Which cities would be good for sports teams?

[Takumi]

^^ Colorado Springs lost their AAA minor league team not too long ago.

With expansion rumored to happen sometime in the next decade, some former minor league cities could get teams again since those hypothetical two new teams would need a set of farm teams.

[Billy F 1988]

Even Kalispell??

It is a minor to mid-size city, so it would be good to have minor league team there.

They have an American Legion baseball team named the Lakers and a Pioneer League Baseball team named the Glacier Range Riders (our two minor league baseball teams in Missoula are the American Legion Mavericks and Pioneer League Paddleheads, formerly the Osprey). It has two reputable AA level high schools (Glacier and Flathead) that really give Missoula's three major AA high schools (Hellgate, Sentinel and Big Sky) a run for their money, mainly in AA prep football and softball. It does not have a minor league football program, though if one does come to fruit, they'd be a pretty good candidate to join one. Missoula has a junior Bruins hockey team, and many years ago, they had a previous junior hockey team named the Maulers.

[The Nature Boy]

Even Kalispell??

It is a minor to mid-size city, so it would be good to have minor league team there.

The urban areas for Kalispell, Whitefish, and Columbia Falls total about 50,600. Even combining those would place the region around 505th in population for urban areas.

The Cheyenne urban area is a little better at 79,250 and 358th place.

I get that they have some name recognition as a state capital and a popular resort area, but there are literally hundreds of areas that have a larger population and can better support a team.

Here's a sampling of large urban areas who do not have a "big five" sport (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS), minor league baseball, and aren't immediately adjacent to an area that does have one of those teams:

Tucson, AZ - 875,000
Honolulu, HI - 853,000
McAllen, TX - 779,000
Colorado Springs, CO - 632,000
Baton Rouge, LA - 631,000
Albany, NY - 593,000
Bakersfield, CA - 570,000
Madison, WI - 450,000
Springfield, MA - 442,000
Boise, ID - 433,000

Granted, I did not look for independent leagues, minor leagues for other sports, and college teams, which would take some of these off the list. But even looking at Single-A, there was maybe one team that would be under 100,000 in the market (Delmarva).

Albany is represented by the Tri-City Valley Cats, a Frontier League Class A team that plays in Troy. Springfield not having a minor league baseball team seems like a huge oversight, but I guess Hartford has the Yard Goats and they're only 25 miles away.

[DTComposer]

Even Kalispell??

It is a minor to mid-size city, so it would be good to have minor league team there.

The urban areas for Kalispell, Whitefish, and Columbia Falls total about 50,600. Even combining those would place the region around 505th in population for urban areas.

The Cheyenne urban area is a little better at 79,250 and 358th place.

I get that they have some name recognition as a state capital and a popular resort area, but there are literally hundreds of areas that have a larger population and can better support a team.

Here's a sampling of large urban areas who do not have a "big five" sport (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS), minor league baseball, and aren't immediately adjacent to an area that does have one of those teams:

Tucson, AZ - 875,000
Honolulu, HI - 853,000
McAllen, TX - 779,000
Colorado Springs, CO - 632,000
Baton Rouge, LA - 631,000
Albany, NY - 593,000
Bakersfield, CA - 570,000
Madison, WI - 450,000
Springfield, MA - 442,000
Boise, ID - 433,000

Granted, I did not look for independent leagues, minor leagues for other sports, and college teams, which would take some of these off the list. But even looking at Single-A, there was maybe one team that would be under 100,000 in the market (Delmarva).

Albany is represented by the Tri-City Valley Cats, a Frontier League Class A team that plays in Troy. Springfield not having a minor league baseball team seems like a huge oversight, but I guess Hartford has the Yard Goats and they're only 25 miles away.

Yeah, I didn't go through all the independent leagues, so I knew there'd be some cities that would have representation. As mentioned above, Kalispell does have an independent league team (as does Colorado Springs and Boise, and I'm sure others).

[KCRoadFan]

Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!

[Big John]

Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!

You had the Kings from 1972-85.

[fhmiii]

These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team.  They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league.  Some already have an MLS franchise.

Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million

I almost included Orlando but I keep forgetting they have an NBA franchise!  I'm not including Providence because it's just so close to Boston.  Foxborough, MA is just a little closer to Providence than it is to Boston!

In fact, southeast Virginia seems almost a no-brainer for something.  An NFL franchise with a stadium near Williamsburg could draw from both regions.  Due to the number of games, MLB, NBA, and NHL probably needs to be one or the other (with the focus probably being Norfolk/Virginia Beach).

