Topic: Georgia (Read 485502 times)

Chris · « **on:** January 28, 2009, 10:42:52 AM »

I was thinking about Atlanta, and decided to check it out better on Google Earth. The city's urbanized area is just massive. It generally sprawls 30 miles from the city center in all directions, with some areas being as far as 50 miles from downtown (Gainesville, Canton).

I was wondering, since the suburbanization of Atlanta didn't really stop at the perimeter (I-285), isn't there a need for a second, much larger beltway? I measured it on Google Earth, and came out with this. Remember, some areas would still be outside this second beltway, especially in the north.

DAL764 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 28, 2009, 10:52:51 AM »

There have been plenty of proposals to build another larger beltway for Atlanta over the years, but so far all have been shot down for the usual reasons:
-Everyone complaining about costs
-Treehuggers complaining about trees having to be cut down
-NIMBYs complaining about the noise and pollution threat

I'm not sure how/where traffic flows on I-285, but IMHO building at least some 'short cuts' instead of a whole beltway might be an easier solution for now. Granted, it's been a while since I last drove on I-285, but I remember from most experiences that I-285 in the region around the airport is just a huge clusterfvck that desperately needs some support, say from a partial beltway from I-85 eastwards to I-20 for starters.

Chris · « **Reply #2 on:** January 28, 2009, 10:57:18 AM »

Quote

-Treehuggers complaining about trees having to be cut down

Doesn't matter much for those trees if they're cut down for suburbs or for freeways... However, classical objections ofcourse. And in meantime, Atlanta really doesn't stop growing. I wonder where it ends, at the current growth pace, it would be a matter of time before whole northern Georgia is one big urban area.

Bryant5493 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 28, 2009, 11:34:30 AM »

That would be a good idea, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Be well,

Bryant

Alex · « **Reply #4 on:** January 28, 2009, 12:08:37 PM »

Well be prepared for a barrage of sprawl along the southwest corridor of Interstate 85. GADOT is presently eight-laning a 29-mile section with ultimate plans to have the entire freeway eight-lanes between Interstate 185 and Interstate 285! Presently a good portion of that corridor is rural, but with an eight-lane freeway now in town, that land will become that much more lucrative for future development. Its sad to see that politicians really have no clue as to planning in that area.

Bryant5493 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 28, 2009, 01:12:20 PM »

^^ Okay, I saw the eight-laning between SR 74 and north of SR 54/100. Didn't know they were going down pass the weigh station.

Be well,

Bryant

Chris · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2009, 05:31:26 PM »

Also something I noticed about the Downtown Connector in Atlanta:

Traffic volumes!

2007: 288,000
2006: 283,000
2005: 323,000
2004: 349,000
2003: 314,000

How come the traffic volumes dropped significantly in an urban area that gained hundreds of thousands of inhabitants in the same time?

flaroads · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2009, 06:10:27 PM »

Maybe due to sprawl?? As the sprawl moves outward more and more people don't commute into the city as often, they just stay in their sprawled out areas.

DAL764 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2009, 11:38:18 AM »

Quote from: Chris on January 28, 2009, 05:31:26 PM

How come the traffic volumes dropped significantly in an urban area that gained hundreds of thousands of inhabitants in the same time?

Improved connections and service on MARTA

.

Bryant5493 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 01, 2009, 12:10:31 PM »

Quote from: DAL764 on January 29, 2009, 11:38:18 AM

Quote from: Chris on January 28, 2009, 05:31:26 PM
How come the traffic volumes dropped significantly in an urban area that gained hundreds of thousands of inhabitants in the same time?
Improved connections and service on MARTA .

Ha! You're joking, you gotta be.

Be well,

Bryant

DAL764 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 01, 2009, 05:26:49 PM »

Quote from: Bryant5493 on February 01, 2009, 12:10:31 PM

Quote from: DAL764 on January 29, 2009, 11:38:18 AM
Improved connections and service on MARTA .

Ha! You're joking, you gotta be.

No, I'm serious, they now even provide on-board entertainment

:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NZtGz_7WI0

Bryant5493 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 01, 2009, 08:30:27 PM »

^^ I saw that. That was the funniest thing I've seen, although it's sad that young lady has a problem.

--

Oh, and my previous comment was meant to be tongue-in-cheek: I borrowed the line from "Oogie Boogie Song," from "The Nightmare Before Christmas."

Be well,

Bryant

lamsalfl · « **Reply #12 on:** February 02, 2009, 03:44:25 AM »

Don't worry. When gas is back to $4 or higher, they'll come back to the cities.

