Clinching Highways and Re-alignment

[Duke87]

I'm generally okay with "close enough to see the end from where I am is close enough to count it clinched", so long as it's kept to occasional and not abused. Helps the case immensely if there is some barrier to actually going to the end.
This works with borders, but I would stipulate that seeing the customs house isn't good enough, you have to be able to see to the point where the border physically crosses the road - so, US 11 and I-81 cannot be clinched without going through customs. I-87 can be, if you have to drive up US 9 to the turnaround.

As for any debates over where the end of a road is, I go by what CHM says. No, it's not always correct or logical (see: Sunken Meadow State Parkway, northern end), but seeing as it's what I'm using to keep track of this stuff, I would end up with inconsistencies to reconcile if I used some other standard.

[Janko Dialnice]

Well, that means that I need to make a trip to Kingston, ON, then, to clinch I-81. That will also give me an excuse to go past Utica, so I can get the last few meters of I-790 (from the Thruway entrance/Genessee Street back to Leland Avenue).

[1995hoo]

What about: do you actually have to be the driver, or can you clinch as a passenger? What if you're asleep, does it count?

Being the driver is not required. Being awake is not required. Hell, remembering doing it is not required. I clinched I-595 and I-97 when my family made a side trip to Annapolis on the way back from DC. This was when I was three years old. I don't remember this trip and have been on neither road since, but I count both as clinched because I can logically deduce I must have been on them.

....

I think, as with many other things in life, a rule of "reasonableness" or "realism" might apply. I could argue that I've clinched I-30 as a passenger, and while technically that might be true, the only time I've ever been on I-30 was when I was 1 year old and riding with my parents when we were moving from Texas (where I was born) to Virginia (where I've lived ever since, not counting time spent in North Carolina for law school). Since I didn't know what a road was at the time, much less an Interstate Highway or the concept of "clinching" one, it's probably not reasonable to count that as a "clinch." Once you're old enough to have an interest in roads or maps it's a different story, of course, and I think it might be "reasonable" to count roads "clinched" even when you were not close to being old enough to drive if you were interested in this sort of thing at the time.

Though I suppose to some degree I might be violating that principle in the Rand McNally atlas I keep on a bookshelf where I highlight, to the best of my ability, all the North American roads on which I've travelled in my life. It has some of the roads in Texas and the town of Copperas Cove highlighted even though I do not remember any of it. (Been back to Texas one time, on a school trip to Denton in 1990. I'd like to go back someday and see where I was born.) But I don't view the atlas in the same sense as I would a "clinched" index. It's more just a way of noting where I've been over the years.

[hbelkins]

I did the same thing for I-81 before Watertown. Drove to the last exit, got off, drove under the bridge and turned around in the customs parking lot (and snapped a photo of the building, which is up on my Flickr site, and I haven't been threatened to take it down yet). I need I-81 from the Thruway exit south to NY 17, but when I get that section (probably next year at one of the New York or New England meets) I will consider I-81 clinched, because I don't have a passport and thus it is impossible for me to enter Canada.

[corco]

What about: do you actually have to be the driver, or can you clinch as a passenger? What if you're asleep, does it count?

For me to straight up say I've clinched it, I have had to have been the driver. Now, if you ask me what I've clinched, I'll say "here's what I've clinched and here's what I've clinched as a passenger"- I tally the two separately.

I did the same thing for I-81 before Watertown. Drove to the last exit, got off, drove under the bridge and turned around in the customs parking lot (and snapped a photo of the building, which is up on my Flickr site, and I haven't been threatened to take it down yet). I need I-81 from the Thruway exit south to NY 17, but when I get that section (probably next year at one of the New York or New England meets) I will consider I-81 clinched, because I don't have a passport and thus it is impossible for me to enter Canada.

I usually do this at international boundaries too- drive as close as is practical/quasi-legal and then turn around.

[oscar]

What about: do you actually have to be the driver, or can you clinch as a passenger? What if you're asleep, does it count?

Being the driver is not required. Being awake is not required. Hell, remembering doing it is not required. I clinched I-595 and I-97 when my family made a side trip to Annapolis on the way back from DC. This was when I was three years old. I don't remember this trip and have been on neither road since, but I count both as clinched because I can logically deduce I must have been on them.

....

I think, as with many other things in life, a rule of "reasonableness" or "realism" might apply. I could argue that I've clinched I-30 as a passenger, and while technically that might be true, the only time I've ever been on I-30 was when I was 1 year old and riding with my parents when we were moving from Texas (where I was born) to Virginia (where I've lived ever since, not counting time spent in North Carolina for law school). Since I didn't know what a road was at the time, much less an Interstate Highway or the concept of "clinching" one, it's probably not reasonable to count that as a "clinch." Once you're old enough to have an interest in roads or maps it's a different story, of course, and I think it might be "reasonable" to count roads "clinched" even when you were not close to being old enough to drive if you were interested in this sort of thing at the time.

