Fictional Municipality/County Changes

[SD Mapman]

Back on topic kind of, I personally think cities shouldn't cross county lines. This, in SD, would necessitate the re-creation of "South Sioux Falls", which would immediately be the 4th-largest city in the state with a population of ~28,000.

Or Sioux Falls could be consolidated with Minnehaha County, creating city with many rural areas.

We don't really do that here in SD; the City wouldn't want to take on extra road liability and the farmers hate change (violently). Plus there's all the townships to consider as well.

[mgk920]

Back on topic kind of, I personally think cities shouldn't cross county lines. This, in SD, would necessitate the re-creation of "South Sioux Falls", which would immediately be the 4th-largest city in the state with a population of ~28,000.

Or Sioux Falls could be consolidated with Minnehaha County, creating city with many rural areas.

We don't really do that here in SD; the City wouldn't want to take on extra road liability and the farmers hate change (violently). Plus there's all the townships to consider as well.

South Dakota does not have townships, it's just cities and counties.  OTOH, t'd be all for having all of the county boards in Wisconsin taking over all of the townships within their respective borders, also having all of the incorporated former townships merged with their adjacent legacy cities and villages as part of a total statewide rethink of local government.

Mike

[US 89]

Could be worse; Laramie, WY is not in Laramie County, the Laramie River doesn't flow through Laramie County, and Fort Laramie isn't in Laramie County either!

And to add on to that - you've got Larimer County, Colorado in that same area

[kphoger]

That's a whole thread unto itself.

[SD Mapman]

Back on topic kind of, I personally think cities shouldn't cross county lines. This, in SD, would necessitate the re-creation of "South Sioux Falls", which would immediately be the 4th-largest city in the state with a population of ~28,000.

Or Sioux Falls could be consolidated with Minnehaha County, creating city with many rural areas.

We don't really do that here in SD; the City wouldn't want to take on extra road liability and the farmers hate change (violently). Plus there's all the townships to consider as well.

South Dakota does not have townships, it's just cities and counties.  OTOH, t'd be all for having all of the county boards in Wisconsin taking over all of the townships within their respective borders, also having all of the incorporated former townships merged with their adjacent legacy cities and villages as part of a total statewide rethink of local government.

Mike

Actually, East River we do! They have very limited authority (mainly road maintenance) but they do exist. See https://www.minnehahacounty.org/residents/townships/townships.php

I was surprised when I found that out as well, I'm just used to counties maintaining rural roads like it is out west.

[Poiponen13]

All other cities in Salt Lake County should be absorbed into Salt Lake City.

[Poiponen13]

And the merged city's name should be Jadesoutten, not Salt Lake city.

[mgk920]

And the merged city's name should be Jadesoutten, not Salt Lake city.

In that same light, if/when the Appleton, WI area (Neenah through Kaukauna, Sherwood through the Greenville area and westward out to the Winchester area, et al) is turned into a single muni. I would give it a neutral name as well (ie, 'City of Fox Valley, WI' - population about 250K).

Mike

[SD Mapman]

All other cities in Salt Lake County should be absorbed into Salt Lake City.

They're actually moving in the other direction (from what I can tell), e.g. Herriman separated from the Unified Police Department a few years ago.

[US 89]

All other cities in Salt Lake County should be absorbed into Salt Lake City.

They're actually moving in the other direction (from what I can tell), e.g. Herriman separated from the Unified Police Department a few years ago.

My sense is that may be more related to the police department itself. Unified Fire hasn’t seen nearly the same level of exodus, IIRC.

That said, Salt Lake City proper accounts for a little less than 17% of the county population, and each of the suburbs and other municipalities does tend to be rather protective of its independent identity. Some of them are old enough that they had their own historic identities before SLC grew much outward, like Magna or Midvale or Murray (which for years has made “we are our own thing” a core part of how it operates - they even have their own school district and are by far the smallest city in the state with that distinction). You’re never going to see a consolidation - over 80% of the county is probably happy they don’t live in SLC itself.

