The Sorry State of Affairs in Automobilia in the 1970s, 80s and 90s

[J N Winkler]

The 1980's were a decade of odd gauges--this Tercel had a tilt indicator:

[Max Rockatansky]

The 1980's were a decade of odd gauges--this Tercel had a tilt indicator:

Funny....and I probably could really make use out of a tilt indicator on some of the roads I go travel on.  Generally unless its a state highway there is very little in the way of grade warnings and even they really aren't all that reliable.  I've must have hit 20% on at least half a dozen roads in 2016.

[J N Winkler]

Funny....and I probably could really make use out of a tilt indicator on some of the roads I go travel on.  Generally unless its a state highway there is very little in the way of grade warnings and even they really aren't all that reliable.  I've must have hit 20% on at least half a dozen roads in 2016.

I still miss the volts and oil pressure gauges some 1980's cars had.  My 1986 Nissan Maxima, which was the first car I road-tripped seriously in, had both.  But the technology has moved on so much that a dedicated tinkerer could probably replicate the lost function on a DIY basis--maybe the OBD II data stream (through the J1962 connector) for oil pressure and other operating parameters that are still reported to the PCM through sensors, and a smartphone accelerometer for tilt?

For city streets with unusually steep grades (e.g. Marin Avenue in Berkeley), I have parked and gone exploring on foot so I can count rise and run on brick or stone block walls abutting the sidewalk.

[Max Rockatansky]

Funny....and I probably could really make use out of a tilt indicator on some of the roads I go travel on.  Generally unless its a state highway there is very little in the way of grade warnings and even they really aren't all that reliable.  I've must have hit 20% on at least half a dozen roads in 2016.

I still miss the volts and oil pressure gauges some 1980's cars had.  My 1986 Nissan Maxima, which was the first car I road-tripped seriously in, had both.  But the technology has moved on so much that a dedicated tinkerer could probably replicate the lost function on a DIY basis--maybe the OBD II data stream (through the J1962 connector) for oil pressure and other operating parameters that are still reported to the PCM through sensors, and a smartphone accelerometer for tilt?

For city streets with unusually steep grades (e.g. Marin Avenue in Berkeley), I have parked and gone exploring on foot so I can count rise and run on brick or stone block walls abutting the sidewalk.

Seems like most pedestrian models of cars really have dropped gauges in favor of warning (idiot) lights).  Really I'm finding some of these modern sub-compacts despite being built with a commuter action actually handle mountain grades very well.  I would suspect in the case of my Sonic the low weight coupled with a nice high torque turbo four cylinder make uphill climbs relatively easy compared to what one might expect.  The damn thing always reminds me it is a commuter car though because of the lack of gauges and worse so that the stock brakes warp easily if pushed too hard, so lots of engine braking on long sustained stretches of downhill are in order.

Now my other car on the other hand is a 2016 Challenger and has literally every single piece of data available in the DIC.  Not quite the old mechanical gauges of old but they are really nice to have on a quick browse through the menu.  Now I've actually looked for tilt gauges for both cars but nobody seems to offer them for either.  Maybe you're onto something trying to use a smart phone app, I'll have to look into it.

[Max Rockatansky]

The Miser....only during the late 1970s and early 1980s could such a name for a vehicle have been thought to been "appealing."  Buy the TC3 Miser on the cheap, save the money for those chain-smoked unfiltered menthol cigarettes:

How 80s to have "the suburbs" as the aspiration of the American Dream.  Love the brake performance at 3:01. 

[seicer]

Where are they testing the car out at? And that unused highway strip?

[PHLBOS]

I still miss the volts and oil pressure gauges some 1980's cars had.

Both my '97 Crown Vic. and 2007 Mustang has those as well.

The Crown Vics. has those as standard equipment circa 1992-2005 (Grand Marquis had them standard circa 1995-2005).  It was optional on the 2005-2014 Mustangs.

[Rothman]

My wife's 2012 Nissan Versa doesn't even have a temp gauge.  It's maddening.

[PHLBOS]

My wife's 2012 Nissan Versa doesn't even have a temp gauge.  It's maddening.