These regions are probably just a little too small for a Big 4 franchise but might be able to support MLS or one of the other top-tier but minor professional leagues, such as box lacrosse.  Some of them have AAA hockey or baseball, or have (had?) a USFL/XFL franchise.  However, I would not consider them completely out of the running for a Big 4 if the right combination of ownership group and municipal support materialized.

Birmingham, AL - 1.18 million
Fresno, CA - 1.17 million
Grand Rapids, MI - 1.16 million
Tucson, AZ - 1.06 million
Tulsa, OK - 1.03 million
Omaha, NE - 977,000

There are other cities in this same population tier, but they're either not growing or are too close to other markets with major franchises, or both (e.g. Rochester, NY or Greenville/Spartanburg, SC).

And of course, I'd love to see an NHL franchise in Kansas City.  The SprintT-Mobile Center is a beautiful facility that doesn't get enough use.

[Poiponen13]

Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!

Would be better if actually based in Kansas side.

[Max Rockatansky]

Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!

Would be better if actually based in Kansas side.

Do they have gulags on the Kansas side?

[tmoore952]

Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!

You had the Kings from 1972-85.

NHL Kansas City Scouts also in mid '70s, but only for a couple years. That team later (1977?)  became the Colorado Rockies (NHL) also only for a couple years, and finally became the NJ Devils in 1982 (have been there ever since).

I keep seeing posts on other social media about (NHL commissioner) Bettman wanting to expand the NHL, but I don't pay much attention to them so I don't know what is being proposed.

[Flint1979]

Arizona and Buffalo are the two worst draw's in the NHL in recent years.

[Poiponen13]

Arizona and Buffalo are the two worst draw's in the NHL in recent years.

Arizona Coyotes should be relocated to Houston and Buffalo Sabres to Kansas City.

[Flint1979]

Arizona and Buffalo are the two worst draw's in the NHL in recent years.

Arizona Coyotes should be relocated to Houston and Buffalo Sabres to Kansas City.

I'm not debating on where they should relocate to but Houston certainly wouldn't be a good fit for hockey. Kansas City would be a decent location. The Sabres should move to Quebec City and the Coyotes should move to Kansas City.

[DTComposer]

These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team.  They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league.  Some already have an MLS franchise.

Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million

I think the population floor for a new Big 4 team is 2 million - Nashville seems to be a lock for the next round of MLB expansion and it just crosses that threshold. The other candidate cities for MLB are all well north of 2 million in their CSAs.

NBA seems to be a done deal for Las Vegas and Seattle somewhere around 2027 - again, both well over 2 million.

Austin/San Antonio should definitely be under consideration for any expansion.

Should the A's deal go through and the NBA rumors be true, Las Vegas would go from zero to four Big 4 teams in under a decade. The only city I can find with that quick a timeline is Atlanta from 1966 to 1972 (although the Flames would move in 1980 and the Thrashers wouldn't start until 1999).

[Poiponen13]

These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team.  They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league.  Some already have an MLS franchise.

Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million

I think the population floor for a new Big 4 team is 2 million - Nashville seems to be a lock for the next round of MLB expansion and it just crosses that threshold. The other candidate cities for MLB are all well north of 2 million in their CSAs.

NBA seems to be a done deal for Las Vegas and Seattle somewhere around 2027 - again, both well over 2 million.

Austin/San Antonio should definitely be under consideration for any expansion.

Should the A's deal go through and the NBA rumors be true, Las Vegas would go from zero to four Big 4 teams in under a decade. The only city I can find with that quick a timeline is Atlanta from 1966 to 1972 (although the Flames would move in 1980 and the Thrashers wouldn't start until 1999).

Atlanta should regain NHL team and San Antonio get NFL team. Oh, and Montreal and Vancouver should both get both NBA and MLB teams. Quebec City and Halifax are good locations for new NHL teams and Birmingham for new NFL team. Alaska would also be good to see in major leagues.

[WillWeaverRVA]

These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team.  They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league.  Some already have an MLS franchise.

Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million

I think the population floor for a new Big 4 team is 2 million - Nashville seems to be a lock for the next round of MLB expansion and it just crosses that threshold. The other candidate cities for MLB are all well north of 2 million in their CSAs.

NBA seems to be a done deal for Las Vegas and Seattle somewhere around 2027 - again, both well over 2 million.

Austin/San Antonio should definitely be under consideration for any expansion.

Should the A's deal go through and the NBA rumors be true, Las Vegas would go from zero to four Big 4 teams in under a decade. The only city I can find with that quick a timeline is Atlanta from 1966 to 1972 (although the Flames would move in 1980 and the Thrashers wouldn't start until 1999).

