Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

[CanesFan27]

I figure this thread is better suited for the Southeast forum since most of the route is in NC. Ok, let me kick this off with a question. Does anybody know if NCDOT has put up any "Future I-87" signs along US-64 and/or US-17? I realize that I-495/Future I-495 hasn't been officially decommissioned from US-64 yet, but I figured I'd ask since NCDOT seemingly jumped the gun and put up Future I-42 signs on US-70 without FHWA approval (unless it was quietly approved), so it wouldn't surprise me if NCDOT got ahead of themselves again. I'm not expecting any Future I-87 signs on US-17 in VA since VDOT never applied to AASHTO for it.

As discussed on southeast Roads in Facebook - wooden sign posts are up on US 64 east of Rocky mount but without signs.  I work in Rocky Mount and go past the planned future interstate 87 signs will be just east of the 95 interchange.  As of this morning they remain empty as they have for three weeks.

Thanks for the update. I don't have a Facebook account so that's why I was out of the loop.

Here is a photo from two weeks ago of said sign posts.  They still sit empty today...but they're drinking Milk and before you know it....

Future I-87 Coming Soon by Adam Prince, on Flickr

These poor sign posts going on two months without a sign.  The one on the left is starting to warp to the right.  It gets pretty lonely out there in the hot summer sun.

[LM117]

I figure this thread is better suited for the Southeast forum since most of the route is in NC. Ok, let me kick this off with a question. Does anybody know if NCDOT has put up any "Future I-87" signs along US-64 and/or US-17? I realize that I-495/Future I-495 hasn't been officially decommissioned from US-64 yet, but I figured I'd ask since NCDOT seemingly jumped the gun and put up Future I-42 signs on US-70 without FHWA approval (unless it was quietly approved), so it wouldn't surprise me if NCDOT got ahead of themselves again. I'm not expecting any Future I-87 signs on US-17 in VA since VDOT never applied to AASHTO for it.

As discussed on southeast Roads in Facebook - wooden sign posts are up on US 64 east of Rocky mount but without signs.  I work in Rocky Mount and go past the planned future interstate 87 signs will be just east of the 95 interchange.  As of this morning they remain empty as they have for three weeks.

Thanks for the update. I don't have a Facebook account so that's why I was out of the loop.

Here is a photo from two weeks ago of said sign posts.  They still sit empty today...but they're drinking Milk and before you know it....

Future I-87 Coming Soon by Adam Prince, on Flickr

These poor sign posts going on two months without a sign.  The one on the left is starting to warp to the right.  It gets pretty lonely out there in the hot summer sun.

That's surprising, given NCDOT's haste to put up Future I-42 signs on US-70. I'm starting to wonder if NCDOT is waiting to have I-495 canned before putting up Future I-87 signs, even though US-64 east of I-95 wasn't part of I-495. AASHTO's deadline for accepting applications is September 16, so we might find out soon.

[RoadMaster09]

Maybe there is consideration of withdrawing the I-87 request? Without the Hampton Roads connection (which would be better done with the whole US 17 corridor, and would be better designated as I-97 or I-99), an even number would be better. I'd just go with I-46 or I-48 here.

[LM117]

Maybe there is consideration of withdrawing the I-87 request? Without the Hampton Roads connection (which would be better done with the whole US 17 corridor, and would be better designated as I-97 or I-99), an even number would be better. I'd just go with I-46 or I-48 here.

There's no chance of NCDOT withdrawing I-87. It's already approved by AASHTO and probably the FHWA by now. Back in 2012, NCDOT asked FHWA to designate the route as I-44, but it seems to have been turned down since I-495 came about a year later.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140517130607/http://www.campo-nc.us/TCC_Agenda/2013/Agenda-TCC-2013-01-03-ATT-10-Addition%20of%20I-44,%20Wake%20County.pdf

[LM117]

I just came across an interesting (for me anyway, YMMV) article from 1992. It seems that the Raleigh-Norfolk interstate plan was being cooked up even back then and NCDOT and the HRMPO were leaning towards using US-13 rather than US-17.

http://articles.dailypress.com/1992-10-22/news/9210220164_1_new-route-new-road-study

Plans for a Norfolk-to-Raleigh, N.C. interstate went nowhere Wednesday when a regional planning group took exception to the state's choice of Route 17 through Chesapeake for the path of part of the new road.

The Hampton Roads Metropolitan Planning Organization, an advisory group, voted to ask the state Department of Transportation to give the options more study and to consider Route 13 through Suffolk.

Officials from Suffolk and Chesapeake, both of which are represented on the planning group, have previously vied for the routes through their communities.

