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Author Topic: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.  (Read 91760 times)

sparker

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #225 on: April 01, 2018, 09:27:01 PM »

The laws that created the 90-10 formula and the late 1960s additions with same had mileage ceilings which have been reached.

The 1968 additional mileage law had far more requests from the states than the ~1000 miles that were ultimately funded that way.  Thus, states that wanted to build these extra miles of interstate beyond the 1968 mileage cap had to foot the whole bill.

It would require new congressional action to have another 90-10 (or any other fraction) split.  Note Congress could do this as a blanket mileage thing or even on a specific project - I-95 (now I-395) in the area of the Pentagon was funded at a 95-5 ratio by specific congressional action so that Virginia would take over this highway from the Bureau of Public Roads which built the roads in the vicinity of the Pentagon originally in the 1940s.

The original '68 addition legislation funded 4500 miles and was introduced at the beginning of the Congressional session that year.  But the "Tet offensive" of the Vietnam conflict happened in the interim, so domestic funding was curtailed and shunted over to DOD for counteroffensive purposes.  That left states scrambling for the (eventually) 1500 miles authorized that year, so a number of proposals (including among others the now-I-49 corridor & an I-40 west extension in CA) were cut loose.  And 5 years later the rules were changed, prompted by the Nixonian "block grant" approach that relocated both impetus and responsibility to the individual states, effectively blocking the possibility of future "omnibus" Interstate legislation authorizing a 90% Federal share of the costs.  And successive Congresses, regardless of which party is in control, haven't seen fit to change that system.  There isn't a specific "mileage cap" beyond the original 42.5K (with the '68 additions) authorized to receive the 90/10 split; the system now sits at around 47K -- but absent any guaranteed funding pool, proposals for additions are at state/local option, presently capped (unless specific legislation indicates otherwise) at 80/20.  And both portions of that fraction are troublesome -- getting the 80 through Congress is no picnic, while the problems endemic to raising the remaining 20 has crashed many a corridor concept.   Given present Federal circumstances, it's difficult to see a "blanket" reiteration of anything resembling the original Interstate authorizing legislation or even the additions 12 years down the line happening anytime soon.     
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Grzrd

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #226 on: July 30, 2018, 11:17:03 AM »

This July 24 article reports that Horry County has pledged $23 million per year for 20 years to help pay for I-73, partially in anticipation of the Trump infrastructure plan:

Quote
Horry County Council plans to annually set aside at least $23 million for Interstate 73 over the next two decades ....
Local officials stressed that timing is critical with federal lawmakers planning to focus on an infrastructure bill next year. President Donald Trump’s $200 billion infrastructure plan prioritizes projects with greater local and state investment, and county leaders want to secure federal funds to match their contribution. They hope the matching money could be used to build the road to I-95.
“All the stars are lined up to move this forward,” Lazarus said. “They’re going to be debating this this coming year. … It is an important piece for us to move forward, to put our money where our mouth is and to show that we are in favor of I-73 and that we’re ready to move forward with this. … This is the time to make that happen.” ....
SCDOT already has the permits for the state’s portion of I-73, though the project is being challenged in federal court by environmentalists.
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LM117

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #227 on: September 27, 2018, 06:49:11 AM »

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sprjus4

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #229 on: February 05, 2019, 04:24:24 PM »

https://www.wbtw.com/news/grand-strand/federal-judge-rules-conservation-group-s-claims-against-i-73-project-will-stay/1754408163
Nothing but obstruction, obstruction, obstruction. These environmental groups will hopefully be defeated eventually. They only help to ruin needed projects, so the little swamp survives, even though a sliver of it will be crossed. Even after permits are issued, they still try. It's really sad.

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Beltway

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #230 on: February 05, 2019, 06:59:47 PM »

https://www.wbtw.com/news/grand-strand/federal-judge-rules-conservation-group-s-claims-against-i-73-project-will-stay/1754408163
Nothing but obstruction, obstruction, obstruction. These environmental groups will hopefully be defeated eventually. They only help to ruin needed projects, so the little swamp survives, even though a sliver of it will be crossed. Even after permits are issued, they still try. It's really sad.

Radical environmentalist/transit groups (RE/T Groups) tend to be obstructionists.  Groups like the Sierra KKKlub tend to think that humans are cancer and that many should be eradicated from the Earth.
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sprjus4

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #231 on: February 05, 2019, 07:21:24 PM »

https://www.wbtw.com/news/grand-strand/federal-judge-rules-conservation-group-s-claims-against-i-73-project-will-stay/1754408163
Nothing but obstruction, obstruction, obstruction. These environmental groups will hopefully be defeated eventually. They only help to ruin needed projects, so the little swamp survives, even though a sliver of it will be crossed. Even after permits are issued, they still try. It's really sad.