Many vehicles from the 70s & 80s didn't have such either.

[Rothman]

My wife's 2012 Nissan Versa doesn't even have a temp gauge.  It's maddening.

Many vehicles from the 70s & 80s didn't have such either.

My 1981 Honda Civic did.

[PHLBOS]

Many does not equal all.   

I still miss the volts and oil pressure gauges some 1980's cars had.

The 1970-1977 Lincoln Continentals/Town Cars/Town Coupes had the volt gauge.

1970 Continental cluster shown (one can see the volt gauge on the far-left):


1976 Continental cluster:

[Henry]

Where are they testing the car out at? And that unused highway strip?

Given the show's home base of Owings Mills, MD, it would be the southern half of I-795 that would open to traffic in 1984. (The part further north wasn't completed until '87-'88.) At the time, it was common practice to test drive cars on highways that weren't available for use, like the aforementioned example.

[GCrites]

It also looks like they did some testing on unfinished I-68 in western MD later on, say '84-'87.

[Max Rockatansky]

My wife's 2012 Nissan Versa doesn't even have a temp gauge.  It's maddening.

My Sonic and Fiesta didn't have them either.  Really it looks like you have to step up to compact or mid-size territory these days to get anything but idiot lights.  I'm thinking the assumption is that the smaller the car the more likely it will be driven in-town on commutes where mechanical issues are less common.  It would be the nice to have an option for enhanced onboard diagnostics, I certainly appreciated them when I had my Camaro and well as in my Challenger.  I would gladly pay $200-$400 for that option line...

[J N Winkler]

My wife's 2012 Nissan Versa doesn't even have a temp gauge.  It's maddening.

My Sonic and Fiesta didn't have them either.  Really it looks like you have to step up to compact or mid-size territory these days to get anything but idiot lights.  I'm thinking the assumption is that the smaller the car the more likely it will be driven in-town on commutes where mechanical issues are less common.  It would be the nice to have an option for enhanced onboard diagnostics, I certainly appreciated them when I had my Camaro and well as in my Challenger.  I would gladly pay $200-$400 for that option line...

I think non-provision of a temperature gauge (which, by the way, is also true for the 2009 Honda Fit in the family) is straight-up market segmentation.  The automakers seem to have decided that as long as OBD II will set a code when the thermostat goes kaput and the engine takes too long to warm up, the gauge is a nice-to-have toy.

I also suspect, but have not yet been able to confirm for more than a handful of models, that automotive thermostats have improved in reliability since the 1990's.  The basic control element (the "wax motor" invented by Sergius Vernet and patented in 1938) doesn't really wear out, but thermostat failures often trace back to seals, which are a perennially active area of research.

1970 Continental cluster shown (one can see the volt gauge on the far-left):


1976 Continental cluster:

Neat!

[Max Rockatansky]

^^^^

The only issue for someone like me is that I spend a substantial time on roadways in the mountains where a temperature gauge would be a benefit.  The Sierras have a ton of huge uphill slopes and it would be a benefit to me if I could tell for certain that I needed to ease back or was straining the engine too hard.  Granted, I don't think many people go out with Sonic for a mountain drive and then ride the low gears back down on the 20% grades....suffice to say it probably doesn't make the option viable from a profit standpoint to the automakers.  So yes, I would appreciate the option...sure beats having to step up another class or two with the huge bump in price point just to get access to proper gauges.  The way I see it the Sonic is pretty much a car that you use up and throw in the trash when you're done with it.

[J N Winkler]

The only issue for someone like me is that I spend a substantial time on roadways in the mountains where a temperature gauge would be a benefit.  The Sierras have a ton of huge uphill slopes and it would be a benefit to me if I could tell for certain that I needed to ease back or was straining the engine too hard.  Granted, I don't think many people go out with Sonic for a mountain drive and then ride the low gears back down on the 20% grades....suffice to say it probably doesn't make the option viable from a profit standpoint to the automakers.  So yes, I would appreciate the option...sure beats having to step up another class or two with the huge bump in price point just to get access to proper gauges.  The way I see it the Sonic is pretty much a car that you use up and throw in the trash when you're done with it.

