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architect77:

--- Quote from: Rothman on June 11, 2021, 10:40:18 AM ---
--- Quote from: roadman65 on June 11, 2021, 10:12:44 AM ---

What is up here preventing a right turn through the piece of road intended for it?

This ramp end at I-95 N Bound Exit 29 makes traffic pass through the intersection rather than bypass it with an easier merge.

--- End quote ---
Must have been problematic somehow given traffic volumes at the merge.  Had to use the light to meter and a few pylons were a lot cheaper than ripping out pavement.

--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: ran4sh on May 30, 2021, 08:18:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 30, 2021, 07:19:21 PM ---So then why is North Carolina able to build more freeways?

--- End quote ---

It should also be noted that that's only really true in the past 2 decades. Before NC's recent freeway construction, Georgia had more miles, and definitely more lane miles, of freeway. NC has nothing matching Georgia's "Freeing the Freeways" project from the 80s.


--- Quote from: Dirt Roads on May 30, 2021, 07:56:23 PM ---Also, North Carolina ranks #13 highest in fuel excise taxes $0.3635 per gallon (but not so much more than Georgia #23 at $0.3220 per gallon).

--- End quote ---

Georgia had a recent increase in its fuel tax. For a long time Georgia was known as the state with the lowest fuel taxes in the Southeast.

--- End quote ---

I moved here right at the completion of freeing the freeways and it was too fabulous for words.

But using statistics only doesn't tell the true story. As for official interstate miles Georgia did have more miles as the largest state East of the Mississippi.

And for lane miles, if metro Atlanta's 5 and 6 lane portions of the freeway system, which in fact are deceivingly less than you might think given that only the connector, I-85 North I-285 Top End and I-75 North are the only really wide sections....

are fully weighted in the lane mile category, then yes Georgia has plenty.

However anyone judging these lane miles today would reduce them by a percentage because as we all know one slowdown or fender bender will stop the flow of all the lanes, and thus there is a diminishing return on lanes after the first four.

They are less effective in moving vehicles than the same number of lanes miles on separate roads.

But the biggest point I want to make is the thousands and thousands of miles of 4-lane, divided highways in NC (its default ideal road design) that are NEAR INTERSTATE QUALITY.

If you account for those then NC will have double or triple the amount of partially-limited access highways, that in essence, move traffic like interstate highways.

I think that NC  must not raising gas tax right now as a gift during the pandemic despite their funds being at an all-time low.

It's hard to compare gas taxes even with the internet because of phrases like "excise" which in Georgia may go to the counties, while NCDOT gets all the money and does all the maintenance on over 80,000 miles miles of roads.

GDOT maintains 35,000-40,000 miles and the rest is up to inidividual municipalities and counties.

NC has been aggressively building new roads since the 80s when I-40 finally reached Raleigh and then to Wilmington.

NCDOT recently was awarded about 10 new interstates numbers as it upgrades the above mentioned "near interstate quality" divided highways to full interstate standards. Some include I-87, I-42, I-74, I-73, and then the many spurs like I-885, I-840.

Dirt Roads:

--- Quote from: architect77 on June 17, 2021, 02:41:16 AM ---But the biggest point I want to make is the thousands and thousands of miles of 4-lane, divided highways in NC (its default ideal road design) that are NEAR INTERSTATE QUALITY.

--- End quote ---

Indeed, but the highway system in and around Atlanta is significantly more complex than Charlotte and Raleigh (combined), and GDOT has made a lot of highway improvements in the Atlanta Metro over the same timeframe.  My argument against comparing Georgia to North Carolina is that one is Atlanta-centric and the other is fairly balanced Rural/Urban...  ...in pretty much every area of life.  My aunt lived in Stone Mountain on two occasions, and I have worked in Atlanta a fair amount.   Quite frankly, I love Atlanta but I wouldn't want to live there.

sprjus4:

