The ANNOYANCES of road work

[jakeroot]

Plus, now everyone has to wait while someone else slams on their brakes to let you in, when they could have been accelerating up to speed.

You mean like when you squeeze into a gap before the merge point, and the car behind you has to "slam on their brakes" to give you some room? There is rarely a merge which doesn't require some sort of braking action by the car being merged in front of.

[jeffandnicole]

Zipper will fail once incoming traffic approaches bottleneck capacity

Actually, quite the opposite. Prior to reaching capacity, traffic will free flow into the reduced lane. After it reaches capacity (or artifically created by a slowdown) is when zipper merges are effective.

If there is one, and only one, zipper merge, then it works well. The problem is if that zipper merge isn't at the end, then it varies, and multiple zipper points occur. Some people move over the second they are a sign saying lane closed. Some move over when they see traffic congesting. Some move over at some random point...and finally, some move up to the very end. Whenever someone merges in, they are going to feel that everyone should do what they did at the exact point they did it.

The way I see it: If you see a stop ahead sign, that tells you to stop at the stop sign. Not at the stop ahead sign. Not at a random point between the signs.  If there's a curve ahead sign, you turn at the curve. Not at the sign. Not at a random point between the sign and the curve.  Thus, when a lane ends, merge at the end of the lane. The only difference in my example is of traffic isn't congested, I'll move over earlier. 

[StogieGuy7]

Pet peeve #1: that sign that says "EXPECT DELAYS" just as you enter a work zone.  Unless you drive by that site every day (and they're often on long stretches of interstate far from home), by the time you see that message, it's too late to "expect a delay".  It just comes off as a bit arrogant as in, "we're doing this, we don't care how much traffic you're stuck in, and if you don't like it: piss off!"

A second one is the work zone that closes a lane for miles where there is work only on a 0.1 mile stretch involving 2 guys in a pickup truck. 

And, lastly: the artificially low work zone speed limits accompanied by Officer Friendly hiding behind a Jersey barrier waiting to give you a massive ticket.  Whether anyone is actually working there or not.   

[kkt]

"Expect Delays" is the agency motto of WashDOT.

[wanderer2575]

How long it takes!!  They built the entire Ohio Turnpike in just over three years, but it takes MDOT two years to rebuild a five-mile stretch of I-75 near Monroe??

Conditions were way different back when roads were built.  OSHA didn't exist.  Fair work practices didn't exist.  If they wanted you to work 14 hours a day 7 days a week, you either worked it, or gave up your job to someone that would.  If someone died, it was just part of the job.

They weren't also worried about building a roadway while trying to safely get thousands of other cars thru the same area at the same time.

Fair point, taken, about work conditions.  Maintaining existing traffic, dubious depending on the project.  On the Monroe project, all traffic is on one side of the freeway separated from the other (work) side by a concrete Jersey barrier, and no temporary crossover exit/entrance ramps.  Taking a full construction season to do a five-mile stretch on one side is ridiculous.

[doorknob60]

"Expect Delays" is the agency motto of WashDOT.

Reminds me of probably the worst road work related traffic I've been in. One summer (this was probably like 5 years ago), driving from Bend to the Mt. Vernon, WA area (North of Seattle). Instead of going through Portland, we decided to take US-97 up through Yakima and take I-90. This would have worked great...until we hit road work. I-90 reduced to 1 lane each way approaching Snoqualmie Pass (don't remember exactly where it was, but in that general area). Brought traffic to a standstill probably a mile or more before the merge. I estimate it probably added about an hour to the trip.

We took I-5 back.

[paulthemapguy]

How long it takes!!  They built the entire Ohio Turnpike in just over three years, but it takes MDOT two years to rebuild a five-mile stretch of I-75 near Monroe??

Conditions were way different back when roads were built.  OSHA didn't exist.  Fair work practices didn't exist.  If they wanted you to work 14 hours a day 7 days a week, you either worked it, or gave up your job to someone that would.  If someone died, it was just part of the job.

They weren't also worried about building a roadway while trying to safely get thousands of other cars thru the same area at the same time.

More importantly, road construction is a lot harder to do when there's already ambient traffic ON that road 

[Max Rockatansky]

Saw these signs in South Carolina a couple times the past 5 years.  I just find them preachy as all hell....guess they do the job getting your attention.

[1995hoo]

Exactly.  People flying by the stopped traffic and butting in at the last second while everyone else decided to merge earlier is essentially the OPPOSITE of a zipper merge because you're artificially increasing the number of merge points.  Plus, now everyone has to wait while someone else slams on their brakes to let you in, when they could have been accelerating up to speed.  Now, for the Church of the Late Mergers, this might be OK, akin to God punishing the sinners for merging at the wrong point, but I find it to be quite rude.