I think the automakers now use things like soft starts for engine fans to control temperature within fairly narrow limits even on long uphill climbs.  In the 2005 Camry I use as a roadtrip vehicle, the temperature needle stays in the middle of the gauge even on long climbs.  On the other hand, the 1994 Saturn I now use as a daily driver has a hard start for the engine fan (the older technology), and I could see the fan cycle on and off on the very long steady climb up Pikes Peak (it is an almost uninterrupted 6% grade).

On the other hand, where automatic transmissions are concerned, there now seems to be a trend toward making smaller and cheaper cars less competent for mountain driving.  The 2009 Honda Fit with five-speed automatic (paddle shifters) did just fine on a trip to Colorado and New Mexico four years ago that included the Million Dollar Highway and long slopes up and down in various places.  On the other hand, I am told newer cars with CVTs make it very hard to develop well-modulated engine braking for descending hills safely at a high but still controlled speed without using the brakes.

[Max Rockatansky]

The only issue for someone like me is that I spend a substantial time on roadways in the mountains where a temperature gauge would be a benefit.  The Sierras have a ton of huge uphill slopes and it would be a benefit to me if I could tell for certain that I needed to ease back or was straining the engine too hard.  Granted, I don't think many people go out with Sonic for a mountain drive and then ride the low gears back down on the 20% grades....suffice to say it probably doesn't make the option viable from a profit standpoint to the automakers.  So yes, I would appreciate the option...sure beats having to step up another class or two with the huge bump in price point just to get access to proper gauges.  The way I see it the Sonic is pretty much a car that you use up and throw in the trash when you're done with it.

I think the automakers now use things like soft starts for engine fans to control temperature within fairly narrow limits even on long uphill climbs.  In the 2005 Camry I use as a roadtrip vehicle, the temperature needle stays in the middle of the gauge even on long climbs.  On the other hand, the 1994 Saturn I now use as a daily driver has a hard start for the engine fan (the older technology), and I could see the fan cycle on and off on the very long steady climb up Pikes Peak (it is an almost uninterrupted 6% grade).

On the other hand, where automatic transmissions are concerned, there now seems to be a trend toward making smaller and cheaper cars less competent for mountain driving.  The 2009 Honda Fit with five-speed automatic (paddle shifters) did just fine on a trip to Colorado and New Mexico four years ago that included the Million Dollar Highway and long slopes up and down in various places.  On the other hand, I am told newer cars with CVTs make it very hard to develop well-modulated engine braking for descending hills safely at a high but still controlled speed without using the brakes.

Ironic you mention Pikes Peak, I drove for the first time in years this summer since I wanted to try it out with asphalt all the way up with a rental Toyota Corrola S..  I did the normal procedure of turning off the AC and rolling the windows down, I could hear the fan click on and off from time to time.  US 550 on the Million Dollar Highway, US 34 with Trail Ridge, and US 212 on the Beartooh were all part of the same trip with no issues there either. 

Something that I noticed with the Sonic though, not only does Sonic use the soft start on the fan while in operation it will do it after the car is turned off for a short while as well on a long uphill climb.  I first noticed it this year after climbing Carson Pass, Mount Rose, and the Geiger Grade in the Sierras.  In the case of the Sonic I find it pretty impressive that it stays cool like that given that it does have a small turbo given that I have the 1.4L.  I've found 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all to be useful in downhill grades for a good 15, 25, 35 MPH split depending on the grade and straightness of the roadway.  I couldn't imagine how bad a CVT would handle something like Pikes Peak or even a Mineral King Road here in California.

Incidentally something interesting I saw in some recent rental cars.  I had a base level Nissan Versa for a car a couple months back.  The thing actually had the L, 1, 2 on the gear selector with no multimatic function.  I had a Buick Enclave for awhile after I mowed a deer down in the Sonic which had an "L" in place of the standard "M."  The funny thing was that the "L" was still just a multimatic but was labeled probably that way for elderly buyers I would surmise.