The planning organization's two Newport News representatives, City Councilman Joe S. Frank and City Manager Edgar E. Maroney, backed the call for further study.

Frank said after the meeting that he wanted to negotiate a compromise that might provide improved connections with the Peninsula.

Maroney said there were "some very severe environmental problems" with the Route 17 corridor.

In a letter to the group, VDOT Commissioner Ray D. Pethtel recently reiterated the department's support for Route 17 despite the planning group's previous objections.

Pethtel said the federal legislation that provided $47.8 million to study new construction and a major upgrading of existing highway designates Route 17 as part of the new route.

No construction money has been appropriated for the work. Even the cheapest version of the road would cost about $240 million, the North Carolina Department of Transportation has estimated. The price could climb to as much as $1 billion.

VDOT's Pethtel said in his letter that most of his department's study of the project has been concentrated on Route 17 and Route 104 between the North Carolina line and Interstate 464 in Chesapeake.

However, at North Carolina's request, VDOT also has included alternatives along Route 13 from the state line through Suffolk to Bowers Hill and then to Interstate 64, Pethtel said.

In both cases, I-464 would connect with downtown Norfolk, he said.

[The Ghostbuster]

How many posters believe future Interstate 87 will ever enter Virginia? My guess is that it is a toss-up.

[Jmiles32]

I think I-87 in Virginia has a better chance then I-73 or I-74, but still as of now unlikely. VDOT is in the midst of constructing the Dominion Blvd improvements on US-17 in Chesapeake but not up to interstate standards. In fact I think part of it might be tolled. My point is that NC is really going to have to convince VA that upgrading the rest of US-17 is worth the $1 billion or so. Personally I would prefer I-87 travel up the VA-168 corridor. Pretty much all VDOT would have to do is widen some shoulders and that one bridge over the North Landing River. Minimal VDOT work. As for the road still being allowed to be tolled, I'm not sure...

[froggie]

I wouldn't call it "minimal VDOT work" for VA 168.  That southern 2 miles of VA 168 in Chesapeake has 3 signals, some private access, 2 No-Outlet road intersections, and a crapton of wetlands.

Nevermind that it wouldn't be VDOT but the city of Chesapeake being responsible.

Then there's the little matter of getting a corridor from US 17 over to NC/VA 168.  That wouldn't be cheap either.

[LM117]

How many posters believe future Interstate 87 will ever enter Virginia? My guess is that it is a toss-up.

Very unlikely, IMO. The 1992 article I linked in my last post notwithstanding, Virginia has zero interest in I-87. It has the support of Hampton Roads, but that's the extent of it. NC pretty much dragged VA into supporting the bill that helped make I-87 into law (the corridor, not the number). Even then, only 4 out of 11 VA Congressmen supported it while all of NC's delegation supported it.

Personally, I think the only way I-87 will reach Hampton Roads is if NC finishes all of their portion to the state line. Once I-87 is knocking on Chesapeake's doorstep, it might cause HR to put more pressure on the state to go ahead and upgrade US-17 to interstate standards and bring I-87 to I-64, possibly I-264 if it takes over I-464, which is what I'm hoping will happen.

[Takumi]

I don't think it'll ever go into Virginia, and if it does, not past Ballahack Road.

[NE2]

Nevermind that it wouldn't be VDOT but the city of Chesapeake being responsible.

If it becomes an Interstate it will most likely be taken over by the state (same for US 17). I don't know why neither is on the state-maintained arterial system in the first place, like US 58 west of Bowers Corner is.

[LM117]

I don't think it'll ever go into Virginia, and if it does, not past Ballahack Road.

Since interstates in most cases are required to end at a US Route or another interstate, it would have to be I-64 or bust. Then again, VDOT could decommission I-464 and re-designate it as I-87 and use that as a starting point, similar to what NCDOT is planning to do in Raleigh, but I don't see that happening, at least not until if/when I-87 makes it north of the state line.

[Jmiles32]

I wouldn't call it "minimal VDOT work" for VA 168.  That southern 2 miles of VA 168 in Chesapeake has 3 signals, some private access, 2 No-Outlet road intersections, and a crapton of wetlands.

Nevermind that it wouldn't be VDOT but the city of Chesapeake being responsible.

Then there's the little matter of getting a corridor from US 17 over to NC/VA 168.  That wouldn't be cheap either.

So you believe that I-87 should follow US-17 in VA then? I agree "minimal" wasn't the best word choice, I just think that if I-87 took the VA-168 route it would interest VDOT or the City of Chesapeake more as $$$ is always an issue.

