Fines proportional to income?

[hotdogPi]

One of the most common topics on this forum is about states not having enough funding. What is your opinion on having fines proportional to income (or total wealth), as some European countries do? I support it, although I'm not that familiar with it myself. (What would happen to visitors? College students?)

Of course, not all the money would go to roads (there is no reason for it), but if it's split among several things, roads would get at least some extra income.

[jeffandnicole]

So if you're unemployed,  you can drive around all day without due regard to safety of others, and be given no fine because you have no income?

No.

[hotdogPi]

So if you're unemployed,  you can drive around all day without due regard to safety of others, and be given no fine because you have no income?

No.

The way it works in countries that have implemented it, there's a fixed minimum, and it increases from there.

[formulanone]

The concept of proportional fines isn't going to happen in a land where the wealthiest and most sheltered would get to write the law in the first place. The moment someone gets a $89,000 traffic fine means the law, however well-meaning, wouldn't last two months. It's already bordering on insanity that an single-occupant HOV violation costs $400+ in California. I think we'd wind up with more draconian minimum fines.

We don't even have mandatory minimums for multiple DUI offenses – regardless of class, race, or wealth – something think most can agree with. It's already a proportional system; those with the most money, fame, and means for a good lawyer get the weakest punishments.

[SEWIGuy]

Our tax rates are ridiculously low.  No way proportional fines will be introduced.

[Max Rockatansky]

The about of push back most legislatures would receive makes this a non-starter almost universally in the United States. 

[1995hoo]

Might be questionable whether the courts would permit that under the Fourteenth Amendment.

[SP Cook]

Our tax rates are ridiculously low.  No way proportional fines will be introduced.

Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Fiscal Service
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188

You may write a check for any amount you wish.  If you feel your taxes are too low, by all means, be my guest.

As to the OP's question, of course in most states, including mine, "fines" go to the school board.  Thus the random taxers' scheme involves a nominal fine, and 100s of $$ in "court costs" (for a matter that is only in the most technical way possible even in court) which go things like "police training fund" (drunken party), "police equipment time" (buy more toys), etc.  A proportional "fine" would just encourage more traffic "work" and less serious useful policing.  Thus it is the exact opposite of what we should be doing, which is raising speed limits and redirecting cops to places where actual crimes are committed.

[Brandon]

Might be questionable whether the courts would permit that under the Fourteenth Amendment.

I don't think they'd mass muster under the equal protection clause.

[kphoger]

The concept of proportional fines isn't going to happen in a land where the wealthiest and most sheltered would get to write the law in the first place.

Are you suggesting that, in countries that do have this system in place, the laws were written by the poor and the outcast?

[hbelkins]

Our tax rates are ridiculously low.

Our tax rates are ridiculously low high.

FIFY.

[Max Rockatansky]

Our tax rates are ridiculously low.

Our tax rates are ridiculously low high.

FIFY.

Part of what I asked for during my transfer back to California was a 12% raise because of the high state income tax.  Some states might be fairly well off on overall taxes but a handful like California and New York sure aren't among them. 

[Roadgeekteen]

Our tax rates are ridiculously low.

Our tax rates are ridiculously low high.

FIFY.

High taxes and we still can't spend them on things that matter.

[Bruce]

We have high regressive taxes (like sales tax) and low taxes on everything that really matters. Reverting to the mid-20th century tax structure, which had high rates for very high earners would allow us to afford all the social programs that the U.S. needs to save itself.

[Roadgeekteen]

We have high regressive taxes (like sales tax) and low taxes on everything that really matters. Reverting to the mid-20th century tax structure, which had high rates for very high earners would allow us to afford all the social programs that the U.S. needs to save itself.

Doesn't the US spend like a ton of money per capita on healthcare and it's still trash?

[Max Rockatansky]

We have high regressive taxes (like sales tax) and low taxes on everything that really matters. Reverting to the mid-20th century tax structure, which had high rates for very high earners would allow us to afford all the social programs that the U.S. needs to save itself.

Doesn't the US spend like a ton of money per capita on healthcare and it's still trash?

Pretty much:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/08/08/how-us-healthcare-spending-per-capita-compares-with-other-countries-infographic/#4e9e5cd1575d

Or at least it isn't too the level of many of those countries on the same list, still far from stuff like blood letting or leeches.  There is a red tape in the medical fields and lots of other problems that contribute to the high cost of health care in the U.S. 

[SectorZ]

We have high regressive taxes (like sales tax) and low taxes on everything that really matters. Reverting to the mid-20th century tax structure, which had high rates for very high earners would allow us to afford all the social programs that the U.S. needs to save itself.

Doesn't the US spend like a ton of money per capita on healthcare and it's still trash?

It's not trash. You live within spitting distance of a dozen hospitals that are all world-renowned.

People's ability to not put down the fork, cigarette, or drink is the problem, a problem much less of one in other countries.

[Max Rockatansky]

We have high regressive taxes (like sales tax) and low taxes on everything that really matters. Reverting to the mid-20th century tax structure, which had high rates for very high earners would allow us to afford all the social programs that the U.S. needs to save itself.

Doesn't the US spend like a ton of money per capita on healthcare and it's still trash?

It's not trash. You live within spitting distance of a dozen hospitals that are all world-renowned.

People's ability to not put down the fork, cigarette, or drink is the problem, a problem much less of one in other countries.

But nobody wants to hear that they are often the source of their own health problems...  More strange to me is that a lot of people refuse to believe that they can be the source of their salvation in terms of their own health if they simply became committed to do something about it.

[Brandon]

We have high regressive taxes (like sales tax) and low taxes on everything that really matters. Reverting to the mid-20th century tax structure, which had high rates for very high earners would allow us to afford all the social programs that the U.S. needs to save itself.

You obviously don't live in Illinois.  We have high sales taxes, high property taxes, and the income tax is nothing to sneeze at either.  Yet we seem to get little for them.  Of course, with almost 8,000 governmental units, most of the taxes go to overhead.

[SSOWorld]

Political topics are not allowed and this is one - This gets toxic very fast - locked