News:

The AARoads Wiki is live! Come check it out!

Main Menu

Alaskan Way Viaduct Replacement Tunnel

Started by jakeroot, April 21, 2014, 06:29:22 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Bruce

Quote from: Henry on November 25, 2019, 10:09:00 AM
And so the transformation is complete!

One half of it. We're now going to see a few more years of construction so that the waterfront boulevard and promenade can come together. The end result is going to be amazing.





Beltway

Quote from: Bruce on November 25, 2019, 03:01:13 PM
Quote from: Henry on November 25, 2019, 10:09:00 AM
And so the transformation is complete!
One half of it. We're now going to see a few more years of construction so that the waterfront boulevard and promenade can come together. The end result is going to be amazing.
There was a lot of skepticism about this project given the problems encountered in cost overruns and schedule slippages on other such urban tunneling projects, most notably in Boston; and the cost of almost $2 billion.

Looks like it will be a wise investment indeed, given that such tunnels are now designed for a life of 75 years or more.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

mgk920

IMHO, the $3 regular and even cheaper discounted tolls are a bargain for the utility.  That looks to me to be a very handy way to get from one end of town to the other.

Also, I would have kept one of the columns in place as a monument to that trendy mid-20th century nostalgia.

Mike

jakeroot

Quote from: mgk920 on November 26, 2019, 12:35:01 PM
Also, I would have kept one of the columns in place as a monument to that trendy mid-20th century nostalgia.

Leaving the whole viaduct in place would have been insane, but a column or two wouldn't have been unreasonable, and would have been a great bit of history.

Bruce

It would have been possible if that column was renovated to be earthquake-resistant. Can't take any chances.

jakeroot

Quote from: Bruce on November 26, 2019, 02:47:32 PM
It would have been possible if that column was renovated to be earthquake-resistant. Can't take any chances.

Oh, absolutely. A free-standing column without any redundancies to fail "on" is quite dangerous. But re-enforcing one or two columns shouldn't be any more difficult than anything else they're doing along the waterfront. I think the bigger issue is whether any of the columns would be sufficiently far enough out of the way of other plans.

Bruce


compdude787

It truly looks better already! Even that little strip of green grass along the temporary bike path helps a lot.

mrsman

At least based on what's pictured, it seems like they have a lot of room to plan a really nice boulevard.  Are there any available plans as to what the final orientation of the street will look like?

Bruce

Quote from: mrsman on December 01, 2019, 12:15:56 PM
At least based on what's pictured, it seems like they have a lot of room to plan a really nice boulevard.  Are there any available plans as to what the final orientation of the street will look like?

It's all on the Waterfront Seattle website: https://waterfrontseattle.org/waterfront-projects/alaskan-way

Basically, the street will remain 4 lanes and be shifted to the west side of the corridor. The east side of the corridor will have bike lanes, a widened sidewalk promenade, trees, sitting areas, and all the works.

At Pine Street, the Alaskan Way corridor will split with a new street (Elliott Way) traveling up the viaduct ROW under the market. There will also be a nice pedestrian crossing.


X99

Quote from: Bruce on December 01, 2019, 07:05:43 PM
Quote from: mrsman on December 01, 2019, 12:15:56 PM
At least based on what's pictured, it seems like they have a lot of room to plan a really nice boulevard.  Are there any available plans as to what the final orientation of the street will look like?

It's all on the Waterfront Seattle website: https://waterfrontseattle.org/waterfront-projects/alaskan-way

Basically, the street will remain 4 lanes and be shifted to the west side of the corridor. The east side of the corridor will have bike lanes, a widened sidewalk promenade, trees, sitting areas, and all the works.

At Pine Street, the Alaskan Way corridor will split with a new street (Elliott Way) traveling up the viaduct ROW under the market. There will also be a nice pedestrian crossing.


That pedestrian overpass looks pretty interesting. I've only seen one other overpass plan like it.
why are there only like 5 people on this forum from south dakota

Bruce

The "Overlook Walk" is going to be an amazing asset. The eastern (uphill) part will hook into the recently-built MarketFront extension of the Pike Place Market, which is already teeming with traffic. The theater-style seating overlooking the water is going to be very popular during sunsets, and the aquarium is right down below.


TEG24601

I wish they would consider, since they have the space and will, bringing the Waterfront Trolly back as part of this project.  It could even be integrated with Link at Union Station or other locations as part of the project, and provide better access to the waterfront for tourists.
They said take a left at the fork in the road.  I didn't think they literally meant a fork, until plain as day, there was a fork sticking out of the road at a junction.

mrsman

Quote from: TEG24601 on December 05, 2019, 02:36:27 PM
I wish they would consider, since they have the space and will, bringing the Waterfront Trolly back as part of this project.  It could even be integrated with Link at Union Station or other locations as part of the project, and provide better access to the waterfront for tourists.

