tucson-Nogales is obviated by the fact that OEM production facilities south of the border have largely been supplanted by similar Asian (principally Chinese) production, particularly in the area of consumer products.  With that no longer a factor, the expense and disruption of building a duplicate freeway from Nogales to Casa Grande will in all likelihood be enough to sink the conceptual project.  Also, the "Sonoran" corridor from I-19 east to I-10 is likely to deflect much of the efforts of ADOT and local freeway enthusiasts for quite a while. 
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: DJStephens on November 28, 2020, 08:00:58 PM
I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.

Am normally pro construction, but anything south of Phoenix metro for I-11 is simply duplication and waste.   Was under the impression that was the purpose of six laning the entire I-10 corridor between Tucson and Phoenix, anyway.   
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on November 29, 2020, 06:07:18 AM
I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.

Am normally pro construction, but anything south of Phoenix metro for I-11 is simply duplication and waste.   Was under the impression that was the purpose of six laning the entire I-10 corridor between Tucson and Phoenix, anyway.   

Since expansion of I-10 through the Gila reservation seems to be stuck in neutral, a I-11 western Phoenix bypass (Casa Grande-Buckeye-Wickenburg) may well serve as a "relief route" -- functioning as a virtual "x10" southern bypass/shortcut of greater PHX.  While improving the Phoenix-Tucson direct route would, of course, be optimal, at least -- if the I-10/Gila impasse persists, a I-11 swinging around the southern 'burbs would ostensibly redirect commercial I-10 "pass through" traffic.  But seeing as how an actual alignment for the proposed facility has yet to be finalized, it's entirely possible that I-10 expansion could be done well before I-11 makes it that far south. 
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Sonic99 on November 30, 2020, 02:51:24 PM
I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.

Am normally pro construction, but anything south of Phoenix metro for I-11 is simply duplication and waste.   Was under the impression that was the purpose of six laning the entire I-10 corridor between Tucson and Phoenix, anyway.   

Since expansion of I-10 through the Gila reservation seems to be stuck in neutral, a I-11 western Phoenix bypass (Casa Grande-Buckeye-Wickenburg) may well serve as a "relief route" -- functioning as a virtual "x10" southern bypass/shortcut of greater PHX.  While improving the Phoenix-Tucson direct route would, of course, be optimal, at least -- if the I-10/Gila impasse persists, a I-11 swinging around the southern 'burbs would ostensibly redirect commercial I-10 "pass through" traffic.  But seeing as how an actual alignment for the proposed facility has yet to be finalized, it's entirely possible that I-10 expansion could be done well before I-11 makes it that far south.

I believe that ADOT and the Gila River tribe have been working over the past year or so on finally getting improvements to I-10 done. Currently open for public comments.

http://i10wildhorsepasscorridor.com/
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on December 01, 2020, 04:59:58 PM
I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.

Am normally pro construction, but anything south of Phoenix metro for I-11 is simply duplication and waste.   Was under the impression that was the purpose of six laning the entire I-10 corridor between Tucson and Phoenix, anyway.   

Since expansion of I-10 through the Gila reservation seems to be stuck in neutral, a I-11 western Phoenix bypass (Casa Grande-Buckeye-Wickenburg) may well serve as a "relief route" -- functioning as a virtual "x10" southern bypass/shortcut of greater PHX.  While improving the Phoenix-Tucson direct route would, of course, be optimal, at least -- if the I-10/Gila impasse persists, a I-11 swinging around the southern 'burbs would ostensibly redirect commercial I-10 "pass through" traffic.  But seeing as how an actual alignment for the proposed facility has yet to be finalized, it's entirely possible that I-10 expansion could be done well before I-11 makes it that far south.

I believe that ADOT and the Gila River tribe have been working over the past year or so on finally getting improvements to I-10 done. Currently open for public comments.

http://i10wildhorsepasscorridor.com/

Expanding I-10 to at least 6 overall lanes would be quite helpful for interregional travel.  Although a I-11 facility between Buckeye and Casa Grande would function as a Phoenix metro bypass for I-10 traffic, much of the push for its development along that segment has come from Maricopa-area developers who desire to have freeway access to the various housing tracts and commercial zones they're attempting to proffer.  Fortunately, they don't much care if it extends south of Casa Grande as long as it connects with I-8 or I-10 at the southeast end and I-10 and the future northward I-11 at the other end.  But a lot of the pressure -- if not rationale -- for I-11 anywhere south of I-10 near Buckeye -- will dissipate once I-10 is in the process of expansion; development of that segment will likely depend upon the continued influence of land developers with state and local AZ agencies. 
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: kdk on December 02, 2020, 07:02:17 PM
I was under that impression but after driving between Phoenix and Tucson a  few times recently, I see how there is a future need for a bypass even with an improved I-10.
Now I-10 is 6 lanes all the way from the north end of Casa Grande through Tucson.  It's already a heavily traveled route, especially with truck traffic, and felt like a fourth lane is already necessary at times.

This is with current development in the area.  With the future continued suburbanization coming from both directions, as the towns along the route like Eloy, Red Rock and Casa Grande expand this route will become more like an urban freeway, serving the local areas as well as the cross country traffic.  A bypass to the west would allow the cross country traffic to bypass this future congested area.  It may not be truly needed for 20 years but its time to at least talk about it now.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Konza on December 03, 2020, 06:42:40 PM
Whatever happens here, I would like to see SR 85 fully upgraded to Interstate standards and an Interstate number assigned to the route.  If I-11's south terminus is at I-8 or the border at Lukeville, so be it.  If the upgraded SR 85 is a 3DI spur route off of I-8, I-10, or I-11, that would work for me, too.

I see no reason to have parallel Interstate highways from Casa Grande to the Marana area.  Widening I-10 should be sufficient.