[Rothman]

The temp gauge also tells you when the engine has really started to warm up for those of us who live where this season exists called winter.  Prevents you from immediately turning on your heater and getting blasted with cold air.  Also agree with Max about mountain driving.

My Elantra has the gauge and I am grateful for it.

[seicer]

On the other hand, where automatic transmissions are concerned, there now seems to be a trend toward making smaller and cheaper cars less competent for mountain driving.  The 2009 Honda Fit with five-speed automatic (paddle shifters) did just fine on a trip to Colorado and New Mexico four years ago that included the Million Dollar Highway and long slopes up and down in various places.  On the other hand, I am told newer cars with CVTs make it very hard to develop well-modulated engine braking for descending hills safely at a high but still controlled speed without using the brakes.

I have a 2016 Subaru Outback (and prior to that, a 2011 model) with a second generation CVT. The 2011 had the first generation CVT. To share some experiences:
* Going down from Clingman's Dome to Gatlinburg, TN in the Great Smoky Mountains requires some use of the brakes around the tightest of corners, but I downshifted successfully for about 90% of the route. What infuriated me was that the vehicles ahead of me - SUV's, just braked almost continuously. They had no idea how to drive and by about half-way down the mountain, I could smell their brakes. They had to pull over and let them cool down. Even if you don't have paddle shifters, you can downshift.
* Going down Mt. Washington's Auto Route was more difficult. I did downshift to first and second gears but had to pull over several times to let the brakes (and my nerves) rest. I laughed at the mandatory requirements for downshifting when I was at the base but they are not kidding around!

[briantroutman]

I still miss the volts and oil pressure gauges some 1980's cars had.

Seems like most pedestrian models of cars really have dropped gauges in favor of warning (idiot) lights). 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but looking back at old car brochures, this doesn't appear to be a new phenomenon–at least with American cars. Particularly from the '60s through the mid '80s, it didn't seem uncommon for a typical mass market Ford or Chevrolet to be equipped with only a speedometer and fuel gauge and rely on tell-tale lights for everything else. Any model with pretense of being a "performance"  car might have full instrumentation, but a great number of work-a-day Impalas and Fairmonts appear to have lumbered through life with only two gauges.

Chrysler products seem to have been the exception in this regard–most pre-K Dodges and Plymouths I've seen were outfitted with an impressive array of instruments, usually including speed, fuel, temp, and alternator.

From what I've seen, the Japanese built their reputation in the US beginning in the '70s not only by the build quality and efficiency of their cars (perceptions that survive today) but also by stuffing their cars with all kinds of extra features, niceties, and gadgetry while keeping prices fairly low. So in addition to features like reclining seatbacks and storage nooks that we take for granted today, most Japanese cars came equipped with four gauges: speed, tach, fuel, and temp.

From the late '80s on, perhaps as a response to the Japanese and changing tastes, the American automakers largely standardized a more generous instrumentation package: speed, fuel, and temp on base models–with tach, oil pressure, and alternator added on higher trim levels. In the past decade, though, it seems like most cars have been reduced to the "Japanese four"  gauges.

But from what I've read, the temp gauge in modern cars isn't much of a gauge anyway. It's been heavily normalized so that it reads at the 12 o'clock position unless the car is either stone cold or nearly overheating. The rationale for this–so I've read–is because if typical American consumers saw the actual fluctuations in running temperature that occur daily, they'd run into the dealer's service department: "...my car's constantly running cool, then warm, then cool...don't tell me they all do that...fix it now."  

I don't know if that's true, but if so, the modern temp gauge is basically an idiot light with a needle. Anything left of center is equivalent to the green "COLD"  idiot light on a '60s Chevy–and anything right of center is the red "HOT"  light.

[J N Winkler]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but looking back at old car brochures, this doesn't appear to be a new phenomenon–at least with American cars. Particularly from the '60s through the mid '80s, it didn't seem uncommon for a typical mass market Ford or Chevrolet to be equipped with only a speedometer and fuel gauge and rely on tell-tale lights for everything else. Any model with pretense of being a "performance"  car might have full instrumentation, but a great number of work-a-day Impalas and Fairmonts appear to have lumbered through life with only two gauges.