I agree.  To the north and south of here, Alaskan Way is two lanes in each direction.  Given the amount of space that is now available with the removal of the viaduct, you can maintain 2 travel lanes in each direction, parallel parking, protected bike path, bus lanes, and even rail transit along the corridor.  Extra space can be used to widen sidewalks.

The First Hill Streetcar ends a few blocks away.  A small extension, especially when most of the extension will have its own ROW, would be a great idea.

Bruce

The actual plan is to connect the SLU and First Hill streetcar lines together via a corridor on 1st Avenue. This project (the Center City Connector) has been on hold for a bit because the funding is not locked down and SDOT made a few hiccups in planning and procurement, but should get going soon.

The Waterfront Streetcar should definitely be brought back as a separate line that follows the original route (Alaskan to Main), but there is no longer a place to terminate at ID-Chinatown Station because of the protected bike lane extension there, which also took out the old platform. It would be possible to route it along Jackson and briefly interline (to 8th, where there is a streetcar base), but I fear it would cause congestion with the headways expected on the combined system.

Though all of this could have been avoided in the first place had the streetcar barn not been demolished for the sculpture park. That was a total waste.

TEG24601

Quote from: Bruce on December 05, 2019, 10:37:31 PM
The actual plan is to connect the SLU and First Hill streetcar lines together via a corridor on 1st Avenue. This project (the Center City Connector) has been on hold for a bit because the funding is not locked down and SDOT made a few hiccups in planning and procurement, but should get going soon.

The Waterfront Streetcar should definitely be brought back as a separate line that follows the original route (Alaskan to Main), but there is no longer a place to terminate at ID-Chinatown Station because of the protected bike lane extension there, which also took out the old platform. It would be possible to route it along Jackson and briefly interline (to 8th, where there is a streetcar base), but I fear it would cause congestion with the headways expected on the combined system.

Though all of this could have been avoided in the first place had the streetcar barn not been demolished for the sculpture park. That was a total waste.


Agreed.  The removal of the trolley in the first place was such a short-sighted move.  Of course, they could always have electrically compatible trollies, like Portland had (has?), that could connect to the Link lines, then store the trollies with the streetcars at their depot.  It can't be that hard to do, there just needs to be political will, and money.



They said take a left at the fork in the road.  I didn't think they literally meant a fork, until plain as day, there was a fork sticking out of the road at a junction.

Bruce

Quote from: TEG24601 on December 08, 2019, 12:29:45 PM
Agreed.  The removal of the trolley in the first place was such a short-sighted move.  Of course, they could always have electrically compatible trollies, like Portland had (has?), that could connect to the Link lines, then store the trollies with the streetcars at their depot.  It can't be that hard to do, there just needs to be political will, and money.

Link uses 1500V DC to reduce the number of substations, but this is an unusual configuration that makes it hard to use conventional equipment. The streetcar system could never integrate on that alone, along with there being no real need to connect the two even with an out-of-service track. The Charles Street depot should have enough capacity after its planned expansion and there's always the chance to build another depot in the state-owned land in the viaduct ROW at Railroad Way.

Bruce

WSDOT won its lawsuit against Seattle Tunnel Partners (the project contractor) over the Bertha stall. $57.2 million in damages to be paid back to the state (covering most of the budget appropriation for the delay), plus no need to pay for the overruns that STP will have to be stuck with.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/contractor-ordered-to-pay-state-over-tunnel-boring-machine-berthas-big-stall/

Alps

Quote from: Bruce on December 13, 2019, 07:40:54 PM
WSDOT won its lawsuit against Seattle Tunnel Partners (the project contractor) over the Bertha stall. $57.2 million in damages to be paid back to the state (covering most of the budget appropriation for the delay), plus no need to pay for the overruns that STP will have to be stuck with.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/contractor-ordered-to-pay-state-over-tunnel-boring-machine-berthas-big-stall/
"The jury found that the pipe was not a substantial unexpected underground condition for the boring machine and was not to blame for the machine's breakdown." (another site)
Bullshit. The jury are not engineers. I know engineers who were involved with this project and yes, it was, both substantial and to blame for the breakdown. The grinders were not designed for it. They should appeal.

Beltway

#844
Quote from: Alps on December 14, 2019, 02:20:25 AM
Quote from: Bruce on December 13, 2019, 07:40:54 PM
WSDOT won its lawsuit against Seattle Tunnel Partners (the project contractor) over the Bertha stall. $57.2 million in damages to be paid back to the state (covering most of the budget appropriation for the delay), plus no need to pay for the overruns that STP will have to be stuck with.
"The jury found that the pipe was not a substantial unexpected underground condition for the boring machine and was not to blame for the machine's breakdown." (another site)
Bullshit. The jury are not engineers. I know engineers who were involved with this project and yes, it was, both substantial and to blame for the breakdown. The grinders were not designed for it. They should appeal.
That is a big problem with these urban tunneling projects.