I could, however, see the utility of a western bypass of Tucson that would cross I-19 south of the city and swing around and reconnect with I-10 in the SR 83/Houghton Road area, and I understand studies have been conducted at least for the section east of I-19.  Such a road could provide an alternative for long-haul international truck traffic that now goes through central Tucson, and that would be a good thing.  However, with the ongoing aversion to freeway construction in the Tucson area and the city's progressive politics, it's hard to envision this happening anytime soon.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Rothman on December 04, 2020, 12:55:03 AM
I can't believe people are talking about AZ 85 being upgraded.  My father lived in Ajo and Lukeville when he was a kid and the last time I was down there (early 1990s), two lanes was plenty. :D
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on December 04, 2020, 04:08:01 AM
I can't believe people are talking about AZ 85 being upgraded.  My father lived in Ajo and Lukeville when he was a kid and the last time I was down there (early 1990s), two lanes was plenty. :D

I think that the only section of AZ 85 under present consideration for upgrades is that between Gila Bend (I-8) and Buckeye (I-10); much of that is already expressway with some provision for future interchanges.  Since that is the effective "direct route" between the two major metros of Phoenix and San Diego, it's ripe for expansion -- IMO should have been brought out to Interstate standards in the late '80's or early '90's.  South of Gila Bend the traffic is much more sparse, consisting of local traffic to and from Ajo and recreational/fishing traffic to and from the border crossing and the Gulf of California beyond.  At present, no need to expand that facility beyond a few passing lanes here and there. 
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: DJStephens on December 04, 2020, 07:34:01 AM
I can't believe people are talking about AZ 85 being upgraded.  My father lived in Ajo and Lukeville when he was a kid and the last time I was down there (early 1990s), two lanes was plenty. :D

I think that the only section of AZ 85 under present consideration for upgrades is that between Gila Bend (I-8) and Buckeye (I-10); much of that is already expressway with some provision for future interchanges.  Since that is the effective "direct route" between the two major metros of Phoenix and San Diego, it's ripe for expansion -- IMO should have been brought out to Interstate standards in the late '80's or early '90's.  South of Gila Bend the traffic is much more sparse, consisting of local traffic to and from Ajo and recreational/fishing traffic to and from the border crossing and the Gulf of California beyond.  At present, no need to expand that facility beyond a few passing lanes here and there.

It goes back even farther than that.  AZ state route 85 between Interstates 8 and 10 was proposed as an Interstate connector in the late sixties.  As one of the "first" round of chargeable additions, 1968 to best of belief.   
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Konza on December 04, 2020, 04:11:16 PM
South of Gila Bend the traffic is much more sparse, consisting of local traffic to and from Ajo and recreational/fishing traffic to and from the border crossing and the Gulf of California beyond.  At present, no need to expand that facility beyond a few passing lanes here and there.

At the risk of getting political here, if AZ 85 is widened (or upgraded to Interstate standards) south of Gila Bend, Mexico should pay for it.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on December 04, 2020, 08:32:35 PM
I can't believe people are talking about AZ 85 being upgraded.  My father lived in Ajo and Lukeville when he was a kid and the last time I was down there (early 1990s), two lanes was plenty. :D

I think that the only section of AZ 85 under present consideration for upgrades is that between Gila Bend (I-8) and Buckeye (I-10); much of that is already expressway with some provision for future interchanges.  Since that is the effective "direct route" between the two major metros of Phoenix and San Diego, it's ripe for expansion -- IMO should have been brought out to Interstate standards in the late '80's or early '90's.  South of Gila Bend the traffic is much more sparse, consisting of local traffic to and from Ajo and recreational/fishing traffic to and from the border crossing and the Gulf of California beyond.  At present, no need to expand that facility beyond a few passing lanes here and there.

It goes back even farther than that.  AZ state route 85 between Interstates 8 and 10 was proposed as an Interstate connector in the late sixties.  As one of the "first" round of chargeable additions, 1968 to best of belief.   

That was still signed as US 80 back in '68; it was still a rural 2-lane facility for the most part until well after 80 was decommissioned and AZ 85 extended north over its former alignment.  Until I-10 was completed and the direct connector (including the semi-directional interchange) to AZ 85 was built, with the latter realigned over the connector, AZ 85 was signed over the original US 80 route into downtown Phoenix.   The proposed Interstate connector was one of the corridors "washed out" when the 1968 additions were pared down to 1500 miles from the original proposed 4500.  No indication as to what it would have been designated, since numbers for even the corridors that "made the final cut" weren't selected until a year or so later.   
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: DJStephens on December 09, 2020, 08:10:27 AM
I was under that impression but after driving between Phoenix and Tucson a  few times recently, I see how there is a future need for a bypass even with an improved I-10.
Now I-10 is 6 lanes all the way from the north end of Casa Grande through Tucson.  It's already a heavily traveled route, especially with truck traffic, and felt like a fourth lane is already necessary at times.

This is with current development in the area.  With the future continued suburbanization coming from both directions, as the towns along the route like Eloy, Red Rock and Casa Grande expand this route will become more like an urban freeway, serving the local areas as well as the cross country traffic.  A bypass to the west would allow the cross country traffic to bypass this future congested area.  It may not be truly needed for 20 years but its time to at least talk about it now.

