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Author Topic: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering  (Read 7888 times)

dgolub

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Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« on: May 16, 2021, 10:30:17 AM »

I took a trip up north yesterday, and along the way I discovered that the new milepost exit numbers on the Hutchinson Parkway in the Bronx are now in place.  Westchester hasn't happened yet, but it looks like work is in progress there.  Southbound photos are available on my site at https://www.eastcoastroads.com/states/ny/parkways/hutch/photogal/south/bronx.  I'll try to grab the northbound side some time over the next few weeks.
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2021, 12:26:50 PM »

Finally! I was beginning to think the HRP was going to keep the sequential exit numbers permanently. Wikipedia has been updated to show the new exit numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutchinson_River_Parkway. I wonder what highway will get mileage-based exits next?
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2021, 01:03:18 PM »

Maybe I'm unique, but I don't like milepost numbering on roads like the parkways. Since everything's close together, distances don't matter quite as much, and it's better to have distinct numbers than 4A, 4B, and 4C for three different interchanges.
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2021, 07:15:27 PM »

Maybe I'm unique, but I don't like milepost numbering on roads like the parkways. Since everything's close together, distances don't matter quite as much, and it's better to have distinct numbers than 4A, 4B, and 4C for three different interchanges.
if you can't tell the difference between 4A and 4C please don't drive

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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2021, 07:46:00 PM »

Maybe I'm unique, but I don't like milepost numbering on roads like the parkways. Since everything's close together, distances don't matter quite as much, and it's better to have distinct numbers than 4A, 4B, and 4C for three different interchanges.
if you can't tell the difference between 4A and 4C please don't drive
I can tell the difference between 4A and 4C but usually letters are (or should be) used within the same interchange, and it's entirely understandable for that to cause confusion. Never mind that someone coming south might assume 4A is before 4C, and panic if they see 4C first, thinking they'd missed their exit - especially with the bad signage on Westchester parkways. The number should be the interchange number, a letter - if needed - should designate the direction within that interchange. Surely this is no more nonsensical an argument than, say, that Interstates ought to be in their proper grid.
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2021, 07:48:37 PM »

4C comes before 4A going south.
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dgolub

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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2021, 08:27:21 PM »

Finally! I was beginning to think the HRP was going to keep the sequential exit numbers permanently. Wikipedia has been updated to show the new exit numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutchinson_River_Parkway. I wonder what highway will get mileage-based exits next?

I'd nominate I-684.  It's got the longest exit spacing in Westchester.  That said, I haven't heard anything about it being imminent.
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2021, 08:38:34 PM »

4C comes before 4A going south.
Yes. But not everyone knows that, so it could cause confusion. I think the old adage is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2021, 08:48:17 PM »

How about the confusion that could happen if someone from the mile-based majority of the country sees ends up on a sequential road like this and thinks they have a lot further to go to get to their exit by the numbers than they actually do?  I'm not saying that a little fudging can't be done, but I think most of us here can agree that numbers that are off by 10 is too much.
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2021, 11:57:57 PM »

What difference does it make here.  In all suburban an urban areas you get the alphabet soup thing.  What about when I-278 gets its mile based numbers.  Considering the sequence is more numbers than miles, A, B, C, D.....G...etc will be implemented there for sure.

I would like to know if they keep the M prefix on the Meadowbrook Parkway on Long Island or are they going to use plain numbers when its the time to change.
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2021, 12:14:55 AM »

What difference does it make here.  In all suburban an urban areas you get the alphabet soup thing.  What about when I-278 gets its mile based numbers.  Considering the sequence is more numbers than miles, A, B, C, D.....G...etc will be implemented there for sure.

I would like to know if they keep the M prefix on the Meadowbrook Parkway on Long Island or are they going to use plain numbers when its the time to change.

I-278 wouldn’t be as bad as you would think.  Unless you give separate numbers to all the ramps at the Bruckner interchange, the deepest you’d go in suffices would be C.  I’d also be interested to see the suffices on the NJTP for the eastern and western spurs. 
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2021, 12:35:22 AM »

4C comes before 4A going south.
Yes. But not everyone knows that, so it could cause confusion. I think the old adage is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
You've barely even started driving. Give it a chance.

