Indiana Notes

[noelbotevera]

So why can't INDOT legally afford to put more road miles back into the state system?

It's a stupid law in our Constitution (or some statute) that disallows us from having so many miles of highways. Not sure why we have a cap at all really, it has a lot of unintended consequences. I can't remember the exact number but it's not a very high number and 69 is eating into it.
I think there's also a law saying every county seat must be connected to the state highway system in some way. And I think more specifically the courthouse/government offices must be connected in some way.

Simply Indiana™

[silverback1065]

So why can't INDOT legally afford to put more road miles back into the state system?

It's a stupid law in our Constitution (or some statute) that disallows us from having so many miles of highways. Not sure why we have a cap at all really, it has a lot of unintended consequences. I can't remember the exact number but it's not a very high number and 69 is eating into it.
I think there's also a law saying every county seat must be connected to the state highway system in some way. And I think more specifically the courthouse/government offices must be connected in some way.

Simply Indiana™

You mean Honest to goodness Indiana! (Ugh I hate that moniker)

[mukade]

The number of miles in the highway system is nowhere near the cap. If it was you would have never seen the advent of SR 931 and SR 750 or the extension of SR 445.

[billtm]

The number of miles in the highway system is nowhere near the cap. If it was you would have never seen the advent of SR 931 and SR 750 or the extension of SR 445.

Then why the fk is INDOT deconnecting all these state roads?
BTW, I don't think the courthouse rule exists, because the Tippecanoe County Courthouse is no longer served by a state road.

[silverback1065]

The number of miles in the highway system is nowhere near the cap. If it was you would have never seen the advent of SR 931 and SR 750 or the extension of SR 445.

Then why the fk is INDOT deconnecting all these state roads?
BTW, I don't think the courthouse rule exists, because the Tippecanoe County Courthouse is no longer served by a state road.

The courthouse probably isn't true. I do think the county seat part is true, but I think the decommissionings are more preemptive to stay under even if they aren't close, it's still a factor. But most likely is that INDOT just hates city streets, they're expensive to maintain.  And dealing with cities requests, which can range from completely reasonable to insane, is also probably annoying for them. Just speculation on my part

[tdindy88]

I would also guess that there is a some disconnect between what the state thinks is right and what a city believes is right for their street. INDOT wanted for six-lane Keystone (old SR 431) and leave the stoplights, Carmel had a better idea to turn it into a limited access highway, I don't think anyone here now would argue who had the better idea. I know Bloomington would probably love it if INDOT left their streets alone, they tried it with SR 37.

As for the county pentagon signs if I remember the one in Montgomery County it was just the regular county road number, something like "500 E" written in yellow in the middle of the pentagon. Hell we could do that for any county road in the state if their county uses the grid system.

[silverback1065]

I would also guess that there is a some disconnect between what the state thinks is right and what a city believes is right for their street. INDOT wanted for six-lane Keystone (old SR 431) and leave the stoplights, Carmel had a better idea to turn it into a limited access highway, I don't think anyone here now would argue who had the better idea. I know Bloomington would probably love it if INDOT left their streets alone, they tried it with SR 37.

As for the county pentagon signs if I remember the one in Montgomery County it was just the regular county road number, something like "500 E" written in yellow in the middle of the pentagon. Hell we could do that for any county road in the state if their county uses the grid system.

I think keystone was more of indot being cheap than anything, they were always going to upgrade 31 to a interstate quality highway, having to do 431 too seems to be not worth it from their prospective. Might be what they're thinking with 37. Is there any chance indot keeps 37? Also, does anyone know when 431 was built around Carmel? (Not the roundabout stuff). Carmel also kind of got the deal of a lifetime when it came to money for the turnover. Kokomo got peanuts for 22, barely enough to pave the thing if I remember correctly.

[mukade]

I thought Kokomo got $6M between upfront cash and grants, but a lot of that road has been rebuilt in the last 10 years. The  part by US 31 is four years old so they got a fair deal because I doubt that INDOT would never do more than maintenance on it from here on out. I believe the reason Kokomo/Howard County don't want SR 931 is that they think it needs to be rebuilt - which I am sure is true. I don't think they wanted a Keystone Parkway, but INDOT did say they would offer something more in line with what Sagamore Parkway got.

In general, I think the local jurisdictions like the turnbacks because they can improve the streets the way they want, and they can reduce truck traffic in some places (like Pendleton). Obviously, they reject the offer otherwise. This trend has been going on over 20 years.

[US 41]

I believe Indiana's mileage cap is at 12,000 miles and currently they are somewhere around 11,300 miles. I don't think decommissioning 4 mile sections of highway through a town is really going to help bring their numbers down much. It's INDOT's fault for building the roads through the towns in the first place.

I think the state highway signs should remain signed in the towns that the road was decommissioned in. I believe that in some states that some state highways are actually maintained by the local governments rather than the state.

[silverback1065]

I believe Indiana's mileage cap is at 12,000 miles and currently they are somewhere around 11,300 miles. I don't think decommissioning 4 mile sections of highway through a town is really going to help bring their numbers down much. It's INDOT's fault for building the roads through the towns in the first place.