Would agree that an eight lane cross section would be useful in the Casa Grande environs.  The most recent "add a lane" appears to have been a cheap job of widening to the inside.  Also was of opinion that the ancient trumpet of the I-8 interchange was to be replaced.  Instead, it lives on. 
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Roadwarriors79 on December 09, 2020, 03:02:05 PM
About 40 miles to go before all of US 93 in Arizona is widened.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/us-93-widened-four-lanes-north-wikieup
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on December 10, 2020, 06:57:11 PM
About 40 miles to go before all of US 93 in Arizona is widened.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/us-93-widened-four-lanes-north-wikieup

I still wonder how ADOT is planning on handling Wikieup itself.  A "pure" bypass, likely with a "biz route" directional exit/entrance at either end and one interchange in the middle would likely decimate any on-road business unless funds were provided the on-road businesses to relocate to the new facility.  It would seem that there just might be room to put 4 lanes (with a narrow/K-rail median and the absolute minimum shoulders to meet Interstate criteria) plus 2 lanes of TX-style directional frontage road on either side could be done with minimal structure demolition or moving (the saving grace of small towns like this is that buildings tend to be widely spaced and set back from the roadway).  Throw in an overpass or two for cross-town access plus making roadside facililties on the opposite side of the freeway accessible from either direction, and a "mini-Texas" situation might be feasible.  Preferably, the freeway should be at-grade, with a few slip ramps, for visual purposes -- accompanied by Big Blue Signs with restaurant/refueling/convenience store listings on them.  Also ADOT should install EV recharging facilities within the fuel stations (we call 'em "Tesla plugs" around here! -- IMO, this is something that should be a feature of all new "aftermarket" Interstates).  Basically, seeing as how Wikieup is the only piece of civilization between Wickenburg and Kingman, it would behoove ADOT planners to maximize localized access here by putting a little thought into how the freeway will interface with what the town needs to remain viable.  And if multiple slip ramps mean I-11 speed will reduce to 55 or so through town, that's simply the "cost of doing business" in this instance.   
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on December 10, 2020, 08:31:43 PM
I still wonder how ADOT is planning on handling Wikieup itself.  A "pure" bypass, likely with a "biz route" directional exit/entrance at either end and one interchange in the middle would likely decimate any on-road business unless funds were provided the on-road businesses to relocate to the new facility.  It would seem that there just might be room to put 4 lanes (with a narrow/K-rail median and the absolute minimum shoulders to meet Interstate criteria) plus 2 lanes of TX-style directional frontage road on either side could be done with minimal structure demolition or moving (the saving grace of small towns like this is that buildings tend to be widely spaced and set back from the roadway).  Throw in an overpass or two for cross-town access plus making roadside facililties on the opposite side of the freeway accessible from either direction, and a "mini-Texas" situation might be feasible.  Preferably, the freeway should be at-grade, with a few slip ramps, for visual purposes -- accompanied by Big Blue Signs with restaurant/refueling/convenience store listings on them.  Also ADOT should install EV recharging facilities within the fuel stations (we call 'em "Tesla plugs" around here! -- IMO, this is something that should be a feature of all new "aftermarket" Interstates).  Basically, seeing as how Wikieup is the only piece of civilization between Wickenburg and Kingman, it would behoove ADOT planners to maximize localized access here by putting a little thought into how the freeway will interface with what the town needs to remain viable.  And if multiple slip ramps mean I-11 speed will reduce to 55 or so through town, that's simply the "cost of doing business" in this instance.

Wikieup is a wide spot in the road with one good souvenir shop/convenience store, two overpriced gas stations across the highway (both of whom charge $1-1.50 per gallon above market price), and a couple of decent restaurants at the north end of town.  Most of whatever else used to exist along US 93 has long been abandoned.

There's no way I can see ADOT not routing I-11 on a bypass around what's left of that town (population about 300).  I stop there on  my way to and from Vegas or Laughlin once or twice a year, and outside of the souvenir shop and a good Chicago-style hot dog stand, the rest is 100% expendable. 

Build the bypass and connect the current 93 to it on both sides of town.  Upgrading the current 93 through town to interstate standards is just not happening.  I'll be shocked if anyone outside of local residents even propose it.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on December 10, 2020, 08:35:52 PM
About 40 miles to go before all of US 93 in Arizona is widened.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/us-93-widened-four-lanes-north-wikieup

So what's left?  The ramps to I-40, a Wikieup bypass, and the Joshua Tree Pkwy section NW of Wickenburg?
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: splashflash on December 11, 2020, 12:24:38 AM
About 40 miles to go before all of US 93 in Arizona is widened.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/us-93-widened-four-lanes-north-wikieup

So what's left?  The ramps to I-40, a Wikieup bypass, and the Joshua Tree Pkwy section NW of Wickenburg?

And about 3 more miles at Cane Springs, between Wikieup and I-40.  https://azdot.gov/sites/default/files/2019/08/us-93-corridor-map.pdf

Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on December 11, 2020, 01:07:02 AM

Wikieup is a wide spot in the road with one good souvenir shop/convenience store, two overpriced gas stations across the highway (both of whom charge $1-1.50 per gallon above market price), and a couple of decent restaurants at the north end of town.  Most of whatever else used to exist along US 93 has long been abandoned.

There's no way I can see ADOT not routing I-11 on a bypass around what's left of that town (population about 300).  I stop there on  my way to and from Vegas or Laughlin once or twice a year, and outside of the souvenir shop and a good Chicago-style hot dog stand, the rest is 100% expendable. 

Build the bypass and connect the current 93 to it on both sides of town.  Upgrading the current 93 through town to interstate standards is just not happening.  I'll be shocked if anyone outside of local residents even propose it.

To me, a good Chicago-style hot dog stand sounds like, in itself, a good reason to preserve a town otherwise "out in the sticks".  Add a couple of decent restaurants and you have a nice place to stop for lunch.  But seriously -- maybe I'm sounding a bit overly empathetic here, but I've seen towns without an additional income basis (such as local agriculture or institutions such as small colleges, etc.) wither and die when bypassed because planners deemed them less than worthy (Canyonville and Gold Hill, both off I-5 in southern Oregon, San Miguel on US 101 in CA, etc.).  Things like that fan the fires of the anti-mobility crowd like nothing else -- innocent folks trying to eke out a living suddenly being functionally displaced by a facility designed to shoot travelers past them at 75 mph!  If I-11 brings a significant overall increase in traffic, potentially the gas stations will be able to lower their prices (and, yeah, I'd consider them to be assholes if they didn't!) with additional sales volume -- so the "vulture" aspect of the town's current status may well dissipate with the coming of the freeway.  But I'm sure ADOT will weigh the cost of ROW acquisition for a bypass versus acquiring the front yards of the adjoining in-town properties.  But I certainly don't share the viewpoint that a town is, by virtue of a small population and physical "outlier" status, intrinsically expendable.   They depend upon US 93 traffic for their livelihood; the "greater good" surely doesn't countenance trashing that for a minute or two of extra driving time if one doesn't make a stop. 