As for those final 2 miles of VA-168, I-87 would leave the current VA-168 at Ballahack Road and turn south west to hook us with the current US-17 bypass near Elizabeth City to avoid all the businesses at the state line. Looks good on a map, but I'm sure there would be environmental issues.

[froggie]

So you believe that I-87 should follow US-17 in VA then?

I don't believe I-87 should go into Virginia at all.  But, if a freeway-grade facility WERE to some day (likely long after I'm dead) be warranted coming into South Hampton Roads from North Carolina, the US 17 corridor has several advantages over the VA 168 corridor.

[mvak36]

I don't believe I-87 should go into Virginia at all.  But, if a freeway-grade facility WERE to some day (likely long after I'm dead) be warranted coming into South Hampton Roads from North Carolina, the US 17 corridor has several advantages over the VA 168 corridor.

I agree. I think it will only go to Elizabeth City in my lifetime.

[LM117]

A project on the I-87 corridor was included in NCDOT's draft 2018-2027 STIP.

https://apps.ncdot.gov/NewsReleases/details.aspx?r=12910

Projects for coastal North Carolina include:

Converting the U.S. 17/Harvey Point Road/Wayne Fork Road intersection in Perquimans County to an interchange, improving travel along the Future Interstate 87 corridor

[froggie]

That one actually wouldn't be bad as a standalone project, as it eliminates one of the two signals on the Hertford bypass, and the busier of the two.  It will be someone expensive, though, in part because there is an isolated house on the northbound US 17 side between the intersection and the Perquimans River bridge that would either need to be bought out or have a frontage road built to.  I think it's more likely to be bought out.

[bob7374]

New Future I-87 signs to go up along US 17 and that construction could start within a decade:
http://pilotonline.com/news/local/transportation/new-interstate-construction-could-begin-within-a-decade/article_2be75322-0114-56c7-a29e-81a19a55ec0a.html

[LM117]

New Future I-87 signs to go up along US 17 and that construction could start within a decade:
http://pilotonline.com/news/local/transportation/new-interstate-construction-could-begin-within-a-decade/article_2be75322-0114-56c7-a29e-81a19a55ec0a.html

Construction could begin in the next eight years, said State Rep. Bob Steinburg, R-Chowan. In the next decade, the segment from the Virginia line to Elizabeth City could be completed.

That's surprising. I figured NCDOT would concentrate on US-64 first since that would be the easiest (and cheapest) to upgrade.

Maybe NCDOT thinks that if I-87 is on VA's doorstep, it might goad VDOT into building their part. If that's the case, I think NCDOT is in for a major disappointment if I-73 in VA is any indication...

[froggie]

Key word in that article:  COULD.  That's only if A) things go absolutely smoothly, B) the Army CoE grants the wetlands permits (remember that they denied Virginia's for their new US 460), and C) they line up the funding.  And regarding the funding, don't forget that any upgrade-to-Interstate-87 projects would need to be ranked against other planned projects in NCDOT's ranking system.

Given the unlikelihood of all that happening, I'd argue that it won't happen within 10 years.

[The Ghostbuster]

In the meantime, maybe North Carolina should focus on funding upgrades to the existing US 64 freeway. Once it is upgraded and signposted as Interstate 87, then maybe the proposed extension could possibly be funded and built.

[CanesFan27]

New Future I-87 signs to go up along US 17 and that construction could start within a decade:
http://pilotonline.com/news/local/transportation/new-interstate-construction-could-begin-within-a-decade/article_2be75322-0114-56c7-a29e-81a19a55ec0a.html

Construction could begin in the next eight years, said State Rep. Bob Steinburg, R-Chowan. In the next decade, the segment from the Virginia line to Elizabeth City could be completed.

That's surprising. I figured NCDOT would concentrate on US-64 first since that would be the easiest (and cheapest) to upgrade.

Maybe NCDOT thinks that if I-87 is on VA's doorstep, it might goad VDOT into building their part. If that's the case, I think NCDOT is in for a major disappointment if I-73 in VA is any indication...

Doesn't mean it won't have upgrades here.  Some of the upgrades to 17 are already planned. 

I didn't see anything but tying existing projects and some wishful thinking.

[Interstate 69 Fan]

Can anyone catch a shot of a Future Interstate 87 sign? I really want to see how it would be signed.

[NE2]

Can anyone catch a shot of a Future Interstate 87 sign? I really want to see how it would be signed.

Do you have an imagination?

[Interstate 69 Fan]

Can anyone catch a shot of a Future Interstate 87 sign? I really want to see how it would be signed.

Do you have an imagination?

Yeah. I just want to see the signs up. I always really enjoy seeing them being up.