Here's how I do it:
-If no traffic: merge close to end of lane
-If traffic: merge when I get a gap in the other lane big enough that I do not affect the other drivers there
-If a parking lot: merge wherever the zipper merge by consensus happens to be

The problem with the "merge early" concept is that there is never a "merge by consensus" point. Everyone will have his own idea of what the correct spot is. That doesn't work.

[thenetwork]

How long it takes!!  They built the entire Ohio Turnpike in just over three years, but it takes MDOT two years to rebuild a five-mile stretch of I-75 near Monroe??

Conditions were way different back when roads were built.  OSHA didn't exist.  Fair work practices didn't exist.  If they wanted you to work 14 hours a day 7 days a week, you either worked it, or gave up your job to someone that would.  If someone died, it was just part of the job.

They weren't also worried about building a roadway while trying to safely get thousands of other cars thru the same area at the same time.

Fair point, taken, about work conditions.  Maintaining existing traffic, dubious depending on the project.  On the Monroe project, all traffic is on one side of the freeway separated from the other (work) side by a concrete Jersey barrier, and no temporary crossover exit/entrance ramps.  Taking a full construction season to do a five-mile stretch on one side is ridiculous.

re: the I-75 work...Where on I-75 are they "rebuilding" the freeway.  I remember when they practically rebuilt all of I-75 in Southern Monroe County in the late 80s.  I thought the rebuilt pavement would easily last 30-40+ years.

[Katavia]

stupid closures that make no sense

[authenticroadgeek]

Freeway work in big cities. Not only is it visually unappealing, but it's really complicated to drive on. Even on local roads, the neighborhood I lived in for the last 5 months had road work on my street, and the entire neighborhood, THE WHOLE TIME. Some roads were completely one-way while road work was being done

on pipes. I realize this stuff needs maintenance, but why go to this extent for stupid pipes? You could have just moved the pipes on only the outsides of major roads so you didn't have to dig right into the road next time!

[jeffandnicole]

Freeway work in big cities. Not only is it visually unappealing, but it's really complicated to drive on. Even on local roads, the neighborhood I lived in for the last 5 months had road work on my street, and the entire neighborhood, THE WHOLE TIME. Some roads were completely one-way while road work was being done

on pipes. I realize this stuff needs maintenance, but why go to this extent for stupid pipes? You could have just moved the pipes on only the outsides of major roads so you didn't have to dig right into the road next time!

Because you don't know what already exists under the road or ground in that area.  And depending on the city or town, if it's under the sidewalk, they have to make a pedestrian walkway available, which often times means closing a lane in the street anyway.

[bmorrill]

"Expect Delays" is the agency motto of WashDOT.

And the orange "Road Work Ahead" sign is the state flower of Oklahoma.

[vdeane]

Plus, now everyone has to wait while someone else slams on their brakes to let you in, when they could have been accelerating up to speed.

You mean like when you squeeze into a gap before the merge point, and the car behind you has to "slam on their brakes" to give you some room? There is rarely a merge which doesn't require some sort of braking action by the car being merged in front of.

I won't ever take a gap that small for a merge unless I have no other choice.  It's also rude.  Basically, if someone has to let you in, it's rude.

Exactly.  People flying by the stopped traffic and butting in at the last second while everyone else decided to merge earlier is essentially the OPPOSITE of a zipper merge because you're artificially increasing the number of merge points.  Plus, now everyone has to wait while someone else slams on their brakes to let you in, when they could have been accelerating up to speed.  Now, for the Church of the Late Mergers, this might be OK, akin to God punishing the sinners for merging at the wrong point, but I find it to be quite rude.

Here's how I do it:
-If no traffic: merge close to end of lane
-If traffic: merge when I get a gap in the other lane big enough that I do not affect the other drivers there
-If a parking lot: merge wherever the zipper merge by consensus happens to be

The problem with the "merge early" concept is that there is never a "merge by consensus" point. Everyone will have his own idea of what the correct spot is. That doesn't work.

Drive on the Northway in rush hour.  Happens all the time with acceleration lanes: 90% of the traffic merges at the same spot right where the ramp makes contact with the travel lane, the remaining 10% interrupts everyone's accelerating away from the merge-caused backup to butt in at the end.  Sure, it's an acceleration lane and not a work zone lane closure, but it's the same principle.

I'm not an "early merger" but neither am I a "late merger".  I am a "'merge wherever is least disruptive for traffic flow'-er".  Judging by the comments, I guess I'm the only one.

[jeffandnicole]

Drive on the Northway in rush hour.  Happens all the time with acceleration lanes: 90% of the traffic merges at the same spot right where the ramp makes contact with the travel lane, the remaining 10% interrupts everyone's accelerating away from the merge-caused backup to butt in at the end.  Sure, it's an acceleration lane and not a work zone lane closure, but it's the same principle.

Even worse...the person that wants to merge over before the ramp even makes contact with the travel lane, crossing the solid line. 

[vdeane]

When it's backed up enough, that happens too, though when it does it's because someone didn't want to wait for traffic to creep forward the one car length needed so that he could merge into the same spot as the guy in front.

[paulthemapguy]

Driving over steel plates covering up a trench across the road.  Or in insane cases, plywood.

"Expect Delays" is the agency motto of WashDOT.

And the orange "Road Work Ahead" sign is the state flower of Oklahoma.

[Mr_Northside]

The problem with the "merge early" concept is that there is never a "merge by consensus" point. Everyone will have his own idea of what the correct spot is. That doesn't work.

That's one of the things PennDOT has been doing pretty well in most construction zones where 2 lanes reduce to 1... They'll have an advance (if not more than one) sign stating "Use Both Lanes Until Merge Point", then at the merge point a sign that will say "Merge Here.  Take Your Turn".

I don't know that I've seen signs like this in general (not in a construction zone), but in heavy traffic areas, I wouldn't mind.

[jakeroot]

In cases where two lanes merge into one, what if both lanes had arrows pointing towards the other, indicating an equal merge? That way, cars wouldn't feel like they're cutting in at the last second.

[briantroutman]

I think PennDOT's approach is a step in the right direction but not enough.

In another thread some time ago, I suggested the zipper merge might work better if the merge point was very clearly indicated (both with a sign and a transverse pavement marking) and a flashing signal indicating when zipper merge enforcement was in effect.

[Scott5114]

What drives me nuts is when there's concrete barriers up right up against the travel lanes. Going through a concrete chute at speed feels very unsafe, and this is usually combined with narrow lanes, uneven pavement and shitty pavement markings. I know it's to protect highway workers, but it always feels like if one car drifts too far in one direction or the other it could lead to a very bad chain reaction very quickly because there's no place to dodge to in order to avoid a collision.

This is often combined with inadequate merging sites.

[Bruce]

I think PennDOT's approach is a step in the right direction but not enough.

In another thread some time ago, I suggested the zipper merge might work better if the merge point was very clearly indicated (both with a sign and a transverse pavement marking) and a flashing signal indicating when zipper merge enforcement was in effect.

At that point, it would be beneficial to install a ramp meter signal. We have plenty of 2-lane ramp meters here in Seattle and they work pretty well to control traffic flow. Some are even 3 lanes, with the extra as a HOV bypass.

[renegade]

How long it takes!!  They built the entire Ohio Turnpike in just over three years, but it takes MDOT two years to rebuild a five-mile stretch of I-75 near Monroe??

Conditions were way different back when roads were built.  OSHA didn't exist.  Fair work practices didn't exist.  If they wanted you to work 14 hours a day 7 days a week, you either worked it, or gave up your job to someone that would.  If someone died, it was just part of the job.

They weren't also worried about building a roadway while trying to safely get thousands of other cars thru the same area at the same time.

Fair point, taken, about work conditions.  Maintaining existing traffic, dubious depending on the project.  On the Monroe project, all traffic is on one side of the freeway separated from the other (work) side by a concrete Jersey barrier, and no temporary crossover exit/entrance ramps.  Taking a full construction season to do a five-mile stretch on one side is ridiculous.

re: the I-75 work...Where on I-75 are they "rebuilding" the freeway.  I remember when they practically rebuilt all of I-75 in Southern Monroe County in the late 80s.  I thought the rebuilt pavement would easily last 30-40+ years.

  Nothing done in Michigan lasts 30-40+ years!

Remember, we are the state where someone thought it would be a good idea to build a thirty-mile long freeway with zero expansion joints.  I-275 was nearly pulverized into gravel within ten years, and it took them nearly ten more years to repair it.  Now, the headache has shifted to the northern end of I-275, last rebuilt fifteen years ago, but they expect to completely rebuild the entire five-mile stretch this year.

[jakeroot]

What drives me nuts is when there's concrete barriers up right up against the travel lanes. Going through a concrete chute at speed feels very unsafe, and this is usually combined with narrow lanes, uneven pavement and shitty pavement markings. I know it's to protect highway workers, but it always feels like if one car drifts too far in one direction or the other it could lead to a very bad chain reaction very quickly because there's no place to dodge to in order to avoid a collision.

I've always found said stretches to be rather exhilarating. Safe? Probably not. But fun? If you like the feel of driving way faster than you are, definitely.