Overhead traffic light mast arms, but no street sign on them

Started by KCRoadFan, December 19, 2024, 12:37:51 AM

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KCRoadFan

When I was over in KCK the other day, I thought about this traffic light at the corner of 7th Street and Orville Avenue (https://maps.app.goo.gl/zJspgFN6CMuecPwE7?g_st=ic): namely, it has a full set of four mast arms but the street signs aren't mounted on them, contrary to the vast majority of signalized intersections in the city and throughout the KC metro; the only street signs at that corner are a pair of ground-mounted blade signs.

Throughout the country, where else have you seen signalized intersections with where the street signs aren't mounted on the traffic light mast arm, and what cities have a lot of traffic lights with that characteristic? For me, Washington, DC comes to mind in that regard - where else?


hotdogPi

Massachusetts doesn't put street signs on mast arms at all.
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jeffandnicole

#2
I actually thought it was more common to not have street blades on traffic light mast arms.

I think DE and PA are inconsistent in their usage.

NJ normally does especially on State jurisdiction intersections. Most counties do as well.

vegas1962

Just off the top of my head, the intersection of Grand River Ave. and Haggerty Rd. (Novi/Farmington Hills, MI) has a full mast-arm set-up but no street signs (ground-post blades only).  Orchard Lake and 13 Mile Rd. in Farmington Hills is the same.

The 12 Mile Rd-Novi Rd intersection has mast arms WITH back-lit street signs attached, but all the intersections on 12 Mile east of there through Drake Rd. have mast arms but no street signs attached. 12 Mile is a divided boulevard over this entire stretch, however.

1995hoo

It's hit-or-miss in my area. Some mast arms have signs, some don't. Sometimes there's a ground-mounted little green sign posted in advance of an intersection with no signs (example here), sometimes there isn't. Sometimes there are both (example here). Usually (not always) there will be a dinky little blade-style sign mounted to one of the poles that support the mast arms, regardless of whether there's an overhead sign, but those aren't really an adequate substitute for a larger sign mounted to the mast arm. (Example here, and notice how one blade is broken off.)

Then there is this very weird one where the sign is on a separate arm, most likely because it looks like there wasn't room for it on the main arm.

The other thing that I've never seen here, but have seen elsewhere, is an overhead street sign attached to span wire.
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mrsman

CA has been an early adopter of such signage like by the 1960's.  It has also been very utilized throughout the Western states.

It took a lot longer in the rest of the country.  NYC started only in the late 90's.

Good signage is good traffic engineering.  It is very helpful to have large signage that is easy to read, so that you don't have to slow down simply to read a street sign.  Yet, the large signs aren't cheap, so the standard is to place them at signalized intersections as opposed to every intersection.

Very few overhead signs in Long Island. 

Arlington and Fairfax County Virginia also have very little.

Maryland suburbs are generally OK, but there are still a few signals without adequate signage.  When signals are upgraded from overhead wire to mast arm, signs are generally put in, but not always.

US 89

Steamboat Springs, Colorado comes to mind. All of their traffic lights have overhead mast arms, but road signs are only small blue signs at the corners, either mounted on the signal pole or some other post.

They do it both in the downtown area and also further south where US 40 is a little bit more of a highway.


countysigns

Toledo doesn't put street signs on its mast arms, but the suburbs are hit or miss.


Big John

^^ though the stop signs are there in both instances.

freebrickproductions

It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

mglass87

Most lights in Hopewell, VA are like this:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/E2Zt1YJHVLJcFqjs5

There's also this sign in Chester, VA that there was no room for:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3mYz6mjiZBJyoVpy8

Revive 755

Not uncommon in Illinois and a few other states on the main road where the side road is for a shopping center:

IMHO there should be some sort of identification, such as the block number, give the intersection a letter (like some of them in Kentucky), or sign it with the business/shopping center name example in Iowa).

tman

Bellevue, Nebraska has this "800 South" sign at a light that serves some businesses:
StreetView

It's a smaller than normal sign, too.

Omaha (and Bellevue) are big on signing street coordinates, but it's the only time I've seen them not combined with the street name.

mrsman

Quote from: mglass87 on December 21, 2024, 06:48:43 PMThere's also this sign in Chester, VA that there was no room for:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3mYz6mjiZBJyoVpy8

I am glad that the sign is there.  In so many places, the sign would simply be skipped, because of the difficulty of hanging up the sign.

---

Also, does anybody know if these larger signs are required by federal law in any way (all signals or only new signals) or state law or is it really just based on practice of state or city DOTs without any real requirement.

roadfro

Quote from: mrsman on December 22, 2024, 11:14:16 AMAlso, does anybody know if these larger signs are required by federal law in any way (all signals or only new signals) or state law or is it really just based on practice of state or city DOTs without any real requirement.
I don't believe there's any MUTCD requirement for specific types of street name signs on traffic signals. It's likely governed by the policy of the maintaining agency or lack thereof.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

roadman65

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epzik8

Quote from: roadman65 on December 31, 2024, 04:16:13 PMhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/iTahr2UBuUtrLjWt6?g_st=ac
Wildwood, NJ. No overhead signs in a popular Summer Resort Community.

They spent the money that could have gone toward those on street brick art (which TBH does look nice)
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roadman65

I just noticed a lot of them in Delaware. No overhead street signs everywhere in New Castle County.
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jeffandnicole


roadman65

Yeah so there are.  I drove US 13 and US 202 and most all signalized intersections lacked them.
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