I am not familiar enough with instrument panels from that era to evaluate this generalization thoroughly, but it would seem to have numerous exceptions besides Chryslers.  For instance, the 1978 Impala base that was my first car had a temperature gauge in addition to the speedometer and fuel gauge.

From what I've seen, the Japanese built their reputation in the US beginning in the '70s not only by the build quality and efficiency of their cars (perceptions that survive today) but also by stuffing their cars with all kinds of extra features, niceties, and gadgetry while keeping prices fairly low. So in addition to features like reclining seatbacks and storage nooks that we take for granted today, most Japanese cars came equipped with four gauges: speed, tach, fuel, and temp.

There was also a difference in design intent.  For purposes of export to the US market, the Japanese focused on the economy niche for which the US automakers had no competent products, and thus exported cars with high-revving engines for which tachometers make more sense.  In US domestic auto production the low-revving V8 was king.

A couple of things to check out:  did European makers routinely provide tachometers in cars they produced for the US or their domestic markets, and did Japanese makers routinely outfit the premium sedans for their domestic market (e.g. Toyota Crown, Nissan Cedric) with tachometers?

But from what I've read, the temp gauge in modern cars isn't much of a gauge anyway. It's been heavily normalized so that it reads at the 12 o'clock position unless the car is either stone cold or nearly overheating. The rationale for this–so I've read–is because if typical American consumers saw the actual fluctuations in running temperature that occur daily, they'd run into the dealer's service department: "...my car's constantly running cool, then warm, then cool...don't tell me they all do that...fix it now."

This is certainly true for some models, notably the Saturn S-Series.  The first-generation temperature gauge was calibrated so that a wide sweep corresponded to a relatively narrow temperature interval, and the (hard) fan-on point was just below the red markings.  So people would get caught in traffic and see the needle climb all the way to the three-quarters mark (panic!), and then the fan would turn on and drive temperature down almost to the one-quarter mark.  At the other end of the typical engine operating temperature range, the wide sweep created the illusion that dedicated DIYers could rely solely on the gauge to tell when the thermostat is not working (the usual test for first-generation Saturns is needle hanging just past the one-quarter mark instead of just past an imaginary three-eighths mark).

After customer complaints to dealers that I think eventually necessitated issuance of a TSB, later generations received a redesigned gauge with a narrower sweep and more of a gap between the fan-on point and the danger markings.

On the other hand, width of sweep and location of danger markings have become less of an issue now that soft-start fans are more common.  On the 2005 Camry I use as a roadtrip vehicle, unpinning of the needle at C roughly corresponds to the point where the heater will start blowing warm air if the automatic climate control is set to full-hot, and as the engine warms up the needle moves to and then rests almost at the exact middle of the gauge, and hardly ever deviates as long as the engine runs, regardless of ambient temperature, engine load, or percentage of time spent idling in the last quarter-hour.

[GCrites]

I call those "idiot gauges".

[D-Dey65]

The 1980's were a decade of odd gauges--this Tercel had a tilt indicator:

I'm pretty sure gauges like that were mostly for four-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive vehicles, since that version of the Tercel is supposed to be one.

[Max Rockatansky]

The 1980's were a decade of odd gauges--this Tercel had a tilt indicator:

I'm pretty sure gauges like that were mostly for four-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive vehicles, since that version of the Tercel is supposed to be one.

Yes that's true, but I have a glut of 15% plus grade roads where that tilt indicator would be a handy option to have.  The problem in California is that Caltrans and pretty much all the county DOTs are really crappy at giving adequate warnings or supplying data on road grades.  CA 4, CA 108, and Mineral King Road probably have the best signage in the state with Mineral King probably being the best at supplying you with information on what to expect grade wise.

But then again, I know that I'm an overwhelming vast minority looking for trouble in the mountains like I do....much less doing it in a car that was built with commuting in mind.  I think the Challenger would be just fine given the vented Brembo brakes but that poor Sonic definitely needs the transmission to help on anything sustained over 10% for a couple miles.


Incidentally, something completely different from RegularCars: