Tolling I-80 Not Dead Yet

[Scott5114]

Someone needs to smack Ed Rendell on the head with a rolled up newspaper. NO. NO. STOP THAT. QUIT TRYING TO TOLL I-80. BAD RENDELL. BAD. NO.

[mightyace]

Someone needs to smack Ed Rendell on the head with a rolled up newspaper. NO. NO. STOP THAT. QUIT TRYING TO TOLL I-80. BAD RENDELL. BAD. NO.

That's interesting comparing Gov. Rendell to a bad dog.  But, I think that it is disrespectful, to dogs that is! 

[Alex]

Pa. resurrects plans to put tolls on I-80

[PAHighways]

Two Sides Rev Their Engines for New I-80 Toll Attempt

[mightyace]

Even as a vocal opponent of the proposal myself, I find the "study" relating to "increased accidents" on side roads used by travellers to avoid tolls a bit of a stretch.

[Roadgeek Adam]

Remind me to get the torches and pitchforks, and maybe a poster of Ed Rendell with bullet holes

[yanksfan6129]

I love Ed Rendell, why do we need the pitchforks!?

[leifvanderwall]

They are just excited in Wyoming to toll I-80 over there. Which state do you think will make more money tolling I-80? Wyoming or Pennsylvania?

[Roadgeek Adam]

I love Ed Rendell, why do we need the pitchforks!?

Tolling 80 is his fight, so if he wins, we know who to protest

[froggie]

They are just excited in Wyoming to toll I-80 over there. Which state do you think will make more money tolling I-80? Wyoming or Pennsylvania?

Give Wyoming at least a little credit.  Unlike Pennsylvania, they're only planning on using I-80 tolls to maintain/improve I-80.

[mightyace]

They are just excited in Wyoming to toll I-80 over there. Which state do you think will make more money tolling I-80? Wyoming or Pennsylvania?

Give Wyoming at least a little credit.  Unlike Pennsylvania, they're only planning on using I-80 tolls to maintain/improve I-80.

Yes, I would not be so opposed to tolling I-80 in PA if the money would only be used to maintain I-80!

[PAHighways]

Report Backs I-80 Toll Foes

[TXtoNJ]

They are just excited in Wyoming to toll I-80 over there. Which state do you think will make more money tolling I-80? Wyoming or Pennsylvania?

Give Wyoming at least a little credit.  Unlike Pennsylvania, they're only planning on using I-80 tolls to maintain/improve I-80.

Yes, I would not be so opposed to tolling I-80 in PA if the money would only be used to maintain I-80!

It would be nice if raising fuel taxes were politically feasible, wouldn't it be?

[mightyace]

They are just excited in Wyoming to toll I-80 over there. Which state do you think will make more money tolling I-80? Wyoming or Pennsylvania?

Give Wyoming at least a little credit.  Unlike Pennsylvania, they're only planning on using I-80 tolls to maintain/improve I-80.

Yes, I would not be so opposed to tolling I-80 in PA if the money would only be used to maintain I-80!

It would be nice if raising fuel taxes were politically feasible, wouldn't it be?

IMHO
Yes, a lot of this could be avoided if fuel taxes were done like a sales tax (a percentage of the gas price) rather than a fixed amount per gallon.  I know some states may do it that way, but they're in the minority.  I also realize that this wouldn't be a cure-all if transportation needs outstripped the growth in revenue or if gas prices dropped substantially, but it would eliminate the element of inflation knocking down the value of gas tax dollars collected.

[Mr_Northside]

As much as I'd hate to pay more at the pump, having a gas tax that more accurately reflects inflation is probably something that is needed.

But I completely disagree with doing fuel taxes like a sales tax. If some shit goes down in the Middle East, or some natural disaster that disrupts production and spikes prices, then that "pinch" is compounded by the fact that the tax will be higher too.
I also think that a fixed-per-gallon would create a more stable/predictable budget...  Granted, a state can't know how much gas will be purchased, since there are times when travel is way down, and with an increasing number of more fuel-efficent vehicles; but I think that would still be more stable than the tax depending on gas prices.
With the exception of some sort of true mileage-based tax (And I'm really against the notion of some sort of GPS device tracking where I drive for road-tax purposes), a per-gallon tax that reflects inflation is probably the best way to go. (At least that's, like, my opinion, man)

As for I-80, while I'm not all that gung-ho about tolling it, I can't say that I'm against it either.  If I have to pay over $8 to use "our" E-W interstate (I-76/PA Tpk) to get 100 miles (Monroeville <-> Breezewood), I'm not going to shed any tears if people in the Northern part of the state have to shell out $8 for 100 miles of I-80 either.

[hbelkins]

As for I-80, while I'm not all that gung-ho about tolling it, I can't say that I'm against it either.  If I have to pay over $8 to use "our" E-W interstate (I-76/PA Tpk) to get 100 miles (Monroeville <-> Breezewood), I'm not going to shed any tears if people in the Northern part of the state have to shell out $8 for 100 miles of I-80 either.

I understand the logic of tolling a road used primarily by long-distance, out-of-state traffic. The logic is similar to instituting a local lodging tax. That tax is paid by out-of-towners who spend the night and is used to fund local projects and services used by the local populace. I've got no problems with that. If you can extract money from passers-through who are using your facility but not contributing to its upkeep, more power to you.

Since I-80 really connects no major Pennsylvania towns and is mostly a through route for motorists driving between NYC and the midwest, it's a prime candidate for tolls.

[PAHighways]

If I have to pay over $8 to use "our" E-W interstate (I-76/PA Tpk) to get 100 miles (Monroeville <-> Breezewood), I'm not going to shed any tears if people in the Northern part of the state have to shell out $8 for 100 miles of I-80 either.

A friend of mine who lives near Clarion was complaining to me about the idea of putting tolls on 80.  I told him "Cry me a river.  I currently have to pay a toll to go east or west."  He has E-ZPass for his and his wife's monthly trek to the "big city," so he is good to go for a tolled 80.

[mightyace]

A friend of mine who lives near Clarion was complaining to me about the idea of putting tolls on 80.  I told him "Cry me a river.  I currently have to pay a toll to go east or west."  He has E-ZPass for his and his wife's monthly trek to the "big city," so he is good to go for a tolled 80.

Once again, I have only a small problem with paying tolls on I-80 to keep up I-80 but why the %$$##^%#$$#$ should the people of rural northern Pennsylania pay so that the folks in Philly and Pittsburgh can ridge their trolleys and busses?????

But, if PA wants tolls on I-80 they should have built it that way in the first place!  Since they didn't tough <manure>! 

[mightyace]

I understand the logic of tolling a road used primarily by long-distance, out-of-state traffic. The logic is similar to instituting a local lodging tax. That tax is paid by out-of-towners who spend the night and is used to fund local projects and services used by the local populace. I've got no problems with that. If you can extract money from passers-through who are using your facility but not contributing to its upkeep, more power to you.

Since I-80 really connects no major Pennsylvania towns and is mostly a through route for motorists driving between NYC and the midwest, it's a prime candidate for tolls.

I have a big problem with soaking travelers simply because they're traveling.  What you say when you do that is "We don't want you!"

And, when I travel I-80, I have to buy gas along the way so how the #(*)#@**#*# am I not helping to pay for it????

EDIT:
And, by the way, if they ever succeed in this tolling project, I'll travel to my Dad's house via I-81 through Virginia and up US 11-15.  The mileage is virtually identical, motels are cheaper and no $20 in tolls.  So, the good people of Virginia will get my money instead of those in Sharon, Clarion, Dubois, Clearfield, etc. or Ohio or Kentucky.  So, I'll have only 120 miles in PA instead of 240 and will spend less in the state when I'm there.  Way to help the economy. 

[agentsteel53]

I have a big problem with soaking travelers simply because they're traveling.  What you say when you do that is "We don't want you!"

as opposed to not wanting the locals?  Someone has to end up "unwanted" to pay for road improvements.

[mightyace]

I have a big problem with soaking travelers simply because they're traveling.  What you say when you do that is "We don't want you!"

as opposed to not wanting the locals?  Someone has to end up "unwanted" to pay for road improvements.

No, the locals and the travelers should be treated identically.

As Declaration of Independence says, "... that all men are created equal ..."

And, a tax/fee targeting travelers is "taxation without representation."

Why the #*#**# did we bother to break away from England if we're throwing away everything they fought for?

[PAHighways]

Once again, I have only a small problem with paying tolls on I-80 to keep up I-80 but why the %$$##^%#$$#$ should the people of rural northern Pennsylania pay so that the folks in Philly and Pittsburgh can ridge their trolleys and busses?????

Why should I pay more in gas than I already do as has been suggested?

Transit was only a part of the reason for implementing tolls.  The main reason was to fund PennDOT's plans to rebuild the 22,300-some structurally deficient bridges across the state so an I-35W doesn't happen here.

But, if PA wants tolls on I-80 they should have built it that way in the first place!  Since they didn't tough <manure>! 

They wanted to build it that way originally (Sharon to Stroudsburg Lateral Connection), but the lure of 90% Federal funds was too much.

[mightyace]

Once again, I have only a small problem with paying tolls on I-80 to keep up I-80 but why the %$$##^%#$$#$ should the people of rural northern Pennsylania pay so that the folks in Philly and Pittsburgh can ridge their trolleys and busses?????

Why should I pay more in gas than I already do as has been suggested?

I can understand that, but everyone in PA would be doing that.

Transit was only a part of the reason for implementing tolls.  The main reason was to fund PennDOT's plans to rebuild the 22,300-some structurally deficient bridges across the state so an I-35W doesn't happen here.

But, still, why should people in Bloomsburg, Sharon, Williamsport, etc. have to pay so that someone in Philadelphia or Pittsburgh can have an easier way to work?

But, if PA wants tolls on I-80 they should have built it that way in the first place!  Since they didn't tough <manure>! 

They wanted to build it that way originally (Sharon to Stroudsburg Lateral Connection), but the lure of 90% Federal funds was too much.

Well, they made their bed 50+ years ago, and now they don't want to lay in it anymore?

[hbelkins]

And, by the way, if they ever succeed in this tolling project, I'll travel to my Dad's house via I-81 through Virginia and up US 11-15.  The mileage is virtually identical, motels are cheaper and no $20 in tolls.  So, the good people of Virginia will get my money instead of those in Sharon, Clarion, Dubois, Clearfield, etc. or Ohio or Kentucky.  So, I'll have only 120 miles in PA instead of 240 and will spend less in the state when I'm there.  Way to help the economy. 

And you'll get to enjoy truck-choked I-81, Virginia's 65 mph speed limit instead of 70 mph in other states, and have to endure Virginia's ban on radar detectors.

[agentsteel53]

No, the locals and the travelers should be treated identically.

As Declaration of Independence says, "... that all men are created equal ..."

And, a tax/fee targeting travelers is "taxation without representation."

Why the #*#**# did we bother to break away from England if we're throwing co everything they fought for?

agreed on the principles of the Declaration, but I do believe Thomas Jefferson and friends would have noted the necessity of tolling people from out of state for using the in-state roads.  If a truck is driving from Seattle to New York, then they should pay for the concrete they wear down in all the intervening roads.