Radical environmentalist/transit groups (RE/T Groups) tend to be obstructionists.  Groups like the Sierra KKKlub tend to think that humans are cancer and that many should be eradicated from the Earth.
Army Corps already issue a permit back in Summer 2017, and they still think their "expressway" upgrade would be adequate, and will stop at nothing to prevent a freeway. Hopefully I-73 gets built eventually. https://www.postandcourier.com/news/interstate-permits-challenged-by-south-carolina-environmentalists-in-federal-filing/article_bd3b6fe8-e1d4-11e7-aa6c-83a4720e74f5.html

The new interstate would be built with a 94 foot median, wide enough to accommodate a 6th lane in the future (when traffic warrants), and still have a 70 foot median.

The existing highway is inadequate, most of it carries 20,000 AADT, around 30,000 AADT before the Conway Bypass. Factor summer weekend traffic, that's likely higher. The traffic is around 12,000 AADT on the bypass, and 50,000 through Conway. This is because most traffic is heading towards the heart of Myrtle Beach, and the bypass is out of the way. I-73 would be located north of the existing corridor though, and would tie into the bypass, making it more direct for those southern Myrtle Beach bound folks, significantly relieving congestion inside Conway, and on the existing US 501 corridor itself.

An "expressway" upgrade would be a waste of money and not solve any of the issues, especially through Conway. There's also flooding issues on the highway, which was underwater during Hurricane Florence. The highway would have a higher elevation, would less likely flood as severely (then again, the newer 1990s portion of I-40 was a river outside Wilmington), and provide a better evacuation route. Not to mention, the I-73 concept goes beyond I-95 to Myrtle Beach. It would tie into North Carolina's I-73, and eventually Virginia's, creating an interstate corridor from Myrtle Beach / I-95 to Roanoke / I-81. An expressway upgrade would not do any of this.
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sprjus4

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #232 on: July 24, 2019, 10:48:42 AM »

Editorial: South Carolina doesn’t need any new interstates
Quote
The Myrtle Beach Area Chamber of Commerce sent out a news release recently touting the not-particularly surprising news that Horry County residents and chamber members support the chamber’s top legislative priority: squandering billions of mostly federal dollars on a new interstate to the beach that would destroy sensitive wetlands and run parallel to an existing freeway.

Of course, the chamber didn’t describe the long-fantasized Interstate 73 that way. And touting the local support seems a little less bizarre in light of the fight that’s playing out between the Horry County Council and the cities of Myrtle Beach, North Myrtle Beach and Surfside Beach over whether they’ll continue to pledge $23 million a year in hospitality tax revenue to the project. The cities say they still support the project but have better uses for their tax money.

And that’s one of the points: Just as the cities are happy to have a new interstate if someone else pays for it, we suspect that you’d find less support among residents — and even among businesses — if you asked them to underwrite the entire cost of running a new interstate 75 miles from the North Carolina border to Myrtle Beach, set by some projections as high as $4 billion. (We suspect that if you asked those same residents if the chamber’s members should pay all of the taxes for local government services, they’d support that idea as well.)

Currently, there are no plans to spend state funds on I-73. But the local governments are feuding over how to come up with annual payments that are less than 1 percent of the projected cost in current dollars — which suggests that state funds eventually will be expected. And of course the project relies heavily on federal funds, which we all help pay for.

The fact that 80 percent or even 100 percent of Horry County residents want the rest of us to pay for an unnecessarily expensive and environmentally destructive highway is not particularly relevant to whether the state Transportation Department should continue to facilitate the plan. The question isn’t whether locals like the idea but whether it’s a good investment for our state.

It’s probably true that Horry County could use better evacuation routes. But just as Charleston County could get a lot more bang for its buck by investing in, say, flood mitigation, instead of the similarly unnecessary and expensive I-526 extension, Horry County could upgrade the S.C. 38-U.S. 501 corridor to be as useful as an interstate for $147 million to $428 million, according to 2011 projections. Even if you figure the cost has possibly doubled in the past eight years, that’s still just a fraction of the cost of the interstate.

Those savings would be reason enough to abandon the interstate dream even if that were the only consideration. It’s not. Like I-526, the proposed I-73 carries a huge environmental cost.

Environmentalists say construction would impact 324 acres of wetlands and other protected aquatic areas, including the Little Pee Dee Heritage Preserve and Wildlife Management Area, which includes land along the Little Pee Dee River in Marion and Horry counties; it would cut off an important corridor for black bears and fragment other valuable wildlife habitat.