I count as clinched some I-40 business loops that I traveled only as an 8-year old when my father took much of the old US 66 (before I-40 was completed) moving the family cross-country to California.  Ditto parts of US 52 in Minnesota, when I was a toddler (and, unlike the move to California, I have no conscious memory of anything that far back), on which my father drove the family from Fergus Falls to visit relatives in the Minneapolis area, before I-94 was completed.  And while I am fussy about crossing the border with Canada or Mexico to clinch a highway that ends at the border, I count I-5 as clinched even though my only visit to Tijuana was on a high school field trip (this was back in the 1970s when border crossings were easy).

For county-clinching purposes, I've counted about a dozen counties which I at that time had crossed only by train, sometimes as a kid and perhaps also while I was asleep.  But I'm pretty sure I've since re-clinched all those counties by car.

[empirestate]

And while I am fussy about crossing the border with Canada or Mexico to clinch a highway that ends at the border, I count I-5 as clinched even though my only visit to Tijuana was on a high school field trip (this was back in the 1970s when border crossings were easy).

I'm not sure I'd be satisfied with clinching at a border unless I actually went through. To me, it's more appealing to collect the roads because they lie along my path, because they lead me to some purpose (even if it's an aimless one).

[1995hoo]

What about: do you actually have to be the driver, or can you clinch as a passenger? What if you're asleep, does it count?

Being the driver is not required. Being awake is not required. Hell, remembering doing it is not required. I clinched I-595 and I-97 when my family made a side trip to Annapolis on the way back from DC. This was when I was three years old. I don't remember this trip and have been on neither road since, but I count both as clinched because I can logically deduce I must have been on them.

....

I think, as with many other things in life, a rule of "reasonableness" or "realism" might apply. I could argue that I've clinched I-30 as a passenger, and while technically that might be true, the only time I've ever been on I-30 was when I was 1 year old and riding with my parents when we were moving from Texas (where I was born) to Virginia (where I've lived ever since, not counting time spent in North Carolina for law school). Since I didn't know what a road was at the time, much less an Interstate Highway or the concept of "clinching" one, it's probably not reasonable to count that as a "clinch." Once you're old enough to have an interest in roads or maps it's a different story, of course, and I think it might be "reasonable" to count roads "clinched" even when you were not close to being old enough to drive if you were interested in this sort of thing at the time.

I count as clinched some I-40 business loops that I traveled only as an 8-year old when my father took much of the old US 66 (before I-40 was completed) moving the family cross-country to California.  Ditto parts of US 52 in Minnesota, when I was a toddler (and, unlike the move to California, I have no conscious memory of anything that far back), on which my father drove the family from Fergus Falls to visit relatives in the Minneapolis area, before I-94 was completed.  And while I am fussy about crossing the border with Canada or Mexico to clinch a highway that ends at the border, I count I-5 as clinched even though my only visit to Tijuana was on a high school field trip (this was back in the 1970s when border crossings were easy).

For county-clinching purposes, I've counted about a dozen counties which I at that time had crossed only by train, sometimes as a kid and perhaps also while I was asleep.  But I'm pretty sure I've since re-clinched all those counties by car.

Except for the toddler part, I think this sounds like essentially the same thing I said unless I'm misinterpreting you. A cross-country trip at age 8 is certainly at an age where someone can have developed an interest in roads and maps and the like, even though it will be another 8 years before you're legally able to drive yourself. I deliberately tried to avoid giving a firm number, though, because different people might develop an interest in that sort of thing at different times. I always liked looking at maps as a kid and knowing where we were going. My brother never did, and he still ridicules me for knowing umpteen different ways to get everywhere (right up to the point where he gets stuck in a traffic jam and I go a different way and get somewhere first).

In my mind, I probably wouldn't count my travel as a one-year-old towards "clinching" simply because that travel means nothing to me in a practical sense–I have no memory of it, I had no say in the matter, and I had no input onto which route to follow. Of course a bus trip would fail the second two elements of that as well most of the time (unless you had a choice not to go), but in my case a high school field trip would have been at a time where I had taken an interest in roads and would have liked to have gone different ways just to see different things, so I'd count it.

That's why I phrased my comment in terms of "reasonableness." I think I'd distinguish the "infant" scenario from the "sleeping passenger" scenario by saying that the infant has no capability to be aware of where he is, what road he's on, where he's going, etc., whereas the "sleeping passenger" COULD be aware of all these things (and indeed may well have contributed by telling his wife which road to take, when to wake him up, etc.) but simply chose to sleep instead. In my mind it's a difference of "ability," for lack of a better way to put it.