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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2021, 08:52:46 PM »

4C comes before 4A going south.
Yes. But not everyone knows that, so it could cause confusion.

Meh, this is how it works everywhere that alphabet soup exists. Besides, no one complains that exit 4 coming before exit 3 going south is confusing.

If we're going to complain about something causing confusion, let's point out how NYSDOT is numbering each direction independently and not following the best practice of one exit number = one destination.
For example, southbound, exit 8 will be for the Cross County Parkway. Northbound, exit 8 will be for Webster Ave. So you will not be able to talk about something being "off the Hutch at exit 8" without it being ambiguous as to which interchange that means.
Likewise, Purchase Street will be exit 16B northbound (because 16A is for 684), but only plain 16 southbound. So you will not be able to refer to this interchange by any specific exit number since which it is will depend on the direction.
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roadman65

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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2021, 02:49:08 AM »

Everyplace has its confusion with urban or suburban exits like that.  Plain number one way and a letter suffix the other, yet no big deal ever arises.  Look in NJ where you have Exit 143 NB on the Garden State Parkway for Springfield Avenue, yet SB it is Exit 143C for the same roadway.  Before the change of MUTCD exit numbers, it was easier cause 143 was for both as the Parkway did not due A & B simply.  They did whole number plus A (or B in the case of the three exits in Irvington). 

We have the issue in Florida too on I-4 where its one number one way and another the other way.  It can't be perfect.  Hey look at route concurrencies.  One route has to sacrifice numbers so the mileage and sequence gets distorted. 
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2021, 12:19:56 PM »

Finally! I was beginning to think the HRP was going to keep the sequential exit numbers permanently. Wikipedia has been updated to show the new exit numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutchinson_River_Parkway. I wonder what highway will get mileage-based exits next?

I'd nominate I-684.  It's got the longest exit spacing in Westchester.  That said, I haven't heard anything about it being imminent.

I’d say I-95 or I-287 (the standalone section) wouldn’t be too difficult either.  95 only needs one exit changed on the Cross Bronx (2 reverts to 1B northbound), which leaves only a few exits on the Westchester portion.  And 287 is only 11 miles.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 01:13:08 PM by jp the roadgeek »
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2021, 12:37:29 PM »

What difference does it make here.  In all suburban an urban areas you get the alphabet soup thing.  What about when I-278 gets its mile based numbers.  Considering the sequence is more numbers than miles, A, B, C, D.....G...etc will be implemented there for sure.

I would like to know if they keep the M prefix on the Meadowbrook Parkway on Long Island or are they going to use plain numbers when its the time to change.

I-278 wouldn’t be as bad as you would think.  Unless you give separate numbers to all the ramps at the Bruckner interchange, the deepest you’d go in suffices would be C.  I’d also be interested to see the suffices on the NJTP for the eastern and western spurs. 

Other than that I doubt the NJTA will ever move to mileage based exits unless basically forced at gunpoint (and since they're financed by toll revenue and not gas tax money, you can't threaten them with withholding funding to do it, which is what should happen with these recalcitrant northeastern states), I would figure that they would just keep the E and W designations. 15W becomes 108W, 15E becomes 106E, etc. Would also help be rid of 15X, which has always irked me.
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2021, 10:07:30 PM »

The 19 W gets me when you have no 17W to be counterpart to 17. Just make 17 number 17E.

I know the NJTA will say it's north of 18W so it should be 19, however look where Exit 17 is compared to 18E.

I know 17 is an oddball due to it originally being it's own ticketed interchange separate from 16E (formerly 16) and later kept when a coin drop was added to the 1964 relocation for Exit 17 when the original 17 closed.  To me I would  been fine with another 16E and skip 17 like NYSDOT skipped Exit 10 on I-84 in Newburgh.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 10:58:49 PM by roadman65 »
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2021, 10:21:44 PM »

Does New York plan to renumber all of its exits?
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2021, 11:24:19 PM »

The 19 W gets me when you have no 17W to be counterpart to 17. Just make 17 number 17E.