Atlanta should regain NHL team and San Antonio get NFL team. Oh, and Montreal and Vancouver should both get both NBA and MLB teams. Quebec City and Halifax are good locations for new NHL teams and Birmingham for new NFL team. Alaska would also be good to see in major leagues.

As interesting as it would be to see Anchorage (the only metro area in Alaska really worth considering) get some major league sports franchise, it probably would not work from a logistical standpoint. It'd also have the second smallest population of a city with, say, an NFL franchise - only Green Bay is smaller, and the Packers are in the unique situation of being publicly owned so they are not likely ever to leave Green Bay, plus the Packers being an international brand more than makes up for their tiny market. A new franchise in Alaska would not have that advantage.

[thspfc]

Green Bay is not a small market team. Their market is Wisconsin, pop. 5.9 million. They have unwavering support throughout the state and aren't really competing with any other team (unlike, for example, the Steelers, who have to compete with the Eagles). It's just a unique situation in that the team is not based in the state's largest city.

Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Tampa, New Orleans, and Cincinnati, despite being larger cities, are smaller markets than the Packers market. Denver, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Minnesota are roughly the same. Still others are difficult to evaluate, such as Cleveland (dispersion of Browns vs. Bengals fans throughout Ohio), Kansas City (dispersion of fans throughout eastern Missouri since the Rams left), and Vegas (how many Bay Area, and even LA, fans still support the Raiders).

[DTComposer]

Birmingham for new NFL team.

It would be among the smallest markets in the NFL in a state dominated by college football, and there are too many much larger markets that would be ahead of it line (Austin, San Antonio, San Diego, St. Louis, Portland, Salt Lake City, Sacramento, etc.), not to mention the likelihood of international expansion.

[Poiponen13]

These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team.  They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league.  Some already have an MLS franchise.

Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million

I think the population floor for a new Big 4 team is 2 million - Nashville seems to be a lock for the next round of MLB expansion and it just crosses that threshold. The other candidate cities for MLB are all well north of 2 million in their CSAs.

NBA seems to be a done deal for Las Vegas and Seattle somewhere around 2027 - again, both well over 2 million.

Austin/San Antonio should definitely be under consideration for any expansion.

Should the A's deal go through and the NBA rumors be true, Las Vegas would go from zero to four Big 4 teams in under a decade. The only city I can find with that quick a timeline is Atlanta from 1966 to 1972 (although the Flames would move in 1980 and the Thrashers wouldn't start until 1999).

Atlanta should regain NHL team and San Antonio get NFL team. Oh, and Montreal and Vancouver should both get both NBA and MLB teams. Quebec City and Halifax are good locations for new NHL teams and Birmingham for new NFL team. Alaska would also be good to see in major leagues.

As interesting as it would be to see Anchorage (the only metro area in Alaska really worth considering) get some major league sports franchise, it probably would not work from a logistical standpoint. It'd also have the second smallest population of a city with, say, an NFL franchise - only Green Bay is smaller, and the Packers are in the unique situation of being publicly owned so they are not likely ever to leave Green Bay, plus the Packers being an international brand more than makes up for their tiny market. A new franchise in Alaska would not have that advantage.

Maybe Alaska would have a good soccer league in same tier as USL Championship. And a professional baseball league.

[jeffandnicole]

Green Bay is not a small market team. Their market is Wisconsin, pop. 5.9 million. They have unwavering support throughout the state and aren't really competing with any other team (unlike, for example, the Steelers, who have to compete with the Eagles). It's just a unique situation in that the team is not based in the state's largest city.

Nearly the entire Internet disagrees with you, including the NFL's own website.  https://operations.nfl.com/learn-the-game/nfl-basics/team-histories/national-football-conference/north/green-bay-packers/

Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Tampa, New Orleans, and Cincinnati, despite being larger cities, are smaller markets than the Packers market. Denver, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Minnesota are roughly the same. Still others are difficult to evaluate, such as Cleveland (dispersion of Browns vs. Bengals fans throughout Ohio), Kansas City (dispersion of fans throughout eastern Missouri since the Rams left), and Vegas (how many Bay Area, and even LA, fans still support the Raiders).

Several cities you listed here are in direct conflict with your assertion of Green Bay.  Buffalo is a small market team, but when combined with other NW NY areas and the Toronto market, they have a sizeable draw. 

On the other hand, and to your point, the New Orleans Saints, while in a reasonably sizable city, have nearly no market outside of their base city unlike most other markets.

[fhmiii]

Kansas City - where I live - needs an NBA and/or NHL team! We already have an arena downtown. I want to go to some games there!

Would be better if actually based in Kansas side.

I've tried to be respectful of your comments, no matter how off-the-wall they seemed, but this is just downright dirty-rotten meanness on your part.