And with a decades-long backlog of crumbling roads and bridges, our state has more crucial uses for our limited road funds, which already are spread too thin because we’ve spent decades building new roads without considering how to come up with the money to keep them in safe working order.

I put everything in the article that is false in bold text. Just another RE/T obstructionist. The amount of false information they've provided and believe from other RE/T obstructionists is quite sad. Maybe if they actually stuck with the facts and not low-balled cost estimates from a RE/T group, they'd see how their claims are quickly killed. Like for instance, their claim that US-501 is a freeway. If that was actually true, I wouldn't support building a new interstate either. But the fact is, US-501 is a non-limited-access arterial highway with congestion issues, and substandard design. An interstate highway is warranted, especially during peak weekends.

It's even better how the picture in the article shows a freeway-like section of roadway with an exit sign and shows traffic backed up and pushes the claim - "Afternoon traffic backs up on U.S. 501 headed into Myrtle Beach. Local business leaders and politicians want to build a new Interstate 73 to the beach rather than upgrade existing freeways to alleviate traffic." Again, they want people to believe it's an existing freeway when in fact it's -not-.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 10:53:11 AM by sprjus4 »
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wdcrft63

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #233 on: July 24, 2019, 06:58:32 PM »

The author of this editorial must have never been to Myrtle Beach via US 501.
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Strider

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #234 on: July 24, 2019, 08:28:47 PM »

The author of this editorial must have never been to Myrtle Beach via US 501.


Exactly my thoughts. Most of the opponents have not driven on US 501 during beach rush hour. They just don't know that if SCDOT just widen its current routing, the traffic nightmare will still remain. Building I-73 will do wonders.
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Beltway

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #235 on: July 24, 2019, 10:51:17 PM »

Just another RE/T obstructionist. The amount of false information they've provided and believe from other RE/T obstructionists is quite sad. Maybe if they actually stuck with the facts and not low-balled cost estimates from a RE/T group, they'd see how their claims are quickly killed.

What about the Sierra KKKlub ... do you think that they are involved with the obsties?  Does the Sierra KKKlub really believe that human beings are cancer?   If man went to Mars, does the Sierra KKKlub think that humans would destroy Mars like they destroyed the Earth and Venus?
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Rothman

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #236 on: July 24, 2019, 10:53:13 PM »

Somebody call Beltway's nurse and tell her he's gotten into the liquor cabinet again.
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Beltway

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #237 on: July 24, 2019, 10:56:45 PM »

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx

Belay that.  My questions were directed to Sprjus4, not to Rothman.
 
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 11:43:18 PM by Beltway »
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NE2

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #238 on: July 25, 2019, 02:22:58 PM »

KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
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Rothman

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #239 on: July 25, 2019, 02:26:15 PM »

xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxx

Belay that.  My questions were directed to Sprjus4, not to Rothman.
Hm.  I thought it was a fun rebuttal.
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tolbs17

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #240 on: July 28, 2019, 01:50:56 AM »

I-73 would be used as a nice hurricane evacuation route. I-74, dunno. I guess it's just an extra interstate in South Carolina.
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sprjus4

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #241 on: July 28, 2019, 01:54:42 AM »

I-73 would be used as a nice hurricane evacuation route. I-74, dunno. I guess it's just an extra interstate in South Carolina.
I-74 in South Carolina is a joke IMO. To be fair, the whole I-74 numbering is a joke, but if it's going to go anywhere, it should be Wilmington, not some last minute right angle dip down to Myrtle Beach.
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tolbs17

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #242 on: July 28, 2019, 10:29:21 AM »

I-73 would be used as a nice hurricane evacuation route. I-74, dunno. I guess it's just an extra interstate in South Carolina.
I-74 in South Carolina is a joke IMO. To be fair, the whole I-74 numbering is a joke, but if it's going to go anywhere, it should be Wilmington, not some last minute right angle dip down to Myrtle Beach.

Yeah. I-74 goes in a weird direction. What is NCDOT thinking?
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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #243 on: July 28, 2019, 09:07:18 PM »

I-73 would be used as a nice hurricane evacuation route. I-74, dunno. I guess it's just an extra interstate in South Carolina.
I-74 in South Carolina is a joke IMO. To be fair, the whole I-74 numbering is a joke, but if it's going to go anywhere, it should be Wilmington, not some last minute right angle dip down to Myrtle Beach.