--- Quote from: architect77 on June 17, 2021, 01:51:01 AM ---As for NC, they have a lot of maintenance needs across the state with many damaged signs etc. There are few sections of I-85 that remain 4 lanes, about 40 miles between Durham and the VA State line, about !5 at the SC State line, and only an 8 mile stretch between Durham and the merging of I-40/ I-85 duplex.
--- End quote ---
That segment of I-85 north of Durham doesnít really need widening, IMOÖ low traffic volumes overall (under 30,000 IIRC) and not any heavy truck percentages. It seems adequate with 4 lanes, even during peak travel periods. I-95 is a much more pressing issue, with 40,000-60,000 AADT and significantly higher on peak weekends and travel periods. The entire segment between the South Carolina / Georgia state line and VA I-295 needs a minimum of 3 lanes in each direction.

architect77:

--- Quote from: Dirt Roads on June 17, 2021, 01:40:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: architect77 on June 17, 2021, 02:41:16 AM ---But the biggest point I want to make is the thousands and thousands of miles of 4-lane, divided highways in NC (its default ideal road design) that are NEAR INTERSTATE QUALITY.

--- End quote ---

Indeed, but the highway system in and around Atlanta is significantly more complex than Charlotte and Raleigh (combined), and GDOT has made a lot of highway improvements in the Atlanta Metro over the same timeframe.  My argument against comparing Georgia to North Carolina is that one is Atlanta-centric and the other is fairly balanced Rural/Urban...  ...in pretty much every area of life.  My aunt lived in Stone Mountain on two occasions, and I have worked in Atlanta a fair amount.   Quite frankly, I love Atlanta but I wouldn't want to live there.

--- End quote ---

If there ever were two states difficult to compare it is NC and Georgia. They dovetail one another in countless ways. NC has robust systems to keep small towns moving forward, and it is a powerful state from hundreds of small towns collectively.

Georgia has very rural expanses populated by citizens that donít want any of the stuff Rural NC begs for. It does ďbig cityĒ  dry well, and the infrastructure it does build is meant to be big and unmistakably like a big, world city.

And while NC tried to keep up with the Northeastern states by being known as
Having the best and most miles of paved roads early on, Georgia didnít establish that same precedent and was more of a capital of the Deep South. Just look at the countyís city halls and courthouses which are beautiful and ornate symbols of Southern culture.

But back to highways, donít think that all of the metroís roads are similar and resemble North Fulton or Gwinnett. Last week I was driving in Conyers at night and it was downright barbaric. GA20, which follows a path that would be spot on for and outer perimeter, was dark and dangerous with insufficient shoulders, abrupt inclines and declines, and even the overpasses over I-20 are the bare minimum 60s designs and are not suitable for a 7 million population region.

GDOT ignores 60% of the metro because it is minority populated. And I hate that no one in those communities demand for better conditions.

Like I say Georgia builds very different-looking infrastructure usually going for one big bold stroke and thatís it. That big city aesthetic likely wouldnít fly in NC where the local community small scale infrastructure rules, much like Florida save for South Florida.

I heard Peachtree St is getting a makeover, going to check that out.



architect77:

--- Quote from: Dirt Roads on June 17, 2021, 01:40:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: architect77 on June 17, 2021, 02:41:16 AM ---But the biggest point I want to make is the thousands and thousands of miles of 4-lane, divided highways in NC (its default ideal road design) that are NEAR INTERSTATE QUALITY.

--- End quote ---

Indeed, but the highway system in and around Atlanta is significantly more complex than Charlotte and Raleigh (combined), and GDOT has made a lot of highway improvements in the Atlanta Metro over the same timeframe.  My argument against comparing Georgia to North Carolina is that one is Atlanta-centric and the other is fairly balanced Rural/Urban...  ...in pretty much every area of life.  My aunt lived in Stone Mountain on two occasions, and I have worked in Atlanta a fair amount.   Quite frankly, I love Atlanta but I wouldn't want to live there.

--- End quote ---

Iím going to let these images from TMobile do the talking.  Metro Atlanta maybe more complex, but how much of it was thought out and studied and how much was just sprawl guided by development wothout anyone looking at the big picture.

If you want connectivity which offers multiple alternates to get anywhere, then Raleigh, though small, seems to stand out.

These are all at the same scale:

atl by Stephen Edwards, on Flickr


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