I know the NJTA will say it's north of 18W so it should be 19, however look where Exit 17 is compared to 18E.

I know 17 is an oddball due to it originally being it's own ticketed interchange separate from 16E (formerly 16) and later kept when a coin drop was added to the 1964 relocation for Exit 17 when the original 17 closed.  To me I would  been fine with another 16E and skip 17 like NYSDOT skipped Exit 10 on I-84 in Newburgh.
For internal record-keeping they would prefer to keep the number consistent and separate from the other interchanges. I agree that 17 should be 17E, and to me, 19W should have therefore been 17W (or 17 should become 19E if "it's north of 18E").

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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2021, 11:47:35 PM »

Does New York plan to renumber all of its exits?

"Eventually".

Of the 2-digit Interstates, I'm pretty certain I-81 is next on the list, especially with the rerouting in Syracuse.
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2021, 11:51:09 PM »

Does New York plan to renumber all of its exits?

"Eventually".

Of the 2-digit Interstates, I'm pretty certain I-81 is next on the list, especially with the rerouting in Syracuse.
Getting a bit off topic but I wonder how they will number the Thruway exits.
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2021, 06:04:19 PM »

Does New York plan to renumber all of its exits?

"Eventually".

Of the 2-digit Interstates, I'm pretty certain I-81 is next on the list, especially with the rerouting in Syracuse.
Getting a bit off topic but I wonder how they will number the Thruway exits.
No. Not in this thread.

dgolub

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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2021, 07:58:26 AM »

4C comes before 4A going south.
Yes. But not everyone knows that, so it could cause confusion.

Meh, this is how it works everywhere that alphabet soup exists. Besides, no one complains that exit 4 coming before exit 3 going south is confusing.

If we're going to complain about something causing confusion, let's point out how NYSDOT is numbering each direction independently and not following the best practice of one exit number = one destination.
For example, southbound, exit 8 will be for the Cross County Parkway. Northbound, exit 8 will be for Webster Ave. So you will not be able to talk about something being "off the Hutch at exit 8" without it being ambiguous as to which interchange that means.
Likewise, Purchase Street will be exit 16B northbound (because 16A is for 684), but only plain 16 southbound. So you will not be able to refer to this interchange by any specific exit number since which it is will depend on the direction.

Yeah, that piece was definitely a bad idea.  It still hasn't happened yet, though, since they've only done the Bronx so far.
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2021, 08:26:46 AM »

What difference does it make here.  In all suburban an urban areas you get the alphabet soup thing.  What about when I-278 gets its mile based numbers.  Considering the sequence is more numbers than miles, A, B, C, D.....G...etc will be implemented there for sure.

I would like to know if they keep the M prefix on the Meadowbrook Parkway on Long Island or are they going to use plain numbers when its the time to change.

I-278 wouldn’t be as bad as you would think.  Unless you give separate numbers to all the ramps at the Bruckner interchange, the deepest you’d go in suffices would be C.  I’d also be interested to see the suffices on the NJTP for the eastern and western spurs. 

Other than that I doubt the NJTA will ever move to mileage based exits unless basically forced at gunpoint (and since they're financed by toll revenue and not gas tax money, you can't threaten them with withholding funding to do it, which is what should happen with these recalcitrant northeastern states)...

Since the NJ Turnpike is an authority created by the state, if the Feds really wanted the Turnlike to go to milepost numbering, the feds could withhold federal dollars going to NJDOT to force their hand

Same goes to the Turnpike claiming both the East & West Spurs are I-95. The feds could require both to have a true, unique designation.
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Re: Hutchinson Parkway milepost exit renumbering
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2021, 07:28:28 PM »

I am still shocked when a mileage based exit thread comes up how many people respond to it.  All the time. Why is it so interesting?  IDK it just doesn't matter to me as much as other road related things.  But hey that's me.

However, I will go against myself and add this.....mileage based exits doesn't do a thing on short expressways.  Such as CT-2A in CT.  That short expressway has mileage based exits.  Why?  It doesn't help a thing?  I'd say just don't number the exit or leave it sequential.

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