Chris · « **Reply #13 on:** February 02, 2009, 03:55:48 AM »

I wouldn't be too sure about that... Gas jumped from $ 6 to $ 10 in the Netherlands and people didn't drive less. Only the economic crisis (which hit us mostly after the summer peaks) caused some decrease in miles driven. Mobility is a basic need, people cut back on other things.

Urban Prairie Schooner · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2009, 08:53:03 PM »

Quote from: aaroads on January 28, 2009, 12:08:37 PM

Well be prepared for a barrage of sprawl along the southwest corridor of Interstate 85. GADOT is presently eight-laning a 29-mile section with ultimate plans to have the entire freeway eight-lanes between Interstate 185 and Interstate 285!

pippin2424 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2009, 12:29:34 AM »

The biggest plan right now for an outer highway is between 75 and 85 in the north to follow GA route 20 from Buford to Cartersville...still a long way off and probably will not be a full fledged freeway.

Sykotyk · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2009, 06:41:49 PM »

The I-285 loop can be brutal during rush hour. Especially, as I've said on another thread, in the southwest corner (by the airport) during rush hour.

A larger beltway is needed. Namely, one that does make it too far away. A lot of people, if given the option of 80 miles or 120 miles (regardless of traffic congestion) will take the 80 mile option.

That's the big problem with loops.

But, it's better to build the bigger loop before it's needed. Once you need it, the land is more expensive, the route becomes more confined, and the overall hassle of building it becomes worse.

Sykotyk

lamsalfl · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:12:10 PM »

Quote from: Sykotyk on February 10, 2009, 06:41:49 PM

The I-285 loop can be brutal during rush hour. Especially, as I've said on another thread, in the southwest corner (by the airport) during rush hour.

A larger beltway is needed. Namely, one that does make it too far away. A lot of people, if given the option of 80 miles or 120 miles (regardless of traffic congestion) will take the 80 mile option.

That's the big problem with loops.

But, it's better to build the bigger loop before it's needed. Once you need it, the land is more expensive, the route becomes more confined, and the overall hassle of building it becomes worse.

Sykotyk

No way. A new loop will just mean more sprawl. Then the new loop will just be filled. How about people just not live in ubiquitous suburbs in the first place, and live closer to Atlanta? If MARTA was expanded, things would be better. Tough tit for the people who choose to live far.

Chris · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2009, 05:18:25 AM »

But wouldn't sprawl continue anyway? They didn't really build new freeways in Los Angeles, but population still grows very fast. Suburbanization continues, so you can better do it in an organized way. Also, Atlanta seems to do quite a good job spreading out jobcenters so not everyone has to go to downtown anymore.

DAL764 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2009, 10:28:55 AM »

Quote from: Chris on February 11, 2009, 05:18:25 AM

But wouldn't sprawl continue anyway?

Most definitely. Urban sprawl continues regardless of how many, if any, interstates, train lines or bus lines run into the neighborhood. Urban sprawl is not limited to being caused by new roadways. Sure, they DO play a part, but I would venture the guess that 3/4 of all urban sprawl is traffic route-independent. And given the 'compentence' at MARTA, I'd say that a new 100-mile beltway of Atlanta has a better chance of happening than any newsworthy MARTA expansion.

Sykotyk · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2009, 11:49:33 AM »

Government does not tell people where to live.

At least I would hope not. And as for your comment, an outer beltway is more for thru traffic to avoid the metro area, rather than to help those exurbians drive their SUVs back and forth to work in a timely fashion.

Sykotyk

Alex · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2009, 06:30:26 PM »

New freeways add to the symptom of sprawl. Arterials are the new sprawl road of choice though, look at Albuquerque, no new freeways yet the sprawl continues further out in Rio Rancho. Expansion of existing freeways is the other way that forwards further sprawl, which is why the eight-laning of Interstate 85 so far south will be an issue to opening up current existing rural lands.

Bryant5493 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2009, 06:58:20 PM »

^^ Hopefully, when the freeway widening between Fairburn and Troup County is finished, the 70 mph speed limit will be restored.

Be well,

Bryant

djracer201 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2009, 03:37:07 PM »

Well, an 80 mile loop would put it on the southside of Atlanta, just near Macon. I believe the only way a loop will get built now is if its an toll road...

Bryant5493 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 27, 2009, 09:30:11 PM »

Alternative to Overhauling GDOT
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/Alternative_to_Overhauling_Georgia_DOT_032709

Be well,

Bryant

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Author Topic: Georgia (Read 485502 times)