[fhmiii]

These Metropolitan Statistical Areas do not currently (to my knowledge, at least) have a a Big 4 (NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA) franchise, and would likely be able to sustain at least one Big 4 team.  They almost certainly can support an MLS team, based on the current relatively low cost of entry and operations in that league.  Some already have an MLS franchise.

Austin, TX - 2.4 million
Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA - 1.8 million
Louisville, KY - 1.35 million
Richmond, VA - 1.3 million

I think the population floor for a new Big 4 team is 2 million - Nashville seems to be a lock for the next round of MLB expansion and it just crosses that threshold. The other candidate cities for MLB are all well north of 2 million in their CSAs.

NBA seems to be a done deal for Las Vegas and Seattle somewhere around 2027 - again, both well over 2 million.

Austin/San Antonio should definitely be under consideration for any expansion.

Should the A's deal go through and the NBA rumors be true, Las Vegas would go from zero to four Big 4 teams in under a decade. The only city I can find with that quick a timeline is Atlanta from 1966 to 1972 (although the Flames would move in 1980 and the Thrashers wouldn't start until 1999).

I don't doubt it'd be a long-shot (at best) for most of those areas, save Austin which is booming.  Norfolk/Va Beach would have the best shot with a NFL franchise located near Williamsburg, as I mentioned, to give it a sufficient draw from Richmond/Petersburg.  I doubt it could support MLB, and it would have difficulty supporting NHL/NBA, but I think the right ownership group could do it.

The second group I listed was more of a, "Other small markets like this exist with legacy teams (like Buffalo), so the right ownership could make it happen--but don't bet on it."

[Bruce]

Maybe Alaska would have a good soccer league in same tier as USL Championship. And a professional baseball league.

Alaska's league would be a USASA one, so a few tiers below. The state is part of the MLS homegrown territory for the Sounders since the nearest American academies are in the Seattle area. In fact, some of the better youth teams in Alaska do have to travel to WA just to play fellow high-level teams.

[Max Rockatansky]

Green Bay is not a small market team. Their market is Wisconsin, pop. 5.9 million. They have unwavering support throughout the state and aren't really competing with any other team (unlike, for example, the Steelers, who have to compete with the Eagles). It's just a unique situation in that the team is not based in the state's largest city.

Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Tampa, New Orleans, and Cincinnati, despite being larger cities, are smaller markets than the Packers market. Denver, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Minnesota are roughly the same. Still others are difficult to evaluate, such as Cleveland (dispersion of Browns vs. Bengals fans throughout Ohio), Kansas City (dispersion of fans throughout eastern Missouri since the Rams left), and Vegas (how many Bay Area, and even LA, fans still support the Raiders).

Plus it wasn't uncommon for the Packers historically play a couple games in Milwaukee.  I always viewed the Packers as decidedly representative of the Milwaukee market in the NFL.

[thspfc]

Green Bay is not a small market team. Their market is Wisconsin, pop. 5.9 million. They have unwavering support throughout the state and aren't really competing with any other team (unlike, for example, the Steelers, who have to compete with the Eagles). It's just a unique situation in that the team is not based in the state's largest city.

Nearly the entire Internet disagrees with you, including the NFL's own website.  https://operations.nfl.com/learn-the-game/nfl-basics/team-histories/national-football-conference/north/green-bay-packers/

Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Tampa, New Orleans, and Cincinnati, despite being larger cities, are smaller markets than the Packers market. Denver, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Tennessee, and Minnesota are roughly the same. Still others are difficult to evaluate, such as Cleveland (dispersion of Browns vs. Bengals fans throughout Ohio), Kansas City (dispersion of fans throughout eastern Missouri since the Rams left), and Vegas (how many Bay Area, and even LA, fans still support the Raiders).

Several cities you listed here are in direct conflict with your assertion of Green Bay.  Buffalo is a small market team, but when combined with other NW NY areas and the Toronto market, they have a sizeable draw. 

On the other hand, and to your point, the New Orleans Saints, while in a reasonably sizable city, have nearly no market outside of their base city unlike most other markets.

I guess nearly the entire internet is wrong then. Wisconsin is all Packers fans everywhere, the league knows that, the networks know that, anyone who lives/has lived there knows that.

Those cities are not in direct conflict with my assertion of Green Bay (except I will give you Buffalo). Those other teams are boxed closer in by other NFL cities and do not have a whole state with the population of Wisconsin, including large metro area (i.e. Milwaukee) all to themselves. Basically what I'm saying is that the Packers market of Wisconsin is larger than, for example, the Bengals market of southwest Ohio and northern Kentucky.