Yeah. I-74 goes in a weird direction. What is NCDOT thinking?
They were probably thinking "what the heck was Congress thinking when they assigned this completely illogical route for the end of I-74?".
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tolbs17

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #244 on: July 28, 2019, 09:12:38 PM »

I-73 would be used as a nice hurricane evacuation route. I-74, dunno. I guess it's just an extra interstate in South Carolina.
I-74 in South Carolina is a joke IMO. To be fair, the whole I-74 numbering is a joke, but if it's going to go anywhere, it should be Wilmington, not some last minute right angle dip down to Myrtle Beach.

Yeah. I-74 goes in a weird direction. What is NCDOT thinking?
They were probably thinking "what the heck was Congress thinking when they assigned this completely illogical route for the end of I-74?".

Just put it in Wilmington. South Carolina is already getting I-73, no need for that state to have two interstates. I have no problem with Wilmington getting two interstates.
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vdeane

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #245 on: July 28, 2019, 09:44:19 PM »

The number and corridor were set in federal law by Congress.  Congress would have to change the law to send I-74 to Wilmington.
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tolbs17

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #246 on: July 28, 2019, 09:49:16 PM »

The number and corridor were set in federal law by Congress.  Congress would have to change the law to send I-74 to Wilmington.

Let's hope that would happen at least. It isn't really a freeway at the 140 interchange so they would need to fix that part.
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sparker

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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #247 on: July 29, 2019, 03:57:46 AM »

I-73 would be used as a nice hurricane evacuation route. I-74, dunno. I guess it's just an extra interstate in South Carolina.
I-74 in South Carolina is a joke IMO. To be fair, the whole I-74 numbering is a joke, but if it's going to go anywhere, it should be Wilmington, not some last minute right angle dip down to Myrtle Beach.

Yeah. I-74 goes in a weird direction. What is NCDOT thinking?
They were probably thinking "what the heck was Congress thinking when they assigned this completely illogical route for the end of I-74?".

NC's congressional delegation back in 1995 -- or at least those from some coastal districts -- were probably thinking "why don't we get in on the Myrtle Beach action and try to develop our coastline from Sunset Beach to Southport just like the guys down across the line" -- and they wanted a direct Interstate corridor, which ended up being along NC 211 -- to expedite all this.  Of course, they needed some level of cooperation from their SC cohorts, so they simply did the 90-degree turn at Supply and headed toward Myrtle. 
The number and corridor were set in federal law by Congress.  Congress would have to change the law to send I-74 to Wilmington.

Let's hope that would happen at least. It isn't really a freeway at the 140 interchange so they would need to fix that part.

During the ensuing years, that particular corridor concept has gotten the "WTF?" treatment from several directions, not the least of whom are Green Swamp-saving environmentalists.  The scenario that's likely to happen is this:  NCDOT will build the freeway east along US 74 to Bolton and simply stop it there.  Then they'll wait until public outcry from Wilmington interests to "finish the job" reaches a high level, then by hook or crook sneak a HPC #5 route revision into Federal legislation within an annual funding bill (S.O.P. these days!), and, presto, I-74 will terminate at either I-140 or the Cape Fear River bridge.   SC will piss & moan, of course, so US 17 from Wilmington down to SC 31, and that route itself, will receive another designation (my money's on a southern I-97, which would remain in "future" status for the near term).   The southern NC coast will remain as is -- it isn't a continuous beach anyway, so Myrtle-type development wouldn't likely have occurred.  Just as well -- the world doesn't need another 150 shops selling graphic T-shirts!     
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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #248 on: August 08, 2019, 09:05:48 AM »

Just another RE/T obstructionist. The amount of false information they've provided and believe from other RE/T obstructionists is quite sad. Maybe if they actually stuck with the facts and not low-balled cost estimates from a RE/T group, they'd see how their claims are quickly killed.

What about the Sierra KKKlub ... do you think that they are involved with the obsties?  Does the Sierra KKKlub really believe that human beings are cancer?   If man went to Mars, does the Sierra KKKlub think that humans would destroy Mars like they destroyed the Earth and Venus?

Venus? What have we done to Venus?
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Re: I-73 & I-74 in S.C.
« Reply #249 on: August 08, 2019, 09:32:23 AM »

Just another RE/T obstructionist. The amount of false information they've provided and believe from other RE/T obstructionists is quite sad. Maybe if they actually stuck with the facts and not low-balled cost estimates from a RE/T group, they'd see how their claims are quickly killed.
What about the Sierra KKKlub ... do you think that they are involved with the obsties?  Does the Sierra KKKlub really believe that human beings are cancer?   If man went to Mars, does the Sierra KKKlub think that humans would destroy Mars like they destroyed the Earth and Venus?
Venus? What have we done to Venus?

Turned it from a rainy forested planet to a runaway greenhouse effect and barrenness, with 600 F temperatures at the surface, enough to melt lead.
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