Especially if one can get a real Chicago dog there, complete with a Vienna brand sausage, a healthy dose of celery salt, and German-style mustard! 
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Bobby5280 on December 11, 2020, 11:30:01 PM
Considering what it costs per mile to build Interstate highways it might potentially be less expensive to build I-11 thru Wikieup on the existing US-93 alignment. A bypass going around Wikieup might add as much as an additional mile to the route. That ain't cheap.

Most of the existing properties in Wikieup are on the West side of US-93. Very few are on the East side. The tightest spot is on the South side of town between the Trading Post Motel and the convenience store on the opposite side of the road. There is about 150' of useable ROW between the two properties. Since a freeway exit would be needed for county road 131 nearby the I-11 main lanes could be elevated on single pier bridge structures. That would allow the main lanes to overhang above frontage roads running underneath. Immediately South of the Trading Post Motel the I-11 main lanes can go back to grade, flanked by frontage roads.

Some properties would have to be bulldozed in this scenario, but a bypass would effectively turn Wikieup into a ghost town. I don't think any of the existing service businesses would survive being bypassed. Overall, the prospect of building I-11 straight thru Wikieup looks like an easier project to complete than the I-69C upgrade of US-281 through the middle of Falfurrias, TX.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 12, 2020, 12:46:23 PM
Heh, would get Nothing get a exit on I-11 I wonder?   What about Santa Claus?
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on December 12, 2020, 02:15:06 PM
Heh, would get Nothing get a exit on I-11 I wonder?   What about Santa Claus?

There's nothing left in Nothing but an old sign, a bank of solar panels, and a tall cellphone tower.  Even the sign is ready to fall.  Probably won't get an exit, but maybe an at-grade private access road.

As far as Santa Claus goes, my guess is that there'll be frontage roads built on each side, with exits at Grasshopper Jct/Chloride (CR 125) and/or Mineral Park Rd. (CR 255).
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 12, 2020, 02:31:48 PM
Heh, would get Nothing get a exit on I-11 I wonder?   What about Santa Claus?

There's nothing left in Nothing but an old sign, a bank of solar panels, and a tall cellphone tower.  Even the sign is ready to fall.  Probably won't get an exit, but maybe an at-grade private access road.

As far as Santa Claus goes, my guess is that there'll be frontage roads built on each side, with exits at Grasshopper Jct/Chloride (CR 125) and/or Mineral Park Rd. (CR 255).

To that end I’m curious what will happen to the value of both properties?  My speculation with Nothing is that it will just stay as worthless as it presently is.  Santa Claus on the other hand is close enough to a population center that it may finally find a buyer interested in building a service station.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Bobby5280 on December 12, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Nothing might be a good site for a rest area. And a Nine Inch Nails memorabilia store (joking). Plenty of rural interstates have exits for rural roads. There is a network of ranch access roads congregating at Nothing. So it might not be out of the question for the site to warrant an exit. Limited access exits will be harder to justify for many other spots along US-93. Some can be handled as RIRO style exits. Others will probably be gated, private gravel driveways entering the freeway main lanes -a less costly solution, but less desirable for a road trying to comply with Interstate standards.

Santa Claus, AZ looks like an easy fix. It looks like there is enough room between the existing main lanes of US-93 to build new freeway main lanes. They can build new main lanes, convert the existing lanes into frontage roads and then build some slip ramps and bridges for crossover access.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on December 12, 2020, 10:55:30 PM
My speculation with Nothing is that it will just stay as worthless as it presently is.

Nothing is now a T-Mobile site.  The 200-foot (if not higher) tower has been there for almost a decade.  The old restaurant/bar/whatever is long gone.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: vdeane on December 12, 2020, 11:57:12 PM
Sounds like Nothing lives up to its name.  That said, I can see the reason for an exit, and personally, I think it would be fun to have a sign that said "Nothing - exit XX".
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 13, 2020, 12:21:26 AM
My speculation with Nothing is that it will just stay as worthless as it presently is.

Nothing is now a T-Mobile site.  The 200-foot (if not higher) tower has been there for almost a decade.  The old restaurant/bar/whatever is long gone.

All-Mart and a Rock Shop was what was there.  The All-Mart building used to boast a population of 4.  I haven’t been there since 2012 so that’s news that a cell tower (one that was really needed) is now there. 
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on December 13, 2020, 12:44:11 AM
My speculation with Nothing is that it will just stay as worthless as it presently is.

Nothing is now a T-Mobile site.  The 200-foot (if not higher) tower has been there for almost a decade.  The old restaurant/bar/whatever is long gone.

All-Mart and a Rock Shop was what was there.  The All-Mart building used to boast a population of 4.  I haven’t been there since 2012 so that’s news that a cell tower (one that was really needed) is now there.

Upon further review, I'll estimate that the cell tower was built around 2014 or '15.  In any case, since it was built, cell service in Wikieup and along 93 has been far better.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on December 17, 2020, 07:04:13 PM
My speculation with Nothing is that it will just stay as worthless as it presently is.

Nothing is now a T-Mobile site.  The 200-foot (if not higher) tower has been there for almost a decade.  The old restaurant/bar/whatever is long gone.

All-Mart and a Rock Shop was what was there.  The All-Mart building used to boast a population of 4.  I haven’t been there since 2012 so that’s news that a cell tower (one that was really needed) is now there.

Upon further review, I'll estimate that the cell tower was built around 2014 or '15.  In any case, since it was built, cell service in Wikieup and along 93 has been far better.