[agentsteel53]

I claim to have clinched the MA/CT I-86 at age 5, because I distinctly remember there being a single I-86 shield left at Exit 2 in Sturbridge, MA.

[oscar]

That's why I phrased my comment in terms of "reasonableness." I think I'd distinguish the "infant" scenario from the "sleeping passenger" scenario by saying that the infant has no capability to be aware of where he is, what road he's on, where he's going, etc., whereas the "sleeping passenger" COULD be aware of all these things (and indeed may well have contributed by telling his wife which road to take, when to wake him up, etc.) but simply chose to sleep instead. In my mind it's a difference of "ability," for lack of a better way to put it.

Yeah, I didn't say I was being "reasonable".    To each his or her own.

[1995hoo]

That's why I phrased my comment in terms of "reasonableness." I think I'd distinguish the "infant" scenario from the "sleeping passenger" scenario by saying that the infant has no capability to be aware of where he is, what road he's on, where he's going, etc., whereas the "sleeping passenger" COULD be aware of all these things (and indeed may well have contributed by telling his wife which road to take, when to wake him up, etc.) but simply chose to sleep instead. In my mind it's a difference of "ability," for lack of a better way to put it.

Yeah, I didn't say I was being "reasonable".    To each his or her own.

Fair enough–and you will notice I never phrased any of my comments as purporting to lay down absolute rules. What it boils down to in my mind is that it seems to me that the notion of "clinching" as used in this thread is only meaningful if a person is able to understand the concept.

[Scott5114]

With regard to passenger/driving: I used to keep track of all my travels before I got my license in yellow highlighter on my maps. When I started driving I marked those with pink highligher. I still use that system–pink highlighting is much preferable, but yellow still counts.

[Dr Frankenstein]

Clinching as a passenger isn't a problem for me. However I often won't mark a stretch of road as clinched if I was sleeping, since I wasn't actually looking at it. Seeing the roads is one of my main points in clinching them.

[Laura]

What about: do you actually have to be the driver, or can you clinch as a passenger? What if you're asleep, does it count?

For me to straight up say I've clinched it, I have had to have been the driver. Now, if you ask me what I've clinched, I'll say "here's what I've clinched and here's what I've clinched as a passenger"- I tally the two separately.

Interesting. I think that being the passenger can often have more clinch value than being the driver. At least in my experience, I am more observant of signs and road features as the passenger.

I usually do this at international boundaries too- drive as close as is practical/quasi-legal and then turn around.

I feel the same in regards to U.S. military bases. So I technically missed the last 1/2 mile? That's really okay if it saved me from being marked as suspicious and on some terrorist list.

Which brings me to my definition of "reasonable" - I'm more likely to fudge and count a mile missed here and there if I'm on a trip further away from home. Also if someone else is driving. For instance, I went on a school trip to Mammoth Cave, KY in 2007. Although I navigated for good chunks of the time, I did not drive. It's very possible that at some point, the driver got off at a partial interchange for gas/bathroom break and didn't get back on the interstate for a mile or two. I'm not going to make a big stink about it because it was one or two miles missing over hundreds of miles of interstate. What did I miss - trees? A couple of FHWA BGS?

I would not let this fly if I was closer to home, but in this case, I rarely get out to KY and TN.

Same deal with family trips as a kid. My family drove from MD to AL, then all around FL, and back when I was ten. I assume the full clinch of interstate and US routes in between the cities we visited if they make sense. I only count state routes if they are clearly the primary road between known destinations. Fortunately, my love of roads began at age 3, and my folks didn't take me anywhere before that time, so I have no infant/toddler stuff. I have very clear memories of roads and maps and the like from age 3 on.

The only time I do not count sleeping is when the primary goal for a trip is to clinch routes. For instance, one time Mike and I were driving around MD, and I fell asleep. I woke up and we were going the opposite direction halfway across the county and apparently we clenched like three state routes during that time. Haha, as much as a cheater I am about the other stuff, I'm not going to count sleeping (local for me) state routes that were only driven for the purpose of clinching. (Going back to the KY/TN example - yes, I'm sure I napped while riding on those interstates, but did I really miss much? At least that was part of a vacation or trip.)

[oscar]

I usually do this at international boundaries too- drive as close as is practical/quasi-legal and then turn around.

I feel the same in regards to U.S. military bases. So I technically missed the last 1/2 mile? That's really okay if it saved me from being marked as suspicious and on some terrorist list.