As beneficial as they are in concept, in this case putting the highway underground and enabling the removal of the old waterfront viaduct; when boring a tunnel 100 to 200 feet below the surface, there is no telling what kind of obstacles the TBM may run into, and geological surveys can't (as far as I know) determine in advance that something like that is down there short of making a pilot bore. 

Or what if that they know that there is an old conduit down there but it is so old that they don't know the exact route again short of drilling down there and surveying it.  So to a certain extent they have to take some chances when boring the new tunnel.  I don't blame the contractor for this.  A TBM is not designed to bore thru a large steel reinforced concrete conduit.

http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Bruce

It wasn't a conduit, but an 8-inch steel pipe that was used during the same project to measure groundwater. It was originally feared that Bertha had hit some random artifact from the city's early history (like a buried ship), as the tunneling route went under a bit of landfill.

I'd be glad if the state (and taxpayers) aren't on the hook for paying an extra few hundred million for the screw-up. Otherwise, we'd need to raise the tolls a lot higher (for the few drivers who actually use the tunnel) to pay for it.

There was a 26 percent drop in vehicles using the tunnel since tolling started on November 9, according to WSDOT: https://wsdotblog.blogspot.com/2019/12/traffic-since-sr-99-tolling-started.html

Beltway

Quote from: Bruce on December 14, 2019, 12:28:10 PM
It wasn't a conduit, but an 8-inch steel pipe that was used during the same project to measure groundwater. It was originally feared that Bertha had hit some random artifact from the city's early history (like a buried ship), as the tunneling route went under a bit of landfill.
I'd be glad if the state (and taxpayers) aren't on the hook for paying an extra few hundred million for the screw-up. Otherwise, we'd need to raise the tolls a lot higher (for the few drivers who actually use the tunnel) to pay for it.
Well, it looks like it is a controversial matter.

The liquidated damages clause is written into a contract upfront, and is not a lawsuit per se.

Most often, the term "liquidated damages" appears in a contract, and often is the title for a whole clause or section.  Parties to a contract use liquidated damages where actual damages, though real, are difficult or impossible to prove.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/liquidated_damages

If this article is correct, then the contractor could be responsible to pay liquidated damages in this case, that they did bear responsibility for the pipe.

WSDOT Wins $57.2-Million Against Contractor In Court Case
December 13, 2019

A Thurston County jury Dec. 13 awarded $57.2-million in liquidated damages to the Washington State Dept. of Transportation (WSDOT) in a dispute between the agency and contractor Seattle Tunnel Partners, a joint venture between Dragados USA and Tutor Perini Corp., over a multi-year shutdown of the State Route 99 tunneling project under downtown Seattle after the Hitachi Zosen-made Bertha tunnel-boring machine broke down in Dec. 2013.

The tunneling project, which completed in February 2019, three years behind schedule, began in July 2013.  Bertha, a 57.5-ft-diameter tunnel-boring machine (TBM) overheated and damaged the main bearing seals after hitting an 8-in. steel pipe.  The repair required an 80-ft-wide, 120-ft-deep shaft to bring machine parts to the surface.  It was a two-year fix.  STP sought reimbursement for repair costs and delays and WSDOT sued for a breach of the design-build contract over missing completion deadlines.  STP counter-sued, saying the location of the well pipe wasn't disclosed.  STP filed for $642 million from WSDOT for repair costs and damages, but that number was revised to $330 million ahead of the Oct. 7 trial start date.

During court proceedings, STP admitted it did know about the well, but forgot to mitigate its location before tunneling.  The Thurston County judge sided with WSDOT.

Roger Millar, WSDOT secretary, said in a statement that the contract was structured to place known risks associated with the tunneling on the contractor.  "We believe the jury got it right,"  he said, but noted an appeal is still possible.

During the trial, WSDOT lawyer David Goodnight of Stoel Rives LLP told ENR they were eager to get to trial to seek the full $57.2 million in a verdict.  Lawyers for STP did not respond to requests for comment.  STP's lawsuit against Hitachi-Zosen was settled out of court.  Terms were not disclosed.


https://www.enr.com/articles/48341-wsdot-wins-572-million-against-contractor-in-court-case
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Alps

Okay, the fact that they knew about it and forgot is not something I had ever heard about before. That totally changes my opinion.

Bruce


compdude787

Here's a video I did showing Alaskan Way without the viaduct. Enjoy!




Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.