That's reassuring to hear; if the COVID situation improves by either the spring or fall of '21 (not going to the PHX area in summer!), I've got a road trip planned to visit an old buddy who moved to Chandler from SoCal a year or so ago, and plan on a return trip up the projected path of I-11 all the way to I-80.  As long as there's AT&T coverage for most of the way, it's all good.       
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: splashflash on March 10, 2021, 07:41:14 PM
Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Henry on March 10, 2021, 08:26:25 PM
Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/
This is great news indeed!
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Plutonic Panda on March 12, 2021, 04:07:41 PM
Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/
This should be interstate quality. Why is AZDOT dropping the ball on this when they know it is already in need of becoming I-11?
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on March 12, 2021, 05:30:00 PM
Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/

This should be interstate quality. Why is AZDOT dropping the ball on this when they know it is already in need of becoming I-11?

IIRC, regardless of its final alignment, I-11 is supposed to connect to the current US 93 north of the 93/89 junction.  The section of 93 in question was never going to be upgraded to an interstate.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Plutonic Panda on March 12, 2021, 05:37:59 PM
Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/

This should be interstate quality. Why is AZDOT dropping the ball on this when they know it is already in need of becoming I-11?

IIRC, regardless of its final alignment, I-11 is supposed to connect to the current US 93 north of the 93/89 junction.  The section of 93 in question was never going to be upgraded to an interstate.
Okay for some reason I thought it was going to be a bypass of Wickenburg.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: vdeane on March 12, 2021, 10:50:36 PM
Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/

This should be interstate quality. Why is AZDOT dropping the ball on this when they know it is already in need of becoming I-11?

IIRC, regardless of its final alignment, I-11 is supposed to connect to the current US 93 north of the 93/89 junction.  The section of 93 in question was never going to be upgraded to an interstate.
Why so far?  The logical place for I-11 to meet I-10 given Arizona's general goals (pork barrel developer giveaway aside) is at AZ 85 and to take that down to I-8 (personally, I'd take it to AZ 303 and then down AZ 303 to I-10; I'd make the remainder a 3di for the purposes of system connectivity to I-17).  That would suggest a divergence point well south of there.  The purpose of I-11 is to connect Phoenix and Las Vegas, no?
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on March 13, 2021, 03:02:10 AM
Upgrades for US93 to be four lanes and roundabouts at the Tegner gap near Wickenburg

https://wickenburgsun.com/news/8159/adot-restores-us-93-widening-project/

This should be interstate quality. Why is AZDOT dropping the ball on this when they know it is already in need of becoming I-11?

IIRC, regardless of its final alignment, I-11 is supposed to connect to the current US 93 north of the 93/89 junction.  The section of 93 in question was never going to be upgraded to an interstate.
Why so far?  The logical place for I-11 to meet I-10 given Arizona's general goals (pork barrel developer giveaway aside) is at AZ 85 and to take that down to I-8 (personally, I'd take it to AZ 303 and then down AZ 303 to I-10; I'd make the remainder a 3di for the purposes of system connectivity to I-17).  That would suggest a divergence point well south of there.  The purpose of I-11 is to connect Phoenix and Las Vegas, no?

In a perfect world, the Loop 303-to-I-10 option would prevail; a "quasi-perfect" solution would still retain the Hassayampa option but shunt over to AZ 85 for the southernmost segment.  But this is AZ, which is, to the dismay of some, still rapidly growing, so developers capable of churning cash (some of which lines political pockets) are still pushing for something at least as far south as Casa Grande so they can double down on housing and commercial property in the Maricopa area (and a diagonal I-11 through that area would make for an enticing I-10 bypass!).  So despite the cost differences of the options that take advantage of existing alignments, the big southwest I-11 arc remains the locally favored routing. 
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: The Ghostbuster on March 13, 2021, 12:50:15 PM
Maybe Interstate 11 could be shunted south of Wickenburg, to make a direct connection with AZ 85 at Interstate 10. From there, Interstate 11 would follow existing AZ 85 along all the to Gila Bend where it would terminate at a freeway-to-freeway interchange at Interstate 8 between Exits 115 and 119. To me, that would be a much more logical terminus for Interstate 11 then sending it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Maybe Interstate 11 could then be extended to the Mexican border near Lukeville, though the existing traffic counts along AZ 85, and the terrain such a freeway would go through would likely make that proposal impractical.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on March 13, 2021, 01:44:26 PM
Maybe Interstate 11 could be shunted south of Wickenburg, to make a direct connection with AZ 85 at Interstate 10. From there, Interstate 11 would follow existing AZ 85 along all the to Gila Bend where it would terminate at a freeway-to-freeway interchange at Interstate 8 between Exits 115 and 119. To me, that would be a much more logical terminus for Interstate 11 then sending it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Maybe Interstate 11 could then be extended to the Mexican border near Lukeville, though the existing traffic counts along AZ 85, and the terrain such a freeway would go through would likely make that proposal impractical.

That makes much more sense than anything else I've read.  There is no need whatsoever for I-11 to exist south of I-8.  It also doesn't need to be routed into the Phoenix city limits to be a "Phoenix-to-Las Vegas" route.  Most people are smart enough to take I-10 west out of Phoenix, then hop on I-11 to get to Vegas.

Neither does it need to go to Tucson and Nogales.  We have I-10 and 19 for that.  A 4-lane upgrade to AZ 85 between Gila Bend and Lukeville would suffice to take care of traffic to and from Rocky Point.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on March 13, 2021, 03:17:46 PM
Maybe Interstate 11 could be shunted south of Wickenburg, to make a direct connection with AZ 85 at Interstate 10. From there, Interstate 11 would follow existing AZ 85 along all the to Gila Bend where it would terminate at a freeway-to-freeway interchange at Interstate 8 between Exits 115 and 119. To me, that would be a much more logical terminus for Interstate 11 then sending it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Maybe Interstate 11 could then be extended to the Mexican border near Lukeville, though the existing traffic counts along AZ 85, and the terrain such a freeway would go through would likely make that proposal impractical.

That makes much more sense than anything else I've read.  There is no need whatsoever for I-11 to exist south of I-8.  It also doesn't need to be routed into the Phoenix city limits to be a "Phoenix-to-Las Vegas" route.  Most people are smart enough to take I-10 west out of Phoenix, then hop on I-11 to get to Vegas.

Neither does it need to go to Tucson and Nogales.  We have I-10 and 19 for that.  A 4-lane upgrade to AZ 85 between Gila Bend and Lukeville would suffice to take care of traffic to and from Rocky Point.

The Tucson/Nogales extension, which would pass several miles west of the present Tucson developmental area, is more of an attempt by regional developers to circumvent Tucson's relatively (by AZ standards) tight land-use policies by providing an additional freeway/artery around which to place their residential and commercial properties out past Tucson Estates.  There is no massive rush from Mexico's maquiladores to U.S. distributors; China and the rest of Eastern Asia have overwhelmed that concept, so the notion of providing more lanes down to Nogales can be chalked up to speculation.  If the concept of I-11 as a through-traffic alternative to I-10 through greater PHX can be sold in the next 20 years or so, then that's what'll happen down to the vicinity of the I-8/I-10 junction.  Otherwise, saving money by running I-11 down to either Loop 303 out around Surprise or straight down the Hassayampa to I-10 and thence down AZ 85 to Gila Bend/I-8 would be doable options requiring considerably less property acquisition and new-terrain construction.   
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: vdeane on March 13, 2021, 11:37:21 PM
Maybe Interstate 11 could be shunted south of Wickenburg, to make a direct connection with AZ 85 at Interstate 10. From there, Interstate 11 would follow existing AZ 85 along all the to Gila Bend where it would terminate at a freeway-to-freeway interchange at Interstate 8 between Exits 115 and 119. To me, that would be a much more logical terminus for Interstate 11 then sending it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Maybe Interstate 11 could then be extended to the Mexican border near Lukeville, though the existing traffic counts along AZ 85, and the terrain such a freeway would go through would likely make that proposal impractical.

That makes much more sense than anything else I've read.  There is no need whatsoever for I-11 to exist south of I-8.  It also doesn't need to be routed into the Phoenix city limits to be a "Phoenix-to-Las Vegas" route.  Most people are smart enough to take I-10 west out of Phoenix, then hop on I-11 to get to Vegas.

Neither does it need to go to Tucson and Nogales.  We have I-10 and 19 for that.  A 4-lane upgrade to AZ 85 between Gila Bend and Lukeville would suffice to take care of traffic to and from Rocky Point.
I prefer that people not have to go out of their way on I-10 to get to I-11, but at least the AZ 85 option would provide a bypass of Phoenix for through traffic.  Both of those are far better than the actual plan of building a duplicate parallel freeway and then replacing I-19 (especially now that they're able to widen I-10).  I-19 is fine as-is.  If it's going to be replaced with anything, it should be I-17, because at least then I-17's exit numbers would at least have some semblance of sense.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: howlincoyote2k1 on March 29, 2021, 01:03:23 PM
Maybe Interstate 11 could be shunted south of Wickenburg, to make a direct connection with AZ 85 at Interstate 10. From there, Interstate 11 would follow existing AZ 85 along all the to Gila Bend where it would terminate at a freeway-to-freeway interchange at Interstate 8 between Exits 115 and 119. To me, that would be a much more logical terminus for Interstate 11 then sending it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Maybe Interstate 11 could then be extended to the Mexican border near Lukeville, though the existing traffic counts along AZ 85, and the terrain such a freeway would go through would likely make that proposal impractical.

That makes much more sense than anything else I've read.  There is no need whatsoever for I-11 to exist south of I-8.  It also doesn't need to be routed into the Phoenix city limits to be a "Phoenix-to-Las Vegas" route.  Most people are smart enough to take I-10 west out of Phoenix, then hop on I-11 to get to Vegas.

Neither does it need to go to Tucson and Nogales.  We have I-10 and 19 for that.  A 4-lane upgrade to AZ 85 between Gila Bend and Lukeville would suffice to take care of traffic to and from Rocky Point.
I prefer that people not have to go out of their way on I-10 to get to I-11, but at least the AZ 85 option would provide a bypass of Phoenix for through traffic.  Both of those are far better than the actual plan of building a duplicate parallel freeway and then replacing I-19 (especially now that they're able to widen I-10).  I-19 is fine as-is.  If it's going to be replaced with anything, it should be I-17, because at least then I-17's exit numbers would at least have some semblance of sense.

Thing is, you can make that AZ 85 Phoenix bypass without involving I-11. AZ 85 is already there, it's already a four-lane road, all you need is a direct connection to I-8 and remove the stoplights near I-10. As a bonus, you could extend AZ 85 up to Wickenburg by way of Aguila Road and Vulture Mine Road, both of which are already paved roads that wouldn't need much improvement to state route quality.

Connecting I-11 to I-10 out in Tonopah just adds inconvenience and unnecessary miles to the Phoenix-Vegas trip, and for those that live in the northern half of the Valley, at that point it's just better to use existing US-60, and now that stretch of I-11 between Wickenburg and I-10 is completely pointless.

The purpose of Interstate 11 is to connect the cities of Phoenix, Arizona and Las Vegas, Nevada. Period. End of discussion.

I will die on this hill if I have to.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: The Ghostbuster on March 29, 2021, 10:08:47 PM
While an Interstate 11 from Las Vegas to Phoenix would probably be long enough, others seem to have different ideas for a longer Interstate 11. Whether or not they succeed remains to be seen.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on March 29, 2021, 10:56:23 PM
While an Interstate 11 from Las Vegas to Phoenix would probably be long enough, others seem to have different ideas for a longer Interstate 11. Whether or not they succeed remains to be seen.

The legal definition of the I-11 corridor extends north to I-80 in northern NV (in one of the more vague specifications of actual location in corridor authorizing legislation); south is another matter due to the machinations of S. AZ developers, who have somewhat grandiose pretensions.  it remains to be seen how all that shakes out -- and who is willing to bear the cost of duplicative corridors benefiting a few well-heeled and well-placed folks!
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on March 30, 2021, 11:33:05 AM
While an Interstate 11 from Las Vegas to Phoenix would probably be long enough, others seem to have different ideas for a longer Interstate 11. Whether or not they succeed remains to be seen.

None of the proposed alignments bring I-11 into the city of Phoenix.  It's not necessary, and it will not happen.  It won't go any further east than the current Loop 303.  Most of the proposals involve the Hassayampa Freeway.

And I'll be absolutely shocked if it ever is built south of I-8.  Pima County/Tucson is completely anti-freeway.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: splashflash on March 30, 2021, 04:05:11 PM
https://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/adot-releases-report-on-possible-routes-for-i-11/article_f15f5655-9e25-5224-8b54-ddd1007815dd.html (https://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/adot-releases-report-on-possible-routes-for-i-11/article_f15f5655-9e25-5224-8b54-ddd1007815dd.html)

Here is a link to the map location of a late-2017 alignment selection report.  Alignment W follows US 93 southwest beyond Wickenburg, continues along US60 to Morristown and then heads straight south where it links to the North Sun Valley Parkway.  There was resistance to this alignment because of its going through Wickenburg and proximity to the Hassayampa River which hugs US60.

Wickenburg wanted I-11 quite close, but not without some bypass.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on March 30, 2021, 09:23:24 PM
https://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/adot-releases-report-on-possible-routes-for-i-11/article_f15f5655-9e25-5224-8b54-ddd1007815dd.html (https://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/adot-releases-report-on-possible-routes-for-i-11/article_f15f5655-9e25-5224-8b54-ddd1007815dd.html)

Here is a link to the map location of a late-2017 alignment selection report.  Alignment W follows US 93 southwest beyond Wickenburg, continues along US60 to Morristown and then heads straight south where it links to the North Sun Valley Parkway.  There was resistance to this alignment because of its going through Wickenburg and proximity to the Hassayampa River which hugs US60.

Wickenburg wanted I-11 quite close, but not without some bypass.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall.  Don't subscribe, and you get today's front page.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Stephane Dumas on March 31, 2021, 04:45:38 PM
https://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/adot-releases-report-on-possible-routes-for-i-11/article_f15f5655-9e25-5224-8b54-ddd1007815dd.html (https://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/adot-releases-report-on-possible-routes-for-i-11/article_f15f5655-9e25-5224-8b54-ddd1007815dd.html)


Here is a link to the map location of a late-2017 alignment selection report.  Alignment W follows US 93 southwest beyond Wickenburg, continues along US60 to Morristown and then heads straight south where it links to the North Sun Valley Parkway.  There was resistance to this alignment because of its going through Wickenburg and proximity to the Hassayampa River which hugs US60.

Wickenburg wanted I-11 quite close, but not without some bypass.

Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall.  Don't subscribe, and you get today's front page.


We're lucky then the Wayback Machine saved that article. http://web.archive.org/web/20201009162132/https://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/adot-releases-report-on-possible-routes-for-i-11/article_f15f5655-9e25-5224-8b54-ddd1007815dd.html
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on May 24, 2021, 06:22:05 PM
Wikieup is a wide spot in the road with one good souvenir shop/convenience store, two overpriced gas stations across the highway (both of whom charge $1-1.50 per gallon above market price), and a couple of decent restaurants at the north end of town.  Most of whatever else used to exist along US 93 has long been abandoned.

There's no way I can see ADOT not routing I-11 on a bypass around what's left of that town (population about 300).  I stop there on  my way to and from Vegas or Laughlin once or twice a year, and outside of the souvenir shop and a good Chicago-style hot dog stand, the rest is 100% expendable. 

Build the bypass and connect the current 93 to it on both sides of town.  Upgrading the current 93 through town to interstate standards is just not happening.  I'll be shocked if anyone outside of local residents even propose it.

Now there's one less reason to drive through Wikieup, and it is - or now was -- the biggest reason.  The Wikieup Trading Post (the souvenir shop/convenience store mentioned above) burned to the ground early this morning.  A total loss.  At least nobody was hurt.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 24, 2021, 07:35:11 PM
Wikieup is a wide spot in the road with one good souvenir shop/convenience store, two overpriced gas stations across the highway (both of whom charge $1-1.50 per gallon above market price), and a couple of decent restaurants at the north end of town.  Most of whatever else used to exist along US 93 has long been abandoned.

There's no way I can see ADOT not routing I-11 on a bypass around what's left of that town (population about 300).  I stop there on  my way to and from Vegas or Laughlin once or twice a year, and outside of the souvenir shop and a good Chicago-style hot dog stand, the rest is 100% expendable. 

Build the bypass and connect the current 93 to it on both sides of town.  Upgrading the current 93 through town to interstate standards is just not happening.  I'll be shocked if anyone outside of local residents even propose it.

Now there's one less reason to drive through Wikieup, and it is - or now was -- the biggest reason.  The Wikieup Trading Post (the souvenir shop/convenience store mentioned above) burned to the ground early this morning.  A total loss.  At least nobody was hurt.

Opportunity for the Nothing Rock Shop to reopen and fill the void?   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on May 24, 2021, 07:51:22 PM
Wikieup is a wide spot in the road with one good souvenir shop/convenience store, two overpriced gas stations across the highway (both of whom charge $1-1.50 per gallon above market price), and a couple of decent restaurants at the north end of town.  Most of whatever else used to exist along US 93 has long been abandoned.

There's no way I can see ADOT not routing I-11 on a bypass around what's left of that town (population about 300).  I stop there on  my way to and from Vegas or Laughlin once or twice a year, and outside of the souvenir shop and a good Chicago-style hot dog stand, the rest is 100% expendable. 

Build the bypass and connect the current 93 to it on both sides of town.  Upgrading the current 93 through town to interstate standards is just not happening.  I'll be shocked if anyone outside of local residents even propose it.

Now there's one less reason to drive through Wikieup, and it is - or now was -- the biggest reason.  The Wikieup Trading Post (the souvenir shop/convenience store mentioned above) burned to the ground early this morning.  A total loss.  At least nobody was hurt.

Opportunity for the Nothing Rock Shop to reopen and fill the void?   :rolleyes:

Or -- the owners of the Trading Post simply collect the insurance (hopefully it was at least adequate), sit on it for a bit, and rebuild wherever I-11 ends up -- either through town or on a bypass. 
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on May 24, 2021, 10:34:56 PM
Wikieup is a wide spot in the road with one good souvenir shop/convenience store, two overpriced gas stations across the highway (both of whom charge $1-1.50 per gallon above market price), and a couple of decent restaurants at the north end of town.  Most of whatever else used to exist along US 93 has long been abandoned.

There's no way I can see ADOT not routing I-11 on a bypass around what's left of that town (population about 300).  I stop there on  my way to and from Vegas or Laughlin once or twice a year, and outside of the souvenir shop and a good Chicago-style hot dog stand, the rest is 100% expendable. 

Build the bypass and connect the current 93 to it on both sides of town.  Upgrading the current 93 through town to interstate standards is just not happening.  I'll be shocked if anyone outside of local residents even propose it.

Now there's one less reason to drive through Wikieup, and it is - or now was -- the biggest reason.  The Wikieup Trading Post (the souvenir shop/convenience store mentioned above) burned to the ground early this morning.  A total loss.  At least nobody was hurt.

Opportunity for the Nothing Rock Shop to reopen and fill the void?   :rolleyes:

Or -- the owners of the Trading Post simply collect the insurance (hopefully it was at least adequate), sit on it for a bit, and rebuild wherever I-11 ends up -- either through town or on a bypass.

The reason we found out about it is that we know the owner, and she sent a text with a picture of the devastation to my girlfriend first thing this morning.  She has no idea what she'll do now, but has requested us to not contact her until she gets her bearings as to what she can and cannot do.  We are going to respect her request.  I'm sure the freeway routing has a lot to do with her future plans.

There has been no news coverage, either in Phoenix or Kingman media, of the fire.  Facebook pictures (the only coverage there's been) show what is left.  I cannot put those pictures here without permission of the owners.

There is, AFAIK, no fire station in Wikieup, either.  At least the gas tanks didn't explode.

Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on July 10, 2021, 02:44:52 PM
At least the gas tanks didn't explode.

Update:  Was up that way this week.  The trading post is rubble, but the Union 76 gas station is being rebuilt.  Not yet open, though.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: KeithE4Phx on July 10, 2021, 03:28:36 PM
Big problem:  US 93 is completely closed from I-40 to SR 71.  One wreck just south of I-40, and another on the two-lane section northwest of Wickenburg. 

The only ways to get between Phoenix and Las Vegas today are I-17 or SR 89 north to I-40 west, or I-10 west (or US 60 west to I-10, if already in or near Wickenburg) to US 95 north.
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: sparker on July 10, 2021, 06:29:36 PM
Big problem:  US 93 is completely closed from I-40 to SR 71.  One wreck just south of I-40, and another on the two-lane section northwest of Wickenburg. 

The only ways to get between Phoenix and Las Vegas today are I-17 or SR 89 north to I-40 west, or I-10 west (or US 60 west to I-10, if already in or near Wickenburg) to US 95 north.

Or via Southwest! :-/  Seriously, the 4-laning of this corridor can't come soon enough, with or without I-11! 
Title: Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
Post by: splashflash on July 10, 2021, 09:54:01 PM
Big problem:  US 93 is completely closed from I-40 to SR 71.  One wreck just south of I-40, and another on the two-lane section northwest of Wickenburg. 

The only ways to get between Phoenix and Las Vegas today are I-17 or SR 89 north to I-40 west, or I-10 west (or US 60 west to I-10, if already in or near Wickenburg) to US 95 north.

Or via Southwest! :-/  Seriously, the 4-laning of this corridor can't come soon enough, with or without I-11!

This seems to be acknowledged in the latest 5 year plan but omits the Cane Springs widening and any widening work between SR 89 and SR 71.  The Tegner to SR89 Gap project remains intact but is almost completed paid by Maricopa County, isn't it? At least the Kingman interchange is there.

From the list:

Kabba Wash Bridge
Project Limits US 93 Bridge 492 milepost 97.5 to 98.5 (1 mile)
Description Design/Construct Bridge Rehabilitation
$4M

Project Name Sycamore Creek Bridge NB, Gray Wash Bridge
Route US 93
Project Limits US 93 Bridge 640 milepost 127.63 to 128.63 (1 mile), US 93 Bridge 641 milepost 128.63 to 129.63 (1 mile)
Bridge Rehabilitation
$1.1M

Project Name S of Nothing - S of Jct SR-97
Route US 93
Project Limits US 93 from S of Nothing to Jct SR-97 milepost 144 to 156 (12 mile)
Description Pavement Rehabilitation
$27 million

Project Name MP 160-180.6, Wickieup
Route US 93
Project Limits US 93 milepost 160 to 180.6 (20.6 mile)
Description Center line rumble strips
$361K

Project Name Tegner St - Wickenburg Ranch Way
Route US 93
Project Limits US 93 from Tenger Street to SR-89 milepost 193 to 198 (5 mile)
Description US93: Tegner Street - SR89 "The Gap": Construct Divided Highway Local ID: DOT18-707 & DOT20-724
$54,981,000

Project Name US-93/I-40 West Kingman TI
Route I 40
Project LimitsInterchange on I 40 at I-40 West Kingman and US-93
Description Right of Way, Design, and Construct TI
$84 million


https://www.abc15.com/traffic/deadly-gamble-update-adot-to-make-us-93-safety-improvements
https://azdot.gov/sites/default/files/media/2021/03/2022-2026-tentative-5yr-plan.pdf