I think the state highway signs should remain signed in the towns that the road was decommissioned in. I believe that in some states that some state highways are actually maintained by the local governments rather than the state.

this is done in a few states, is Ohio one of them?  Ohio has an insane amount of highways, and a lot of seemingly useless ones in cities. 

[Alex]

I believe Indiana's mileage cap is at 12,000 miles and currently they are somewhere around 11,300 miles. I don't think decommissioning 4 mile sections of highway through a town is really going to help bring their numbers down much. It's INDOT's fault for building the roads through the towns in the first place.

I think the state highway signs should remain signed in the towns that the road was decommissioned in. I believe that in some states that some state highways are actually maintained by the local governments rather than the state.

Is that mileage cap number ever increased to reflect population growth and the associated traffic demand increases?

[The Ghostbuster]

I read on Wikipedia that the Terre Haute Bypass (State Highway 641) is going to become Interstate 170. I don't see how that is possible, since the interchange at Interstate 70 is not going to become a free-flow freeway-to-freeway interchange.

[noelbotevera]

I believe Indiana's mileage cap is at 12,000 miles and currently they are somewhere around 11,300 miles. I don't think decommissioning 4 mile sections of highway through a town is really going to help bring their numbers down much. It's INDOT's fault for building the roads through the towns in the first place.

I think the state highway signs should remain signed in the towns that the road was decommissioned in. I believe that in some states that some state highways are actually maintained by the local governments rather than the state.

Is that mileage cap number ever increased to reflect population growth and the associated traffic demand increases?

Seems not. AARoads posts dating from 2009 don't show any changes. This website here dates to the MTR days of 1994/1995 and last updated in 2008...
http://thisisindiana.angelfire.com/roadsandhighways.htm

I will try and see if I can dig further...

[silverback1065]

I read on Wikipedia that the Terre Haute Bypass (State Highway 641) is going to become Interstate 170. I don't see how that is possible, since the interchange at Interstate 70 is not going to become a free-flow freeway-to-freeway interchange.

Interesting, I don't think that's true at all but it would be interesting to have another interstate

[US 41]

Google Maps now shows the new ramp from east 70 to SR 46. It will eventually be the eastbound 70 to southbound 641.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4307873,-87.3354247,17z

I read on Wikipedia that the Terre Haute Bypass (State Highway 641) is going to become Interstate 170. I don't see how that is possible, since the interchange at Interstate 70 is not going to become a free-flow freeway-to-freeway interchange.

Interesting, I don't think that's true at all but it would be interesting to have another interstate

I saw that too. I actually think that's a good idea and I hope it happens. It probably isn't true, but you never know. The only part of the interchange that wouldn't be free flowing (interstate to interstate) would be north 170 to west 70.

[2trailertrucker]

The new ramps from eastbound I 70 to SR 46 are now open. It was dark when I drive through, so I couldn't get much of a look.

[2trailertrucker]

I have noticed that INDOT has seemed to have changed their thinking about construction zones. The last few years, they were dangerous to drive through, with truck lanes on soft asphalt and tilted toward the median amongst other configurations.

This year, they seem to have spent some time designing them with safety in mind. Because of this, traffic is flowing through with little congestion, and fewer accidents.

[bmeiser]

I read on Wikipedia that the Terre Haute Bypass (State Highway 641) is going to become Interstate 170. I don't see how that is possible, since the interchange at Interstate 70 is not going to become a free-flow freeway-to-freeway interchange.

Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia

[2trailertrucker]

I read on Wikipedia that the Terre Haute Bypass (State Highway 641) is going to become Interstate 170. I don't see how that is possible, since the interchange at Interstate 70 is not going to become a free-flow freeway-to-freeway interchange.

Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia

Bonjour!

[The Ghostbuster]

It did seem a little far-fetched to me.

[US 41]

It did seem a little far-fetched to me.

SR 641 is being built with Major Moves funds. I don't think it has received any federal money.

[noelbotevera]

It did seem a little far-fetched to me.

SR 641 is being built with Major Moves funds. I don't think it has received any federal money.

Ehhhhh...that's a problem. Major Moves got battered down by opposition when the Indiana Toll Road tried it...I'm expecting the same result.   

[mukade]

It did seem a little far-fetched to me.

SR 641 is being built with Major Moves funds. I don't think it has received any federal money.

Major Moves funds the state portion of the cost, but I bet SR 641 construction is using some sort of Federal funding as well. I-69 and US 31 definitely included Federal funding.

[US 41]

It did seem a little far-fetched to me.

SR 641 is being built with Major Moves funds. I don't think it has received any federal money.

Ehhhhh...that's a problem. Major Moves got battered down by opposition when the Indiana Toll Road tried it...I'm expecting the same result.   

I thought Major Moves is the money Indiana got when they made a long term lease agreement with whoever runs the Indiana Toll Road now. I am pretty sure that SR 641 is 100% funded by Major Moves or it was advertised that way.

[silverback1065]

65 is open