I won’t bother listing the multitude of reasons nothing in the area will ever be renamed to Jadesoutten, which I have no idea how to pronounce. Sorry Poiponen, not everyone shares your fascination with jade.

[Poiponen13]

All other cities in Salt Lake County should be absorbed into Salt Lake City.

They're actually moving in the other direction (from what I can tell), e.g. Herriman separated from the Unified Police Department a few years ago.

My sense is that may be more related to the police department itself. Unified Fire hasn't seen nearly the same level of exodus, IIRC.

That said, Salt Lake City proper accounts for a little less than 17% of the county population, and each of the suburbs and other municipalities does tend to be rather protective of its independent identity. Some of them are old enough that they had their own historic identities before SLC grew much outward, like Magna or Midvale or Murray (which for years has made "we are our own thing"  a core part of how it operates - they even have their own school district and are by far the smallest city in the state with that distinction). You're never going to see a consolidation - over 80% of the county is probably happy they don't live in SLC itself.

I won't bother listing the multitude of reasons nothing in the area will ever be renamed to Jadesoutten, which I have no idea how to pronounce. Sorry Poiponen, not everyone shares your fascination with jade.

The name would be pronounced something like JAYD-sow-tn. And  in similar vein, Miami should merge with all other cities in Miami-Dade County (but in this case the merged city would retain Miami name), Raleigh with all other cities in Wake County (to form a city named Mezenthorpe) and Phoenix with all other cities in Maricopa County (to form Arizona City).

[Scott5114]

Every municipality should merge with every county to form one large, international municipality called Ã.... There will be no need for your mayors, your court systems, your city ordinances. All will become one with Ã.... Ã... transcends boundaries. Life will be better in Ã.... Your children will grow up to be six inches taller and 25% stronger and better looking. Everyone will make 25% more money. Ã... is love, Ã... is life. Come live in Ã... with us–the only municipality.

[kphoger]

The name would be pronounced something like JAYD-sow-tn.

How do you know how the people there would pronounce it, considering you don't even know any of them?

[plain]

Merge the NYC counties into one.

[kphoger]

Merge the NYC counties into one.

Interesting to consider the opposite:  breaking an urban county into pieces.

Cook County, IL?

[NWI_Irish96]

Merge the NYC counties into one.

Interesting to consider the opposite:  breaking an urban county into pieces.

Cook County, IL?

I suggested that in the original post.

[kphoger]

Sorry.  I wasn't interested in the topic at the beginning, so I ignored the thread.  Then I became more curious, but I forgot to actually go back and read the OP.

[kphoger]

the mythical (but strangely elusive in actual reality) "Shawnee Mission, KS"

It's historical, actual, and open for visitors Wednesday through Saturday:  https://goo.gl/maps/DhCmrWw8RYJftsjz6

My mom (who grew up in Merriam) has good memories of visiting it as a child.

[Scott5114]

Yes, that's the actual mission...but good luck finding the supposed municipality "SHAWNEE MISSION KS 661XX" that the Post Office wants you to put on everything.

[SD Mapman]

Yes, that's the actual mission...but good luck finding the supposed municipality "SHAWNEE MISSION KS 662XX" that the Post Office wants you to put on everything.

FTFY

[kphoger]

Yes, that's the actual mission...but good luck finding the supposed municipality "SHAWNEE MISSION KS 661XX" that the Post Office wants you to put on everything.

The post office "wants you" to put that?  I just searched my mom's childhood home address in Merriam, on the USPS ZIP code lookup website, and here are the results:

  1.  If I search for the address with "Merriam" as the town, then the tool spits out "GOODMAN ST / MERRIAM KS 66202-2242".

  2,  If I search for the address with "Mission" as the town, then the tool spits out "GOODMAN ST / MISSION KS 66202-2242".