I've had to do this with most of the many Hawaii state routes that end at military base entrances -- do a quick U-turn in front of the guard station, but not actually attempt to go into the base -- just to avoid wasting lots of time getting nicely turned around, or not so nicely interrogated for trying to visit the base when I had no legitimate reason to go there.  Fortunately, Interstate H-3 ends just before the turnaround just before the Kaneohe MCBH base entrance, so no need to clear base security to clinch.  HI 92 ends at the Pearl Harbor base gate, with no turnaround opportunities, but that seems to happen a lot to tourists taking a wrong turn off the freeway, so while the Navy didn't insist that Hawaii DOT build a turnaround before the base entrance, it was nice about letting me turn around just inside the base.

For the one Interstate that supposedly goes into a military base and requires a stop at the base gate (business I-44 into Fort Leonard Wood in Missouri -- I say "supposedly" because there are no route markers within the base), I said I wanted to visit some museums on base, and had no problem getting a visitor's pass on that basis.

[corco]

Interesting. I think that being the passenger can often have more clinch value than being the driver. At least in my experience, I am more observant of signs and road features as the passenger.

I'm sure that varies from person to person- I'm the exact opposite. I definitely wouldn't question somebody's clinch claims if they're an awake passenger though- it's more of an obsessive tic on my end that I feel like I have to have driven it.  

In the strictest of senses, I'm most comfortable calling a route clinched only if I've not only driven it, but photographed it and put it on the website. When I say "I've driven every mile of state highway in Wyoming/Washington"- I mean that I've driven every mile of and photographed signage along every route.  The problem with that definition is that  it cuts out everything I've clinched pre-2007, but at this point the vast majority of the highway mileage I've driven has come in the last four years, and in the last four years I've almost never gone on roadtrips without a camera.

The only time I do not count sleeping is when the primary goal for a trip is to clinch routes. For instance, one time Mike and I were driving around MD, and I fell asleep. I woke up and we were going the opposite direction halfway across the county and apparently we clenched like three state routes during that time. Haha, as much as a cheater I am about the other stuff, I'm not going to count sleeping (local for me) state routes that were only driven for the purpose of clinching. (Going back to the KY/TN example - yes, I'm sure I napped while riding on those interstates, but did I really miss much? At least that was part of a vacation or trip.)

I kind of agree with that- sleeping for 20 miles down I-70 in Western Kansas on a trip where you're on I-70 from Ohio to Colorado isn't a big deal when it's a small part of a larger trip, but if you fall asleep on I-70, get on US-83, and then get on I-80 before waking up, I'm not sure that you should get to count US-83

[Alex]

I usually do this at international boundaries too- drive as close as is practical/quasi-legal and then turn around.

I feel the same in regards to U.S. military bases. So I technically missed the last 1/2 mile? That's really okay if it saved me from being marked as suspicious and on some terrorist list.

I agree, if you can see that half mile, what is the difference if you were turning around or sitting in a car rolling over it. Your eyes see it either way right? 

I've had to do this with most of the many Hawaii state routes that end at military base entrances -- do a quick U-turn in front of the guard station, but not actually attempt to go into the base -- just to avoid wasting lots of time getting nicely turned around, or not so nicely interrogated for trying to visit the base when I had no legitimate reason to go there.  Fortunately, Interstate H-3 ends just before the turnaround just before the Kaneohe MCBH base entrance, so no need to clear base security to clinch. 

We followed a convertible making the u-turn just ahead of the gate. Although it is not striped as a turn lane, we had no issues.

HI 92 ends at the Pearl Harbor base gate, with no turnaround opportunities, but that seems to happen a lot to tourists taking a wrong turn off the freeway, so while the Navy didn't insist that Hawaii DOT build a turnaround before the base entrance, it was nice about letting me turn around just inside the base.

They were formal, but nice about letting us turn around. We just played dumb "we are looking for H1". You get to see a couple of oddly fonted I-H1 shields on HI-92 east in the process.

[oscar]

I've had to do this with most of the many Hawaii state routes that end at military base entrances -- do a quick U-turn in front of the guard station, but not actually attempt to go into the base -- just to avoid wasting lots of time getting nicely turned around, or not so nicely interrogated for trying to visit the base when I had no legitimate reason to go there.  Fortunately, Interstate H-3 ends just before the turnaround just before the Kaneohe MCBH base entrance, so no need to clear base security to clinch. 

We followed a convertible making the u-turn just ahead of the gate. Although it is not striped as a turn lane, we had no issues.

The other option is to make a right turn at that turnaround, into the parking lot for people requesting permission to enter the base, and/or gawking at the replica Iwo Jima monument.  You can turn around within that lot, then make a left turn in front of the sentries onto westbound H-3.