  3.  If I search for the address with "Roeland Park" as the town, then the tool spits out "GOODMAN ST / ROELAND PARK KS 66202-2242".

  4.  If I search for the address with "Shawnee Mission" as the town, then the tool spits out "GOODMAN ST / SHAWNEE MISSION KS 66202-2242".

  5.  If I leave the City field blank and just search by ZIP Code alone, then the tool spits out "GOODMAN ST / MISSION KS 66202-2242".

I did the same thing for my dad's childhood home in Mission, and I got the same pattern of results:  whether I enter the actual town name or "Shawnee Mission" or (presumably perhaps) some other town within the Shawnee Mission umbrella, it accepts it either way–but, if I leave that part up to the USPS tool, then it defaults to an actual town name, not the "mythical" Shawnee Mission.

[Scott5114]

Wikipedia says:

Shawnee Mission, Kansas /ʃɔːniˈmɪʃən/ [S: did that really need a pronunciation guide?] is a place-name created in the 1960s by the United States Postal Service to denote a large postal coverage area (ZIP Codes 662xx) at the northeastern tip of Johnson County, Kansas which contains numerous towns, and to structure management of the post offices located therein. Effectively, these towns' post offices are subsidiaries of the Shawnee Mission Main Post Office, located in Mission, Kansas. Properly, a mailing address may indicate the delivery "place" as either Shawnee Mission, or the actual town name, and be treated the same.

Of course, I see no citations there, so believe it as much as you want. Based on the article, and the vague recollections I have from when my aunt lived in Shawnee, I'm guessing that originally "SHAWNEE MISSION KS" was the primary and the actual city names were the secondary "acceptable" designations, and then at some point they switched the city names to primary and "SHAWNEE MISSION KS" to secondary. (Probably because nobody was actually putting Shawnee Mission.)

Either way, the point that I'm getting at is that there is no real town called "Shawnee Mission"; it's a fiction invented by the post office to make sorting 662XX zip codes easier.

[kphoger]

Either way, the point that I'm getting at is that there is no real town called "Shawnee Mission"; it's a fiction invented by the post office to make sorting 662XX zip codes easier.

The area was already called 'Shawnee Mission' by the 1960s, though.  Shawnee Mission East High School has been in operation under that name since 1958.  By the time the suburbs grew far enough out for Shawnee Mission Rural High School to be renamed in accordance with its no longer being in a rural area, the area was already known as Shawnee Mission.  My paternal grandparents bought their house one block northeast of Lamar & Johnson Drive back in 1953, when there wasn't even a street in front of it yet.  My dad was one year old at the time, and there's never been a period of time that he's not said he's from Shawnee Mission.

So it's wholly inaccurate to say that the USPS "created" the placename.  The area was already called that informally, and had been already for about a century–pretty much ever since the mission was relocated there in 1839.

Heck, the capital of Kansas Territory was briefly and controversially, from 1855 to 1856, officially located in a town called Shawnee Mission (formerly in Pawnee and subsequently in Lecompton).  I believe the "Shawnee" part of Shawnee Mission's town name wasn't dropped until 1940.

Remember that the suburbs didn't all just suddenly appear as a conglomerate.  Even though the name 'Shawnee Mission' technically only applied to what is now properly called Mission, the whole area was known by that name–just as rural areas near any other town are often colloquially referred to by that town's name.

[Bruce]

I've gone ahead and added some sources to the article. Indeed it was just a reused name that was given to the post office in 1960.

[kphoger]

If you're interested in the history of Shawnee Mission–and if you want to read about voter fraud, people refusing to acknowledge the results of an election, death threats against judges, armed men being led across state lines by a federal politician to interfere in an election, and the interplay between the issues of slavery and state sovereignty in the years leading up to the Civil War–I know, I know, not that anybody talks about any of that sort of stuff anymore, of course–then a good place to start would be to read up on the "Bogus Legislature".